131 replies to this topic

[mgtd]

I especially liked the Alan Stacey/Innes Ireland story.Medical checks were not quite so rigid in those days,Stacey,who had a tin leg after a biking contretemps,always ensured that Ireland accompanied him to the medical.Doctor checks knee refexes on Ireland,no problem,checks Stacey's good knee,no problem,Ireland creates a very noisy diversion and Stacey confuses medic by crossing legs several times and Doc checks original knee.Perfect responses on both sides,ticket issued.Job Done!

As Leigh observed ,Simon has lost faith with current F1 as most of us would agree,without decrying the obvious massive ability of the drivers (!)...maybe.Someone asked the inevitable ,who was the best? question,and in his opinion the answer was Sir Stirling,mainly on his remarkable versatility,F1,F2,saloon,sports etc. even at the same event...I think we would all love to see those days return.

An interesting evening,with a few off the record insights into the wonderful world of current F1 and historic racing with all the inevitable flying close to the mark and even further......another FORC triumph.

mgtd

[mgtd]

Me again. One of the best I've been to.David Piper kept all 195 of us enthralled by his tales of the tracks from his ownership of the "empire" Lotus 6 through to the dangers of early Porsche 917s. I think he is a little frustrated at the state of Historic Racing today,the "voluntary" £1,000 entry fee at Goodwood when he is risking his priceless Ferrari P4 etc not to mention himself at the ripe old age of 79.There were so many anecdotes,I should have made notes! He raced all over the world from Brighton to Buenos Aires,via Mt.Fuji,Kyalami and Invercargill...wonder how many passports he got through?
I sat just behind Bob Dance and Jack Sears who seemed to greatly enjoy the evening,both of them adding the odd piece of first hand info when required.I must add that David was most ably assisted by his delightful assistant,Mrs Piper ,who appeared to have instant recall of every blooming race he'd ever done!
A terrific evening's entertainment.

Stephen

Edited by mgtd, 26 November 2009 - 00:04.

[MCS]

Me again. One of the best I've been to.David Piper kept all 195 of us enthralled by his tales of the tracks from his ownership of the "empire" Lotus 6 through to the dangers of early Porsche 917s. I think he is a little frustrated at the state of Historic Racing today,the "voluntary" £1,000 entry fee at Goodwood when he is risking his priceless Ferrari P4 etc not to mention himself at the ripe old age of 79.There were so many anecdotes,I should have made notes! He raced all over the world from Brighton to Buenos Aires,via Mt.Fuji,Kyalami and Invercargill...wonder how many passports he got through?
I sat just behind Bob Dance and Jack Sears who seemed to greatly enjoy the evening,both of them adding the odd piece of first hand info when required.I must add that David was most ably assisted by his delightful assistant,Mrs Piper ,who appeared to have instant recall of every blooming race he'd ever done!
A terrific evening's entertainment.

Stephen

Sounds terrific. Thanks Stephen.

Did any other TNFers get along?

[Leigh Trevail]

Whilst in his early twenties David was told by his father to either concentrate on either farming or motor racing, hoping that he would choose the former. After deliberating for a few days David's mind was made up when he was offered a drive in the Targa Florio, this seemed more exciting than mixing pig food. I for one am glad he chose Sicily.

With prompting from his good lady; David managed to stay pretty much on track, but even so after two hours he was only up to his early drives in the 917, so hopefully this will be the first instalment of a two part talk.

All in all; another excellent evening put on by Messrs. Reynolds, Wyatt & Briggs, and also a special mention is due for the ladies providing the refreshments!

Edited by Leigh Trevail, 30 November 2009 - 06:50.

[hipperson]

Another great FORC night.

My favourite tale was DP discussing the fragility of the Alfa 33. On the Targa one time he came bombing around a corner to find Colin Davis sitting on his 33 smoking a pipe. He stopped asked what the problem was and Davis leant forward and spun the steering wheel .

Nick Loudon printed a few Piper photos for me to get signed

Here the 1966 TT at Oulton Park




And here the Guards Trophy at Brands in 1964 ( signed for my children 8 & 11)



Again truly wonderful photos by Nick. He has 10,000 negs most never printed.

We have both been trying for 2 years to get a book published of his Lotus images but regretfully nobody is interested.

He will however be having an exhibition at the Jim Clark Room in Duns early next year.

[RTH]

Really great photographs !

