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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#7201 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 00:07

Originally posted by fredeuce
.....The reference to the engine being sourced from a Plymouth Fury suggests it should have a 4 barrel carb but clearly it only has a 2 barrel. If it was an earlier import then probably a 303 ci engine.


We had the Plymouth Belvedere sold here, I'd imagine it had a 318, my memory says only 1958 and 1959. Also with 318 Polys we had the '60 and '61 Phoenix, all later engines had just two bolts fixing each rocker covers while this has three.

I'm still not sure whether or not we had the 27? Poly, but we certainly had the 303 and the 313 in Chrysler Royals and Dodge trucks. All such engines were 2bbl equipped as is the engine in the photos.

"Auschry" could have been a reference to the Chrysler Royal or to Chrysler as the manufacturer, of course. And I agree, David, it wouldn't sound too good as an "Ausdod" (or maybe "Ausdoj"), but do we have any programme references to engine capacity?

It could be that Riches imported the engine prior to there being any sold here, of course, in which the Fury reference could be right (but unlikely, as above), in that case it should have been a 318 but it could possibly have been one of the smaller US-made versions.

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#7202 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:37

We had the Plymouth Belvedere sold here, I'd imagine it had a 318, my memory says only 1958 and 1959. Also with 318 Polys we had the '60 and '61 Phoenix, all later engines had just two bolts fixing each rocker covers while this has three.

I'm still not sure whether or not we had the 27? Poly, but we certainly had the 303 and the 313 in Chrysler Royals and Dodge trucks. All such engines were 2bbl equipped as is the engine in the photos.

"Auschry" could have been a reference to the Chrysler Royal or to Chrysler as the manufacturer, of course. And I agree, David, it wouldn't sound too good as an "Ausdod" (or maybe "Ausdoj"), but do we have any programme references to engine capacity?

It could be that Riches imported the engine prior to there being any sold here, of course, in which the Fury reference could be right (but unlikely, as above), in that case it should have been a 318 but it could possibly have been one of the smaller US-made versions.

Poly engines come in a variety of guises, some Furys were 2 bbl also. Royals and Phoneboxes both used polys, I believe the 318 was about 59 before that was 313 which has a slightly smaller bore than the 318 and some use a different crank flange too. In that era quite a few US engines were imported for performance applications, though within reason you had to take what was advailable. That is how Clem Smith used an Oldsmobile rocket engine in his speedway car, as it was the only modern engine he could get his hands on.
In their day these polys were quite a good engine, power realistically was probably similar to a 283 Chev. So the A90 would have been quite quick, and the Dodge quicker again in a straight line. Though one would guess the A90 would handle and stop better.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 11 September 2012 - 03:41.


#7203 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:28

Lee, the 318 was in production in the US prior to 1959. The original Poly was 277ci, that was used in Plymouths in 1956. In 1957 the 301ci version came out and also the 318ci version. However, in Canada (built at the Windsor plant, about five miles from the main US Chrysler plant) they started with the 303ci version and that was also in production in 1956.

There were 301s as well, some later (1959?) Dodges had a 326 version, but when Canada went up in size it was 0.030" smaller in the bore than the 318 and so it was a 313.

The crank flange change, which accompanied a bellhousing bolt pattern change, came in 1962 in both Canada and the USA. That was an across the board change, not piecemeal, though the older crank and bolt pattern was still sold here on the later Chrysler Royals. It's very likely that's because they were using up leftover production or because these were in stock here before the change was made. I think the same applied to the 313s used in the Bristols, which had different carburetion.

Just to complete the picture, the Dodge Custom Royals sold here in '58 and '59 had the 361 big block engine, which was also used in a very small number of trucks through the early sixties. The 318 Poly was a popular truck engine right up until production ceased in 1967.

Power ratings for the competitive engines in 1960 were 230hp/340lb-ft for the Poly, 185hp/292lb-ft for the 292 Ford and 170hp/275lb-ft for the 283. Various 4bbl versions etc no doubt varied from these figures, of course, but I'd be thinking that the drivers with Chrysler power would be happiest.

#7204 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:59

Lee, the 318 was in production in the US prior to 1959. The original Poly was 277ci, that was used in Plymouths in 1956. In 1957 the 301ci version came out and also the 318ci version. However, in Canada (built at the Windsor plant, about five miles from the main US Chrysler plant) they started with the 303ci version and that was also in production in 1956.

There were 301s as well, some later (1959?) Dodges had a 326 version, but when Canada went up in size it was 0.030" smaller in the bore than the 318 and so it was a 313.

