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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#6851 Catalina Park

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:07

Doug Macarthur told me that he competed in a Vee race at Catalina for Sports car drivers.

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#6852 brucemoxon

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:39

Hi Ian, I don't have any more shots in the pits, but here are a couple from the invitation race.
The start

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and Leo and KB disputing positions
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Hope these are acceptable. Maybe you can pick who else were in the vees.
Rod.

copyright Rod Mackenzie



Top photo - that's Leo in Ken Goodwin's car and so that will be Kevin in Damon Beck's. Or was Ken's car Bernie Haehnle's by then?

Ken and Leo are mates to this day - Ken calls Leo 'The Prince'. But Leo's a fair bit taller than Ken, who's about 5'8 to Leo's six foot or so. Kevin and Damon were much closer in size.

And yes, who's in the other cars?




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#6853 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 13:17

Great pics of that Vee race, Rod...

And in particular of Pete and Jack in the pits. Jack was a really nice bloke.

But as for Pete and his 'squeezy' fit, one must remember that it was way back about 1964 that the great 'Racing Car vs Touring Car' debate took place, as reported in RCN. 'TAB Tommy' (Tom Trentner) did a poetic report on it and one line was to explain why Pete wasn't in open-wheelers any more:

'He won't fit, he's too fat!'

And that was before the Mustang. How he got shoe-horned into the 250LM is another question.

#6854 seldo

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 16:09

.....and one line was to explain why Pete wasn't in open-wheelers any more:

'He won't fit, he's too fat!'

Unkind....I'd rather just say that he was "big-boned...."  ;)

#6855 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 21:44

Please, David, don't shoot the messenger...

I might look up that RCN when I get home and put in some of the other gems.

Would not Pete have been a good one to jam into something like a Lola T192?

#6856 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 22:59

Unkind....I'd rather just say that he was "big-boned...." ;)

In those days he was just too big, later he did get fat.

#6857 GMACKIE

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 23:11

Pete's driving style would have been much more of a problem in a Vee than his weight, after all, Damon Beck was fairly big then. With only 40 horses to play with, none could be 'wasted' going side-ways.

#6858 Lola5000

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 23:37

Great pics of that Vee race, Rod...

And in particular of Pete and Jack in the pits. Jack was a really nice bloke.

But as for Pete and his 'squeezy' fit, one must remember that it was way back about 1964 that the great 'Racing Car vs Touring Car' debate took place, as reported in RCN. 'TAB Tommy' (Tom Trentner) did a poetic report on it and one line was to explain why Pete wasn't in open-wheelers any more:

'He won't fit, he's too fat!'

And that was before the Mustang. How he got shoe-horned into the 250LM is another question.

Often thought Big Pete would have driven the 250LM as well as any one could drive one.
Pity he never went to say Le-Mans in the 60s as part of one of the Ford teams.

#6859 gkennedy

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 23:43

about 1964 that the great 'Racing Car vs Touring Car' debate took place, as reported in RCN. 'TAB Tommy' (Tom Trentner) did a poetic report on it and one line was to explain why Pete wasn't in open-wheelers any more

Tommy Trinder. He was part of the Wednesday night group at the 'Horsepower'. British actor/comedian who came to Australia to do shows at the Tivoli (amongst other places) and stayed for a decade or more.


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#6860 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:51

Pete's driving style would have been much more of a problem in a Vee than his weight, after all, Damon Beck was fairly big then. With only 40 horses to play with, none could be 'wasted' going side-ways.

Says a man with a pic of a sideways VW!
Though you are probably right.

#6861 launchpad

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:32

Great pics of that Vee race, Rod...

And in particular of Pete and Jack in the pits. Jack was a really nice bloke.

But as for Pete and his 'squeezy' fit, one must remember that it was way back about 1964 that the great 'Racing Car vs Touring Car' debate took place, as reported in RCN. 'TAB Tommy' (Tom Trentner) did a poetic report on it and one line was to explain why Pete wasn't in open-wheelers any more:

'He won't fit, he's too fat!'

And that was before the Mustang. How he got shoe-horned into the 250LM is another question.


There seemed to be plenty of room in the 250LM at Surfers 1968!