[mgtd]

Good, may I for once be the first to report on an excellent FORC evening? We were most privileged to hear from larger-than-life all round funny guy and top class co-driver Tony Mason. He gave a very funny account of his life from seeing Glasgow entrants on the Monte pass through his home town (Morecombe?) en route to the South in the early 50's ,via attending the local Motor Club meetings -by bus- and early,tentative road rally outings in Triumph Heralds,Sunbeam Rapiers and the like, to the peak of his co-driving career winning the RAC Rally with the great Roger Clark in 1972. His two childhood heroes were Stirling Moss and Ken Dodd! what a combination- did you know Tony was a local stand-up comedian in the North West helping finance his rallying? Like a previous FORC speaker,Simon Taylor, Mason can do passable imitations of various people,in his case specialising in a variety of Scandinavian Nutter rally drivers..Blomquvist,Vattenan and others whose names I can't spell without reference to more knowledgeable folk than myself.He related my personal favourite anecdote of the evening about R.Clark and himself. In the days of somewhat less commercialised rallying with far fewer facilities crews had to grab sustenance where they could,on the road,so driving on a road section near Newark,Mason, who had to do all driving between stages spotted a Fish 'n Chip shop open.He ground to a rapid halt, and swiftly ejected Mr Clark from the car ( Works Escort RS 1600) to join the queue for two Cod and Chips.Seeing a hot and sweaty rally driver in full kit,he was allowed to jump straight to the front and purchase said snackfood. Would love to have seen the two of them roaring off in the RS chomping on their calorie controlled,dietician dictated, high-energy supper (not!).
A good evening's entertainment,with plenty of laffs (there was a certain Northern flavour to it.)
Thanks as usual to Steve and Norman and their team.

Stephen

[sterling49]

Sounds great Stephen, really sorry that I could not make it, I have attended Tony's presentations before, a real enthusiast! Did he recall going into the lake on that R.A.C.? ('71)

[RTH]

That sounds like a really good evening.

[Leigh Trevail]

That sounds like a really good evening.

Yes it was, it was bloody excellent! Mason had at one time been a stand-up comedian in the North but changed direction, however his ability to amuse a crowd is still there. The evening was a reminder of what Top Gear used to be, the programme is so much the poorer without him !!

Edited by Leigh Trevail, 28 January 2010 - 17:51.

[David McKinney]

I wonder if he could be enticed down to Hertfordshire, Richard?

[RTH]

Well we would love that David.
Anyone on here got any personal contact with Tony Mason so that we could approach him in the right way ? Also agree with above he is much missed from Top Gear.

[mgtd]

Sounds great Stephen, really sorry that I could not make it, I have attended Tony's presentations before, a real enthusiast! Did he recall going into the lake on that R.A.C.? ('71)

Yes Sterling,he recounted the lake story (Longleat?) at great length, had us all in stiches! Obviously his many years of service at the Beeb have given him a pretty professional presentational style. Much missed on the telly, but there again so is proper rallying.

Stephen

[Leigh Trevail]

After the talk Steve Wyatt mentioned that he had some prints of one of Andrew Kitson's paintings for sale. All of the subjects featured in it have spoken at the Oily Rag Club at sometime. All of the proceeds from the prints sold at the F.O.R.C meetings go to the Mechanic's Trust to help those who gave their working lives to the sport for very little financial reward. The Print is also available on Andrew's website www.andrewkitson.com

"Snetterton Memories"



Drivers / cars shown are Jim Russell / F3 Cooper 1956, Chris Craft / Lola T70 Mk3 1969,
Sir John Whitmore / Lotus Cortina 1965, Jackie Oliver / F1 BRM with Tim Parnell 1969,
Brian Lister with Archie Scott-Brown / Lister-Jaguar 1957, Richard Attwood / Ford GT40 1966,
John Miles / Lotus 47 'Europa' with Bob Dance 1968, Jack Sears / Willment Cobra Coupe 1964.

[Andrew Kitson]

An excellent evening with a talk and Q&A session with Gordon Spice last night. Very amusing! Good to catch up with the usual TNF suspects and FORC regulars, again a full house of almost 200. The evening started with a great BBC film, commentary by Murray Walker of Gordon winning at Crystal Palace in the 'Britax' Cooper S in 1969, beating Chris ' Doris' Craft's Broadspeed Escort. Gordon said Chris has always been called 'Doris', he couldn't remember why!

[Leigh Trevail]

By his own admission Gordon Spice neither liked; or was much good at public speaking, but non the less it was a good evening. Actually; the fact that he had come a long way to spend an evening doing something that he was clearly not at ease with made it all the more of an occasion. Thanks go to Steve, Norman and Ray; along with their pit crew and especially to Gordon for spending his evening with us.

