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Personal photos of Australian motor racing '50s to '70s


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#4051 fredeuce

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 23:52

It is a Simca, dont know if it is the same car as it seems a darker color.
Great photos Lynton, please keep them coming.


Lee, I thought the same as you at first but then look at the VW, it too looks darker in pic 6 so I think the variation in tone is more to do with light conditions and camera settings than anything else. Further, you can just make out the number 72 on pic 8. Same number as in pic 6.

Really enjoying these old black and white pics Lynton . Look forward to the next instalment.

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#4052 seldo

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 00:36

Ray , I have to disagree on the identity of that car. I believe it to be the same Simca as depicted from the rear in the eigth pic. I believe the only mods to the front are the removal of the grille and the guard flares. Also the lights look standard to me.

I agree Fred. The confirming detail being the unusual detail of the turret-rain-gutter which runs right down to meet the front guards

#4053 lyntonh

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 02:22

Post it, giving the reference to where it is...

The yellow and black Mini has 'Jack Hayward Smash Repairs' (or is it 'Haywood'?) on it, that indicates Lynn Brown, I think. The Torana No 28 is probably Ron Gillard in the Pat Peck car. The Imp is Harry Lefoe, isn't it? And the VW Darrilyn Huitt?


My shot.....
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And then seconds later...

Ian Field (in the brown top with his hand up over his eyes, watching the trio), & yours truly (with the khaki hat & the camera resting on the fence,
but looking back down the track ready for the next group of cars.) (Obviously, I added the oval.)
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The photo is from a Castrol promotional insert in Sports Car World (Nov 1971).
I kept, & still have, eight inserts featuring Bob Jane, John Roxburgh, Bert Rydberg (Manager AMI Racing Team),Evan Green,
Brian Foley, Bob Watson, Harry Firth & Leo Geoghegan.

And, yes Ray, I did buy RCN to get the race reports!!


#4054 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 03:10

My shot.....
Posted Image

And then seconds later...

Ian Field (in the brown top with his hand up over his eyes, watching the trio), & yours truly (with the khaki hat & the camera resting on the fence,
but looking back down the track ready for the next group of cars.) (Obviously, I added the oval.)
Posted Image
The photo is from a Castrol promotional insert in Sports Car World (Nov 1971).
I kept, & still have, eight inserts featuring Bob Jane, John Roxburgh, Bert Rydberg (Manager AMI Racing Team),Evan Green,
Brian Foley, Bob Watson, Harry Firth & Leo Geoghegan.

And, yes Ray, I did buy RCN to get the race reports!!

That Torana was so well presented in its early days, it just looks so right. Though very sad these days.

#4055 Wirra

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 04:25

... do you have ...? Piers Courage, for instance, in the bi-wing Brabham? Derek Bell in the Ferrari?...


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#4056 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 09:19

The wing pressing directly down on the suspension is really truly frightening. Impossible to tune the suspension properly and cross winds, turbulence would have the car floating everywhere. Little wonder it was banned.
In the early 70s a couple of Sprintcars tried the wings direct on the suspension for a very short period. They were near undriveable!! Put the wing back on the chassis all probems solved.

#4057 brucemoxon

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:14

Roger, Aussie Sports Sedans were much modified even in those days. Often not the original engine at all. The Simca is quite possibly powered by something bigger, a Holden 6 was common. The VW has a water pumper of some sort, it has a radiator up front.



That's Pat Crea's VW, which Darrylin Huitt drove on occasion. It was VW-powered, I'd say that's an oil cooler.

I reckon I'll be in one or more of those pics too - aged nine!

I'll say it again Lyton - great photos - keep posting, please.



Bruce Moxon

#4058 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:23

Lee... I have to say you'd be wrong in much of that...

The reason the suspension-mounted wings were banned was because of the stresses they had to endure because they weren't isolated from the vibrations the road would pump into the wheels.

The Lotus 49s and the Brabhams with them were very successful.