Posted Image

Rod

Copyright Rod Mackenzie

#6862 fredeuce

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 19:34

Here is a picture taken by my brother , as best I can date it, around the month of June 1969 at Collingrove. I believe this to be of a Winter Cup meeting. Shows an overall view of the pits from up on the hill.

Of particular interest is the long single seat front engined car that possibly dates from the 1930's in the lower right corner of the picture.

Can anyone around at that time remember that car and identify it?

Posted Image

Edited by fredeuce, 21 April 2012 - 19:35.


#6863 DanTra2858

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:24

There seemed to be plenty of room in the 250LM at Surfers 1968!

Posted Image

Rod

Copyright Rod Mackenzie


Not only was Pete large in bodymas but he was also tall as can be seen with the lack of head clearence, this would be the same for all tall drivers of a 250LM, I also wonder about sholder room with the door closed.

One thing that is very clear is the lack of head clearence if the car was to have inverted, the outcome would not have been nice.

#6864 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:57

Fred, I wouldn't be surprised if that was Black Bess painted light blue!

It's the tail of the car showing to the right.

As to Pete's 'shape', I well remember at the 1966 October Sandown meeting Peter Brock shaking his head... "He's disgusting, he's fat, he's obese! But ---- can't he drive!"

#6865 john medley

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 22:21

Perhaps 4 1/2 litre Talbot sports car which was in South Australia at the time?

#6866 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 23:17

Unkind....I'd rather just say that he was "big-boned...." ;)

Those mid 60s pics of Pete shows a big young man, tall wide shouldered and hipped. A bit chubby maybe.
By 1970 he was fat and all of the above.
But these days the fixation with gym junkie anorexic drivers really is a worry.Thats in life not just motorsport.
Mark Weber is probably the biggest F1 driver, broader than any other. And in some ways his biggest downfall as often he does look anorexic, that really is more dangerous than a few extra pounds. Mininum drivers weights of 80k is probably more realistic, the ballast under the seat!
Obviuosly fitness is still paramount but the fixation with weight, and the cars they build means you just about need a jockey to drive it.
And jockeys also should have a mininum weight. I had one in buying parts Friday and what he goes through to keep a ride is bloody stupid, and dangerous. Severely underweight.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 21 April 2012 - 23:21.


#6867 AnnieOz

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 00:43

Comparing the cars height to the standing people to me would rule out Black Bess - it was a very high car. What about the K3 of Tom Brady - pretty sure that was in Adelaide at that stage. Possible match for size, colour and general proportions.
Can anyone play with the image for us?
Highly appropriate image as the 60th Anniversary of Collingrove will be celebrated later this year. Any info, images, competitors are encouraged to be shared. I can pass on appropriate contact details if needed.

#6868 fredeuce

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:17

I don't believe that the car in question is Black Bess. The cockpit is too far to the rear and the tail extends much further behind the rear axle than Black Bess ever did. Not a K3 either I don't believe.

I remember seeing it a few times back then . Certain it was an Adelaide based car.

As to the suggestion of Talbot all I can say it wasn't a sports car. It was very much a 30's style open wheeler. Always reminded me of the late 30's Mercedes Benz GP cars.

My thinking is that it may have been Delage based. No certainty about that however.

Another car that stands out is the Mini Cooper "S" on the trailer with the gold coloured wagon towing. I believe that may have been Graham Bishop's car before he merged forces with Cyril Nancarrow.

Edited by fredeuce, 22 April 2012 - 04:56.


#6869 john medley

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:33

The Talbot T150C was a tight 2 seater, painted blue, with a long tail, and removable tear drop guards. It ran with and without these guards. Tony Lago and Walter Becchia were responsible for the design: could this encompass your "Delage" reference? It ran as a late 1930s French sports car against Delahaye, Delage, Bugatti, etc. The Talbot had a bluff vertical nose with grille - unlike the sleeker shape of a late 30s Mercedes GP car.The body was wider below than above its horizontal centre line.

I think an Englishman named Smith brought it with him when he worked in SA perhaps with Chrysler, and perhaps Chris Ralph( who is still around, racing from time to time) roadtested it ina Sports Car World article

None of this tells us what it is: I still say "perhaps"

#6870 fredeuce

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:31

John , thanks for your input.