The crank flange change, which accompanied a bellhousing bolt pattern change, came in 1962 in both Canada and the USA. That was an across the board change, not piecemeal, though the older crank and bolt pattern was still sold here on the later Chrysler Royals. It's very likely that's because they were using up leftover production or because these were in stock here before the change was made. I think the same applied to the 313s used in the Bristols, which had different carburetion.

Just to complete the picture, the Dodge Custom Royals sold here in '58 and '59 had the 361 big block engine, which was also used in a very small number of trucks through the early sixties. The 318 Poly was a popular truck engine right up until production ceased in 1967.

Power ratings for the competitive engines in 1960 were 230hp/340lb-ft for the Poly, 185hp/292lb-ft for the 292 Ford and 170hp/275lb-ft for the 283. Various 4bbl versions etc no doubt varied from these figures, of course, but I'd be thinking that the drivers with Chrysler power would be happiest.

Mopar had so many engine variations I really do not know how they made money. Here in Oz our cars were largely sourced from Canada and assembled here. Even then with a variety of engines. The 361 being another more common one. Both in big cars and larger trucks. They confuse me, a bloke I know has a finned Plymouth?Desoto? with a 350 cube engine. That looks like neither of the above. Then the 383-426 cars. And the slightly earlier baby hemis too.And then the later 440 cars!
I think too that Chrysler were making false claims, I doubt any sawtooth engine ever had 230hp standard. Not with about 8-1 and a 2bbl carb and about 4600 rpm flat out. That is more than the later valiant V8 which is a bit stronger. Though they are a good strong motor and reasonable power can be made from them though like the Y block a bit big and heavy for the capacity.

#7205 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:48

The block is externally identical to the later 'LA' 318s and 273s (and 340s and 360s, for that matter)...

The cranks interchange, as do rods and pistons at a stretch, timing gear, timing cover, distributor, oil pumps etc.

The 350 was the first 'big block' of the modern era, and I think it might be that those Dodges I mentioned had 350s rather than 361s too. They were the foundation for all the later big blocks up to the 440, with the difference that, like the Ford 351 and the P76, the blocks got an inch taller.

Everyone I know who has experienced the Poly vs the LA 318 reckons the Poly pulls better.

#7206 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:27

The block is externally identical to the later 'LA' 318s and 273s (and 340s and 360s, for that matter)...

The cranks interchange, as do rods and pistons at a stretch, timing gear, timing cover, distributor, oil pumps etc.

The 350 was the first 'big block' of the modern era, and I think it might be that those Dodges I mentioned had 350s rather than 361s too. They were the foundation for all the later big blocks up to the 440, with the difference that, like the Ford 351 and the P76, the blocks got an inch taller.

Everyone I know who has experienced the Poly vs the LA 318 reckons the Poly pulls better.

Pistons do not, Poly is canted valve and different valve spacing.And very different valve reliefs. Though some valve train components do interchange with 273.
having driven both give me the LA. Though having driven tired Phoneboxes and Royals maybe not a true comparison.
The 361 looks different to this 350. I have had limited experience with 361s both in trucks and late finned Mopars Belvederes, Desotos,etc.

#7207 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:38

Pistons "at a stretch" I did say...

I have taken LA Pistons out of a Poly after they'd been there for some time, the valve relief was close enough. And the 350 and 361 are both B-blocks, maybe the manifolding was different or something?

#7208 SJ Lambert

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 08:33

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#5a - Col Riches 1958


I've just learnt that Col purchased an Elfin Streamliner after selling the Auschry, it seems that he bought Bob Williams Ford 100E powered car around 1963, the Streamliner passed into Adrian Lynch's hands around the time of Col's death in '66. It may be that the Streamliner is still with the Lynch family..??

#7209 David Shaw

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:17

The Auschry would probably have been a decent weapon in the late '50s Saloon racing game, pity that Col didn't retire the old Dodge a couple of years earlier.

#7210 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:55

A pity he didn't put the Poly into the Streamliner!

His old Dodge fits in a class joined by a select few, really. Don Gibson's '38 or '39 Dodge that ran at NSW circuits in the mid-fifties, The Tresize '38 Ford V8 sedan that ran in WA and his Dodge. With a long bow we can also add the Morris 10 previously discussed here.

#7211 ken devine

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 23:37

Speaking of Loyd Tresize here he is monstering Bruce McLaren in a 62 AGP support race. Loyd drove a 2 door Coupe the same model in the early 50s.






