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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#2051 Wilyman

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 01:38

Originally posted by plannerpower
I have corrected the spelling of "Osborne"; thanks, Kevin.

In fact, entirely serendipitously, I saw it spelled correctly in something I was reading this afternoon, came in to correct it and found that my error had been exposed to the world; ya gotta be quick (and correct) 'round 'ere! :)

The Cooper photo shows (or seems to show, as photos can deceive) the anti-Ackermann geometry that was popular around this time; the outside front wheel is turned-in more than the inside one, contrary to Ackermann's principle.

This was done because it was realised that the outside wheel was much more loaded than the inside one and, therefore, required a greater slip angle.


Plannerpower,
Your comment on the steering angles of the Cooper as being anti-Ackerman geometry is interesting.
It appears the Cooper geometry has reversed the Ackerman principle. The inside wheel should describe a tighter circle and the outer a wider circle.
This, to me would appear detrimental to the handling ability not only of the Cooper but of any car.
On cornering the outside front wheel would tend to "fall" over itself ?

It would be interesting to hear from one of the old Cooper fettlers.

OT. In speedway circles[?] midgets and sprintcars ignore the Ackerman principle in that both front wheels have a similar angle when turned.

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#2052 fines

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 09:06

Originally posted by Wilyman
OT. In speedway circles[?] midgets and sprintcars ignore the Ackerman principle in that both front wheels have a similar angle when turned.

I guess that's mostly because they are broadsided through the turns, so there's no need for "steering sophistication"! :D

#2053 plannerpower

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 09:19

On loose surfaces the rear of the car is well out in the breeze; therefore, in a LH turn, the steering is, in relation to the chassis, on substantial right lock but the wheels are pointing in the direction of travel.

A horse of a different hue when compared to circuit racing.

#2054 Wilyman

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 10:05

Originally posted by fines

I guess that's mostly because they are broadsided through the turns, so there's no need for "steering sophistication"! :D


fines,
I wonder what Mario Andretti's thoughts would be on your "no need for steering sophistication" ? :D

#2055 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 10:15

Originally posted by John Ellacott
I am coming down to Phillip Island for the weekend and hope to see some of you. My mobile is 0417 435 987 if anyone wants to get in touch.

Re the Mt. Druitt Start photo, the Alfa had gone to GMC truck power by then. The far car on the front row had not registered as being the Wheeler Fortune because I had thought of it as being red as it was later. The Don Wright Citroen is being driven by Ian Steele. Another red car which could be the one on the second row was the Peter Lovett Maserati 4 CL.....


Ian Steele? That surprises me, I understood he was an apprentice in the 1973/74 recce of the London-Munich event, when they ran out of fuel in the desert. Or is it a different Ian Steele?

.....Does anyone know what is happening with the Citroen since it made a brief appearance at the Tasman Revival 18 months ago.


Is it still owned by the guy in Mittagong (about half a mile from where I am at the moment!)? It's been sorely wasted for many years.

John also invited my comment on the Matich/Amon races that thrilled spectators during the 1968 Tasman Cup series in Australia... at least at the Surfers, Warwick Farm and Sandown rounds.

I didn't see the Surfers race, but recall the other two. They were at each others' throats for the most part... leading to me commenting many times on this forum about this incident:

Originally posted by myself
And now for the Peter Caldwell tangent...

You might recall that once, while watching Chris and Frank in their respective sporty cars, I saw them go each side of said Mr Caldwell's Tojiero Climax?

Well, I was talking to Bob last night... he's just back from Goodwood and was moved to say that Goodwood was 'as good as Warwick Farm...' and so I asked him what moment was the moment of all time in our tenure alongside the lake at the Farm.

"Oh, of course, Matich and Amon going each side of that slower car..."

So I mused about what Peter Caldwell might have to recall of that 'moment'... and decided it's high time we found him and asked him.

I mean, hear you are, racing as fast as your 1100cc Climax engine will take you through a sweeping ess bend and in your mirrors are a Ferrari and a Matich SR3. Then next thing you know you have one clipping the grass to your left and the other clipping the grass to your right as they head side by side into the braking area for the Causeway.

