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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#5551 Team Result

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 15:17

Except that I have never seen an Aussie sold one. The 'custom' was sold in the US and Japan but with no back seat. The cars sold in Australia that I have owned have been 4 seat cars, that my 6,1 frame could not sit in the back of. Series 1 had steel wheels and A/C was an option but S2 all had a/c and alloy wheels. And ofcourse in Oz they all had 12A engines.
The Porkers in the 60s would have had only marginal more rear seat room.
As David says somewhat suss meaurements. I would sooner fit my head in the back of an 850 mini than a RX7 or Porsche. Cortinas never ran AppJ but were a 4 seat car undoubtedly. As were Impalas and Galaxies which were true 6 seat cars


Trust me Lee, there were two Series 1 models sold in Australia. The DeLuxe with alloy wheels, air-con, etc and in much smaller numbers, the Custom with steel wheels and the different seats, notably in the rear.
Our first RX7 run at 1979 Bathurst for myself and Terry Shiel was built from a brand new Custom. It was the second RX7 race car in the country after the Precinct Performance car from Newcastle that Dean Gall co-drove (can't remember the owner's name), which debuted at '79 Sandown, IIRC.

Anyway, when I (179cm) sat in the rear of ours my head was not touching the roof lining, however if I bounced a little I 'bottomed out' so to speak as there was little padding in the squab, which was also very bucket-shaped. I recall we even measured the height to confirm that it was indeed technically a touring car, even if not a practical 4-seater unless the rear occupants weighed less than 30kgs. Of course, that fact didn't prevent us copping a lot of flack at Bathurst that year for racing a 'sports' car!

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#5552 GMACKIE

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 21:31

Which it was!!!!!!!

#5553 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 23:11

Which they still are. An RX7, Porsche and Z car are all Sports Cars. And the one with the most headroom, just, never raced as a Tourer. The Z car. And the 2+2 versions were not too bad for room.Though I have sat in the back of a shorty, just!

#5554 Paul Newby

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:09

Which they still are. An RX7, Porsche and Z car are all Sports Cars. And the one with the most headroom, just, never raced as a Tourer. The Z car. And the 2+2 versions were not too bad for room.Though I have sat in the back of a shorty, just!


Lee, I think you fill find that a Datsun 260Z 2+2 did race in Group C, certainly at Bathurst. Not sure which year - 1975 or 1976. Sorry, I don't have my reference material with me.

The original Alfa Romeo GTV, the 105 series in 1600, 1750 and 2000 form had a distinguished touring car history in Australia. This sports car had nominal rear seating. If you pushed the front seat back on its runners it would touch the rear seat squab, which was very contoured. The factory rear headlining was "scalloped' in the back, which must have given the requisite head room for touring car regulations. As for the later Alfetta GTV, it didn't need these tricks as you could actually sit in the back in some comfort. The fact it was at least 60Kg heavier than the 105 series GTV didn't help its performance much though... :)



#5555 Team Result

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:34

Well, the 1960's 911T might have been the first 'sports' car to slip in to the touring car ranks, with the RX7 following a decade later, but there have been plenty more examples in recent times. How do you feel about the Mistubishi Starion, Toyota Supra, Maserati BiTurbo, even Toyota Celica (hairdresser's sports car in Oz)? Are they pukka touring cars?

So, should CAMS have stuck to their guns with the 'four-door' rule? (which wouldn't have outlawed the Maser or Ferrari Panamerica? but would have precluded later coupes/hatches like Sierra Cossies, etc)

Once upon a time sports cars were truly sporty and touring cars were mild-mannered family sedans and hence they raced in different categories. But the on-track performance distinction started to blurr when the manufacturers started building Bathurst specials followed by the 'big 3' introducing v8 engines (then turbo 6's) into their family sedan ranges.

I think the 1980's rejuevenated Series Production class had the right idea where, provided reasonable quantities of a model were sold in Australia, anything (with a roof) could run. We had Nissan 280ZX, Mazda Rx7 battling with Cortina, Commodore & Falcon at the head of the field.