[mgtd]

I really felt for Gordon last night. As Leigh said,he was never going to be a great " after-dinner speaker " but once he got into his stride in the Q & A there were many terrific anecdotes, and unlike most FORC speakers he didn't spare his language for the "Ladies" , how refreshing. I don't know if his book includes them or not, but I loved the description of his time at Downton, the best Mini tuners of their time of course. First he negotiated a salary package of £15 a week plus the use of works engine for his non-existant Mini; he thought that rather a better deal than the £20 offer and then borrowed Mother's Austin 1100 to commute in after the boss ( Daniel Richmond ) told him what he could do with his beloved Cortina GT with WIRE WHEELS, no less. I just loved the eccentricity of Daniel and his partner, I'll call her Brunhilde as I can't remember her name! Each morning at 11.00, as the sun presumably was rapidly approaching the yard-arm, they would serve Martinis- you know the type, neat Gordons with a sniff of Vermouth vapour! I seem to remember reading before about Daniel and those far-off days before the dreaded Breathalyser! Apparently, every Wednesday he would sneak off at lunchtime up to Abingdon for what Gordon described as a "brainstorming" session with Alec Issigonis and Alex Moulton, legends both. Story is that they played with Alec's train set in the attic for the rest of the afternoon. And no doubt improved the performance of the Works Minis no end!
End of ramble; another enjoyable FORC evening.

Stephen

[Gary C]

Just returned from the latest Oily Rag (yes, I do realise it's 1.45am!!), my first! A fantastic evening! It was a Team Lotus Mechanics v. BRM Mechanics contest. Well, not really. Hosted by Vintage Racecar's Ed McDonough and Mike Jiggle, we were treated to stories from Bob Sparshott and Bob Dance from TL and Pat Carvath and Dick Salmon from BRM. Just great stuff. You all know what I'm going to say now : we could have listened to them all night! Thanks indeed to RTH for driving both Sterling and I to the gig.
Here's a pic of an impromptu TNF meeting :



L>R : Sterling, yours truly, Andrew Kitson and Steven Lee.
A few more pics when I've had some sleep!

[RTH]

Most interesting evening as Gary says.
Insights in to the characters of Colin Chapman and Raymond Mays and drivers like Graham Hill and many others who drove for both teams, by 4 chaps who worked really closely under pressure with all the people concerned at the time.
Expertly moderated and conducted by Ed McDonough and Mike Jiggle.

What never ceases to amaze me about these motor racing discussion evenings in what actually is a remote rural location in a village hall in the Diss area on a mid week evening , is the extraordinary large turnout something like 200 people !

Sounds as if the elderly, underpowered and unsuitable clapped out vans that were converted, it seems largely with scaffold poles , in to racing car transporters, particually at Lotus were a great deal more difficult to keep going that the racing cars themselves.

BRM it seams had a rather more agreeable policy of buying a fleet of new purpose built vehicles and had fewer breakdowns.

[sterling49]

I will repeat what both Gary and Richard have said before, and confirm that another great eveining was enjoyed by me, and all who attended. Steve and team do a great job organising and it is such a great atmosphere with like minded enthusiasts, of a certain age and memory recall. Towards the end of the evening, Andy re-introduced us all to Jack Sears, and he confirmed that Andy will be chauffeuring him down to the TNF Film Show, ably organised by Richard Hinton, the next event we have to look forward to. Good to speak with Stephen, talking over old events in Norfolk, when competing with Charles Golding and Preston Ayres.All in all, a journey worth making, thanks to Richard for driving and supplying refreshments, a nice mid week interlude .

[Gary C]

Just a few pics from last night :

BRM stalwarts Dick Salmon (in the middle) and Pat Carvath on the right.





Team Lotus mechanic (but don't forget STP and Brabham too) Bob Dance.




Team Lotus' Bob Sparshott signs on the dotted line.

[mgtd]

Good to see all you TNF'ers last night. Another great evening of racing chat from those that really were involved.
So many stories, so few can I remember! Loved Bob Dance's reminiscences of the Granatelli Brothers set-up in Santa Monica ( ? ) it seems that you just did what the Old Man said - no questions asked - they had the local Plod in their pockets, testing a racing car on the road - no problem,don't worry about the police. What you might call an old-fashioned Italian/American arrangement, if you get my drift!
As Richard said, the heroic transportation efforts in those days beggar belief, Scandinavia to Enna as fast as poss. - no tacho's for the drivers- just drive straight through until you got there, customs men and carnets allowing!
Thanks to Steve Wyatt and Team as ever, wonder what October's got in store for us?