The guy's got to have some sort of comment!

Anyone know where he is?


Yes, it was like that. Bob would recall the Surfers race, I think he went there with Tom Ellery. The SR3 and the Ferrari were fairly evenly matched, and it's interesting that this was the first serious meeting of the two drivers since the 1962 Hordern Trophy race, when Frank beat Chris in the 1500 Elfin.

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
Posted Image

.....I also believe Ray Bell is in the background of the first shot.


I'm still not convinced. I agree, it looks like me, but what would I be doing with a tie, especially a tie like that? And what's in my right hand? I never smoked, and I don't see a camera. On top of that, I simply don't remember being there in that kind of situation. Gary Smith is there, however.

KB... would that be Greg there against the Alfa? And would that be Lyn Vincent's Fiat 500 in the background?

I was talking to Ron Thorp the other day too... his world is changing, his wife lost her leg recently, but he's still enthusiastic about cars, having a fair collection rotating at the Inverell Motor Museum and he recalls the days of the Cobra with great feeling. I must ask him what it was like to race a pre-war Ford V8 roadster at the Farm one of these days.

#2056 fines

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 10:33

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I'm still not convinced. I agree, it looks like me, but what would I be doing with a tie, especially a tie like that?

I believe that was the vogue, back then! :rolleyes: And don't worry, the tie of the guy next to the one with the shorts is definitely worse! :lol:

#2057 Jerry Entin

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 20:08

Michael: I don't know how in Vouge those ties were down under. I do know if you wore them to a place in Scottsdale, Arizona called "Pinnacle Peak Steak House" You wouldn't have to worry. They would cut them off you with a big sissors and hang them in a room. Here is there moto:
Welcome we hope to see you in the near future, but remember, "NO TIES ALLOWED!!"

Pinnacle Peak Patio is renowned for its delicious mesquite broiled steaks, casual western atmosphere, and its "NO NECKTIE POLICY." This "no necktie" tradition was started one night when a Phoenix executive came in for dinner. The original owner, wanting to keep the atmosphere in his restaurant casual, told the executive, "Either you take that tie off, or I'll cut it off." The executive did not take heed and was appalled when the owner pulled out a butcher knife and promptly cut off the offending cravat.

Wanting to be recognized as a victim of this absurd policy, the executive demanded that his tie be prominently displayed for all to see. The necktie was stapled to the rafters along with a business card identifying its victim. Pinnacle Peak is very serious about its "no necktie" policy and over the past 48 years has cut over a million ties from unsuspecting customers.




#2058 kevinbartlett

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 22:32

((I'm still not convinced. I agree, it looks like me, but what would I be doing with a tie, especially a tie like that? And what's in my right hand? I never smoked, and I don't see a camera. On top of that, I simply don't remember being there in that kind of situation. Gary Smith is there, however.))

((KB... would that be Greg there against the Alfa? And would that be Lyn Vincent's Fiat 500 in the background?))

Ray so many questions so little time. In my humble opinion that IS you in the pit lane shot, do you remember using a (fashionable at the time) mini recorder, and I remember seeing you with a tie.:lol: On your left, next to the guy scratching his bum, would be James Lang screech, then Pete Gethin (shirtless) Derek Kneller (Matich mech)

As regards the Bathurst Alfa shot of Terry Walker's

That is not my eldest son Greg as the shot was taken when he was just 4. He may be Steve Abbey, his dad Glenn obscured but standing next to me. However, the tall chap is my old mate Max Stewart (in shades) The guy on his right is a Mildren mech, Graham ???--- Lyn Vincent, a name that rings a bell. The late Alan's wife?

#2059 Dale Harvey

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 22:51

Posted Image

Jim Clark after winning the Warwick Farm Tasman round Feb. 3 1968

Posted Image

Jack Brabham same meeting.

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#2060 seldo

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 22:58

Originally posted by kevinbartlett
((I'm still not convinced. I agree, it looks like me, but what would I be doing with a tie, especially a tie like that? And what's in my right hand? I never smoked, and I don't see a camera. On top of that, I simply don't remember being there in that kind of situation. Gary Smith is there, however.))