Now... about the misunderstanding of my comment about the Holden. Yes, I was talking about the Holden, and it must have been because I had some inferior glasses on (mine broke!) or something. The Simca was a given, I knew it back and front, though I'm pretty sure it didn't have a Holden engine. Someone please produce a programme!

But I was wrong about the Holden at the back of that bunch, it wasn't an FJ with later lights and grille, it was an FE. You could tell it wasn't the Simca I was talking about when I referred to it as it was a separate paragraph.

And Peter, your Friday arvo shots from the Farm are great!

#4059 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 12:06

I will beg to differ on suspension mounted wings. They were only around for a very short period.
My suggestion of a Holden in the Simca is just that. But unlikely to be a Simca engine in a race car and Holdens were not an uncommon conversion. As the Simcas had fairly good suspension and a long engine bay and were fairly light they were a good basis for a Sports Sedan with more power. And Holdens were cheap power. Plenty of engines would have worked as well or better.

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#4060 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 21:17

That's right, the suspension-mounted wings were only around until they were banned...

That happened after the Spanish GP of 1969.

#4061 lyntonh

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:23

I will beg to differ on suspension mounted wings. They were only around for a very short period.
My suggestion of a Holden in the Simca is just that. But unlikely to be a Simca engine in a race car and Holdens were not an uncommon conversion. As the Simcas had fairly good suspension and a long engine bay and were fairly light they were a good basis for a Sports Sedan with more power. And Holdens were cheap power. Plenty of engines would have worked as well or better.


Maybe a long shot...?

I have ONE programme left, from all the ones I once had.

It's from Oran Park National Open Night Meeting Dec 14 1968.

In the Sports Sedan races there is a white Simca, entered by Barnard Auto Spares, driven by Lindsay Derriman, with a 3687 motor.



#4062 lotcor

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 00:17

Maybe a long shot...?

I have ONE programme left, from all the ones I once had.

It's from Oran Park National Open Night Meeting Dec 14 1968.

In the Sports Sedan races there is a white Simca, entered by Barnard Auto Spares, driven by Lindsay Derriman, with a 3687 motor.



I know of a simca sports sedan with a holden engine sitting in a shed in far western Victoria. Not the same car as above.

#4063 seldo

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 00:23

Maybe a long shot...?

I have ONE programme left, from all the ones I once had.

It's from Oran Park National Open Night Meeting Dec 14 1968.

In the Sports Sedan races there is a white Simca, entered by Barnard Auto Spares, driven by Lindsay Derriman, with a 3687 motor.

A very good steerer and engineer is Lindsay. Probably best known for having been brave/silly enough to race a brakeless Dodge Phoenix at Bathurst. I understand he went on to design/invent the ceramic brakes that we know today. At one stage I traded from him a Fiat 850 Sport in which he'd done a beautiful job of installing a Fiat 1500 engine and VW transmission, front radiator etc. Clever man.

Edited by seldo, 01 October 2010 - 00:25.


#4064 ellrosso

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:35

I think the Derriman Simca had a Valiant motor in it from memory (RCN classifieds). I've got a shot on site from Amaroo in late '67 of another racing Simca Aronde next to the rolled Ancich Fiat Abarth - doesn't look like a SRC car though (looks pretty standard bar widies).
Wonder where Lindsay's brake marker was down Conrod Seldo? Probably about half way I'd imagine!

#4065 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:42

Maybe a long shot...?

I have ONE programme left, from all the ones I once had.

It's from Oran Park National Open Night Meeting Dec 14 1968.

In the Sports Sedan races there is a white Simca, entered by Barnard Auto Spares, driven by Lindsay Derriman, with a 3687 motor.

Falcon,, Slant6?

#4066 Wirra

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:24

... your Friday arvo shots from the Farm ...

Ray et al. I know over the years I've misplaced many slides or 'borrowers' have purloined them, but I'm very disappointed I have none of Jochen Rindt. Is there any record of him attending the Friday sessions?