Stephen

[Leigh Trevail]

A packed house once again for the Oily Rag Club talk, last nights guest speaker was Mike Costin, of Cosworth fame. The talk was obviously unrehearsed and unstructured. Mike spoke about his days at De Havilland, his very early (8pm - 2 am) days at Lotus’ his brother Frank, Lotus on full time basis, setting up Cosworth with Keith Duckworth, the D.F.V & later the turbo F1 engines, the Sierra Cosworth and his hobby of gliding, but not necessarily in that order. His technical stuff was put over in a way that even I could understand and together with the odd amusing anecdote we all had a very enjoyable evening, thank you Mike.

[mgtd]

The evening started well with an amusing introduction by one Dave Brodie. Couldn't help but notice such an audience of the "great and the good"....Chapman,mere et fils, Jack Sears, Chris Craft, John Miles, Bob Dance and everyone else who I didn't recognise.As reported above, Mike meandered thro' a fascinating life from apprenticeship at De Havilland in 1947, via the very early days of Lotus "after-hours" at Hornsey and the subsequent setting-up of Cosworth with Keith Duckworth and Ben Rood. I'm sure we've heard the anecdote of brother Frank being driven on the front of a Lotus Mk.VIII at Hawarden airfield, calmly observing wool tufts under the front wheel-arch for airflow at 100mph! He casually mentioned the test of a Lotus 19 up the M1 at 165 and many more tales. Obviously still with a soft-spot for the "Old Man" he related some yarn of flying Chapman's Miles Messenger up to Oulton Park,landing in a field, and some nosy (and hungy?) cows devouring the flaps or some such part of the wings!
He did relate some of the development of various famous Cossie engines, at times the technicalities were somewhat beyond me, with tales of DFV oil scavenge problems and the "quill hub" at the front end of a DFV-whatever that may be. I didn't realise they made a 1.5 litre FVB as half of the future DFV, and was interested by the fact that early DFV power outputs were so consistant, within + or - 2%. I think we all got the message that Cosworth eschewed the use of turbo-charging for as long as possible, as it was such an inelegant means of increasing power (to an engineer!).Another useful fact,"mechanics' " modifications (not engineers') always caused trouble after the supply of "out of the box" engines, and NEVER use aeroquip-type hoses due to internal flow problems.
And I've not even mentioned the twin DFX powered powerboat which had trouble planing out of the water until some bright spark added a spot of nitrous oxide, and Mike's UK glider altitude record of 38,000 feet somewhere over Herefordshire.
A Very Interesting Bloke!

[RTH]

The evening started well with an amusing introduction by one Dave Brodie. Couldn't help but notice such an audience of the "great and the good"....Chapman,mere et fils, Jack Sears, Chris Craft, John Miles, Bob Dance and everyone else who I didn't recognise.As reported above, Mike meandered thro' a fascinating life from apprenticeship at De Havilland in 1947, via the very early days of Lotus "after-hours" at Hornsey and the subsequent setting-up of Cosworth with Keith Duckworth and Ben Rood. I'm sure we've heard the anecdote of brother Frank being driven on the front of a Lotus Mk.VIII at Hawarden airfield, calmly observing wool tufts under the front wheel-arch for airflow at 100mph! He casually mentioned the test of a Lotus 19 up the M1 at 165 and many more tales. Obviously still with a soft-spot for the "Old Man" he related some yarn of flying Chapman's Miles Messenger up to Oulton Park,landing in a field, and some nosy (and hungy?) cows devouring the flaps or some such part of the wings!
He did relate some of the development of various famous Cossie engines, at times the technicalities were somewhat beyond me, with tales of DFV oil scavenge problems and the "quill hub" at the front end of a DFV-whatever that may be. I didn't realise they made a 1.5 litre FVB as half of the future DFV, and was interested by the fact that early DFV power outputs were so consistant, within + or - 2%. I think we all got the message that Cosworth eschewed the use of turbo-charging for as long as possible, as it was such an inelegant means of increasing power (to an engineer!).Another useful fact,"mechanics' " modifications (not engineers') always caused trouble after the supply of "out of the box" engines, and NEVER use aeroquip-type hoses due to internal flow problems.
And I've not even mentioned the twin DFX powered powerboat which had trouble planing out of the water until some bright spark added a spot of nitrous oxide, and Mike's UK glider altitude record of 38,000 feet somewhere over Herefordshire.
A Very Interesting Bloke!

Much regret missing all that...great report Stephen.

[Leigh Trevail]

mgtd......... Did you take notes during the talk, or do you just have a bloody good memory?

