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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#9151 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:59

Originally posted by ken devine
Getting back to the Collie photos the shot of Jack Ayres  and the others are exiting the main straight which wasn't very long,You will note the same strainer pole on the corner protected by a sandbag.The same start finish straight was used both years although one of my photos shows the start close to a corner. Ray i will send you some more of these photos.My 2 original albums have the meetings correctly dated.


I look forward to getting those, Ken...

But as far as all of these are concerned, I'm certain of the location being as I said, turning from Prinsep Street South into Rowley Street.

This is not a part of the circuit as mapped in Around The Houses. Well, Rowley Street is, but going the opposite direction. And Prinsep Street South had houses on every lot both sides of the street along that block, so it wasn't where the pits were located.

Further, judging by the (scant) evidence of the assembly of the crowd at the other end of the street, I'd say they have come into Prinsep Street South by turning left out of Kingsford Street.

This, therefore, is the 'unknown' circuit. But I'd imagine Jeff Dunkerton is still around and could probably outline where it went.

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#9152 ken devine

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:23

Ray i have the Around the Houses book in front of me and the streets you mention aren't on the map shown. Those mentioned in the direction of racing are Atkinson St ,Rowley St Mungalup Rd,Crampton St,Parrerson St, Throssell St..Now i am confused. Please explain Terry.



#9153 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:50

Terry has said there was a second circuit used...

These pictures do not fit in with anywhere on the circuit he has mapped, they must be the other circuit.

By way of confirmation, Ken, there is only one right hand intersection in the circuit he has mapped, it isn't this one.






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Edited by Ray Bell, 16 February 2015 - 04:51.


#9154 Wirra

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 07:26

Are these accurate?

 

http://theracingline...cuits/index.htm

 

Click on 'Street Circuits', and then 'Northam', 'Bunbury' or 'Collie', etc.


Edited by Wirra, 17 February 2015 - 03:38.


#9155 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:57

That should be 'Northam'...

Which isn't very close to Collie at all.

Generally speaking, I trust Terry's maps and these seem to be based on those.

The best bet would be to check them against Google Earth maps.






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Edited by Ray Bell, 16 February 2015 - 09:13.


#9156 ken devine

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:13

All i can say is my self and 3 others didn't know where they were taking photos.



#9157 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:40

As I said, Ken, there is no doubt whatever that the pictures posted from Collie, all but the one of Barfield on his own in the late afternoon, were taken at the corner mentioned and in the direction I mentioned.

Do you have photos from Collie that aren't taken at that corner?

#9158 Wilyman

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:47

Yes. Doug Green's Ferrari. Doug sporting his composition 'pudding basin' helmet. :eek:

Most drivers had by then advanced to the 'jet' type helmets or the more stylish 'Herbie Johnston', 


Edited by Wilyman, 16 February 2015 - 09:51.


#9159 rasimmo

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:57

That truly is a shame...

Will they be putting them on a website somewhere?

I really dont know what their intentions are Ray. I would like to post the rest of slides I Scanned, but Heinz was a friend and I wouldn`t offend his family.

Simmo



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#9160 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 00:10

I have moved this post to the next one because the stupid advertisement to the right reduces the size of the pictures!


















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Edited by Ray Bell, 17 February 2015 - 00:14.


#9161 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 00:13

What I am doing here is trying to establish where the second (or was it the first?) Collie street circuit went...

Terry Walker, can you please join in?

The majority of the Collie photos posted in the past week have been at this corner:

0215_GEprinsepand_Rowley.jpg

You can see, if you look at the various photos, that this is definitely where they were taken.

0215prinsepand_Rowley.jpg

Just to further confirm this, here we have two photos from Ken clearly showing they are turning out of Prinsep Street South before it turns into Prinsep Crescent. Wally Higgs is the driver:

0215frkndvnwallyhiggsprinsep.jpg

0215frkndvnwallyhiggsturningintorowley.j

Another photo from Ken I can now confirm is in Prinsep Street South:

0215frkndvnbwrepcoholden_MG.jpg

Ray Barfield in the Aston leading Bob Annear past an MG, now check the houses, this is in the block between Kingsford Street and Crampton Street...

0215prinsepststh.jpg

This, however, means I was wrong in an earlier post where I concluded that they had turned out of Kingsford into Prinsep Street South. Now I know how it works, check this one with Jeff Dunkerton's MG about to be swamped by Bob Annear:

0215frkndvn_Dunkerton_Annearcramptonst.j

Plenty of action here, but how can I say it's at Crampton Street turning into Prinsep?

0215cramptonstreet.jpg

What I looked for first was that water tank on the hill. That's to the left of Atkinson Street just out of frame, trust me or ask me to post another pic. And then you see the houses across the park, check the rooflines on them and you'll see what we have.

But what of the angled bit of roadway at the bottom? Not there any more, but I don't doubt it was, just as I don't doubt that Crampton Street used to come right on through there but it has now been truncated.