#4067 SJ Lambert

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:53

Here's one of Henk Woelders, possibly taken shortly after Jochen's final accident. Henk says that shortly after this shot was taken the wings came off cars in Oz......

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#4068 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 13:23

High wings, and specifically wings mounted on the suspension, were long gone when Jochen Rindt was killed...

Just think, have you ever seen a picture of a Lotus 72 with a high wing?

That pic of Henk Woelders would have been no later than April 1969, the ban applied in Australia within days (or maybe weeks) of its application Internationally. The US held on for a little longer.

Lee... if you recall, for a period there was at least talk of Sports Sedans having to have engines from the same manufacturer as the body. For that reason, it's most likely that a Simca with a 3.7-litre engine has a slant 6.

Some strange cars came out of that period. There was more than one Falcon-engined Anglia, the Marina with a P76 V8, that sort of thing.

#4069 bradbury west

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:15

Yes, Roger, that is a Simca Aronde and they went pretty hard till something broke. I don't see any Lancers there.



What is the (half) car on the inside of the VW , Ray?
RL

#4070 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:06

Originally posted by bradbury west
What is the (half) car on the inside of the VW, Ray?


More clearly seen (but still not all visible) in the front-on shot, Roger, it's an FC ('58 - '59) Holden standard model (which lacked much of the chrome trim.

#4071 bradbury west

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 17:39

Ray, many thanks
RL

#4072 David McKinney

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 18:53

it's an FC ('58 - '59) Holden standard model (which lacked much of the chrome trim.

Wasn't that the model they called Business (meaning taxi business, I suspect)?


#4073 David Shaw

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 20:32

Eskimut would probably know better than anyone, as I believe his 48-215 is a very rare Business model.
The Business model I believe was slightly different to the Standard, as it had a rail behind the front seat (for taxi use), grab handles on the doors and a few minor mechanical mods, but from the outside they are hard to pick.

#4074 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 21:34

High wings, and specifically wings mounted on the suspension, were long gone when Jochen Rindt was killed...

Just think, have you ever seen a picture of a Lotus 72 with a high wing?

That pic of Henk Woelders would have been no later than April 1969, the ban applied in Australia within days (or maybe weeks) of its application Internationally. The US held on for a little longer.

Lee... if you recall, for a period there was at least talk of Sports Sedans having to have engines from the same manufacturer as the body. For that reason, it's most likely that a Simca with a 3.7-litre engine has a slant 6.

Some strange cars came out of that period. There was more than one Falcon-engined Anglia, the Marina with a P76 V8, that sort of thing.

It appears the Woelders car has a chassis mounted high wing.
I cannot remember about engines back that far. My oldest CAMS manual is 79 and the engine must be from 'automobiles recognised by CAMS as an Australian Touring Car or FIA Gp1 Gp2 FIA. I do know back in the early 70s there was Holden powered Anglias, 2l Ford powered Belletts, Gulsons rotary powered Mini, defenitly Holden powered Simcas and mid 70s Chev powered Alfas [Edmondsen] Celica [Alan Ling] In actual fact the Jane Repco Torana was stretching the rules as really it was a racing engine based on a Buick, not a Buick/Olds engine. A bit like using a alloy Sprintcar block these days. And as far as I am concerned it must be a production car block not an aftermarket block though seemingly nobody enforces those rules these days. eg Bowtie blocks, Dart blocks, Ford SVO blocks and the like.

#4075 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 21:42

Wasn't that the model they called Business (meaning taxi business, I suspect)?

My memory is clouded these days but from memory a FJ FE FC business sedan was a 215 model [standard] with a pack suited for business users. eg Taxi rail, grab handles and i think wagon type rear springs? A 215 had no chrome on the sides, poverty trim though actually leatherette!! no armrests, no door courtesy lights and the like. This carried through really until the late 70s and even then a HZ Kingswood was down spec to a Kingswood SL. In HQ racing a Belmont [215] is sometimes known as the factory race pack!

