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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#1051 275 GTB-4

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 13:44

Originally posted by Ray Bell
There would be more if John Ellacott could master the business...

But don't worry, we'll get him there somehow. It would also be nice to see John Medley post some of his early fifties black and whites.


Mr Medley is a little too inconveniently far away (unless he was willing to drop off stuff at my place for processing some time)...but where is Mr Ellacott...if he is down this way...put him in touch with me and I we can get stuck into it :)

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#1052 HFJ Drifter

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 13:48

Originally posted by ken devine
The HRG is listed in Historic Racing Cars in Australia as a special model Brown and Durea i take it they must have been the importers.It first raced at Rob Roy in 1951, and seemed to have a successful racing carreer.
Jim Harwood bought it in 1958,it was raced by several different drivers until being bought by Kevin Lang
who still owns it.At one stage it was given a Peugeot transplant.


Does anybody know if the HRG has been rebodied back to standard? (sorry to hijack the thread a little)

#1053 Terry Walker

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 14:02

It was most likely imported into Australia as a chassis, then bodied here. There were huge import duties on built-up cars in those days, import licences required, and so on. The duty was far far less if the cars were bodied here. It's likely that the body on it is the original one, coachbuilt in this country. But I don't know for sure.

#1054 Shane Bowden

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 21:53

Originally posted by Terry Walker
It was most likely imported into Australia as a chassis, then bodied here. There were huge import duties on built-up cars in those days, import licences required, and so on. The duty was far far less if the cars were bodied here. It's likely that the body on it is the original one, coachbuilt in this country. But I don't know for sure.


The HRG's were imported as chassis by Tony Gaze for Brown & Dureau Ltd and bodied as "Woodside" sports models or "Bathurst" monoposto models.

My PRAD Holden is based around chassis W179 ("Bathurst" model) which was sold new Mischa Ravdell im Melbourne.

#1055 David McKinney

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 22:03

But other HRGs were imported as well, so the WA car is not necessarily one of the Brown & Dureau cars (though I think it is)

#1056 johnny yuma

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 00:28

trivia resurrection--Datsun 1200 motor I fitted to a Datsun 1000--both alloy head.Very light motor to lift--2 skinny blokes easy.My guess is the Bluebird motor is B-Series based,the 1000-120Y A-series based.

Bodgies morphed into Rockers whose name is English origin.Bodgie was an Australian name as in Bodgy job etc-a BODGIE was a dud human being.Ripple sole shoes and stovepipe pants pre date the Beatles fame,but if you look at early photos of Beatles before they were Beatles,they looked like Bodgies I recall from 1958 thru 1965-you know,Triumph motorbikes,Customlines,studded belts,Elvis haircuts.

Never ever saw the Teddy Boy velvet collar stuff around West Ryde or anywhere else in that era--but then again we never went to the Cross or whatever.

#1057 ken devine

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 00:49

I an pleased that you people are enjoying the photos from my collection that Terry is putting up,when i
finally remember howe to post them i will do more.i beleive in sharing our motorsport history i display
wherever i can mostly at historic racemeetings,i also have a large permanent display at the WA Motor Museum at Whiteman Park,you can also enjoy a selection on the WA Racing Museum website at
www.warm.org.au it is managed by Griffo.In the meantime i would encourage others to show their
collections.

#1058 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 01:42

Originally posted by johnny yuma
trivia resurrection--Datsun 1200 motor I fitted to a Datsun 1000--both alloy head.Very light motor to lift--2 skinny blokes easy.My guess is the Bluebird motor is B-Series based,the 1000-120Y A-series based.....


Not really... the 1200/1300/1500 series from Datsun were based on the A40 engine, which predated the B-series...

The 1000/1200/120Y etc engine, with alloy head, was much further removed from the British designs and not really like the A-series at all. For a start, as I said, it had bigger bores, so the block was longer.

#1059 Terry Walker

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 02:38

Looks like the T-circuit at Caversham, with broken off brushwood down the centre of the airstrip to separate eastbound from westbound traffic. There were very few T circuit meetings - 2 or 3 only, I think - which makes these very rare photos.

