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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#2151 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:32

Good to have you along...

I had a great chat with Alan, really enjoyed it. Was supposed to be an hour or so, we were there for over two. You know how it is.

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#2152 David Shaw

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:45

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GeoffR
[B]Not sure whether this is the right thread for these, but seeing as there are some other Phillip Island pics here already:

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No. 26 being Peter Strauss' Brabham BT6, and the Lotus 22 FJ is Jonathan Williamson

#2153 GeoffR

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 11:19

No. 26 being Peter Strauss' Brabham BT6



Of course, must have been going cross eyed when I named that one. Too many pics!!

#2154 David Shaw

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 11:44

Oh no Geoff, never too many! Thanks for posting these. Love the Cooper Bristol too.

#2155 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 11:57

Originally posted by onelung
Re the Valano: Yes a lengthened Milano with the 225 unit installed in a non-slanted (ie. upright) position to enable a lower bonnet line. I know you won't credit that, but that's the way it was. Like it or not.....


I took the liberty of posting your pic on another forum, onelung...

And here's a pic from that forum showing the engine:

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I'm much more inclined (huh?) to accept the explanation posted there that the original cant of the engine would have seen it foul the top chassis rail. It would have interfered with the driver's footwell too. There's no way that it could be lower when stood upright, but it's not much higher either.

I've long had a fascination for this story about engines being leaned over to make the bonnet line lower. The Peugeots had them like that for years, but the carby and air cleaners sat higher anyway! It's simply not the reason. There is an explanation about the slant 6 somewhere on the net, about it being half of a very successful V12 project that Chrysler did for a tank engine or something, that they found that 30° slant suited the engine in some ways.

On the Peugeot, when fitted in a LHD car as they were designed to do, it really does make maintenance easy. Everything fits with room to spare. Of course, this isn't quite so true with RHD versions.

As for those piccies of the cars at Phillip Island... wouldn't they be disqualified from this thread because the track surface has been Photoshopped?

#2156 Dale Harvey

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 23:27

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Peter Brock in the A30 at Oran Park Sept. 1968.

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I think this is from the same Sept. 1968 meeting. Bob Muir Lotus 23B leading followed by Glynn Scott Lotus 23B and then Fred Gibson Elfin Traco, Max Brunninghausen Alfa, Peter Wallace Cicada and Hoot Gibson Jnr. Lotus 15.

#2157 Terry Walker

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 01:28

Race Sunday, sell Monday . .

The concept is old as motor racing itself. The first of these 2 pics is from 1931 and slightly OT, but topether they make a fine pair.

The first is a display in the window of the P W Armstrong dealership in Perth publicising the merits of Eric Armstrong's tiny Triumph Imp racer and of course reflecting glory on the production model. (Picture courtesy Armstrong family)

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The second is of the Winterbottoms showroom in Perth publicising the successes of the Austin Lancer (an Australian BMC variant of the Wolseley 1500). The right hand placard declares that the car raced the 1958 Six Hour Race nonstop - no fuel or tyre stops - covered nearly 378 miles, and won the sedan car class against all comers. (The outright winner was a sports car.)

The left card celebrates the Lancer's success at Albany in the hillclimb (1600 class) and winning the sedan race around the houses. The car shown was not the actual car, in all liklihood. (Picture courtesy the late Dick Blythe, PR manager of Winterbottoms, the car's driver on botn occasions.)

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#2158 Twin Window

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:48

Originally posted by Terry Walker

...the Austin Lancer (an Australian BMC variant of the Wolseley 1500)

That's a new one for me!

Great photos, Terry... :up:

#2159 plannerpower

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 08:05

An Austin Lancer is the Answer!!!!

One of these was my second car, following a Morris Oxford Series MO sidevalve.

The Lancer was a fine car for its time; I fitted enormous wide rims (well, 4 1/2 inches from an Austin Freeway :) ) and the Lancer-On-Rollers (as it was dubbed) won my club's Gymnkana & Club Championships over forty years ago.

The Series 1 Lancer, which I had, had a high (for the time) rear-axle-ratio; 3.7 iirc.

BMC fitted a much lower ratio to subsequent series; it changed them from a sporty car to a triffid-mobile.

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#2160 Terry Walker

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 09:15

This is a shot of Dick Blythe in the Lancer in the 1958 Six Hour Race. You can tell by the huge grin on his face that he was having a heap of fun.