#4076 SJ Lambert

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 00:49

Just think, have you ever seen a picture of a Lotus 72 with a high wing?

That pic of Henk Woelders would have been no later than April 1969, the ban applied in Australia within days (or maybe weeks) of its application Internationally. The US held on for a little longer.


My mistake, so, was the precipitating event for the International Ban as Vitesse2 details?

" I think the Lotus wing you're thinking of is from 1969, not 1968. That was the year all the Thursday times were scrapped after the FIA decided to ban high wings due to Hill's and Rindt's catastrophic wing failures at Barcelona - the "shovel" rear wing was an instant solution which was essentially designed and built in a day in the Monaco pits! "

Henk reckons that when the ban came through, (and I can't recall which event he said they were at) that as no one could produce written confirmation of it, they effectively got one more winged meeting before mothballing them..............


#4077 Wirra

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 01:39

I'm drawing a complete blank on this one. A Kiwi maybe?

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#4078 Wirra

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 01:52

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I read that Mr Bell will be at Manly (Sydney) this weekend judging cars in a concours type event. I would much prefer he came for the Revival and drove Mr Adelman's Ferrari.

#4079 Wilyman

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 03:21

Eskimut would probably know better than anyone, as I believe his 48-215 is a very rare Business model.
The Business model I believe was slightly different to the Standard, as it had a rail behind the front seat (for taxi use), grab handles on the doors and a few minor mechanical mods, but from the outside they are hard to pick.


David,
I am ever grateful for the old FJ's with the taxi grab rail.
As a back seat passenger I was involved in a complete roll-over while engaged in a back road race with a Ford Pilot. I hung onto the rail until it came to a dusty halt. :lol:

The Valiant? engined Simca's drum brakes would have been as effective as the donor Valiant in that situation. [Bathurst].
The little Sim's brakes were reputed to have a larger swept area than most of the then "Big 3".

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#4080 gavinevitt

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 03:39

I'm drawing a complete blank on this one. A Kiwi maybe?

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Surely Frank Gardner in the UK Camaro he raced in NZ and Australia in 1972.

#4081 Team Result

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 04:41

Surely Frank Gardner in the UK Camaro he raced in NZ and Australia in 1972.

Mmm, it does look like something from BTCC. Design and colour scheme doesn't seem right for an Oz car.
Lack of sponsorship logos and Shell stickers don't seem appropriate for something Castrol driver Frank would be peddling, though.

If pressed I'd probably say it was Rod Coppins, but it's just a guess. Track is Warwick Farm?

BTW, anyone else notice the ghost passenger or has my coffee been spiked again?!!

Edited by Team Result, 02 October 2010 - 04:45.


#4082 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 06:55

Mmm, it does look like something from BTCC. Design and colour scheme doesn't seem right for an Oz car.
Lack of sponsorship logos and Shell stickers don't seem appropriate for something Castrol driver Frank would be peddling, though.

If pressed I'd probably say it was Rod Coppins, but it's just a guess. Track is Warwick Farm?

BTW, anyone else notice the ghost passenger or has my coffee been spiked again?!!

So has mine Ross, I see it too, leaning into the corner as well.
It looks a lot like the Gardner Chev though.

#4083 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 17:55

Originally posted by gavinevitt
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Surely Frank Gardner in the UK Camaro he raced in NZ and Australia in 1972.


Absolutely...

I think the story would be that Frank ran the car here unsponsored, so cleaned all the signage off so he might attract some sponsors for his runs here. Probably expected to sell the car in Australia.

Couple of other things...

The FJ had a Standard, Business and Special model. Essentially the Business model was aimed at the taxi market, which Holden totally dominated until, in Don Holland's words, "They sold off the last of the Water Board's fleet of HZs." The taxi industry didn't like the downsizing that came with the Commodore and went for Falcons... something to reflect on as you see the Prius gaining acceptance in that field today!