My only response is that my recollection is that it was a single seater not a two seater.

Doesn't really get us much further. I expect someone will remember it and come to the rescue.

#6871 275 GTB-4

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:27

How good would have been Big Pete if he had lost a few stone in a F5000.


The best Rob...just the best...I have often wondered that myself :)

#6872 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 00:25

Originally posted by fredeuce
I don't believe that the car in question is Black Bess. The cockpit is too far to the rear and the tail extends much further behind the rear axle than Black Bess ever did.....


Yes, I realised later, though Black Bess had a long 'tail', most of it was ahead of the axle line.

Originally posted by Lola5000
How good would have been Big Pete if he had lost a few stone in a F5000?


I hadn't seen your post here (the page had turned), but I did post this:

Originally posted by myself
.....Would not Pete have been a good one to jam into something like a Lola T192?


The T192 and a couple of other F5000s were in fact big enough for Pete to fit into them. A real shame we never say him do that!

Originally posted by Lola5000
Often thought Big Pete would have driven the 250LM as well as any one could drive one.
Pity he never went to say Le-Mans in the 60s as part of one of the Ford teams.


Agreed there, too...

Mind you, what I posted on the 250LM subject was merely that I expected it would have got a bit tight for him, nothing to do with his performances, which were at times quite spectacular. As you would expect. Sights like this...

Posted Image

...were not at all uncommon. And note the caption, he eclipsed Andy Buchanan's time by about seven seconds there, as he also did at Bathurst in what I think was his first drive of the car. I'm sure tyres contributed a little, but Pete's skill contributed most of it.

#6873 Lola5000

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:24

Yes, I realised later, though Black Bess had a long 'tail', most of it was ahead of the axle line.



I hadn't seen your post here (the page had turned), but I did post this:



The T192 and a couple of other F5000s were in fact big enough for Pete to fit into them. A real shame we never say him do that!



Agreed there, too...

Mind you, what I posted on the 250LM subject was merely that I expected it would have got a bit tight for him, nothing to do with his performances, which were at times quite spectacular. As you would expect. Sights like this...

Posted Image

...were not at all uncommon. And note the caption, he eclipsed Andy Buchanan's time by about seven seconds there, as he also did at Bathurst in what I think was his first drive of the car. I'm sure tyres contributed a little, but Pete's skill contributed most of it.

Good point Ray re the F5000 Lola thats one car he would have fitted into.
At what year do you think he started to put the wait on in a big way?
20 odd years ago i asked John Shepherd,who was the best race driver he ever worked with.
2 words "Big Pete" going on whom he worked for and his own race team /car success,IMO thats good enough for me.

#6874 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:12

When did Pete start to put on weight?

Well... this was in the August 1965 issue of RCN... Leo's own words are quoted:

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He hadn't driven an openwheeler since 1963, IIRC. He had been in the Lotus 23 from '63 to '65.

#6875 ed holly

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 06:49

Have a bit of time to spare - so here are some more

ROD STEVENS' photos ... if you want any in higher res, PM me.

Ed


Batch 10
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Batch 11
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Batch 12
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Batch 13
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#6876 ed holly

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:00

Batch 14
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Batch 15
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Batch 16
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Batch 17
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#6877 ed holly

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:12

Batch 18
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Batch 19
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Batch 20
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Batch 21
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#6878 Lola5000

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:34

The Porsche's in tha above,whom is driving them?

#6879 eldougo

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:42

Bill Brown in the R/H Porsche driving under the Grace Brothers colors and the other two L/H drive are unknown to me.

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#6880 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:35

Actually it's Leo Geoghegan in the Reg Mort Porsche that's RHD...

The yellow with black front car is John Goss in his last drive before Ford told him not to race Porsches any more, while the one with the stripe along the side is the brand new purchase of Paul Ramsay which Bill Brown started from the rear of the grid. The meeting is March 1973.

