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Formula 5000 - happy days!


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#501 Giraffe

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 21:15

Did Sheckter drive Chevron?

I thought it was a Trojan.


Trojan & then Lola, but that's another story...... :wave:

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#502 E1pix

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 21:18

Did Sheckter drive Chevron?

I thought it was a Trojan.

Yes, it was a Trojan, Jody never drove a Chevron IIRC. I meant Scheckter acquired the Delta Tire sponsorship (if Redman even had Delta, seems he did) not the car.

Whoops! :blush: :)

#503 E1pix

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 21:20

Trojan & then Lola, but that's another story...... :wave:

Correct, rented from a longtime friend of ours, Bob Lazier. I think a second T330 was rented as well, a question for Jerry Entin.

But primarily, Jody won the US title in a Trojan T101.

#504 Giraffe

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 21:27

Correct, rented from a longtime friend of ours, Bob Lazier. I think a second T330 was rented as well, a question for Jerry Entin.

But primarily, Jody won the US title in a Trojan T101.


The second T330 was bought new for Jody at his insistance with his winnings, something Jody disputed with me a few months ago! Let's say there was a bit of a misunderstanding......;)

Sam Winston (Winston Delta Tyres) came onboard with the Trojan, not the Chevron that Derek Bennett built for Brian at cost, Sid Taylor providing the engine.

Edited by Giraffe, 10 October 2011 - 21:33.


#505 E1pix

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 22:17

Sam Winston (Winston Delta Tyres) came onboard with the Trojan, not the Chevron that Derek Bennett built for Brian at cost, Sid Taylor providing the engine.

Thanks for the clarification, appreciate that!

#506 Martyn Hey

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 09:11

That is Gardner, giving the new Lola T330 its race debut. Frank had come back to the UK for 'just one race' as his Tarmac Championship title was under threat from Roger Williamson. Frank's 'slithery start' (as Autosport put it) meant that he dropped to third behind Brian Redman in the white Chevron B24 (next to Gardner in the photo) and Graham McRae who had a ding dong battle for the rest of the race, Redman winning by a whisker. Gardner's third place was enough to clinch his Tarmac Championship.

Edit: pipped by Alan



Thanks Tim for update on the Lola, realised the nose is a key difference on the T330. Remember he laid down a lot of rubber and having a fair bit of time to press the shutter...

#507 jj2728

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 21:56

I knew I had a photo of it somewhere. The Quickover for Hangover car from 1971.

Posted Image

Copyright JAG

#508 Alan Cox

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 14:21

From a distinctly indifferent collection of F5000 snaps from early 1974 (when I was experiencing a fault with the aperture on my otherwise trusty Zenit B)
24 March Mallory Park
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Brian Robinson's McLaren M89C battling with Clive Santo's Lola T330 (5th and 4th respectively)
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Mike Wilds' March 74A (2nd)
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Bob Evans (Lola T332) (3rd)
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Winner David Hobbs (Lola T330) on his lap of honour

Oulton Park 12 April
Posted ImagePosted Image
David Hobbs again

#509 philippe7

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 06:04

24 March Mallory Park
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Posted Image

Hmmm.......looks like I wasn't standing very far to your left on that day, Alan :wave:

#510 Giraffe

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 12:08

Here is a pic of Sid Taylor's first F5000 (if you discount the Lola T140 he borrowed & ran for Chris Craft at Phoenix Park in 1968), Lola T142 (SL142/20).
This was taken at Oulton Park on the weekend of the Tourist Trophy in May 1969, the month after the category had debuted in the UK. Brian Redman was driving Sid's T70 Mk3b in the TT.
Robin Widdows is about to take over from Brian who was having his first drive of a bespoke F5000 car.
I was prompted to post this pic as I stayed with mechanic Phil Bradford this last weekend who is pictured here to the right of the car behind Julian Randles. Sid and his brother Thomas are lurking behind the car.
The odd thing is that having spoken to everyone in the picture (with the exception of Robin Widdows, stage left), nobody has any recollection of the event or as to why the Lola had a red stripe rather than Sid's usual green.

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2011-10-18

#511 elansprint72

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 22:57

Another from Knicker Brook (or is that Kinckerbrook?).

1974 15th October. EDIT: April, not October, still freezing though. :blush:

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Edited by elansprint72, 20 October 2011 - 18:59.


#512 E1pix

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 23:21

Another from Knicker Brook (or is that Kinckerbrook?).

1974 15th October.

Cool pic, Elan, Teddy Pilette leading Hobbo?

#513 Twin Window

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 23:58

The odd thing is that having spoken to everyone in the picture (with the exception of Robin Widdows, stage left), nobody has any recollection of the event or as to why the Lola had a red stripe rather than Sid's usual green.

