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Formula 5000 - happy days!


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#551 Duc-Man

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 15:37

Am I imagining it or does this terrific old footage capture the essence of speed and racing better than digital super slow-mo and multiple camera angles that we have become accustomed to?


It's an optical illusion. The cars were slightly slower but their design looked much faster. :up:

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#552 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 23:47

This is a cropped version of the photo that greets those who open our book...

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Just for laughs, how about we see if anyone can pick:

The cars

The car configurations

The drivers

And for anyone not yet sure that these cars got up and boogied:

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...or that these drivers didn't try hard:

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Just three of the pics... three of over a thousand.

#553 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 00:22

This is a cropped version of the photo that greets those who open our book...

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Just for laughs, how about we see if anyone can pick:

The cars

The car configurations

The drivers

And for anyone not yet sure that these cars got up and boogied:

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...or that these drivers didn't try hard:

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Just three of the pics... three of over a thousand.

That last pic in particular typifies what people remember about 5000s in their good days.
All excellent pics. Thanks Ray.

#554 E1pix

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:40

Am I imagining it or does this terrific old footage capture the essence of speed and racing better than digital super slow-mo and multiple camera angles that we have become accustomed to?

:up: Yes, there's nostalgia in the old ways... and one reason why I still shoot film. It's real, and tangible. Did I mention "real?"

Or maybe I just like things I can hold in my hands instead of cussing at something I can't. ;)

It's an optical illusion. The cars were slightly slower but their design looked much faster. :up:

:up: Love that. Emphasis on 'slightly,' and with tires I wouldn't trust my Jetta on. I wish somebody, somewhere, somehow, would start building new F5000 cars and do it all over again.

:up: Nice images, Ray!

#555 Wirra

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:05

E1pix - You must let me know the name of your optometrist, I would like a pair of those rose-coloured glasses you have!

I agree that F5000 were/are fascinating cars but I recall you were lucky if 80% turned up or made it through practice, the ‘race’ as such was over after 5 laps and you then watched the mechanical attrition rate climb as a handful of cars running crossed the line.

That said I’d still walk over hot coals to see them today - roll on the next Tasman Revival.

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Edited by Wirra, 05 April 2012 - 03:16.


#556 JacnGille

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:27

E1pix - You must let me know the name of your optometrist, I would like a pair of those rose-coloured glasses you have!

I agree that F5000 were/are fascinating cars but I recall you were lucky if 80% turned up or made it through practice, the ‘race’ as such was over after 5 laps and you then watched the mechanical attrition rate climb as a handful of cars running crossed the line.

That said I’d still walk over hot coals to see them today - roll on the next Tasman Revival.

I remember things being better than that here in "The Colonies". One of my most memorable races ever was the '75 race here at Road Atlanta. The rain came and went more than once, as did the running order, making it very dramatic as far as when to pit for rains or drys. The sight of Redman, Andretti, Unser and Ongias weaving down the front straight looking for puddles with the remnants of their rain tires "raining down" all the while scanning their pit boards for instructions to stay out or come in for a change...I remember as if it were yesterday. The '76 race I drove up to Mid Ohio to see wasn't a snoozer either.

Edited by JacnGille, 05 April 2012 - 03:29.


#557 E1pix

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:08

:up: Like he said. :up:


:lol: Wirra, if you hold my glasses against a watermelon, they do take on just a bit of rosy hue.

OH... the optometrist is www.ClearAsGlassEyewear.com

;)



#558 Wirra

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:39

Okay... So we have one good race in 1975 where it was wet and saved a whole bunch of transmission failures and we have another not-so-bad race in 1976... You've convinced me!

Photo of a local hero Down Under for the Nth Americans.
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#559 E1pix

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:55

Okay... So we have one good race in 1975 where it was wet and saved a whole bunch of transmission failures and we have another not-so-bad race in 1976... You've convinced me!

With absolutely no disrespect intended... I think it's not a stretch to say the rest of us on this Thread absolutely loved/love our recollections of the Series'.

During the one F5000 race per year minimum I personally witnessed, from 1968 through our US Series' end in 1976 (I worked 3 races that year in "reporter" capacity), the formula remained solid and beloved... and I've been to over 200 major Pro events. F5000 racing was competitive and a joy to behold.

If remembering the good things is "rose-colored" then pink 'em up until I can't see a lick. Here in the US more than half of the starters finished in F5000 races, and that was in 100-mile races, not '5 laps of racing with 5 cars eventually finishing.' Specific to the US Series, I'm trying to picture Andretti, Redman, Ongais, Oliver, Jones, Gethin, Schuppan, Hobbs, Unser, Lunger, Brown, Brise, Pilette, McRae, Johncock, Swanson, Woodner, Wietzes, etc. getting it all wrong. They all competed here in 1975-76, the years you mention.


But Thanks for the photo of Sam Posey. :up:

Edited by E1pix, 05 April 2012 - 09:24.


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#560 Wirra

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:29

I am sorry that you have failed to see the Aussie humour in my posts - as Jerry Seinfeld once said, “there should be a special font one can use to indicate the light-hearted intent”.