Other predominant cars in that colour section are:

Orange Escort - John Bassett.
Yellow Falcon - Kingsley Hibbard (ex-Geoghegan Super Falcon)
Green Torana - Tom Nailard
Yellow Torana with broad black stripes - Bryan Thomson

For myself, I'm rather more interested in the openwheelers...

KB in the Yellow Submarine with no wings, Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 39 with no wings and Niel Allen with all the spoilers on the McLaren M4a. It's June 29, 1969, Niel retired, Leo won the Diamond Trophy yet again.

#6881 Lola5000

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 13:44

Actually it's Leo Geoghegan in the Reg Mort Porsche that's RHD...

The yellow with black front car is John Goss in his last drive before Ford told him not to race Porsches any more, while the one with the stripe along the side is the brand new purchase of Paul Ramsay which Bill Brown started from the rear of the grid. The meeting is March 1973.

Other predominant cars in that colour section are:

Orange Escort - John Bassett.
Yellow Falcon - Kingsley Hibbard (ex-Geoghegan Super Falcon)
Green Torana - Tom Nailard
Yellow Torana with broad black stripes - Bryan Thomson

For myself, I'm rather more interested in the openwheelers...

KB in the Yellow Submarine with no wings, Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 39 with no wings and Niel Allen with all the spoilers on the McLaren M4a. It's June 29, 1969, Niel retired, Leo won the Diamond Trophy yet again.

is the reg Mort car the ex Foley car?

#6882 Pat Clarke

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 13:52

Is that the Parnelli Jones STP turbine car strapped down on the trailer?
If so, what the heck was it doing there?

Pat

Edited by Pat Clarke, 25 April 2012 - 13:53.


#6883 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 21:48

Getting a free ride behind a Valiant AP6 wagon...

It is the Parnelli Jones car. We need these photos to be brought over to this page:

Posted Image

For the record, there had just been a big Racing Car Show in Melbourne arranged by Jim Abbott, this car had been one of the attractions.

#6884 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 21:51

Originally posted by Lola5000
Is the Reg Mort car the ex-Foley car?


I think so...

Didn't it got from Foley to Hamilton, then Mort?

#6885 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 22:22

Actually it's Leo Geoghegan in the Reg Mort Porsche that's RHD...

The yellow with black front car is John Goss in his last drive before Ford told him not to race Porsches any more, while the one with the stripe along the side is the brand new purchase of Paul Ramsay which Bill Brown started from the rear of the grid. The meeting is March 1973.

Other predominant cars in that colour section are:

Orange Escort - John Bassett.
Yellow Falcon - Kingsley Hibbard (ex-Geoghegan Super Falcon)
Green Torana - Tom Nailard
Yellow Torana with broad black stripes - Bryan Thomson

For myself, I'm rather more interested in the openwheelers...

KB in the Yellow Submarine with no wings, Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 39 with no wings and Niel Allen with all the spoilers on the McLaren M4a. It's June 29, 1969, Niel retired, Leo won the Diamond Trophy yet again.

Who is in the yellow Series Production LC XU1 trying to drive through Freddies back door from the grass.
The attitude on all those cars are horrendous, either full push or roll oversteer in those pics. And Pacers hiking wheels that high is scarey!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 25 April 2012 - 22:23.


#6886 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 22:55

Another batch to bring forward to this page:

Posted Image

It seems to be the March 28 meeting of 1971...

The yellow Falcon is Nick Petrilli, he spent a whole heat pushing along behind Leo Geoghegan who was pressing Bob Morris. That would be Scott McNaughton's Torana Fred Gibson's shoving onto the grass as he passed him in the first heat, or maybe Scott having another go (which just isn't going to work!), while the Torana behind Leo as he fought his way back from a poor start (3-speed box, remember...) could be Mick Brown or Lakis Manticas or ANother.

The Mini and Cortina? Who has a programme?

#6887 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:11

Another batch to bring forward to this page:

Posted Image

It seems to be the March 28 meeting of 1971...

The yellow Falcon is Nick Petrilli, he spent a whole heat pushing along behind Leo Geoghegan who was pressing Bob Morris. That would be Scott McNaughton's Torana Fred Gibson's shoving onto the grass as he passed him in the first heat, or maybe Scott having another go (which just isn't going to work!), while the Torana behind Leo as he fought his way back from a poor start (3-speed box, remember...) could be Mick Brown or Lakis Manticas or ANother.