((KB... would that be Greg there against the Alfa? And would that be Lyn Vincent's Fiat 500 in the background?))

Ray so many questions so little time. In my humble opinion that IS you in the pit lane shot, do you remember using a (fashionable at the time) mini recorder, and I remember seeing you with a tie.:lol: On your left, next to the guy scratching his bum, would be James Lang screech, then Pete Gethin (shirtless) Derek Kneller (Matich mech)

Don't worry Ray - we understand - if there was a shot of me wearing a tie like that I'd also deny, deny, deny!;) .......But I'm sure it's you too...;)

#2061 onelung

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 01:39

Alan Hamilton, Templestowe 1966. He was fairly HOOTING through here ... scary to watch.

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#2062 onelung

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 02:18

Jackie Stewart, Tasman series, Sandown '67

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#2063 onelung

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 03:46

Philip Island, Easter '68 .. in the paddock...
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... and on the scrutineer's table.
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#2064 onelung

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 04:08

The Nedloh, Calder 1966.
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It was for sale at the time, I recall - hence the tapes around the rear wheels holding the "for sale" placards.
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Almost as good as the Zephyr Special? ............... I did say "almost".

#2065 Gordon Graham

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 04:28

Isn't that the Nalla Holden? The Nedloh was much less sophisticated, built on an old Singer chassis.

Posted Image
By gjgraham

#2066 onelung

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 07:34

Ummm - I, er THINK there was/were a NedlohI followed by a Nedloh II.
By all means correct my memory if such is required.
Any piccies of the Nalla Holden out there in the ether to confirm?

#2067 fines

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 07:36

Originally posted by onelung
Posted Image

:rotfl:

That should teach me to finish my coffee before checking in on Atlas, now I need to clean my monitor... :(

#2068 Gordon Graham

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 07:54

Originally posted by onelung
Ummm - I, er THINK there was/were a NedlohI followed by a Nedloh II.
By all means correct my memory if such is required.
Any piccies of the Nalla Holden out there in the ether to confirm?


This is the Nalla at Eastern Creek in 2006, as raced by Henry Walker. Certainly a strong resemblance, but you're also right about there being a Nedloh 2 (after looking more closely at my pic and noticing "Nedloh 1")

Posted Image
By gjgraham

#2069 Stan Patterson

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 07:55

Speaking of facts...


The car Ron Thorpe is driving is an AC Cobra.....built by the AC Motor Company of Thames Ditton, Surrey. United Kingdom...

Small Point, but relevant given, that the muscle car barbarians are about to destroy next weekend's historic meeting .

Stan

#2070 David Shaw

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 08:16

Yes, it was manufactured by AC Cars in the UK. But I don't understand this tenuous link to next weekend's racing.

#2071 Bruce R Moxon

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 10:05

Originally posted by fines

:rotfl:

That should teach me to finish my coffee before checking in on Atlas, now I need to clean my monitor... :(


That's called a 'YOMANK' - as in 'You Owe Me A New Keyboard.' Or monitor in this case.



BM

#2072 Dale Harvey

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 22:42

Posted Image

I know this is not too difficult but, just for fun, who what when and where?

#2073 Bruce R Moxon

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 22:58

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
[/URL]

I know this is not too difficult but, just for fun, who what when and where?



I'll have a stab at it being a hillclimb somewhere. That front wing is a long way back, which is the only thing I have to go on. Other than that, I've got nothin'.


Bruce Moxon

#2074 fines

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 23:18

That "front wing" actually appears to be behind the front suspension!!! :confused:

#2075 sterling49

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 23:26

Originally posted by onelung
Philip Island, Easter '68 .. in the paddock...
Posted Image

... and on the scrutineer's table.
Posted Image


The Sunbeam, is it a Tiger? if so, I was not aware that a fastback (Harrington) was made, looks great though, we could have done with the spraycan repellent after every club night, when almost everyone took bends at ever increasing speeds.....it was a good job that "pigs never flew"......:lol:

#2076 David Shaw

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 00:00

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
I know this is not too difficult but, just for fun, who what when and where?