Caversham consisted of a north-south runway, with a dispersals road off to the east - the "D circuit" - plus two additional long runways to the West linking to the north and south ends of the main runway, sort of like this: XD. Thus you could have 3 circuits - the D to the right, a triangle to the left, and a T at the junction of the diagonal runways. All three were used, the T and the Triangle only rarely.

The Healey in the first photo has a Northam number plate and is probably Fred de Bonde. The Healey in the other pic has numberplate 212, which makes the driver Aub Melrose.

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Ken Devine's historic racing photo displays attract enormous attention, with the result that he gets remarks like this:

"You know, I've got some old slides somewhere I took of car racing at Narrogin . . . would they be any good to you?"

You can fill in your own reply. The pics I've been posting up for Ken lately are from two such encounters. My role has been mainly scanning and posting.

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#1060 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 02:53

Originally posted by Terry Walker
.....Ken Devine's historic racing photo displays attract enormous attention, with the result that he gets remarks like this:

"You know, I've got some old slides somewhere I took of car racing at Narrogin . . . would they be any good to you?"

You can fill in your own reply. The pics I've been posting up for Ken lately are from two such encounters. My role has been mainly scanning and posting.


I am so glad you and Ken found each other in this quest, Terry...

My thanks to both of you. Keep 'em coming!

#1061 Wilyman

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 03:05

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Two views of the spectator bridge before the last turn onto the straight at Caversham, 1957 ot thereabouts, and mid-60s . Today only the concrete abutments survive.

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Terry,
I wonder what present day CAMS track requirements would make of those bridge abutments ?

Ray,
I recall one of your previous queries about the Starcevich Cortina. Would the "shorty" front bumpers make it a Lotus Cortina ?

Gordon Stephenson's Alfa leading it onto the main straight?

PS. The b&w shot would be the pedestrian bridge after the main straight.

#1062 ken devine

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 03:13

The A90 made it to Caversham with it's prescious load.this overhead shot was taken from the timing
tower.No the guy top left of the photo isn't on a mobile phone.it is a pose which is most common now.




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#1063 Terry Walker

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 04:07

This is what the HRG looked like when it arrived in Western Australia. There were several Hurgs in this state at one time or another, including the HRG based Ryman Spl and the "Dave Gordon" HRG-Holden.

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#1064 cosworth bdg

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 04:33

Originally posted by kaydee
Great photos Terry and Ken - the quality (and the subjects) are superb!!!
I can't believe that this thread has generated over 1,000 responses and unearthed so many hidden gems!
Keep up the good work and hopefully it might encourage a few more people to dig out their old Australian motor racing pics and contribute.

Kaydee.

To every person on this forum, the photos and responses have been execellent & certainly has unearthed a lot of hidden gems & bought back a lot of memories from the past..

#1065 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 04:56

Originally posted by Wilyman
Ray,
I recall one of your previous queries about the Starcevich Cortina. Would the "shorty" front bumpers make it a Lotus Cortina ?

Gordon Stephenson's Alfa leading it onto the main straight?


Yes, Gordon Stephenson's Alfa I'm pretty sure...

No, not a Lotus Cortina. The GT500 ran in the 6-hour races while Stan ran his Holden, the GT500 looks the same as this car, they had the Anglia panel van front bumpers too.

#1066 Terry Walker

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 05:10

Immediately after the 62 AGP - the black stick in McLaren's hand is the chequered flag, which he drove around the circuit with on a lap of honour. Another Lyn Morgan (Nee Taylor) colour slide.


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#1067 HFJ Drifter

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 07:05

Originally posted by Shane Bowden


The HRG's were imported as chassis by Tony Gaze for Brown & Dureau Ltd and bodied as "Woodside" sports models or "Bathurst" monoposto models.

My PRAD Holden is based around chassis W179 ("Bathurst" model) which was sold new Mischa Ravdell im Melbourne.


Hello Shane, I've looked in the HRG Association's register and W179 is listed as being an Aero chassis exported to Brown and Dureau, and thats where the trail goes cold. Do you know much of its history?

#1068 David Shaw

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 07:23

Originally posted by Ray Bell
No, not a Lotus Cortina. The GT500 ran in the 6-hour races while Stan ran his Holden, the GT500 looks the same as this car, they had the Anglia panel van front bumpers too.


The GT500s as built by Harry had the usual full-width front bumper. These could have course been changed rather easily.