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#7212 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 00:50

A pity he didn't put the Poly into the Streamliner!

His old Dodge fits in a class joined by a select few, really. Don Gibson's '38 or '39 Dodge that ran at NSW circuits in the mid-fifties, The Tresize '38 Ford V8 sedan that ran in WA and his Dodge. With a long bow we can also add the Morris 10 previously discussed here.

The motor and gearbox would weigh more than the car!!

#7213 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 14:13

Another 'factual' reply, Lee?

Just how heavy do you think a Poly is?

#7214 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 00:21

Another 'factual' reply, Lee?

Just how heavy do you think a Poly is?

A LOT more than an LA, plus the extra weight of a suitable gearbox and diff. In the early 60s. That would at least treble the weight of an A series and gearbox and diff that was common in those cars.
Those little Elfins were decidedly 'elfin' in weight. Even in comparison to a moden small sports car.

#7215 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 19:15

29lbs, Lee... that's the difference...

The heads are 7lbs heavier each, the rest is in the block, all other bits are the same, though I didn't include the manifold in the 'weigh-in' as you would naturally replace this.



#7216 lyntonh

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:18

Sandown Tasman meeting 1971
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That flag point is so ridiculously dangerous....................

#7217 john medley

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 16:36

.... not least when you contemplate Garry Cooper's later accident at that very spot

#7218 lyntonh

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 22:59

Open Wheelers Sandown Tasman Meeting 1971
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That piece of pipe sticking out from the fence behind is something I should have noticed before I chose this spot to shoot from.
I'm wondering what it is. It's another hazard to hit if you get into trouble at the fastest part of the circuit.



#7219 SJ Lambert

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 23:52

Is car no.41 a Mono on 'roids being driven by Alfie?

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#7220 275 GTB-4

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 00:58

Open Wheelers Sandown Tasman Meeting 1971

That piece of pipe sticking out from the fence behind is something I should have noticed before I chose this spot to shoot from.
I'm wondering what it is. It's another hazard to hit if you get into trouble at the fastest part of the circuit.


Noise monitor? Sprinkler head for the GGs? Timing point?....yes, quite a hazard


#7221 David Shaw

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:19

The scariest part of that corner for me is the support for the Marlboro Country overhead sign. I recall in 1973 when I think it was Davo in his F5000 went off between the support and the horse rail. Could have been very nasty for him, and brought the signage down onto the track.

#7222 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:01

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
Noise monitor? Sprinkler head for the GGs? Timing point?....yes, quite a hazard


Huh?

It's a water supply pipe for the sprinklers that run off the pipe that's clearly visible on the horse running rails.

David, do you mean John Walker's big one?

James, could it be a Lotus 41? Or maybe Cook in the Devione?

The 600B (or 600E?) is Maurie Quincey, SA-based 600s mentioned in the report include Ramsay and Walker, this is Ramsay.

Sports cars are obviously Ken Hastings (ex-Jane/Gibson Elfin 400) and John Harvey, but I have no idea what that ugly thing Harvey is lapping might have been. The VW in the background of the Hastings shot is Pat Crea, of course, I'm not sure whether the other car is the Robertson Capri or someone named Yates who finally beat Crea in this race, what he was driving wasn't mentioned.

#7223 David Shaw

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:15

David, do you mean John Walker's big one?


That sounds like it Ray.

#7224 Paul Newby

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:00

Talking of Ian Cook and the perils of Sandown. Sadly Cook "bought it" (as they used to say in the day) at Sandown in July 73 in his newly acquired Brabham BT36. I actually saw a newspaper clip on the accident (showing photos) and it appeared to swap ends at the first corner and left the track on the inside and side swiped a concrete block that helped secure the Shell overhead sign. I think they mentioned a deflating front tyre as the possible cause.

I realise that this was near the pit entry of the "old" Sandown layout, but the placement of all of these unnecessary addendums close to the track just made things more dangerous than they needed to be. Track safety has certainly moved on since the 1970s....




#7225 Glenn Moulds

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:44

Is car no.41 a Mono on 'roids being driven by Alfie?


Just checked the programme - Ray was pretty close. It's the Lotus 32 of Terry Quartly.

#7226 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:54

The windscreen...

I should have picked that myself, actually! He is mentioned in the race report.

#7227 Glenn Moulds

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:00

Sports cars are obviously Ken Hastings (ex-Jane/Gibson Elfin 400) and John Harvey, but I have no idea what that ugly thing Harvey is lapping might have been. The VW in the background of the Hastings shot is Pat Crea, of course, I'm not sure whether the other car is the Robertson Capri or someone named Yates who finally beat Crea in this race, what he was driving wasn't mentioned.


