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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#6551 eldougo

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:44

Goss Gossip strikes again hey Kevin..... :wave:

Edited by eldougo, 14 February 2012 - 05:44.


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#6552 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:48

A word on the logistics of running a F5000:

I went back to them and told them it would cost twice what it did to run the F2 car, where with the Birrana you’d get by with one engine, one gearbox and one mechanic, with the F5000s you’d need two of everything. It would have doubled your F2 budget.


I don't think that's an unreasonable statement, is it Kevin?

#6553 E1pix

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:01

Congratulations on your new book, Ray, and to all contributors!

It sounds fabulous, please send me the info to buy one. :up:

Edited by E1pix, 14 February 2012 - 10:24.


#6554 kevinbartlett

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:36

A word on the logistics of running a F5000:



I don't think that's an unreasonable statement, is it Kevin?


That would be a statement one would use so that you could keep your head above water or the bailiff from the door or even make some coin. No matter which category you choose, to stay at the pointy end costs will prevail. There is no such thing as cheap racing on the professional side. Sure a four is 4 less cylinders but the cost of specialized bits from the (state of the art) suppliers on engines that are stressed from the start isn't much different. Gearboxes or rather crown wheel and pinions on the F5000's were always the bugbear once you got the chassis grip you wanted. I had at times in the US gone down to the local parts store and bought cheaply with quality parts. And even now (today) in Australia V8 bits are relatively cheap. We recently reco'ed a Honda 4 and the parts bill was 6k Fark!

#6555 ellrosso

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:08

Yes KB it is interesting to read all the articles from SCW, RCN and Autosportsman circa 1969 re the costs of the new F5000 formula compared to what we had etc. The wise heads at the time all warned it was never going to be cheap - never is when you are at the pointy end.

#6556 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:24

I don't think RCN ever suggested it would be in any way cheap...

Remember, Max was on a bent to have the 2-litre free design formula come in. He was convinced it was the way to go, so he gave no quarter in his promotion of the idea that F5000 would be inexpensive.

As for the cost of V8 parts today, I think there's so much out there that can be bought in or bought locally that they're really not all that expensive at all. I saw a pair of alloy heads advertised the other day for under $600.

#6557 stephenS800

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:22

The Prinz had a 600cc motor, but that one was 1493cc......VW maybe?

Hi Ed, would you mind posting a higher res image of the photo with the S800, batch 8? The edge of the photo says June 1970 and I guess that is the date of the print and that the race was prior to that date? From the trees it looks like Warwick Farm?

Thanks
Stephen

#6558 GMACKIE

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:59

Hi Ed, would you mind posting a higher res image of the photo with the S800, batch 8? The edge of the photo says June 1970 and I guess that is the date of the print and that the race was prior to that date? From the trees it looks like Warwick Farm?

Thanks
Stephen

It was 31st May, 1970, at Amaroo Park. The S800 [No. 34] was driven by G. Hanschuh.


#6559 launchpad

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:25

Here's a couple of Piers Courage in two minds of how to deal with Warwick Farm esses in Tasman 1969 practice.

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He was trying very hard.


Copyright Rod Mackenzie

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#6560 Eshe

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:46

Here is one of my pics of a glancing blow between John Goss and Alan Grice IIRC, late 70's Amaroo Park.

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#6561 bradbury west

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:46

IIRC what I was told by him when we were at WF a while back, Ray was pretty close to that action. He was very impressed by Courage's responses flat out.
Roger Lund

#6562 Eshe

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:52

Three themes at Amaroo Park 1979...

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#6563 Eshe

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:47

I am sure Murray Carter had better days at Oran Park than this one...

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#6564 Eshe

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:47

And another nostalgia trip to Oran Park...

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#6565 DanTra2858

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 21:03

Did T. Corcoron run the ex Leaton Motors Jaguar C type in Hill Climbs during 1958/1960 prior to purchasing the Lotus 11 or was it Ross Dalton.

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Huntley Hill Climb 1959/60

#6566 GMACKIE

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 21:05

Ross Dalton.

#6567 brucemoxon

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 21:51

And another nostalgia trip to Oran Park...