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#2161 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:06

Originally posted by plannerpower
.....The Series 1 Lancer, which I had, had a high (for the time) rear-axle-ratio; 3.7 iirc.

BMC fitted a much lower ratio to subsequent series; it changed them from a sporty car to a triffid-mobile.


Showing your Tuckey readership there, mate!

The Series I Lancers, Majors and Wolseley 1500s had a 3.73:1 (11 x 41 IIRC) rear end. In the Series II cars (wonder if the Poms got them?) they used a 4.1:1 (9 x 37?) ratio in a cast iron housing, then in the Major Elites (with 1600cc of raw power!) they put a heavier hemisphere in them and used fine spline axles. They had already changed the wheel bearing fitment in the Series II axles, fitting a spacer beside the bearing to allow room for a thicker bearing retaining nut on the axle.

In fact, this was all a waste of time. The broken axles they were suffering in the Series Is was caused by the lousy lever shocks letting the wheels skip about over rough surfaces. Then when they toughened up things in the Series IIs the hemispheres broke as well as the axles. So the stronger axles and stronger hemispheres should have solved it, while the Armstrong telescopic shocks should have helped as well. But the fine splines were overkill, axles didn't break, just the hemispheres. You could buy aftermarket steel hemispheres for them.

3.9s were a special Sprite option, 10 x 39, but some found their way into these cars as production was finishing up.

#2162 Towil

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 21:54

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Good to have you along...

I had a great chat with Alan, really enjoyed it. Was supposed to be an hour or so, we were there for over two. You know how it is.


Thanks Ray, I've been entertained by this Forum for some time now. It's very addictive; I must get around to posting in 'Introduce yourself'.

I sure do know how it is with Al. A few years ago I was working with him on his concept for an affordable, entry-level sportscar that was Toyota powered. This started mainly as a weekend hobby thing, but the design phase took twice as long as it should have, as half the time was taken up with me wanting to hear the many an interesting story he has to tell to a racing enthusiast....... :clap:

...including about Neil Allen's tremendous natural ability versus Matich's studious application and continous development etc.....Right up your alley I suspect.

I'm in contact relatively often so I'll ask him about the 906 next time.

Cheers,
Todd Willing

#2163 Dale Harvey

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 22:47

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Denis Cribbin Lotus 7 practice for night meeting at Oran Park Dec 1968.

#2164 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 22:59

Originally posted by Towil
.....I sure do know how it is with Al. A few years ago I was working with him on his concept for an affordable, entry-level sportscar that was Toyota powered. This started mainly as a weekend hobby thing, but the design phase took twice as long as it should have, as half the time was taken up with me wanting to hear the many an interesting story he has to tell to a racing enthusiast......


That was a good concept, I saw it during its embryonic stages... shame it never went ahead...

.....including about Niel Allen's tremendous natural ability versus Matich's studious application and continous development etc.....Right up your alley I suspect.

I'm in contact relatively often so I'll ask him about the 906 next time.


Good idea...

Yes, we reached the subject of Niel Allen's ability vs Frank's constant testing. I think I threw in the thought that Frank was getting closer to his 'use by' date when Niel came along, that might be relevant.

And the number of sway bars and brake pads?

Good grassy pic of Suttons Corner, Dale... though it was 'Robin Orlando' then, wasn't it? Any of the Hustlers?

#2165 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 23:01

Originally posted by Ray Bell



The Series I Lancers, Majors and Wolseley 1500s had a 3.73:1 (11 x 41 IIRC) rear end. In the Series II cars (wonder if the Poms got them?) they used a 4.1:1 (9 x 37?) ratio

............. NOTA Sportsman # 46 had a 3.73:1 also had a spare Morris Major 4.22:1 [ 9 x 38 ].......

#2166 plannerpower

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 23:36

"Showing your Tuckey readership there, mate!"

I wondered if any erudite person would pick that up.

And, in any case, the erudition of an Australian who can quote from a Kendall work other than "Bellbirds" must be admired!

:)

#2167 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 23:37

Originally posted by fines
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What the heck is THAT?

A Vee with high wing struts?


Terry Boom in a Mk 1 Rennmax Vee, the same as the car leading this bunch... though the nose seems different...

Information from Damon Beck, who was there.

Originally posted by seldo
Ray is probably the best man for this one but can anyone cast any light on an MG Midget fast-back hardtop that I seem to recall was a local "works" car driven by Foley and/or Skelton? I think it had a sort of chopped-off "kamm" tail and looked a bit like a shrunken Ferrari 250 GTO ( that's a very loose and sacriligeous description...)