The Mini and Cortina? Who has a programme?

The almost speedway numbers on some of those cars would not have passed here in Adelaide. We were being picked on the wrong font around that period. Someone had 2 foot high numbers which was frowned upon too though they could find nothing wrong with it after consulting the bible!!

#6888 scran

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:46

could the purple torana be Don Holland?

I have a picture of his Max Wright Motors car when it was purple - a few meetings later it was a gold colour with a black bonnet.

Both cars carried the number 30 - the shot I have of the purple car the number on the door is within a white square, so the car above may not be his.

#6889 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 03:45

His purple one was an LJ...

This is all in the LC days.

#6890 lyntonh

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:31

Getting a free ride behind a Valiant AP6 wagon...

It is the Parnelli Jones car. We need these photos to be brought over to this page:

Posted Image

For the record, there had just been a big Racing Car Show in Melbourne arranged by Jim Abbott, this car had been one of the attractions.


Posted Image
Sydney motor sports show June 1969

#6891 ed holly

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 23:20

In batch 11, there is a photo of the Geoghegan Lotus 47.

I have it on good authority that this is in fact Bob Beasley who won the Sports Closed race and finished second to Glyn Scott in the Sports Car event - Easter 1969

Here is the car again, cropped and a bit higher res.

Posted Image

Edited by ed holly, 26 April 2012 - 23:21.


#6892 Dale Harvey

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:03

In batch 11, there is a photo of the Geoghegan Lotus 47.

I have it on good authority that this is in fact Bob Beasley who won the Sports Closed race and finished second to Glyn Scott in the Sports Car event - Easter 1969

Here is the car again, cropped and a bit higher res.

Posted Image



Exactly correct Ed. Race 3 Sports Car Scratch race- closed type - division 1 & 2
1st Bob Beasley 2nd Doug Macarthur 3rd George Garth
Race 5 Mount Panorama Trophy Race Div 1 sports cars
1st Glyn Scott 2nd Bob Beasley 3rd Doug Macarthur

Dale.

#6893 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:25

It was only ever raced two or three times by Leo, wasn't it?

They were a long way removed from the basics of a Lotus Europa...

#6894 ed holly

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:31

The next 4 photos are actually from Rod's album, a place where I guess he kept his favouite shots. As there are 4 of them and to keep track I will call this Batch 24. The main reason for putting them here at this time is to keep the Lotus 47 thing going, there seems very few photos around of these wonderful cars here in Australia. I did hear there is quite a story attached to the delivery of this car. The Morgan in the lead in another of the photos is I believe the Ken Ward twincam, the Lotus 47 is again Bob Beasley, now painted his colours.

These are fabulous photos, very kindly passed to us by Rod's family.

Batch 24

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Posted Image

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#6895 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:38

That looks like Gronky in there behind the Mingay/Carter Datsun...

And it must surely be Derry George in the ex-Allen 23B ahead of Beasley. I can't work out what meeting that is to check.

#6896 ellrosso

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:44

Great shots Ed! Love that rear shot of the Cooper S's thru BP. Wouldn't be Bob Muir in the 23B would it? He guested a couple of times in that didn't he?

#6897 ed holly

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:32

Yes I believe it is Bob Muir ... Civil Flying School Lotus 23

#6898 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:49

Has he lapped Beasley, then?

Is there any indication of what meeting that pic's from?

#6899 Dale Harvey

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 23:18

Yes I agree, it would be Bob Muir in the 23B. The 48 215 looks like Barry Warwick. The first of the minis I reckon is Brian Foley, the second I don't know. Squeezed in between Ken Ward and the Mingay/ Carter Datsun looks like a Manx Mirage.
Dale.

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#6900 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 00:07

[quote name='Ray Bell' date='Apr 27 2012, 20:49' post='5690315']
Has he lapped Beasley, then?

I don't think so, Ray!! The 47 was a pretty quick car in the right hands and would not have been lapping much slower than the 23.

I think the driver of the Datsun is Richard Carter and the car behind Gronkey is Andy Roberts in the Climax Special.