#5556 seldo

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 02:45

Lee, I think you fill find that a Datsun 260Z 2+2 did race in Group C, certainly at Bathurst. Not sure which year - 1975 or 1976. Sorry, I don't have my reference material with me.

The original Alfa Romeo GTV, the 105 series in 1600, 1750 and 2000 form had a distinguished touring car history in Australia. This sports car had nominal rear seating. If you pushed the front seat back on its runners it would touch the rear seat squab, which was very contoured. The factory rear headlining was "scalloped' in the back, which must have given the requisite head room for touring car regulations. As for the later Alfetta GTV, it didn't need these tricks as you could actually sit in the back in some comfort. The fact it was at least 60Kg heavier than the 105 series GTV didn't help its performance much though... :)

John Giddings and I ran a couple of 280 Zs fairly successfully in Group E Touring Cars for a couple of years in the early '80s, amongst RX7s, GTVs, Cortinas, etc.

#5557 Wirra

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:16

John Giddings and I ran a couple of 280 Zs fairly successfully in Group E Touring Cars for a couple of years in the early '80s, amongst RX7s, GTVs, Cortinas, etc.

seldo - Were they the rare 280Zs not sold here or the 280ZXs sold here?

Another snap from the S Fryer collection. Any identification?
Posted Image

Edited by Wirra, 04 July 2011 - 10:24.


#5558 gouldo

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:27

Trust me Lee, there were two Series 1 models sold in Australia. The DeLuxe with alloy wheels, air-con, etc and in much smaller numbers, the Custom with steel wheels and the different seats, notably in the rear.
Our first RX7 run at 1979 Bathurst for myself and Terry Shiel was built from a brand new Custom. It was the second RX7 race car in the country after the Precinct Performance car from Newcastle that Dean Gall co-drove (can't remember the owner's name), which debuted at '79 Sandown, IIRC.

Anyway, when I (179cm) sat in the rear of ours my head was not touching the roof lining, however if I bounced a little I 'bottomed out' so to speak as there was little padding in the squab, which was also very bucket-shaped. I recall we even measured the height to confirm that it was indeed technically a touring car, even if not a practical 4-seater unless the rear occupants weighed less than 30kgs. Of course, that fact didn't prevent us copping a lot of flack at Bathurst that year for racing a 'sports' car!



Twas Allan Bryant who co-drove with Dean Gall.

#5559 brucemoxon

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:31

seldo - Were they the rare 280Zs not sold here or the 280ZXs sold here?

Another snap from the S Fryer collection. Any identification?
Posted Image



Arthur Jackson, Rally of the Hills, Catalina Park Special Stage?

Seriously, none. Good shot though of the legendary Datsun P510 1600. Great motor car.

ZXs by the way. Usually just called a 280Z or twenty-eight ounce. You can buy them for next to nothing now.



Bruce Moxon

Edited by brucemoxon, 04 July 2011 - 11:32.


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#5560 Catalina Park

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:37

It is not Catalina, it didn't have any armco on the outside.

#5561 seldo

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 13:59

seldo - Were they the rare 280Zs not sold here or the 280ZXs sold here?

Another snap from the S Fryer collection. Any identification?
Posted Image

I think that shot looks like Reid Park at Bathurst?

We raced under the banner of the NSW Nissan Dealer team - Giddings had a 280ZX hard-top and I had a 280ZX Targa-top, and I'm pretty sure there was a 3rd car for a while - maybe Cam Worner? I can't believe I can't remember this stuff any more.... But they were all fat, heavy, long-wheelbase cars, and we had Leo Geoghegan over-seeing the operation and advising on set-up. The cars were fast and pretty good, but generally couldn't regularly match the light-weight of Stephen Brooks' Perrier RX7 and Peter Fitzgerald's similar car.
When I got my car it had been campaigned by a well-known journo-punter, and after I took out all the cheater bits (springs, injectors, etc) it began to be competitive again....
We read the rules well and used them to max advantage and made the cars pretty quick - but it's hard to chase a 250kg weight penalty... The RX7s were hard to match on any day.

Edited by seldo, 04 July 2011 - 14:01.