#1069 seldo

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 07:26

Originally posted by David Shaw


The GT500s as built by Harry had the usual full-width front bumper. These could have course been changed rather easily.

True - and often were

#1070 275 GTB-4

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 07:54

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Immediately after the 62 AGP - the black stick in McLaren's hand is the chequered flag, which he drove around the circuit with on a lap of honour. Another Lyn Morgan (Nee Taylor) colour slide.

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Bruce looks like he has half demolished a bottle of Fanta orange...does anyone know what the blazer patch is...looks possibley like a swan in the centre so could be a WA racing club?

#1071 ken devine

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 08:12

The pocket badge it wa sporting car club badge.probably Don Rieman who was the organiser.

#1072 ken devine

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 08:16

No not Ascari.it's Doug Green.

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#1073 David McKinney

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 08:25

Originally posted by HFJ Drifter
Hello Shane, I've looked in the HRG Association's register and W179 is listed as being an Aero chassis exported to Brown and Dureau, and thats where the trail goes cold. Do you know much of its history?

The late John Blanden's Historic Racing Cars in Australia has a break-down of the Brown & Dureau HRGs. I can dig it out if no-one answers Drifter's question first

#1074 Terry Walker

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 11:21

Closeup of the WASCC badge which they've used since Noah drew latrine duty on the Ark. No swan, but a vintage single seat racer.

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#1075 Terry Walker

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 07:53

Amazing though it may seem, this is very early Caversham, taken from the same place as the two photos a number of posts above, above showing the pedestrian bridge. Say 1956? This one shows the old shed which was demolished some time later.


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#1076 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:01

Are you sure it's not a demo of some brand new TFs, Terry...

I hope there's some Narrogin or Geraldton coming up soon.

#1077 Terry Walker

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:02

This airshot shows the bridge (green arrow) and the shed. Not much later the shed was gone.

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#1078 ken devine

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:33

This lineup at Narrogin in 52 or 53.From the John Napier Winch collection.three of the cars are still running
in WA historics.



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#1079 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:52

Not to mention the brand new Jaguar posemobile behind them...

Good one, Ken! Again... keep 'em coming!

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#1080 ken devine

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:03

The Jaguar was the Clerk of Course car,driven i believe by Ossie Cranston a well known pre war driver.
unfortunatly i dont have much on Geraldton.But Collie,Bunbury and Albany are coming up.

#1081 David McKinney

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:04

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Are you sure it's not a demo of some brand new TFs, Terry...

...with a Healey-bodied one in third place?

#1082 Terry Walker

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:19

Those MGs: MG TF No 31 is Ray Davies; behind him is No 20 MG TF, Bob Annear. There were 3 or 4 Healeys running at that time, can't tell which is the car in 3rd place. Probably 1954.

#1083 Shane Bowden

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 10:01

Originally posted by HFJ Drifter


Hello Shane, I've looked in the HRG Association's register and W179 is listed as being an Aero chassis exported to Brown and Dureau, and thats where the trail goes cold. Do you know much of its history?


G'day Drifter, if you care to go the Australian constructors thread, last page, there is some info on it as the "Testa Rossa" PRAD Holden and a time line of its history which is continuous.

Les Miller in Sydney has gathered together many original components of W179 other than the chassis and has reconstructed the car around a reproduction chassis.

#1084 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 11:20

Originally posted by David McKinney
...with a Healey-bodied one in third place?


Yes... mixed in with other cars, David...

Shame you have little on Geraldton, Ken. I hope something turns up one day. How about Northam, that was certainly iconic... or Dowerin?

#1085 cavvy

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 18:54

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Yes, Gordon Stephenson's Alfa I'm pretty sure...

No, not a Lotus Cortina. The GT500 ran in the 6-hour races while Stan ran his Holden, the GT500 looks the same as this car, they had the Anglia panel van front bumpers too.


Only from recollection but I understood the Starcevich Cortina was ex Geoghegan indeed a Lotus Cortina. Ended up being difficult to maintain & my last knowledge was it running as 'SL Cortina' by Noel Mitchell (?) with pushrod power.

The Starcevich colour scheme was unchanged from Geoghegans ?

The Stephenson Alfa looks pre the GTA.