Not always, David... (who was also there)...

I don't actually remember the chopped off tail. But I remember Skelton racing the thing, and I probably saw it at the 12-hour race too.

Patrick... I think you've triggered my memory banks to correct myself. Yes, Major Series IIs and Elites were 4.222 (9 x 38), but otherwise as described.

#2168 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 23:42

Originally posted by plannerpower
"Showing your Tuckey readership there, mate!"

I wondered if any erudite person would pick that up.

And, in any case, the erudition of an Australian who can quote from a Kendall work other than "Bellbirds" must be admired!


I wouldn't have been alone...

But you've done well too. Now... where does this come from?

"Where the splendid mountains glow,
That only God and sunrise know."

Yeah, I know, often I sit looking back to a childhood, mixt with the sights and the sounds of the wildwood...

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Unfortunately I can't add "with glimpses of Healeys and a vision of Altas"!

Back with more from Ron later.

#2169 Gordon Graham

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 23:58

Originally posted by Terry Walker
This is a shot of Dick Blythe in the Lancer in the 1958 Six Hour Race. You can tell by the huge grin on his face that he was having a heap of fun.

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Ah, yes, the Dick Blythe Lancer, which I knew well at one stage. My dad, who had no interest in motor sport, got suckered by Winterbottom Motors into buying it as the family transport, his suspicions not aroused by the single hessian lap-belt and the added on oil pressure gauge. He only found out what he'd bought when a workmate (a VW racer whose name escapes me) identified it. It was absolutely clapped out, and he got rid of it soon after (for a later model Morris Major, which wasn't much better)

#2170 plannerpower

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 00:14

I am not certain that your quote is correct.

(I cheated and looked it up!).

But back to photos; My previous postings concerned open-wheelers at Bathurst, Easter 1963; here are the sports cars (with one interloper missed from the previous set);

Bill March (Lotus 7);

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Dick Newell (Buckle);

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G. Phipps (XK120); no doubt appreciating his car's cubic inches (and long stroke) on this part of the Mountain;

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J. Hills brought his Lotus XI;

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but seemed to have problems with the dreaded sideslip;

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This could be either of the Howard freres in the Nota MG; I think that the program may have listed either as driver;

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Ken (Pedro) John (E-Type);

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Either Mike Crampton or Brian Lawler (Buckle);

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Ron Thorpe (DB3S) leads G. (Greville?) Egerton (Cooper Jaguar);

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and W. Nicholson (Morgan);

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Next instalment; the tintops!

#2171 David Shaw

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 07:30

You're right, it's Greville Edgerton in the Cooper T33 and Joe Hills in the Lotus Eleven, probably on debut.

#2172 Wilyman

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 09:32

Ray,
A friend had me look up rear axle ratios on the Major/Lancer/ Wolseley etc. He reckoned they could be adapted to the MG TC ? Apparently the TC tended to be a bit busy on the open road with its original ratio. I don't recall anyone being concerned about this in the olden days?

The "sloper engine" introduced on the Peugeot 404 was, according to their glossy brochure, claimed to lower the bonnet line of the Farina body.

As for under bonnet access to the Peugeot engine. They did get it right not like the Valiant with all the ancilliaries buried under the slope.
The Peugeot 404 engine would have been a little busier on the LH drive version with its brake booster and clutch m/cyl.

PS. Report from Bob Pinkerton on his latest days out at Philip Island. Improved times with the "Belchamp Peugeot Special". Up on revs, the power band higher up now with the Webers re-choked and jetted.
Grateful to the local TAFE boys for exhaust repairs, slip joint plate broke off. Also a cracked brake pipe flare noticed while in the pits. All vibration related ?

#2173 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 20:57

Originally posted by Wilyman
Ray,
.....The "sloper engine" introduced on the Peugeot 404 was, according to their glossy brochure, claimed to lower the bonnet line of the Farina body.

As for under bonnet access to the Peugeot engine. They did get it right not like the Valiant with all the ancilliaries buried under the slope.
The Peugeot 404 engine would have been a little busier on the LH drive version with its brake booster and clutch m/cyl.....


The brochure was PR and that was all...

Measuring from the crankshaft centreline to the top of the ribs across the rocker cover, the engine in an upright position would have been 16" high. At 45°, due to the width of the head, this comes down to 15" or a little more. But the inlet tract is actually higher, and the manifold has to run downhill into it. As I said, the carby is the highest part... well, the air cleaner or ducting therefrom is.