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Garrie Cooper (?), Kevin Bartlett, John Bowe and John McCormack. Elfin, Brabham, Elfin and McLaren.

Is this a very rare F500 shot, showing four cars and none of them a Lola?



Bruce Moxon

#6568 brucemoxon

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 21:53

Three themes at Amaroo Park 1979...



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Two things strike me here. One is Terry Shiel in the ex-Lakis Manticas Capri, that he only ran once or twice before going back to Mazda. The other is Chris Heyer's Golf, NOT burning.

Where is that Golf - anyone know? And Chris's Audi 5+5 as well.




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#6569 Welby

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 23:16

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Any more pics of the Gary Rogers Torana?
Thanks

#6570 GMACKIE

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 00:28

Two things strike me here. One is Terry Shiel in the ex-Lakis Manticas Capri, that he only ran once or twice before going back to Mazda. The other is Chris Heyer's Golf, NOT burning.

Where is that Golf - anyone know? And Chris's Audi 5+5 as well.




Bruce Moxon


Steve Muller [Kombi Rescue] has Chris Heyer's Golf now, Bruce.


#6571 seldo

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 00:42

Steve Muller [Kombi Rescue] has Chris Heyer's Golf now, Bruce.

That's a quick reply to such a burning question....

#6572 GMACKIE

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 00:57

Thought I should strike while the iron was hot. :blush:

#6573 brucemoxon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:01

You're both going to be punished for that. Some time in the punitentiary, perhaps.

Seriously, how could one car catch fire so much?



Bruce Moxon

#6574 seldo

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:48

You're both going to be punished for that. Some time in the punitentiary, perhaps.

Seriously, how could one car catch fire so much?

Bruce Moxon

Maybe he had his arsinit too much...

#6575 ed holly

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:15

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Honda photo ....

#6576 Eshe

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:33

Do you mean this sad looking Golf? I recall that it was stripped after this one - the seats ended up in an off-road buggy.

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#6577 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:15

Originally posted by brucemoxon
Two things strike me here. One is Terry Shiel in the ex-Lakis Manticas Capri, that he only ran once or twice before going back to Mazda. The other is Chris Heyer's Golf, NOT burning.....


And the Hopwood Capri is still pristine...

Note the pic from Eshe.

#6578 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:30

And the Hopwood Capri is still pristine...

Note the pic from Eshe.

Far more pristine than the Gopher but still dented.

And in the above pic of Murray Carters coupe, at least he knew a good panelbeater!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 20 February 2012 - 10:32.


#6579 brucemoxon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:43

Far more pristine than the Gopher but still dented.

And in the above pic of Murray Carters coupe, at least he knew a good panelbeater!


The Golf did race again, though. Ray Butterworth and Richard Vorst had it for a bit.

It'd be a really interesting addition to the Group C ranks, I think.




Bruce Moxon

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#6580 Eshe

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:59

A variation on the theme - Southern Cross Rally 1978 - Amaroo Park dirt circuit...sorry but I don't know who the driver is...

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#6581 GeoffR

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:02

Do you mean this sad looking Golf?

My cousin had a road going Golf that ended up looking like that - twice!
Early Golfs and wet roads didn't mix.

#6582 Eshe

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:13

My cousin had a road going Golf that ended up looking like that - twice!
Early Golfs and wet roads didn't mix.


It was a dry and expensive day...anyone remember this?

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#6583 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:32

It was a dry and expensive day...anyone remember this?

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The Golf looks extremely good compared with the Escort. I bet that was not repaired.

#6584 GeoffR

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:32

A variation on the theme - Southern Cross Rally 1978 - Amaroo Park dirt circuit...sorry but I don't know who the driver is...

Possibilities, from those that completed the entire course:
Team Crystal Rallyequip S Kanno/K Kawamura (Lancer)
Akimoto/Torita (Lancer)
All other Lancers that completed the full 'Cross that year were Aussie based, and the two examples above are obviously Japanese, so I don't think a New Calendonia entry finished. Don't have access to a full entry list though.