#561 E1pix

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:09

I am sorry that you have failed to see the Aussie humour in my posts - as Jerry Seinfeld once said, “there should be a special font one can use to indicate the light-hearted intent”.

I admit I did miss your light-heartedness. Whoops, far be it for me to miss a joke! :)

Yes, "special font" = moticons for us Americans.

But... Jerry Who? ;)

Edited by E1pix, 05 April 2012 - 09:30.


#562 xj13v12

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:30

With absolutely no disrespect intended... I think it's not a stretch to say the rest of us on this Thread absolutely loved/love our recollections of the Series'.

During the one F5000 race per year minimum I personally witnessed, from 1968 through our US Series' end in 1976 (I worked 3 races that year in "reporter" capacity), the formula remained solid and beloved... and I've been to over 200 major Pro events. F5000 racing was competitive and a joy to behold.

If remembering the good things is "rose-colored" then pink 'em up until I can't see a lick. Here in the US more than half of the starters finished in F5000 races, and that was in 100-mile races, not '5 laps of racing with 5 cars eventually finishing.' Specific to the US Series, I'm trying to picture Andretti, Redman, Ongais, Oliver, Jones, Gethin, Schuppan, Hobbs, Unser, Lunger, Brown, Brise, Pilette, McRae, Johncock, Swanson, Woodner, Wietzes, etc. getting it all wrong. They all competed here in 1975-76, the years you mention.


But Thanks for the photo of Sam Posey. :up:


That list of names is enough to indicate the quality of the field and yes in the States the fields were large so the attrition rate still left real racing on the track. I think we are more reliable today due to engine components and shorter races but due to modern tyres and lack of that extreme level of skill you will probably never see something like that fantastic shot of John Goss at that unbelievable angle. There is a similar shot of K.B. chasing Goss also exhibiting a excess of attack angle stretching the bounds of grip levels available at that time. I am sure that this book will have many examples of that.

#563 E1pix

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:22

Back on track in F5000's Glory Days, Teddy Pilette consults with his crew before taking his first race practice run in the brand-new Lola T430, Pocono 1976 (car now lives Down Under):

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In early 1976, I released a 24-page newsprint magazine called Eric's Race Reports. Though it was extremely well-received for a kid's production, funds were hard to come by for Issue 2. With the new name of Eric's Race Reports & Autocomp, and my already having lots of friends in racing, it didn't happen... despite a team of Pro drivers offering to cover articles for me in F5000, F-Atlantic, Trans-Am, Super Vee, and Club races. I was 15 and despite selling (and later refunding) nearly enough adverts, I fell just slightly short on the printing resources — after making the later-questionable deal with my Dad that I'd either cover production expenses, or carry on to my self-funded karting program. I was really "Jonesing" to race — some things never change, and my American term is sans any Alan J. reference — so it wasn't a hard decision at the time.

My decal, drawn with a Bic pen in Art Class and printed in my backwater town, is visible behind the front wheels on this John Cannon-owned, Don Breidenbach-driven March 75A. Perhaps there was something about a kid with a quivering lower lip that made such unpaid "sponsorship" possible ( ;) )... but my decal appeared on over a dozen Pro cars and several dozen Club cars in the States.

Road America, also 1976:

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Here's the one issue I did, edited from my original 70,000 words of copy down to 16,000, to fit 24 pages with photos. The lower cover photo shows eventual winner Jim Trueman in 2nd place in C Sports Racing at the 1975 SCCA Runoffs at Road Atlanta. Jim was Founder of Red Roof Inns and Truesports Racing, for whom his driver Bobby Rahal won the Indy 500 11 years later... 11 days before cancer claimed Mr. Trueman. But he and his longtime driver's decade-long goal was reached, and Jim witnessed it — and provided perhaps the most-touching victory celebration in Indy history:

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Edited by E1pix, 05 April 2012 - 11:06.


#564 Wirra

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:06

Back on track in F5000's Glory Days, Teddy Pilette consults with his crew before taking his first race practice run in the brand-new Lola T430, Pocono 1976 (car now lives Down Under):

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...

Teddy Pilette off track - another DNF
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PS. It's a joke.

#565 E1pix

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:08

PS. It's a joke.

:lol:

Nope, that's Teddy all right. ;)

#566 lyntonh

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:49

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I wish I'd taken that shot, Peter, it's a cracker!!

#567 Tony Matthews

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:59

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Parallel parking as it should be done.

#568 Wirra

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:12

There is a kind of Homer Simpson moment about it isn't there? A pity the colour has gone after all these years.

#569 bill p

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:18

A pity the colour has gone after all these years.


A bit of enhancement!

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#570 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:58

And Teddy was no joke...

Mary Packard fielded a phone call from him when he first arrived in Sydney. Mary was one of the core staff of the AARC, the promoters at Warwick Farm.

She told how there was no way she could understand his pronunciation of his surname to identify who was calling!

Wirra is right in saying that a lot of F5000 races deteriorated into five-car processions. But many didn't do so. And even when they did, there was still more F5000s on the track than there were 2.5-litre cars (our National F1 prior to the introduction of F5000) at the beginning of many of their races.