My point about the LHD version was that leaning the engine over gave plenty of room for the master cylinder, the gear linkages (column change) and steering column. It might have been 'busier', but you could get around all of these things and see what you were doing.

Same problem with the Valiant... it was designed for LHD, then had to have the steering column stuck underneath it. What else is under there, by the way? And did you know the two engines share a common part?

If Peugeot had been serious about lowering the engine for bonnet clearance purposes, they need only have fitted a single SU (or some other side draught carby) and saved four or five inches.

#2174 Macca

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:24

Does anyone have a a colour photo of Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 39 when it still had the Climax 4 in it (before the Repco) - was it white with green stripes then as later?

Paul M

#2175 Dale Harvey

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:41

Ray, I think this is about it for the Hustlers. Heading for the Northern Crossing at Warwick Farm.

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#2176 David Shaw

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:46

I'm sure that it started in the Total red and blue stripes before changing to the Castrol green stripe Paul. This photo confirms the initial Total livery.
http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

#2177 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:46

Originally posted by Macca
.....Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 39 when it still had the Climax 4 in it (before the Repco) - was it white with green stripes then as later?


No, it had the Total colour scheme... but they also put a black line around the opening at the front...

Check the early pics of Matich's 19B from John Ellacott to see how that was... the blue, white and red stipes up the sides of the car, white bodywork. Very neat looking car the entire time Leo had it.

Without checking, I don't know for sure, but Leo went to the Castrol scheme at the beginning of '67 and I think the Climax was still in it at the time.


Yes, Dale, that's Tony Oxley in the car I later ran, not sure who's tucked in behind, probably Peter Wilson, maybe even Ron Kearns (seldo?), then it looks like Bob Martin in his own Hustler.

#2178 seldo

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 14:43

Originally posted by Ray Bell


....
Yes, Dale, that's Tony Oxley in the car I later ran, not sure who's tucked in behind, probably Peter Wilson, maybe even Ron Kearns (seldo?), then it looks like Bob Martin in his own Hustler.

Sorry Ray - I can't help...

#2179 Dale Harvey

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 22:27

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Graham McRae in the GM2, Oran Park Tasman Round 1974.

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#2180 onelung

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 04:15

Ray: a 12 cylinder Alta? Tell us more about the engine, please. Very intriguing indeed.

#2181 Terry Walker

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 05:45

QUOTE: Ah, yes, the Dick Blythe Lancer, which I knew well at one stage. My dad, who had no interest in motor sport, got suckered by Winterbottom Motors into buying it as the family transport, his suspicions not aroused by the single hessian lap-belt and the added on oil pressure gauge. He only found out what he'd bought when a workmate (a VW racer whose name escapes me) identified it. It was absolutely clapped out, and he got rid of it soon after (for a later model Morris Major, which wasn't much better)

There was a B J Lemon racing VWs in 1958.

#2182 plannerpower

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 05:54

The Alta appears to have the right-hand-side exhaust (including heatshield) that was usual;


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#2183 Gordon Graham

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 07:22

Originally posted by Terry Walker
QUOTE: Ah, yes, the Dick Blythe Lancer, which I knew well at one stage. My dad, who had no interest in motor sport, got suckered by Winterbottom Motors into buying it as the family transport, his suspicions not aroused by the single hessian lap-belt and the added on oil pressure gauge. He only found out what he'd bought when a workmate (a VW racer whose name escapes me) identified it. It was absolutely clapped out, and he got rid of it soon after (for a later model Morris Major, which wasn't much better)

There was a B J Lemon racing VWs in 1958.


Brian Lemon was the namethat was escaping me

#2184 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:49

I'm afraid poor Ron wasn't sufficiently familiar with the cars...

He might well have captioned it as a V12, but we all know it was only ever a 4-banger. Mind you, in later days it had a Healey engine and a Peugeot front end... but Graeme took care of all that in time.

#2185 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 22:04

Originally posted by Twin Window
That's a new one for me!

Great photos, Terry...


From the small but growing collection of Ray Bell photos of cars in the '08s... here's the evolutionary frontal treatment of the final version of that upright sedan of the fifties, the 1962-64 Morris Major Elite:

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#2186 GeoffR

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 01:59

Is this the same Alta as pictured above?