What we need more is more photos of Collie that aren't in this street. The one of the Ferrari I cannot identify, nor the one of Barfield on his own.

#9162 ken devine

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 00:28

Ray please don't confuse the issue the shots of Doug Green in the Ferrari and Ray Barfield in the Aston are Bunbury December 26th 1960. The single sportscar shot at Collie is Jack Ayres in the Byfield sports on the same corner as the 3 car shot and the Wally Higgs shot.

Jeff Dunkerton couldn't help much only to say the MGA in the slide wasn't him possibly Max Mc Cracken. The photos of the present you are showing are most likely the 1960 circuit and the one in around the houses more likely 1961 which my photos show left hand corners but the start finish line the same position.I have just photographed the pages in my album and i will send them to you later today.



#9163 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 00:37

Thank you, Ken...

Until you sent me the one of the MG with Bob Annear behind it as well as the monochrome pic, I knew that every shot we had was of that same corner, that is barring the Barfield and Green pics.

I had an idea the Barfield and Green shots were somewhere other than Collie. I now look forward with eagerness to receiving your own pics.

So if Jeff didn't race there in 1960, is there anyone still around who did?




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Edited by Ray Bell, 17 February 2015 - 00:39.


#9164 Terry Walker

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:34

When I was digging around doing Fast Tracks, I tried looking up the WA Government Gazette, which was where councils would formally announce road closures for things like parades... and race meetings. I no longer have the notes handy, but for one Collie meeting there was a cluster of road closures south of the ridge where the water tank in the photos was (and still is), and the corner with the MG and Pegasus was the northenmost street closed. However, the roads actually closed, according to the Gazette, made no sense as a circuit, since they didn't join up. My conclusion was that the circuit was entirely south of the ridge, and clockwise possibly, but where the hell it actually went was anyone's guess.  There was no description or detail in Visor, nor the newspapers, such as could be found. Just that passing mention of the "white city" cicuit.  Finally I gave up as I couldn't even be sure the closed roads were necessarily part of the racing circuit, or even if the closed roads were actually used at all. There was a great deal of, er, flexibility, in arrangements, and it wasn't unknown for a road circuit to be hastily revised on the day.  Hence no mention in Fast Tracks either, as I simply couldn't satisfy myself about it.

 

BUT, assuming the nest of closed roads WAS related to the circuit, it would have been a much shorter one that the original, and around that lower area of south Collie.  And probably clockwise.  From Watson St in the North to Telfer Cresc in the south, from Porter in the West to Pinsep in the east.  Sort of. Maybe.

 

There have indeed been road and intersection revisions in Collie in the last 50 years-- crikey, these meetings were half a century ago! -- so it's quite likely we will never know for sure about the Collie photos other than they definitely are Collie.

 

The single box of slides, by the way, had Collie, Bunbury and Cavvo pics in it. All unlabelled and unidentified. So, if we CAN positively identify them, great!


Edited by Terry Walker, 17 February 2015 - 05:36.


#9165 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:14

There's no doubt that it was all west of Pinsep, Terry...

They come from the west into it and go away from it to the west, there is no logical way for a circuit to get anywhere east of there again.

#9166 Repco22

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:52

Being a teenager and a pedestrian at the time, I was unable to go to those Collie meetings but have often wondered about the circuits. Now living only a half hour away,

we recently drove around there, trying to identify houses and landmarks from old racing pics. I was surprised to discover that the main drag through the town, Throssell Street,

was a part of the circuit. Without venturing into the shed to dig out old 'Visors', I'd say the green MGA is Max McCracken's.

         Jeff Dunkerton and Lionel Beattie also raced similar MGAs around that time but not with the full screen up.  Max and his partner Patsy Hills had recently arrived on the scene but had yet to take control of the WASCC. When Max won the handicap main event in '61 I drew a cartoon of him for the Visor.

         Well spotted Fredeuce---  Bob Annear's blower on Pegasus was indeed from a GM diesel .

         Regarding survivors from the events, the only ones I can think of are Bob Avery, Dave Sullivan Snr. and Kevin Lang. Unless the Vanguard driver was John Glasson.



#9167 ken devine

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:35

Direct from the owner the green MGA no 33 leading Bob Annear is Jeff Dunkerton in the cars first race meeting.



#9168 Repco22

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:01

This is getting muddy Ken. What does post 9162 mean? 

As far as I know, other survivors from the 1960 meeting are; Mike Tighe, Stan Starcevich, Jim Ward, Brian Lemon, Jack Rowe and J Covich.



#9169 ken devine

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 22:34

It's all pretty clear to me Rod i am not confused as i was there.



#9170 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 23:14

As there are multiple shots of Barfield and Green, perhaps Rod hasn't gone back a couple of pages and seen the ones to which you were referring...

#9171 Repco22

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 01:38

As there are multiple shots of Barfield and Green, perhaps Rod hasn't gone back a couple of pages and seen the ones to which you were referring...