Ray, the Capri should be Robertson as according to the programme that is the only one entered. Sports Cars and Sports Sedans actually ran together so the Yates mentioned would be David Yates in an Elfin Climax.

The "ugly thing" is interesting! I'm not familiar with the more obscure Sports Cars of the era but, looking at the entry list, if we eliminate the Elfins, McLaren, Matich, Geneer, etc, as well as the production-based vehicles and "conventional" Clubmans, we are left with Bryan Hill's Tuan, Trevor Hill's Froya Ford or possibly Doug Stuchberry's Clubman Ford (if this wasn't a "conventional" Clubman). Anyone know these particular cars?

#7228 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:13

I wasn't sure if it was a Capri or an Escort, and I had no idea what Yates was in...

If it's Robertson it must be early in the race as he got by Crea pretty quickly.

#7229 lyntonh

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:32

Here's a grainy picture of the Capri
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There's no more of the "ugly" one.

#7230 SJ Lambert

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:29

Just checked the programme - Ray was pretty close. It's the Lotus 32 of Terry Quartly.



Ta fellas, windscreen was definitely not Elfin, the bumps on the nose cone was what had me going, even though the air intake was non conforming to that of a Mono. Rear suspension looks nice.

#7231 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:06

Just checked the programme - Ray was pretty close. It's the Lotus 32 of Terry Quartly.


Terry's Lotus 32 was ex Leo Geoghegan. It fell on very hard times during the 1970's and, after Harry Galloway completed a superb restoration, it was sold to a European buyer about 20 years ago. It is now on its way back to Australia for a visit to the Tasman Revival meeting at Eastern Creek in November where it will be driven by the current Swiss owner, Peter Studer.

#7232 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:34

I thought the only 'hard times' it knew were those moments it went banging into the embankment at Amaroo...

It certainly wasn't the kind of life the car was used to, but I recently saw a John Ellacott pic of it minus a few corners at Warwick Farm too.

#7233 lyntonh

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 22:50

Sandown Tasman meeting 1971

Some series production....

Toranas first....different cornering styles...
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Colin Bond

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Malcolm Ramsey

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John Leffler was the most spectacular....not the quickest... but good to watch

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Ramsey & Leffler

Oh & have a look at the cans laying all over the horse race track in the background.....
Melbourne people were a messy lot in those days!!

#7234 lyntonh

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 22:53

Falcons....

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Bruce McPhee

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Allan Moffat...much tighter line

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how AM got behind I can't remember, but BMcP waves him through

Edited by lyntonh, 20 September 2012 - 04:05.


#7235 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:41

As Moffat had crashed in practice, and had not finished at Warwick Farm, it was a good idea for McPhee to win this round...

The Fords had it all over everyone else, so Bruce got to the front and was there all the way except for a brief time where Moffat passed him on the last lap (to show he was really boss...) and then let him take the flag first.

Bond had the fastest Torana, Leffler was not only second fastest of the Toranas in practice but also easily led the other Toranas home in the race.

This meeting I recall McPhee being really cheesed off with his Ford drive. He insisted that his car had been changed overnight after practice, possibly to raid stuff for Moffat's 'rebuild' as he Moffat car was in a bad way.

#7236 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:42

As Moffat had crashed in practice, and had not finished at Warwick Farm, it was a good idea for McPhee to win this round...

The Fords had it all over everyone else, so Bruce got to the front and was there all the way except for a brief time where Moffat passed him on the last lap (to show he was really boss...) and then let him take the flag first. That's Moffat going round the outside in your pic, so presumably that's the last lap.

Bond had the fastest Torana, Leffler was not only second fastest of the Toranas in practice but also easily led the other Toranas home in the race.

This meeting I recall McPhee being really cheesed off with his Ford drive. He insisted that his car had been changed overnight after practice, possibly to raid stuff for Moffat's 'rebuild' as he Moffat car was in a bad way.

#7237 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:00

Falcons....

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Bruce McPhee

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Allan Moffat...much tighter line

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how AM got behing I can't remember, but BMcP waves him through

The drivers attitude in the cars. All the Torana drivers are hunched forward stretching for the wheel wheres Moffat in particular does look far more relaxed and upright in the Ford.
And who says those narrow gutted little Toranas used to tricycle a lot!!

#7238 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:08

As Moffat had crashed in practice, and had not finished at Warwick Farm, it was a good idea for McPhee to win this round...