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By giraffe138 at 2011-10-18

I suspect, Tony, that the cause of confusion lies in the degredation of the film itself and not that of team members' memories!

It's not always reversable, but I'll have a stab at it the next time I'm on my pc. By the way, would the mechanic to the right of the car have expected to have been portrayed in green overalls?

#514 Giraffe

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 07:22

I suspect, Tony, that the cause of confusion lies in the degredation of the film itself and not that of team members' memories!


Well it was in the entry list for that opening race at Oulton the previous month as red & white, but it didn't run. :wave:

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2011-10-20

#515 snettertonesses

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 18:43

http://s210.photobuc.....0Glen F-5000/

i finally got my slides from Watkins Glen scanned ...1976
poured rain during the final, Al Unser led most of the way before Alan Jones got by for the win.

Edited by snettertonesses, 20 October 2011 - 18:43.


#516 E1pix

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 19:24

I suspect, Tony, that the cause of confusion lies in the degredation of the film itself and not that of team members' memories!

It's not always reversable, but I'll have a stab at it the next time I'm on my pc. By the way, would the mechanic to the right of the car have expected to have been portrayed in green overalls?

My guess is the reds are authentic in that image, I don't personally suspect any film could degrade greens into a red like this. Even if possible it seems the blues at left would have come along for the ride. Just MHO.

Edited by E1pix, 20 October 2011 - 19:26.


#517 Giraffe

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:20

Brian Robinson in his McLaren M19c in 1975 with March style nosecone

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2012-03-29

Photo courtesy of Phil Bradford.

Edited by Giraffe, 29 March 2012 - 10:20.


#518 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 20:53

Brian Robinson in his McLaren M19c in 1975 with March style nosecone

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2012-03-29

Photo courtesy of Phil Bradford.


Does he look tiny or does the car look huge? :drunk:

#519 arttidesco

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 21:06

Brian Robinson in his McLaren M19c in 1975 with March style nosecone

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2012-03-29

Photo courtesy of Phil Bradford.


Top image, but I believe the nose cone is a bit more Postlethwaite Hesketh 308 than March 731 :up:

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#520 small block

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 21:11

Brian Robinson in his McLaren M19c in 1975 with March style nosecone


Begging pardon for my inner pedant, but that looks more like a Hesketh nose...


#521 Giraffe

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:31

Begging pardon for my inner pedant, but that looks more like a Hesketh nose...


.....which is why I said "March style" nose. I have no idea where the nosecone originated, but I'll ask Phil to ask Brian himself. :wave:

#522 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:37


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McRae's GM1 after the race.

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Tasman champion McRae brought his Tasman GM1 over for the Rothmans race

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All photos copyright Martyn Hey
[/quote]

Compare and contrast the wings with those seen on McRaes in historic racing today...

#523 xj13v12

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:44

All photos copyright Martyn Hey


Compare and contrast the wings with those seen on McRaes in historic racing today...
[/quote]

There were a lot of GM1s made and they carried various wings. Also wings were altered over the several years of active competition. In historic racing the idea is to run the car as it ran at a particular moment in time. Generally this concept is adhered to. Therefore to pick one photo and say all McRae's should carry this wing is incorrect. Some carry single plane some dual plane. Some of these cars ran for years and carried half a dozen different wings. We should be thankful they are running at all.

#524 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:13

There were a lot of GM1s made and they carried various wings. Also wings were altered over the several years of active competition. In historic racing the idea is to run the car as it ran at a particular moment in time. Generally this concept is adhered to. Therefore to pick one photo and say all McRae's should carry this wing is incorrect. Some carry single plane some dual plane. Some of these cars ran for years and carried half a dozen different wings. We should be thankful they are running at all.


I agree absolutely - however the "snapshot" at any moment of time has to cover the whole car - generally the two plane wings as generally run today were later, so there should be deformable structures on the tub, the wing should move forward (the bigger two plane wings were introduced to recapture some of the perfomance lost by the 1974 rule change to move the rear wings back towards the car) and the whole car should represent the moment in history.
The selective choice of parts from a cars life becomes a menu - and historic motorsport should be a prix fixe, not a la carte.

#525 xj13v12

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:51

I agree absolutely - however the "snapshot" at any moment of time has to cover the whole car - generally the two plane wings as generally run today were later, so there should be deformable structures on the tub, the wing should move forward (the bigger two plane wings were introduced to recapture some of the perfomance lost by the 1974 rule change to move the rear wings back towards the car) and the whole car should represent the moment in history.
The selective choice of parts from a cars life becomes a menu - and historic motorsport should be a prix fixe, not a la carte.