I think the Business model continued into the FE, but I'm not sure. I do recall that the only visible indicator of a business model was the grab rail, but they had different seat trims, I'm sure, for better durability, possibly some suspension changes, but unlikely they had wagon springs in the FJs as there were no wagons in FJs... and I doubt they went to ute springs. In those times there really wasn't much in the way of options or alternatives in cars sold in Australia.

NASCO, the GM accessory division, sold the grab rails as an accessory and it wasn't unknown for people to fit them to their Special models for the kids to hang onto in the back. And there was even an occasional taxi owner who'd use a Special model and fit one.

This would have continued through to the FBs, maybe EKs, but I wouldn't reckon the EJs would have ever seen one. Just how much of this stuff has become myth and legend is amazing, and best exemplified in the stories that circulate about what the S4 option included. Even on this forum I've seen a photo of a butchered EH instrument panel with a round speedo and tacho inserted and forcefully been told that this was how the S4 came!

Simca brakes were identical to Peugeot 203 brakes. Except for the drums, of course.

The high wing and suspension-mounted wing ban... didn't Hill and Rindt crash during the race? Yes, I'm sure... and so the ban hit during the weekend at Monaco a week or two later, right?

That didn't mean that they were banned totally all around the world at that time. Australia could reasonably have been expected to do exactly what the FIA did, but the US, as mentioned, kept them a while longer. Again, there are photos on this forum of M10Bs with high wings later in the year.

Finally, the Jane Repco-Torana...

This wore the engine from the Elfin 400 (as driven be Martin, Moffat, Jane, Gibson, Cook etc...), and so it was an early Repco engine which did have the GM alloy block. It wouldn't have been able to run had this not been so.

#4084 fredeuce

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 18:57

Surely Frank Gardner in the UK Camaro he raced in NZ and Australia in 1972.


He raced at Warick Farm on one occasion in Feb 1973. Moffat won, Geoghegan second . Was also the last race for the Geoghegan Falcon.

This race is featured on the Classic Australian Touring Car DVD made from the old ABC telecasts.

Edited by fredeuce, 03 October 2010 - 03:45.


#4085 SJ Lambert

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 20:56

Finally, the Jane Repco-Torana...

This wore the engine from the Elfin 400 (as driven be Martin, Moffat, Jane, Gibson, Cook etc...), and so it was an early Repco engine which did have the GM alloy block. It wouldn't have been able to run had this not been so.



Does Bob still retain that particular engine?

#4086 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 21:36

According to the 'Giant Killers' magazine of the time the Jane Torana Repco engine came as 'It was bought in a sugar bag from Frank Matich. We didnt get it from him directly but it was one of his engines which was in a sugar bag lying over at Repco' It goes on to say that none of the bits had been together which made it far harder to assemble. So unless it was a very early 60s purely Olds block Repco engine it was not strictly kosher for Sports Sedan then [or now]Though ofcourse it may well have been though the 400hp quoted @7000 rpm may be a lot unreliable.

On further reference to the EJ EH manual [ which is the only geuine manual I have left now] there is no mention of the business sedan. I still think they were sold as a pack based on a standard though may well have been applicable to a special too. I have seen EH standard with the proverbial taxi bar but how or why or what I do not know.They only screwed to the seat back with self tappers.
In hinsight in this day and age very dangerous as it something for rear seat passengers to smash themselves on in a accident with no rear seat belts.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 02 October 2010 - 21:42.


#4087 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 21:44

That sounds like a wild story, Lee... but you get that...

From memory (which I think has failed me before with this car), Ken Hastings rebuilt the car, I don't think he had the Repco engine. But I may be wrong.

My recollection is that the engine from the Elfin went into the Torana. The Elfin was in action before Matich was discarding engines, I'm fairly sure. Frank did, however, run a 4.4 before going to 5.0 litres in the SR3, so it could be that there was a 4.4 sent back to Repco surplus to Frank's needs.

Of course, it's also possible that this was an assumption made by people in the press at the time and I read it somewhere and it was wrong.