The Fords had it all over everyone else, so Bruce got to the front and was there all the way except for a brief time where Moffat passed him on the last lap (to show he was really boss...) and then let him take the flag first. That's Moffat going round the outside in your pic, so presumably that's the last lap.

Bond had the fastest Torana, Leffler was not only second fastest of the Toranas in practice but also easily led the other Toranas home in the race.

This meeting I recall McPhee being really cheesed off with his Ford drive. He insisted that his car had been changed overnight after practice, possibly to raid stuff for Moffat's 'rebuild' as he Moffat car was in a bad way.

#7239 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:08

As Moffat had crashed in practice, and had not finished at Warwick Farm, it was a good idea for McPhee to win this round...

The Fords had it all over everyone else, so Bruce got to the front and was there all the way except for a brief time where Moffat passed him on the last lap (to show he was really boss...) and then let him take the flag first. That's Moffat going round the outside in your pic, so presumably that's the last lap.

Bond had the fastest Torana, Leffler was not only second fastest of the Toranas in practice but also easily led the other Toranas home in the race.

This meeting I recall McPhee being really cheesed off with his Ford drive. He insisted that his car had been changed overnight after practice, possibly to raid stuff for Moffat's 'rebuild' as he Moffat car was in a bad way.

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#7240 lyntonh

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:18

The 600B (or 600E?) is Maurie Quincey, SA-based 600s mentioned in the report include Ramsay and Walker, this is Ramsay.
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This photo shows the car named for John Walker.
Ramsey's helmet colour is white, presuming he wore the same helmet in both cars....
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#7241 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:29

I was going by photos at a Mallala at around the same time...

Looks like the photos are somewhat confusing. Though I don't think Ramsay would have used the open-face helmet in the 600.

#7242 lyntonh

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:12

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Interesting how many marbles there are on the outside of the corner....

#7243 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 23:08

Just as an obscure point of interest the City State cars [both circuit and rally] were run by Stewart Mcleod and were run out of an old Service station and bus depot on Winston Ave Daw Pk. The servo was previously run by Alec Rowe who was well known in speedway circles as a car builder and engineer.Built some of the cars ran by Bill Wigzell and later Steve Stewart. So the site had motorsport pedigree!!
The place is currently a music store.

#7244 wolseley680

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:24

Tasman Series 1968, dummy grid at Surfers Paradise, Lotus 49s of Hill & Clark, Courage's McLaren FVA, BRM of Rodriguez

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Edited by wolseley680, 02 October 2012 - 10:37.


#7245 wolseley680

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:58

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Tasman Series 1968 Surfers Paradise Leo Geoghegan's Lotus 39 Repco being started by John Shepherd

Edited by wolseley680, 02 October 2012 - 10:39.


#7246 Tim Murray

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:14

Something wrong with the size of the image but I don't know what I have done wrong, I've gone to ImageShack and clicked "get code for Forums" - I have already posted this image under the Gold Coast Indy heritage and it came out the right size.

John, you've uploaded them as thumbnails - I think you must have inadvertently selected the wrong Imageshack option when uploading them. You can correct this (as I've done below) by removing the '.th' from the photo's URL.

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#7247 wolseley680

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:41

John, you've uploaded them as thumbnails - I think you must have inadvertently selected the wrong Imageshack option when uploading them. You can correct this (as I've done below) by removing the '.th' from the photo's URL.

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Thank you Tim - I have gone back and edited them, simple wasn't it.

#7248 wolseley680

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:46

Jim Clark's Gold Leaf Team Lotus 49 with adverts taped over at CAMS insistence.

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#7249 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 22:31

Jim Clark's Gold Leaf Team Lotus 49 with adverts taped over at CAMS insistence.

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They were lucky. The scrutineers insisted that I remove [not tape over] a phone number which was part of a business logo at the 94GP as the ph no on the rear 1/4 might get confused with the race number on the doors!! One was a 100mm and one was 300mm!
That cost me ongoing sponsorship, you had to pay money to unconfuse the timekeepers it seems. John Briggs was on pole with large ph numbers on the car but he had paid it seems.
And CAMS wonders why it is losing relevance more and more every year!!

#7250 Ian G

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 00:09

I know there are guys on this Forum that were at Surfers at the time but it was still bubbling along when the Teams arrived at Warwick Farm,Chapman had calmed down & some of the wiser Cams heads were attempting damage control but i remember guys in the Shell tent saying it will be the end of the Tasman series if they they don't get Chapman back onside.