I agree again, in an ideal world. The more owners who can be convinced of this (and not pursuaded by perceived performance advantages or financial factors) the better. The ultimate aim should be to capture a time capsule and display it but as we all know that is extraordinarily difficult at times, neverthless the noble aim.

#526 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 11:57

So is anyone running a Matich with two rear wings?

Frank ran this in '72 IIRC.

And for serious F5000 followers, our book on F5000 in NZ and Australia goes to the printer this week. It's now 400 pages and loaded with pics and stories.

#527 E1pix

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 19:16

:up: Bloody AWESOME, Ray!

Sincerest Congratulations.

#528 John Brundage

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:05

So is anyone running a Matich with two rear wings?

Frank ran this in '72 IIRC.

And for serious F5000 followers, our book on F5000 in NZ and Australia goes to the printer this week. It's now 400 pages and loaded with pics and stories.

Ray,
I tried to PM you but your mailbox is full. How can I get a couple copies in the USA?
Please PM.
Thank you

#529 E1pix

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:16

Will your book be on Amazon, Ray?

And what is the Title?

#530 Giraffe

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:12

Will your book be on Amazon, Ray?

And what is the Title?



"FORMULA 5000 MOTOR RACING....down under...and not over"??? :smoking:

Edited by Giraffe, 31 March 2012 - 07:13.


#531 ellrosso

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:05

Wow, 400 pages! Its certainly jumped up from when I first spoke to Tony - I'll have to put some right angle brackets on the coffee table.......... Cant wait to see it.

#532 Stephen W

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:06

For those who also visit FACEBOOK there is the following group:

F5000 Racing Cars

:wave:

#533 xj13v12

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:08

So is anyone running a Matich with two rear wings?

Frank ran this in '72 IIRC.

And for serious F5000 followers, our book on F5000 in NZ and Australia goes to the printer this week. It's now 400 pages and loaded with pics and stories.


The original Matich is running bi-plane Lola type as later run by Briggs, the Walker/Davo car has the wing Davo had Garry Cooper build for him and the Goss AGP winner has one of the later style wings that Goss ran. No one is running the original Repco-Matich wing which is very similar to the Surtees wing of the time.

#534 xj13v12

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:15

The original Matich is running bi-plane Lola type as later run by Briggs, the Walker/Davo car has the wing Davo had Garry Cooper build for him and the Goss AGP winner has one of the later style wings that Goss ran. No one is running the original Repco-Matich wing which is very similar to the Surtees wing of the time.


Sorry Ray, I just realised you mean the full double rear wing that both Frank and Walker ran here and in the L&M. No is the short answer. A pity as the idea had merit being an attempt at a diffuser or to capture what was coming from under the car as well as over it. Frank got the idea from seeing an Indy car experimenting with it during his tyre testing in the states. Jim McElreath I think.

#535 E1pix

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 10:29

"FORMULA 5000 MOTOR RACING....down under...and not over"??? :smoking:

:wave: You mean not over 5 liter(re)s?  ;)

Sorry... long day, dawn soon. :)


Sounds like a great book even if not about anywhere in the N. Hemi. :cool:

#536 Giraffe

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 20:39

:wave: You mean not over 5 liter(re)s? ;)


It was a parody of the title of Derek Lawson's book, but you do have a point I must admit! :smoking:

#537 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 21:55

Originally posed by E1pix'
Will your book be on Amazon, Ray?

And what is the Title?


The title (and the cover...) are here:

http://www.automotob...981-p-4929.html

To be honest, I don't know if it will be on Amazon.

#538 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 22:35

Originally posted by John Brundage
Ray,
I tried to PM you but your mailbox is full. How can I get a couple copies in the USA?
Please PM.


That's right, my PMs are permanently full...

However, my e.mail address is a simple click on the bottom of each post I make. r@ybell.net is all you need.

US drivers contributing to or photographed in the book include:

David Hobbs
Rich Galloway
Rex Ramsey
Ron Grable
Bill Simpson
Mike Goth
John Cannon
Ed Polley
Don Breidenbach
John Briggs
Mike Eyerly
Salt Walther

But what I really like about how it's come up is the way many contributors have really let their hair down. Niel Allen in his quiet and unassuming way has said so much about his feelings about driving these cars; Rob Newman lets us see behind the scenes of the character of John Walker in the wake of Max Stewart's death, very graphic; Tania Langsford has said so much about Colin Trengove's life and death, and her own experiences, that it's very revealing; John Leffler's revelations about how he got there is well worth the read; Warwick Brown describes that vicious accident at Surfers, through which he remained conscious the whole time; Peter Molloy tells what he thinks about the drivers who came to him for guidance; John McCormack comes through as the whole driver that he really was; Between the Alan Hamilton and Alfie Costanzo stories there's just so much to be learned.