I'll take a guess at it being a McLaren M10B at Creek Corner.

#2077 onelung

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 01:33

Affirmative re the Tiger - an ex Le Mans car, I believe, with a fuel filler cap about the size of a small(ish) dinner plate. Here's another shot, albeit rather "contre jour".
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#2078 Leo D

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 02:06

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
I know this is not too difficult but, just for fun, who what when and where?


I going to put my vote in for it being
-Frank Gardiner
- Lola T192 (F5000)
-Warwick Farm 1971

#2079 eldougo

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 09:56

:wave:
Leo D.........I agree FG at the farm in a Lola.

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#2080 Prototype

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 10:44

Exiting Creek Corner, Warwick Farm - Frank Gardner, F5000 Lola 192 Chevrolet, Warwick Farm "International 100" February 1971 - Frank led from go to whoa and pulverized the opposition that day... and it was stinking hot.

#2081 David McKinney

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 10:55

Something a little different - Australia's first Formula Pacific race, Calder, 6/8/78
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#2082 Dale Harvey

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 22:59

Prototype, you are spot on!
Dale.

#2083 Dale Harvey

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 23:11

Posted Image

Warwick Brown Lola T332 Oran Park Tasman round 1974.

#2084 Dale Harvey

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 22:31

Posted Image

Niel Allen Elfin Traco Olds Catalina Park January 1969.

#2085 RStock

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 03:56

This threads too long to completely look over , so sorry if this has already been posted . These are not my photo's , but it is a site where folks can post their photo's and stories of Jack Brabham . Some interesting stuff there , not all Aussie , but most is . A cool shot of the Brabham transporter in there , I thought .

http://www.jack-brab.../yourstory.aspx

#2086 275 GTB-4

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 05:43

Originally posted by REDARMYSOJA
[B]This threads too long to completely look over , so sorry if this has already been posted .
/B]

Young Generation Y whippersnappers!! Click on the little "Printable Version" icon at the top of the thread and then it is easily searchable :wave:

#2087 Terry Walker

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 13:06

I thought "printable version" mainly applied to another forum and just deleted the expletives.

#2088 RStock

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 17:21

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Young Generation Y whippersnappers!! Click on the little "Printable Version" icon at the top of the thread and then it is easily searchable :wave:

Thanks , kind stranger . A very helpful hint that . I'm still getting used to the function of this board , which is quite different from others I've used .

That's help's the search , but there is still a lot on this thread to digest . I'll get around to giving it a good looksee sooner or later . My computer and I are getting old , I find myself drifting off if I don't keep moving . Had a nice little nap waiting on the printable version to load . :yawn:

And a couple more searching through it . :yawn: :yawn:

But I did find the link I provided had already been posted , not sure if I should edit it out or just leave it . :confused:

#2089 Dale Harvey

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 22:18

A few more from Catalina Park. Posted Image

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#2090 fines

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 07:32

Posted Image
What the heck is THAT?

A Vee with high wing struts????

#2091 Stan Patterson

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:47

For the first time in 17 years I could not raise the enthusiasm to make the pilgrimage to Phillip Island.

The efforts of VHRR to promote the narrow commercial interests of touring car racing has destroyed the essiential fibre of historic racing.

Instead we are told to be content with this garbage:

Dick Johnson Racing went from the "outhouse to the penthouse" on Sunday with Ford young gun Will Davison claiming his maiden V8 Supercar championship round victory at Sydney's Eastern Creek.

Courtney was in the wars again in race three when Holden's Paul "The Dude" Morris believed he'd been shunted out of the race.

It appeared Fabian Coulthard pushed Courtney into Morris, causing a chain reaction and a number of mid-field cars to spin out of control.

"(Courtney) picked the wrong bloke to mess with, so he'll keep," said Morris, who was voted by his peers as the dirtiest V8 Supercar driver in a magazine poll last year.

"I'll just keep it in the back of my head and one day when the opportunity arises I'll return the favour, no problems."