#5562 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 15:02

I don't believe nobody realises that's the Esses at the Farm just before the Shell bridge!

Peter McKay raced that ZX for a year or so, didn't he David?

And no, the 280Z was never sold here, only the ZX...

#5563 brucemoxon

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 20:27



Don Smith?




Bruce Moxon

#5564 ellrosso

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 21:24

Yes, I remember seeing Peter in the ZX at Calder. He did quite well with it.

#5565 Wirra

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 22:45

Arthur Jackson, Rally of the Hills, Catalina Park Special Stage?...Bruce Moxon


Are you referring to the famous Arthur 'Two Sheds' Jackson?

Edited by Wirra, 04 July 2011 - 22:54.


#5566 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 23:17

Originally posted by brucemoxon
Don Smith?


From memory, I would say Don's car was off-white and he possibly ran a beige one as well...

This is where we need Stephen's collection of programmes.

#5567 wagons46

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 00:22

From memory, I would say Don's car was off-white and he possibly ran a beige one as well.


......and always ran with black and white number plates "WH???" being the plates of the owner WH Motors of Liverpool.

Doesn't look like Smithy either, I mean the driver, not the attitude of the car.



#5568 seldo

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 01:21

I don't believe nobody realises that's the Esses at the Farm just before the Shell bridge!

Peter McKay raced that ZX for a year or so, didn't he David?

And no, the 280Z was never sold here, only the ZX...

Never would have picked it as The Farm, Ray. But then again, I never got as up-close and personal with the other side of the armco as some... :) Flaggies enjoyed all the best spots.
Having said that the car had cheater bits, let's just say I can't remember the name of the journo....


#5569 ellrosso

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 03:23

Couldn't be Peter then, he's only a couple of steps behind Mary Mackillop surely......

#5570 Ellis French

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 04:33

Posted for Greg Mackie...
He will add a description.

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#5571 GMACKIE

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 05:04

Posted for Greg Mackie...
He will add a description.

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See 'Wakefield Park NSW 1994'


#5572 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 08:02

Originally posted by ellrosso
Couldn't be Peter then, he's only a couple of steps behind Mary Mackillop surely.


I wouldn't say that...

But he has had some health issues lately. I gather he's recovering slowly.

#5573 cooper997

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 08:16

If the Datsun 1600 photo was taken at the same meeting as Amon's Lotus, then it's the February 14th 1971 Warwick Farm Tasman round. For which, I don't have a programme.

From those that I do have, Ray's correct in that Don Smith ran a beige, then white 1600 under the WH Motors banner. As did Bruce Stewart (a white one too).

Stephen


#5574 brucemoxon

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 08:17

Are you referring to the famous Arthur 'Two Sheds' Jackson?


Yep. Or, at least, I think so. I seem to remember that epithet.

Very good driver. Better car preparer. Good bloke.




BM

#5575 ellrosso

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:13

Tongue in cheek Ray. I'm sorry to hear Peter has not been well. I've always been an avid reader of his various columns.

#5576 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:17

I don't believe nobody realises that's the Esses at the Farm just before the Shell bridge!

Peter McKay raced that ZX for a year or so, didn't he David?

And no, the 280Z was never sold here, only the ZX...

280Z may have been on the pace though, shorter and lighter.
That Gp E racing was excellent, less dollars, less egos and less cheating made for some decent racing for a few years. To a degree was killed by too many Japanese turbo cars winning all the time. Supras, Starions, Cordias and in the end RX7 SPs which probably should never have been allowed.

#5577 275 GTB-4

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:26

seldo - Were they the rare 280Zs not sold here or the 280ZXs sold here?

Another snap from the S Fryer collection. Any identification?
Posted Image


Ohhh myyyy....as a former owner of a dram buie 1600 (1972) I am in awe....sooo... so much committment in this shot....they were quick little cars, handled well, so to get this crossed up is being truly on the limit :clap:

#5578 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:40

Originally posted by seldo
Never would have picked it as The Farm, Ray. But then again, I never got as up-close and personal with the other side of the armco as some... :) Flaggies enjoyed all the best spots.....


No flaggies there, David...