#1086 David Shaw

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 21:34

I thought Geoghegan's Lotus Cortina went to George Garth, but I may be wrong there.

#1087 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 22:34

That's right, David, you are...

The Geoghegan Cortina GT went to George Garth, the Lotus Cortina went to Frank Leggatt, who succeeded in rolling it a couple more times before giving it away. It's now in the hands of Cortina collector Graham Mein in Ballina and being restored, and he bought it in Brisbane, so it's never been to the west.

cavvy... I have no doubt that Stan's car was a Lotus, or at least I'm not questioning it... what I'm saying is that the photo from the 6-hour and the one behind the Alfa seem to show the same car. Stan didn't run the Lotus Cortina in the 6-hour, but there was a GT500 running. Therefore, it is very likely that the car behind the Alfa and in the 6-hour picture is that GT500.

#1088 ken devine

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 23:23

In the 1966 6hr Don O'Sullivan ran a GT500 with Bill Downey as codriver Stan Starcevich drove his S4
Holden.

#1089 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 23:54

In 1967, however, Starcevich drove his Lotus Cortina...

So it is possible that the picture used earlier is from this race rather than '65 or '66.

#1090 Terry Walker

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 02:08

Lyn Morgan (Lyn Taylor as she then was) climbed onto the roof of the timing tower to get this shot of the start of the 1962 AGP. I've extracted an enlargement from it as well:

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My initial thought, given the small field, was that it was of one of the preliminary 10-lap heats, but Negus and Dunkerton were in different heats, so this is the GP start. You can see the turqoise Brabham, the dark green Coopers, Patto's white Cooper, the red Cooper and the red BRM Scarab, and following behind the red Repco Cooper of Negus, the green TS Spl of Ted Edwards, and the green Super 7 of Jeff Dunkerton.

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#1091 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 02:57

John Youl to the extreme right, Patterson off to a really good start alongside Stillwell with Davison behind them...

And there we have the last ever sports car to start in an AGP! It finished, too!

#1092 ken devine

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 08:50

Jack Brabham 1962 AGP.

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#1093 Wilyman

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:00

Ken,
Do you think Sir Jack went for an o/size rear tyre to compensate for a non available ratio choice?
The super long straight and the smooth flowing rear section of the Caversham circuit would have suited a higher ratio ?

PS. Have you got any early '60's Appendix J touring cars in your library, Simcas perchance ?

#1094 275 GTB-4

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:06

Originally posted by Terry Walker
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Looks like the meeting had the Royal imprimatur by the regal looking vehicle in its own compound....WA-GG??

#1095 Stan Patterson

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:13

In the Commonwealth of Australia a state does not have a Governor General..it has Governor.

In 1962 the Liberal Party was still Loyal and typically the ALP played by the rules..this was of course pre-1975.

I also remenmber the Dear Duke was in Perth in 1962 for the Commonwealth Games..

Amazing how many aussies only remember what they are told to remember....


Lets do GTHO

Stan

#1096 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:39

Ahh... the Menzies years...

Maybe Mick meant 'Gas Guzzler'?

#1097 Terry Walker

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 13:43

The then Governor of WA, Sir Charles Gairdner, was a motor sports enthusiast and Hon Patron of the WASCC.

A nice lwb Silver Wraith, by the way. Wonder where it is now?

#1098 bradbury west

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 13:57

Originally posted by Terry Walker
A nice lwb Silver Wraith, by the way. Wonder where it is now?


And there was I, Terry, thinking it was your previous Royce, which gave you a taste for them.

Roger Lund.
Thanks as ever for the pics and comments/info

#1099 Stan Patterson

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 14:03

Wherever it is..you can bet it is just scrap value compared to a red neck Yellow 1936 Ford Top loader or a Torana XU1 or a "Mofftang"


Stan

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#1100 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 19:47

Originally posted by Wilyman
Do you think Sir Jack went for an o/size rear tyre to compensate for a non available ratio choice?
The super long straight and the smooth flowing rear section of the Caversham circuit would have suited a higher ratio ?

PS. Have you got any early '60's Appendix J touring cars in your library, Simcas perchance ?


Need some subject matter for Aussiefrogs?

Those aren't oversize tyres at all... using 15" wheels while running the 2.7 engine, these were the tyres of the day. In F1 they were using 13" wheels.