There was definitely no Business model in the EJs, I don't think there was in the FCs either, nor anything in between.

#4088 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 21:52

[quote name='Ray Bell' date='Oct 3 2010, 03:55' post='4623205']
Absolutely...


The high wing and suspension-mounted wing ban... didn't Hill and Rindt crash during the race? Yes, I'm sure... and so the ban hit during the weekend at Monaco a week or two later, right?

That didn't mean that they were banned totally all around the world at that time. Australia could reasonably have been expected to do exactly what the FIA did, but the US, as mentioned, kept them a while longer. Again, there are photos on this forum of M10Bs with high wings later in the year.


Following the 1969 Spanish GP in which both Hill and Rindt crashed badly following wing failures, the FIA banned not only the high wings but any wing separate to the main vehicle structure. This lead to use of some quite innovative 'tea tray' style engine covers at the Monaco race two weeks later but by the middle of the year a set of definitive regulations governing the size, mounting and placement of wings had been introduced. The rear wing was restricted in width and could be no higher than 80cm above the bottom of the car and 1 meter back from the rear wheel centre line. All wings had to be chassis or body mounted and there were strict dimensional restrictions at the front of the car all of which created a dimensional envelope which largely defined the appearance of single seat racing cars for quite a few years to come.

The suggestion that the high suspension mounted wings were not effective is way off beam. By passing the aerodynamic inputs direct to the wheels with no insulating intermediary they enabled the spring rates and suspension geometry to be determined without need to cope with all that downforce. They were, in fact, far more effective which is why they were used despite the difficulty in mounting them. There were all sorts of combinations in use in late 1968 and early 1969, however, and not all the 'high' wings were suspension mounted. Some cars had them suspension mounted at the rear and chassis mounted at front which lead to some crazy looking different angles when in action and there were some which were chassis mounted in the centre of the car but linked direct to the rear suspension upright at the outer end.

The real worth of putting the aerodynamic input direct to the suspension is, however, best demonstrated by Chapman's later efforts to circumvent the regulations and achieve the same result with his 'twin chassis' Lotus 88.


#4089 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 22:22

That sounds like a wild story, Lee... but you get that...

From memory (which I think has failed me before with this car), Ken Hastings rebuilt the car, I don't think he had the Repco engine. But I may be wrong.

My recollection is that the engine from the Elfin went into the Torana. The Elfin was in action before Matich was discarding engines, I'm fairly sure. Frank did, however, run a 4.4 before going to 5.0 litres in the SR3, so it could be that there was a 4.4 sent back to Repco surplus to Frank's needs.

Of course, it's also possible that this was an assumption made by people in the press at the time and I read it somewhere and it was wrong.

There was definitely no Business model in the EJs, I don't think there was in the FCs either, nor anything in between.

That wild story is quoting John Sheppard who built the car. Which was built around 1971. By which time Repco engines were near the peak of their development and held little allegiance to the original Buick/ Olds engines they were based on.

There was defenitly mention of business sedans in the FE FC manual but in what context I cannot remember. GMH always looked after the commercial industry who were [and are] their buggest buyers. Though these days are losing the cab industry though really I do not know why apart from cost. Camrys are a good bit cheaper as a 40k used white ex government car than a VE.Though far dearer to run and maintain. And here in SA very few ex government Fords. The VE is big, has duel fuel advailable, has a big boot still. Boring simple and reliable. Ideal cab. I have only seen one Prius cab, crashed and burnt. And far too small.Some of the SA goverment cars are really cabs in waiting, dual fuel white cars!!

#4090 Ian G

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 22:53

There was defenitly mention of business sedans in the FE FC manual but in what context I cannot remember. GMH always looked after the commercial industry who were [and are] their buggest buyers. Though these days are losing the cab industry though really I do not know why apart from cost. Camrys are a good bit cheaper as a 40k used white ex government car than a VE.Though far dearer to run and maintain. And here in SA very few ex government Fords. The VE is big, has duel fuel advailable, has a big boot still. Boring simple and reliable. Ideal cab. I have only seen one Prius cab, crashed and burnt. And far too small.Some of the SA goverment cars are really cabs in waiting, dual fuel white cars!!