I'd say it was taken from either on the stairs of the bridge or up a tree. I was there once back in '65 when that first opened, but never since.

The real pointer is the Armco fencing. It's pretty rare to see 3-row Armco anywhere in Australia, but that section had it in front of the spectator embankment. But you can't see the embankment because it starts just out of shot to the right.

#5579 ellrosso

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:35

Some typical Group E action from Calder in 1984 - it was torrid!
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#5580 ellrosso

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:53

Just found this one of Neil Hammond's from Calder 1982.

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#5581 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:04

It wasnt always that hectic,, or was it?

#5582 lyntonh

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 12:03

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Bob Muir 6th December 1969

Edited by lyntonh, 12 February 2012 - 11:37.


#5583 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 12:26

Who was it was after a photo of that car in that configuration?

Someone who owns it now, I guess...

#5584 ellrosso

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 13:00

Seldo, I know the shot from Surfers in 1967 will look familiar. How about the 1967 Amaroo shot? Do you know who is in the Volvo and also who is driving the Cooper S? Excuse the poor quality - really knocked about negs unfortunately.

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#5585 seldo

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 13:34

Just found this one of Neil Hammond's from Calder 1982.

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Hehe...I suspect that's moi in the Volvo and Peter McKay in the Z...

Was it always that hectic - or was it..?

And yes - it was generally at least that busy... It was almost imperative to have a panel shop as one of your sponsors...

Edited by seldo, 05 July 2011 - 13:36.


#5586 seldo

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 13:46

Seldo, I know the shot from Surfers in 1967 will look familiar. How about the 1967 Amaroo shot? Do you know who is in the Volvo and also who is driving the Cooper S? Excuse the poor quality - really knocked about negs unfortunately.

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Yes - Surfers Paradise 12 Hr 1967 - we were doing very nicely - I think 3rd in Sports Racing <2000cc and I broke an axle and lost a back wheel at about 200kph under the Dunlop Bridge at the end of the straight and did 5 barrel rolls and 3 end-for-ends before finally stopping. I emerged unhurt apart from minor cuts (still have the scars) and a perfect full-harness set of bruises, despite no roll-bar protection of any kind, other than Volvo's legendary primary safety features. Pretty impressive actually.
I still recall crapping myself as it went over and over as the entrant of the car had insisted that they fill the windscreen-washer bottle with fuel in case we ran out of gas out on the track.....:eek:

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Again - that's moi, and I'm pretty sure it's Digby Cooke in the Mini 1098S. I think we both set respective class lap records that day.

Edited by seldo, 05 July 2011 - 13:49.


#5587 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 21:50

Originally posted by seldo
.....the entrant of the car had insisted that they fill the windscreen-washer bottle with fuel in case we ran out of gas out on the track.....


That one belongs in the Cheats thread!

Mind you, unless you had something rigged to put the bottle down near the fuel pump with a hose into it, this might not have worked. The capacity of a windscreen washer bottle might not be enough to get to the pickup if the car's parked on a lean like off the side of the track.

#5588 ellrosso

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 22:41

Happier memories for this shot Seldo, this is from 1967 12 hr where you actually finished 7th outright and beat home the Kearns Volvo. The 1968 6 hr was the big accident - have a pic of the wreck in the RCN report of the race. As you describe an incredibly strong car back in the day - I can well imagine you had a few thoughts about your mortality during that one.......... huge shunt.

#5589 seldo

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 03:11

Happier memories for this shot Seldo, this is from 1967 12 hr where you actually finished 7th outright and beat home the Kearns Volvo. The 1968 6 hr was the big accident - have a pic of the wreck in the RCN report of the race. As you describe an incredibly strong car back in the day - I can well imagine you had a few thoughts about your mortality during that one.......... huge shunt.