Do Australian's now accept this moronic drivel as anything more than the corrupt media inspired nonsense that it is, and as a result, do we now salivate over over-engined taxi cabs, as we search for symbols of our motor racing heritage?

To see the name Davison degraded in this way is unspeakably offensive to older Australians and quite frankly, brings shame upon us all.

I am not sure of the exact quote, but it goes along the lines of........"When good men do nothing, it is time to worry"

When will some Australians stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!


Stan

#2092 GD66

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:21

Stan, take it easy, mate. I don't see what relevance your shortage of enthusiasm for a gallop to Phillip Island (thus missing a decent dose of F5000s among other delights) has to do with a day at the V8s at Eastern Creek. If you don't like touring car racing, don't pay any attention to it. I've been to an historic motorcycle tuning day and didn't even realise they were on. Really mate, it doesn't make much more sense than those old ladies who ring up talkback radio to complain about television programmes they can't abide... "Yes, it was a disgrace, I watched the whole thing and it was terrible".... etc. Don't put yourself through the pain, mate, just pay them no heed. :)

#2093 Catalina Park

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:56

Were the Taxis racing today Stan? I never noticed. I just ignore them. They will go away eventually.

Great photos Dale, great to see more of my homeland.

Fines, I recall seeing photos of Niel Revell's Vee running a high wing at Bathurst in 1969, maybe he turned up at Catalina with the high wing and had to remove it? The mounts look similar but the body looks different.
I notice that the Matich SR4 does not have a wing so I would guess it was some time after Easter 69.

#2094 seldo

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 12:32

Originally posted by Stan Patterson
.......
When will some Australians stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

Stan

Couldn't have said it better myself Stan........ It was humorous for a while....Whilst we are very aware of your stance on the matter, ad nauseum, it is getting very tiresome....

#2095 Terry Walker

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 14:15

I'm sure there's a thread on Phillip Island Historics, and another one or two on motor racing in Australia in general, either one or all of which are where Stan's latest post belongs.

But not in this thread. It is the only one called "Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to 70's." This is a photo thread, not a "why oh why" thread. Let's keep it that way.

#2096 sterling49

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 18:19

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
A few more from Catalina Park. Posted Image


What is the car between the "S" and the Mustang? Is it some kind of Holden? :confused:

How come there were no Cortinas? What year was this? 1966..ish?
Those Minis did rather well to get so high up the grid though :clap:

#2097 David Shaw

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 21:47

That's a 1963 EH Holden on the front row. The fourth car behind the Mustang is a 1968 HK Holden Monaro, which helps with the dating. The Cortinas were well past their peak here by then.

Ian Geoghegan's '67 Mustang on the front row is the only frontline touring car that I can see and the Minis were always competitive at the tighter circuits here anyway.

#2098 cavvy

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 21:56

Originally posted by sterling49


What is the car between the "S" and the Mustang? Is it some kind of Holden? :confused:

How come there were no Cortinas? What year was this? 1966..ish?
Those Minis did rather well to get so high up the grid though :clap:


Sterling,
Brian Muir had success in 'that kind of Holden' before going to Europe. :up:

#2099 sterling49

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 22:15

That's the tool that "Yogi" learnt his trade in then,I saw him race many times over the years, a great driver. Sadly I was also at Silverstone on that, very saddest of days :cry:

if it was 1968, did nobody race Mk2 Cortinas? I am guessing that it was probably too early for the Anglia replacement, the Escort.

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#2100 Dale Harvey

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 22:24

The last lot of photos from Catalina were taken in January 1969.
Front row,
Ian Geoghegan (Mustang), Graham Ryan (EH Holden), Geoff Spence (Austin Cooper S)
Second row,
Ron Gillard (1100 Cooper S), John Millyard (1100 Cooper S)
Third row,
Herb Taylor (EH Holden), Russel Kramer ( Falcon)
Then following is Bob Morris (Toyota Corolla), Nick Petrilli (327 Monaro).

The formula vees are as follows
#4 Damon Beck, #3 Neil Revell, #11 Bernie Haehnle, # 10 Peter Finlay. Unsure about the one with the wing struts.
Dale.