The "Taxi pack" in one form or another goes back a long way,at least the early 1960's or late 1950's,it also included a bigger radiator and light switches on the rear doors at various times. A FJ taxi was still running around Sydney in the 1970's and got a lot of fares because of the novelty value.Prius's are being used as Taxi's in the Lismore-Ballina area,no major dramas except they are hard to hear coming except for tyre the noise/mechanical whine and this can be a problem with pedestrians,especially drunks of a night.



#4091 GD66

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 00:16

Mmm, it does look like something from BTCC. Design and colour scheme doesn't seem right for an Oz car.


BTW, anyone else notice the ghost passenger or has my coffee been spiked again?!!




What's he on about ? Eeek ! :eek: Now that's a worry !
That was a most unusual car...perhaps it was the lack of signwriting, but from side-on that car looked to me to be about a foot longer in the wheelbase than other contemporary Camaros. Perhaps this effect was enhanced by the plain white body with the red noseband, but I always thought it looked like a sports sedan built as a touring car. Love to know what it weighed, and where it disappeared to, as it was certainly a weapon... :)


#4092 ellrosso

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 00:21

Ellis (or your mate Eddie Wilson) did the 4.4 Repco in the Elliot/Edmonson BMW S/Sedan come from the Jane team? They had big problems with cracked blocks - did they just repair the one or source other blocks?

#4093 Wirra

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 00:49

...BTW, anyone else notice the ghost passenger or has my coffee been spiked again?!!

I think you will find it's the famous german navigator Gestalt - I noticed he even brought his own steering wheel this time.

Moving on... How often did Pete wear a full-face helmet in a tintop?
Posted Image

Edited by Wirra, 03 October 2010 - 01:18.


#4094 cavvy

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:12

That sounds like a wild story, Lee... but you get that...

From memory (which I think has failed me before with this car), Ken Hastings rebuilt the car, I don't think he had the Repco engine. But I may be wrong.

My recollection is that the engine from the Elfin went into the Torana. The Elfin was in action before Matich was discarding engines, I'm fairly sure. Frank did, however, run a 4.4 before going to 5.0 litres in the SR3, so it could be that there was a 4.4 sent back to Repco surplus to Frank's needs.

Of course, it's also possible that this was an assumption made by people in the press at the time and I read it somewhere and it was wrong.


The Blanden/Catford Elfin book claims the Jane Elfin 400 had the 'first racing engine (Repco) sold to a buyer'. Bob still has the motor.

Re the Elliott/Edmondson BMW sports sedan, I believe the motor went missing in WA. Did the owner ever locate it ?

Edited by cavvy, 03 October 2010 - 01:13.


#4095 cavvy

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:25

What's he on about ? Eeek ! :eek: Now that's a worry !
That was a most unusual car...perhaps it was the lack of signwriting, but from side-on that car looked to me to be about a foot longer in the wheelbase than other contemporary Camaros. Perhaps this effect was enhanced by the plain white body with the red noseband, but I always thought it looked like a sports sedan built as a touring car. Love to know what it weighed, and where it disappeared to, as it was certainly a weapon... :)



The Gardner Camaro was rebuilt by Rowan Harman a few years back & returned to the UK.

Found this from Rowan in another place:
I purchased the Camaro from Bernie Watt earlier this year after four years of negotiating. The car is as it finished its last race (1988?) and has been kept in dry storage since that time.