Oh - okay - Then Digby Cooke totalled my new car (Volvo 142) in the '69 race after blowing a tyre.
In case you were wondering about the different colours of the cars at Amaroo and Surfers - they weren't the same car. My car was the light coloured (beige) one and the Surfers' car was owned by a guy called Bill Cooke (?). We borrowed it and we fitted the head cam exhaust and wheels from my car to compete because my beige car was in hospital having suffered a major at Amaroo in private practise just before the event after snapping another axle...
The mortality question is actually very interesting. That incident was absolutely life-changing for me and, as you suggest was about as big as they get.
I still recall as the car went over and over, at each lurch/crash/bang thinking quite dispassionately - "Oh well - a pity - too young - this it - all over - next bang the lights will go out and that'll be it for me - dead...".
Then - when it all stopped, I sat there for a moment as the reality sank in, then literally consciously moved my right arm - Yep - check. Left arm - Yep - check. Right leg etc, and then when I found all present and accounted for, I opened the door (unbelieveably, it still opened), climbed out and ran to the armco where I then discovered I was winded and couldn't breathe...
As a result, having looked death in the eye I no longer have any fear of it. Just to clarify though - I'm not saying I don't scare any more - certainly not true, but I'm definitely not scared of dying. It's actually quite interesting.

Edited by seldo, 06 July 2011 - 03:13.


#5590 David McKinney

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 05:44

Fascinating story, Seldo :up:

Pleased you're still here to share it

#5591 seldo

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:26

Fascinating story, Seldo :up:

Pleased you're still here to share it

Thanks David. But not as pleased as I am...;)

#5592 launchpad

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 13:55

Amon in the Lotus
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Hi Wirra,
Recently scanning some pics. I have one of Chris Amon too
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This was in the Esses

#5593 Wirra

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 14:11

Arrr.... but do you have one of Dave Walker?

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I can't quite figure this one out. I would sneak into the paddock on the Friday and take a few colour shots but spend the rest of the weekend with the crowd outside the fence. I thought Dave Walker only drove the Lotus on the Friday and Amon flew in to drive on the Saturday and Sunday. I must say the crowd at Creek looks very thin for a Saturday but IIRC they only pulled 20,000 on the Sunday. Any ideas?

Edited by Wirra, 06 July 2011 - 14:12.


#5594 seldo

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 14:33

Loving this! Sensational shots...and then..."But I'll raise you - Creek for the Esses...rain for the dry....."
Keep 'em coming - some fantastic shots. Thanks so much!

Edited by seldo, 06 July 2011 - 14:34.


#5595 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 15:00

Walker drove the Lotus 70 at one meeting, Amon at another...

I recall getting David a bit upset when I suggested that the 'rev limiter' for the car was the chassis design. "Blow it up and it will cut the car in half," I said to him, or something similar. He was referring to Chapman as 'The Old Man' in his conversation at the time.

#5596 Wirra

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 22:22

Walker drove the Lotus 70 at one meeting, Amon at another...

It appears that Dave Walker drove it to 5th at the AGP in Nov 1970 and again on Friday of the Tasman round in Feb 1971. That being the case, I'm expecting either Rod or Lynton to 'see me and raise me one'.

Edited by Wirra, 06 July 2011 - 22:23.


#5597 lyntonh

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 23:39

It appears that Dave Walker drove it to 5th at the AGP in Nov 1970 and again on Friday of the Tasman round in Feb 1971. That being the case, I'm expecting either Rod or Lynton to 'see me and raise me one'.



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AGP 1970

Edited by lyntonh, 12 February 2012 - 11:34.


#5598 launchpad

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:19

[quote name='Wirra' date='Jul 7 2011, 00:11' post='5148257']
Arrr.... but do you have one of Dave Walker?


I have one too! Sorry about the quality, and I shot nearly always in b&w.
This was on race day but now you have me wondering which meeting myself..
I really didn't want to get into this game - because I haven't scanned my 1971 onwards pics yet - but to keep in the game
What about Neil Allen?
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#5599 launchpad

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:23

I have one too! Sorry about the quality, and I shot nearly always in b&w.
This was on race day but now you have me wondering which meeting myself..
I really didn't want to get into this game - because I haven't scanned my 1971 onwards pics yet - but to keep in the game

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#5600 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:53

Niel Allen coming out of Creek, heading into the left-hander...

David Walker coming out of that left-hander and heading to the right-hander in all the other shots.