I have to say, as each story came in and I saw the depth of feeling in them, and as I spoke to each one for whom I wrote the stories I found the expressions warm and sincere.

Graeme Lawrence, for instance, tells how he was vying with Max Stewart for the other front row grid spot at Calder that day in 1977, how he came down the straight and saw the stickered tyres on Max Stewart's car as he came out for another attempt at a time, how he went round the outside of Chas Talbot in Repco then found that Chas was closing on the very slow Elfin of Vern Schuppan, which was on the left side of the road, and thought, "I hope Max sees that..."

A lot of it is touching, as the human side comes out along with the raw power, the brute force, the imposing presence (Jon Davison refers to it as 'sense of occasion') of these cars.

Other Kiwi contributions came from Chris Amon, Kenny Smith and David Oxton... as well as Graham McRae's story from Michael Clark and many pages of photos from Terry Marshall.

That's only touching the surface. Vast numbers of photos never seen before, images have come out of the woodwork for this book, I can tell you.

It's all about Cinquelitre Monopostos...

Forewords by Kevin Bartlett, Vern Schuppan, Jim Shepherd and Warwick Brown.

#539 E1pix

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 23:30

It was a parody of the title of Derek Lawson's book, but you do have a point I must admit! :smoking:

 ;) :)

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#540 Fred.R

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 00:28

Looking forward to the book but a slight criticism, could they not have come up with more "bogan" * cover art. Or is this a reflection of the percived target market and motor sport ingeneral in australia (and the world ?)

* ( insert bevan, westie, greaser, Chav etc as to what is applicable to your geographic area)

#541 GreenMachine

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:02

Looking forward to the book but a slight criticism, could they not have come up with more "bogan" * cover art. Or is this a reflection of the percived target market and motor sport ingeneral in australia (and the world ?)

* ( insert bevan, westie, greaser, Chav etc as to what is applicable to your geographic area)



I presume it's a d/w, so just throw it in the bin if it is that bad. Alternatively, remember when you were a schoolkid, and had to cover your books ... make your own cover on the computer, and live happily ever after :rotfl:

You won't see it when the book is open, or in the bookshelf, so it shouldn't be a major problem ...  ;)

#542 picblanc

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:45

Book sounds & looks great to me. :up:

#543 jj2728

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 13:23

Mid-Ohio 1973 IIRC
Posted Image

copyright JAG

#544 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 20:57

Certainly looks to be Mid Ohio...

And there's a bunch of expensive rubber there about to be shredded!

Who are the parties in view?

#545 JacnGille

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 01:35

Certainly looks to be Mid Ohio...

Who are the parties in view?

The Haggar Slacks sponsorship and the sideburns would suggest The Upper Boddington Flash, David Hobbs. :)

#546 E1pix

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 01:57

... Who are the parties in view?

Yep, UB Flash indeed. :up: One of the really good guys in racing. Teammate was Brett Lunger, both driving T330 Lolas for Carl Hogan.

The car in front looks like a McRae to me, which could mean Gordon Smiley (old friend :cry: ), Graham McRae, Chuck Sarich, Jon Woodner, Evan Noyes, or... who else had a McRae in '73?... Gordon Meffert.

Based on the helmet and driver build, my money's on Sarich or Woodner. All theoretical, in my assuming it's a McRae at all.

#547 jjordan

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 19:52

I was there that day working for Smiley....I think it looks like Woodner.

#548 E1pix

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 20:36

I was there that day working for Smiley....I think it looks like Woodner.

Just in case your prefs aren't set up to notify you, I've PMed you.

I think you're right, I now recall Jon having that two-tone uniform. That must have been a great weekend for you guys, it seems Gordon got a 5th?

Thanks for the reply. :up:


Edit: With apologies for not being F5000, this is remarkable for myself and likely for jjordan as well — and a much finer tribute to Gordon compared to what's online. Blows me away to be honest, and Mr. Smiley was the last American to win an F1 race (non-Championship):
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu

Edited by E1pix, 03 April 2012 - 20:54.


#549 Marc Sproule

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:03

And here are two of GSmiley in an Atlantic car in '76.....


http://www.flickr.co...157623243933553

http://www.flickr.co...57623243933553/



#550 xj13v12

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:05

[quote name='E1pix' date='Apr 4 2012, 07:36' post='5642262']
Just in case your prefs aren't set up to notify you, I've PMed you.

I think you're right, I now recall Jon having that two-tone uniform. That must have been a great weekend for you guys, it seems Gordon got a 5th?

Thanks for the reply. :up:


Am I imagining it or does this terrific old footage capture the essence of speed and racing better than digital super slow-mo and multiple camera angles that we have become accustomed to?