Thanks Ray. Quite right. I didn't go back far enough. Apologies Ken. Regarding my good mate, the late Bob Annear and his 'Phoenix' Dauphine; When he fitted the Peugeot motor transversely in the rear he constructed his own means of transmitting power to the wheels. I took a pic of him inspecting the wreck after he tangled with Julian Cowan coming onto the Caversham straight. When I learn how to post pics...



#9172 ProvaMO31

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 16:01

Hi guys

 

Maybe someone could help me ( sorry for my bad English skill...i am from France :| )

 

i have seen on this topic some pics about Chris Amon and Ferrari 350P, Scuderia Veloce , 1968 Australian Races .

 

Is there anybody who knows what is this yellow round logo located  of the back of the car / on the both side ( sorry i did not succeed to download the original pic from my desk

i guess it is probably a sponsor, but what is it exactly ?? :confused:

 

thanks in advance for your precious help

 

best regards

 

Loic


Edited by ProvaMO31, 01 March 2015 - 16:02.


#9173 275 GTB-4

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 21:40

I have seen Shell stickers on both rear flanks...but advertising was generally banned in Australie in that period

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 01 March 2015 - 21:43.


#9174 ProvaMO31

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:09

thanks for your answer

the stickers i spoke about were not on flanks, but on rear wing just little up to the rear lights and they are not Shell logo

the picture i have is from Tasman Longford 1968 and stickers look like green leaf inside yellow disk :well:


Edited by ProvaMO31, 01 March 2015 - 22:17.


#9175 GMACKIE

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:24

I think Loic means the ones in post # 8870, Mick.

 

 



#9176 ed holly

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:30

A mate of mine, Syd Wills gave me these ... no idea date, venue or who they are although I think Leo is in the second car, first picture.

 

Very very sad news this morning ... Ed

 

http://s1272.photobu...grvmng.jpg.html

 

http://s1272.photobu...wqnwbi.jpg.html

 

.


Edited by ed holly, 01 March 2015 - 22:34.


#9177 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:34

Both are KB in the Brabham-Alfa...

 

The first is leading Leo in the 39 at Oran Park, that would be 1968. The second is leading a crossed-up Max Stewart in his own Rennmax at Catalina Park's Dunlop Corner. Again, 1968, I'm not at home so I can't check actual meeting dates.



#9178 launchpad

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:49

To answer ProvaMO31, the yellow stickers on the P4 are a green cat on the yellow disc. The writing is "Catto Verde Maranello Modena" .

I don't have any other information unfortunately.



#9179 ProvaMO31

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 23:53

Thanks GMackie, that is exactly what i mean

 

Lauchpad, WELL DONE  ! :clap: and thank you so much for your information

So it is not leaf but a green cat ...

 

i found it with ....Google  :stoned:

in fact it is GATTO VERDE a famous restaurant in Maranello, existing since the end of 50's

 

http://www.casimages...12532853829.jpg

 

Guys! you are the best

 

now i just need to find an accurate picture of it  ( i mean , the sticker)

 

If someone have it , i will be really greatful to you

 

Actually, i am working on a personnal project for my collection,  rebuilding a 350P 1/18 scaled model , Tribute to Chris Amon

The basis from CMF is totally wrong and it is a lot a work to realize the car as the real one from 1968 

 

you could follow my work on this topic: ( sorry,  it is in french :| )

http://www.ferrari-m...opic.php?t=5958


Edited by ProvaMO31, Yesterday, 10:35.


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#9180 Ray Bell

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Posted Yesterday, 21:53

Have you found the 'Famous Amon' thread in the TNF archive?

Lots of Amon memories in there...

#9181 Ray Bell

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Posted Yesterday, 22:06

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
I have seen Shell stickers on both rear flanks...but advertising was generally banned in Australie in that period


The Ferrari raced here in the period during which advertising was permitted...

Jim Clark was flanked by 'Gold Leaf Team Lotus' logos as he won the Warwick Farm Tasman Cup race, for instance. 'Bardahl' and 'Wyong Motors' were painted loud and large on the winning car at Bathurst.

Not everyone had advertising on their cars, but it was allowed in that time. Formerly it had been restricted to the entrants' name in small letters.

#9182 rasimmo

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Posted Yesterday, 23:03

I think these are the ones prova means, on the rear up towards the top of the spoiler. Sorry I couldn`t find a better shot. Don`t apologise for you English, it`s a lot better than my French.

Bill Brown, Warwick Farm 5/5/1968 ( left hander after Shell Bridge.)

249%20B%20Brown%20wm.jpg

Simmo.


Edited by rasimmo, Yesterday, 23:22.


#9183 Ray Bell

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Posted Yesterday, 23:05

Originally posted by Repco22
Being a teenager and a pedestrian..... we recently drove around there, trying to identify houses and landmarks from old racing pics. I was surprised to discover that the main drag through the town, Throssell Street, was a part of the circuit.....


Is there any chance photos can go on the 'Collie Mystery' thread, Rod?