In sourcing the Camaro's UK and Euro history with help from Jon Mello of Historic Trans-Am, the linage of the car as best we can establish is as follows;

Late November 1966 production - Norwood (most probably an SS 350/327 car with RS option).
Delivered to Robert Chevrolet (NY) and prepared for Trans-Am for Bob (Bobby) Brown.
Sebring 4 Hour Trans-Am 2, March 1967. Finished 6th.
Lime Rock Trans-Am 4, May 1967. DNF.
1967 SCCA Runoffs, Lime Rock (Labour Day) Overall Winner.
Sold to Malcolm Wayne - UK. Wayne raced the car in 1968 (inc some BSCC races)
1968, Wayne sold to Mike Kearon (race history TBA)
1970, Kearon sold to Bill Shaw for Roy Pierpoint to replace Camaro 'written off' at Oulton Park in 69.
1970 (Late), Shaw sold to Adrian Chambers (SCA European Road Services) ending up with Frank Gardner at the wheel.
1971, BSCC, Gardner.
1972, First two rounds of BSCC before new car ready.

There are some doubts that the car was then prepared as the Jagermeister car for Germany in 1972. This is yet to be fully researched. There are thoughts that the Jagermeister car was in fact the Martin Thomas car!!

December 1972, Frank runs the Camaro in the Tasman International supports at Bay Park (any photo's please) with the car now all white with a red nose, sill and tail band. The car is then shipped to Australia for the Tasman support races at Sandown. There were stories that the car had been sold to an Oil Company in Australia for Kevin Bartlett. KB has verified that this was all talk at the time though the car did run with Shell markings at Sandown, (KB was a Shell contracted driver and Frank a Castrol driver!)

Following Sandown, the Camaro was then sold to the Bob Jane Corporation that involved a 'deal' where Frank took the 7 litre ZL1 engine and trick gearbox from Bob's 69 Camaro back to the UK for fitment to the newer SCA car. The 67 then went into storage at BJRT (once being sent to NZ for bond/duty reasons in October 73). I tried to purchase the car in mid 74 (until Bob got personally involved - another story) and the car remained at BJRT until 76 when it was sold to John Pollard. Pollard sold it on in 1978 to Bernie Watt before I finally purchased the car in early 2004."

Photos on www.autopics.com.au
http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

Edited by cavvy, 03 October 2010 - 01:37.


#4096 GD66

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 02:02

Wow ! Thanks Cavvy, jeez I love TNF.... :love:

#4097 ellrosso

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 02:45

We have shots of the car at Bay Park and in Pollards hands on the oldracephotos.com website - type either Gardner or Pollard into Advanced Search will bring them up.
Cheers, ellrosso

#4098 Leo D

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 12:20

Finally, the Jane Repco-Torana...

This wore the engine from the Elfin 400 (as driven be Martin, Moffat, Jane, Gibson, Cook etc...), and so it was an early Repco engine which did have the GM alloy block. It wouldn't have been able to run had this not been so.


Ray, we have discussed this before on other forum topics. Ken Hastings purchased the damaged Elfin 400 from Bob Jane complete withe the Repco engine. When Ken sold the car, and I can't remember the name of the guy that purchased it, but the McLaren 4A that Ken ended up with was part of the deal. The Repco engine from the 400 went into a speed boat. My source of information on this was Ken Hastings, who unfortinately, is no longer with us...

The question that I have asked before when discusing this topic is where the Repco V8 that is in the now restored Elfin 400 came from?

#4099 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 21:50

Thanks again...

I've obviously got to get that stitched firmly into my memory banks!

And on the subject of Prius taxis, they really are everywhere! Saw three at once in Sydney the other day, I've seen them in Brisbane, Ballina, Lismore and I'm sure other places.

Makes you wonder what the taxi world is coming to... and also whether they'll be moving into the Camry hybrids.

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#4100 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 22:04

as much as I disike Camrys they would make more sense than a Prius. Far larger with more boot space.
Though I still cannot see how they are cheaper to run overall than a Commodore or Falcon on gas as the maintenance is far more expensive on the front drive Camry.
Though maybe they do not do it, coming home last night turning right alongside a Camry cab and a CV was nearly ready to fall on the ground by the noise it was making and the driver seemed oblivious.