[mgtd]

You've found me out Leigh.
For the first time I actually DID take notes, I think Steve Wyattt appreciates our feedback; mind you it's a bit too much like working for a retired person like me. Don't worry, it won't happen again!

Stephen

[Leigh Trevail]

No No! You carry on. Reading your contribution bought the memories of the evening flooding back, it was like being there all over again. In future I shall leave the reporting to you, my third rate effort did not do Mike Costin justice. Carry you on!

Edited by Leigh Trevail, 26 November 2010 - 16:23.

[mgtd]

Thanks a lot. They'll be sending me out to report on the local fete soon. Please don't stop your jottings Leigh, I could well fall asleep and miss all the juicy stuff!

[mgtd]

Another new season, the 11th for FORC started last evening. A packed house was treated to a beautifully low-key, but really entertaining evening of recollections from Peter Sutcliffe the renowned long distance sports car man of the 60's. Although perhaps that name would be more associated with another more infamous Yorkshireman 10 years his junior, once Peter began the usual description of racing life in those more innocent days, any thoughts of "The Ripper" soon dispersed. Born into what appeared a pretty idyllic life of the scion of Huddersfield textile manufacturers, he described in an amusing, somewhat languid style the beginnings of automotive urges that were initially satisfied by unhitching the 1951 Landrover that his elder sister used to transport her equine chums to 3-day events, and learning the finer points of off-roading in relative safety. Peter's first car, supplied by the long-suffering parents, was an MG TD (somewhat close to my own heart!) which he proceeded to drive in local events unbeknownst to his folks. He told us of competing at Oulton Park in a race sponsored by Granada TV. When friends of the family began to phone Sutcliffe's home in congratulation, ma and pa put 2 & 2 together, he was exposed as a competitor. There were some lovely tales giving the usual atmosphere of the time; driving to and from events in the racer. First the MG, then a Frazer Nash Le Mans Rep and later a Sebring bought from the works at Isleworth when the more lucrative Porsche business absorbed the efforts of AFN. When Peter progressed to a transporter he purchased an ancient Thornycroft truck from a local (washing machine?) manufacturer. Somewhere along the line the truck was christened Ada, and slogged along with the petrol engine beside him in the cab, at a painful 25 or so. Must have taken much longer to get to the more far-flung tracks from Yorkshire than the usual blast in the racer. Apparently the "Jack-the-Lad" racing driver of the day used a bit of "kiddology" in the use of a transporter. They weren't really needed, but looked the part, and of course they were essential for the Continental trips that became more frequent. Peter's first "works" machinery was a D-Type arranged by Lofty England when the previous car was hors de combat. This car was comprehensively smashed at Snetterton in a rain storm (details please Mr Kitson) and Peter sustained relatively minor injuries. When he returned to Snett the following weekend the remains of the Jaguar had been loaded on to the trailer and left in the paddock with the Landrover. Keys still in ignition. Such innocent times indeed. Browns Lane could not help in the rebuild, but Peter found an ace panel beater who dismantled the monocoque rivet by rivet and eventually completed it. Apparently the rear fin was the only undamaged part of the bodywork! This car was ultimately sold to Neil Corner who used it to great effect. There were more tales of great interest in the development of the GT40 at Monza and Sebring and the dissapoinment of the early 289 engines. Not much more than road-tuned by all accounts. Peter was allowed to buy a kit of parts from Ford to build his own GT40, saving a good few quid in Purchase Tax of course. I think this chassis ultimately became the car Roger Wills now competes in. There was also talk of the open-topped spider version, but I cannot recall the details.( No notes taken this time Mr Leigh Trevail!)
The story concluded with some recollections of driving the works Ferrari P4 at Le Mans '67, it having been totally rebuilt overnight by a team of 14 engineers flown in by The Commendatore. Engine failure after 23 hours plus was unfortunatley due to the fact that the rebuild concentrated on the bodywork, the practice engine was left in situ due to lack of time. Oh, and I forgot the offer of a new Lightweight E-type and the works Ferrari drive at the '67 BOAC 500, the first major race I witnessed as a spectator. The evening wound down with some gentle joshing with Jack Sears, a great contempory of Peter's, and an interesting Q & A session. Great Stuff ...as ever; thanks to Steve Wyatt et al at FORC,

[sterling49]

I regret missing this Stephen, thanks for your account. I saw Peter race often and loved his drive in the P4, what a dream! I must look up the programme to see forthcoming events...............

[Giraffe]

Peter Sutcliffe and his wife pictured in his old GT40 at the recent Goodwood Revival.


By giraffe138 at 2011-09-19