#6585 Ian G

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 22:44

Unless i'm getting my years mixed up i think the driver was from New Calendonia(possibly Leyraud) and IIRC he got a mention in the RCN report on the Rally so Ray may be able to find it.Again IIRC it was a works Lancer originally taken to New Calendonia from Japan for the Safari,i think Max Stahl won it in the 1960's & other Aussies from that era have gone over to have a run in it.Edit..had the wrong spelling of his name.


http://www.aprc.tv/driversPage.php?7/

Edited by Ian G, 20 February 2012 - 23:03.


#6586 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 00:39

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Far more pristine than the Gopher but still dented.


It was in the start line photo that it was pristine...

Nooumeans Dany Blancher and Yvette Polonyi ran a Lancer in that Southern Cross.

#6587 Eshe

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:11

Any more pics of the Gary Rogers Torana?
Thanks


Welby,

I found a side-on shot, same race...does that help?

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#6588 Eshe

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:43

Oran Park '78...

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#6589 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:37

Welby,

I found a side-on shot, same race...does that help?

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Whose is the XC Cobra? A car I do not recognise and not one of the Moffat ones. But at least it is going the right way unlike the two Garrys.

#6590 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:34

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Whose is the XC Cobra? A car I do not recognise and not one of the Moffat ones. But at least it is going the right way unlike the two Garrys.


Only one 'Garry' isn't there?

It's John Goss in the car painted the colours of the Goss Specials.

#6591 DJH

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:50

Garry Cooke and Gary Rogers.

#6592 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 13:56

Originally posted by DJH
Garry Cooke and Gary Rogers.


Precisely...

Old Bill didn't waste anything, he was in the scrap metal business after all. 'Gary' with one 'r' and Denis with one 'n'.

#6593 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 21:29

Only one 'Garry' isn't there?

It's John Goss in the car painted the colours of the Goss Specials.

John Goss specials were XB. That is an XC Cobra paint scheme. I do not remember Goss racing with those colors.

#6594 Hank the Deuce

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 23:21

John Goss specials were XB. That is an XC Cobra paint scheme. I do not remember Goss racing with those colors.

that car's in the Bowden's custody now, very original vehicle. It was an original road-going Cobra, unlike so many of the other racing Falcons of the era (for whatever that's worth).

Did he race it at Bathurst in 78/79? I had thought his Bathurst cars were light blue, but apparently he shared this one with Henri Pescarolo one year with sponsorship from K-Tel...


#6595 Welby

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:24

Yes Eshe, that's great pic.

Thanks very much for sharing.

Welby

#6596 seldo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:46

Precisely...

Old Bill didn't waste anything, he was in the scrap metal business after all. 'Gary' with one 'r' and Denis with one 'n'.

A bit obfuscated for the uninitiated Ray. Explanation = Neither Gary Cooke nor his brother Denis had a double consonant in their names...

#6597 David McKinney

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:41

My reading was that 'Old Bill' didn't waste an extra 'r' on Gary or an extra 'n' on Denis

#6598 DJH

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:40

There seems to be oil coming out of the ground in that photo. I guess they're pulling up to stake a claim.

Edited by DJH, 22 February 2012 - 08:41.


#6599 GeoffR

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:09

It's John Goss in the car painted the colours of the Goss Specials.

Pic below is of the 'Goss Special' Falcon, colour trims were either green or blue.
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Have just found a Youtube vid of the 1979 Bathurst race that shows the Goss/Pescarolo Falcon hardtop (no 3) in Cobra colours with K-Tel sponsorship. They retired after 118 laps according to the Great Race book.


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#6600 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:31

Pic below is of the 'Goss Special' Falcon, colour trims were either green or blue.
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Have just found a Youtube vid of the 1979 Bathurst race that shows the Goss/Pescarolo Falcon hardtop (no 3) in Cobra colours with K-Tel sponsorship. They retired after 118 laps according to the Great Race book.

Better known as the Joan Goose Special. They are everywhere, the US, the UK and South Africa. They do get around!
And they do need the larger rims and tyres to fill those huge guards. The standard rim was a white painted 6" wide 12 slot with from memory a 185x75x14 tyre. They were a low buck special!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 22 February 2012 - 22:20.