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#2187 ken devine

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 03:30

That Major looks like it's lowered Ray.Or has the suspension sagged?Show us more of yours and i'll show
mine.

#2188 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 03:48

Originally posted by ken devine
That Major looks like it's lowered Ray. Or has the suspension sagged?Show us more of yours and I'll show
mine.


Mate, how would I know?

I just take the pictures, the people in the front are probably too heavy and the brakes are on, would that do it?

As for the Alta, you'll need someone more well-versed in them than I am to get that answer, Geoff...

#2189 ken devine

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 04:05

With an answer like that i am sorry i commented.

#2190 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 04:45

Please don't be...

I just needed to tell you I don't know anything about the car, it was just passing by and I snapped it.

#2191 john medley

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 04:58

The red Alta appeared at the Phillip Island parade 10 days ago after a usual impeccable rebuild by Graeme and Betty Lowe. This is a car they bought in the 1970s, to supplement the black 1100cc sports car which was immediately prewar the car brought to Australia by Allan Sinclair, and the sparkling green 2 litre originally raced by Johnny Wakefield and Tony Gaze and sold a decade ago to the USA. This last is the car shown on this forum on the grid at Rob Roy

#2192 GeoffR

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 05:05

Thanks John. My pic was taken at PI.

#2193 rx-guru

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:50

:wave: Hi Aussies! Are there any pics from the days of "down under Rallycross" available? Peter Brock and his Torana GTR beast and/or others…?

#2194 GD66

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 09:20

Dale, thanks for the McRae pix, and don't think that the ensuing silence means people have forgotten. To me, he remains one of the most brilliant but tortured stars of his era, where a long list of stunning forays in the racing world, punching above his weight and getting the results, meant nought if your face didn't fit. Yes, his Cassius nickname was probably earned, but his accomplishments as a driver/constructor were outstanding at the time, and still stand up to scrutiny today. Any insights with perspective to add from the day, David ? You were there, and closer than most....

#2195 275 GTB-4

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:09

Originally posted by GD66
Dale, thanks for the McRae pix, and don't think that the ensuing silence means people have forgotten. To me, he remains one of the most brilliant but tortured stars of his era, where a long list of stunning forays in the racing world, punching above his weight and getting the results, meant nought if your face didn't fit. Yes, his Cassius nickname was probably earned, but his accomplishments as a driver/constructor were outstanding at the time, and still stand up to scrutiny today. Any insights with perspective to add from the day, David ? You were there, and closer than most....


I was around, and agree that McRae was a star amongst a local constellation...as a fan, I certainly felt nothing but admiration for all the drivers at the time...and the kiwi thing wasn't really and issue.

#2196 Dale Harvey

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 22:25

Well, fellas,here is another of McRae and Max Stewart. Oran Park 1974. Sorry about the clarity.

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#2197 normbeechey

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:16

There is something for everone on this page (Rallycross as requested above, and Graham McRae)
http://members.tripo...970s_page_4.htm

Note that you may have to manually 'copy' and then 'paste' the web address onto your web browser address bar.

#2198 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:59

Originally posted by normbeechey
There is something for everone on this page (Rallycross as requested above, and Graham McRae)
http://members.tripo...970s_page_4.htm

Note that you may have to manually 'copy' and then 'paste' the web address onto your web browser address bar.


And you can only do that if you click on 'quote' because the BB software abbreviates the link...

However, if you right click on it and then left click on 'Open in new window' (or tab) it works fine too.

#2199 Terry Walker

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 03:08

Not quite rallycross - an autocross at Mandurah in the early 70s, with a lot of the rally crowd taking part. It was conceived as a tightly twisting rally special stage. The area today is expensive housing.

Light Club Club of WA president Geoff Penn in his Mad Max model Falcon hardtop

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Greg George low-flying his Mini over the artifical yump

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Ross Dunkerton before he was famous

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Renault 10 demonstrating swing-axle tuckunder...

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Mini rally car - not sure who.

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#2200 normbeechey

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 06:08

I use Internet Exployer an I can simply click on the link and it works fine. Are you on one of those orphaned Macs? :)

BTW rx-guru, the Brock rallycross Torana is on that page albeit in a "one-off" drive on the Calder circuit.

http://members.tripo...na_Calder_1.jpg


Originally posted by Ray Bell


And you can only do that if you click on 'quote' because the BB software abbreviates the link...

However, if you right click on it and then left click on 'Open in new window' (or tab) it works fine too.