There was one 2.5-litre race at Warwick Farm that was won by Leo Geoghegan in a Lotus 32 with 1.5 engine. All the 2.5s had 'left the building'. Or all with any turn of speed, anyway. True, a 1.6 Elfin 600 did win at Symmons Plains in 1971, the first year of the F5000s contesting the Gold Star, but only four F5000s were running and it was atrociously wet.

But even one car on its own could be exciting to watch, so five of them still made a nice sight.

#571 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 14:07

But even one car on its own could be exciting to watch, so five of them still made a nice sight.


You're not wrong Ray! :up: ...and a nice sound too.

#572 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 14:18

I do wish I had a photo of Warwick Brown from the day I saw him at the Warwick Farm short circuit...

At the end of the practice sessions, Peter Molloy got the drivers to do a few laps 'the wrong way' around the circuit, and that Paddock Bend was very conducive to tail-out motoring. The M10B was a real sight as Warwick gunned it onto Pit Straight!

Edited by Ray Bell, 05 April 2012 - 20:46.


#573 jj2728

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 21:54

Back on track in F5000's Glory Days, Teddy Pilette consults with his crew before taking his first race practice run in the brand-new Lola T430, Pocono 1976 (car now lives Down Under):

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Excellent photos E1!

#574 ellrosso

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:07

Yes great shots as always Eric.

#575 E1pix

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 23:25

Thanks, Guys! :)

I was only 15 for those, so of course the cleanup and prep now is rather excruciating.

#576 Twin Window

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 23:52

I'm enjoying this thread.

F5000 was, for me - as a UK teen - the absolute 'nads, and only just behind F1 circa '72-'74...

#577 Catalina Park

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 23:54

But even one car on its own could be exciting to watch, so five of them still made a nice sight.

Sorry but four cars at Amaroo in a Gold Star round was not really exciting.


#578 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 00:10

I only ever saw 5000s at AIR and on TV. Yes they often had little depth, especially here in SA but were also at times very exciting too watch if you had a dice going.
Rays pic of Gossy backing it in to the corner while unusual still typifies the agression needed to make those things so fast. Goss was probably more flamboyant than most but the car in front was also 'loose' off the corner
We do not see much of that now as historics, a little frustrating really as the owners are a bit more circumspect.And I doubt the tyres being used would tolerate that as much. James Davison at PI was the most agressive but things still broke as they did in the day!

And I once attended a circuit sprint at AIR. One car at a time and the fastest and the car that was watched the most. Colin Trengrove in his Lola 5000!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 06 April 2012 - 00:13.


#579 Wirra

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 00:20

... Goss was probably more flamboyant ...

John Goss drove all his 5.0+ltr cars like that!

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Edited by Wirra, 06 April 2012 - 07:02.


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#580 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 00:22

Colin Trengove's story is one of the real treasures of our book, IMO...

But there are many good stories.

Please note, Lee, there is only one 'r' in 'Trengove.' A much-mispronounced and misspelled name.

#581 Wirra

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:25

This is a cropped version of the photo that greets those who open our book...

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...

Oran Park Tasman 1975?

#582 E1pix

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:05

... F5000 was, for me - as a UK teen - the absolute 'nads, and only just behind F1 circa '72-'74...

That's what I'm talking about. :up:

#583 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:43

Originally posted by Wirra
Oran Park Tasman 1975?


Not Tasman... not 1975...

Oran Park Gold Star 1974. But the question relates to:

The cars

Their configuration

The drivers


#584 Wirra

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 04:17

Max is gone?
Order
2 Walker Lola T330 Holden
3 Brown Lola T332 Chev
4 Lawrence Lola T332 Chev
5 McCormack Elfin ML6 Leyland
6 Goss Matich A53 Holden
7 Davison Matich A50 (still Matich orange)
8 Moore Elfin MR5 Holden
9 Bartlett Lola T330 Chev
10 Leffler Bowin 1.6ltr Ford
11 Cooper Elfin MR5 Holden


Edited by Wirra, 06 April 2012 - 04:51.


#585 ellrosso

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 04:34

I can recall a few "major" Touring car rounds which fizzled out into very processional races with more than a few "walking wounded" too, so it wasn't just F5000 events back in the day. When it was a good race though (and there were a good few) they were terrific to watch and not that much slower than F1 back then either.

#586 Lola5000

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:41

talking to a T430 driver today,asked me about Rays book,told him ect ect said "Unless theres a chapter to me ,I'm not buying it,shall read yours instead"
guess who.

#587 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:58

John Goss drove all his 5.0ltr cars like that!

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Spank your backside. That is a Falcon GT which is 5800cc not these overhyped 5 litre stockcars they demonstrate with these days.

#588 xj13v12

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:56

Max is gone?
Order
2 Walker Lola T330 Holden
3 Brown Lola T332 Chev
4 Lawrence Lola T332 Chev
5 McCormack Elfin ML6 Leyland
6 Goss Matich A53 Holden
7 Davison Matich A50 (still Matich orange)
8 Moore Elfin MR5 Holden
9 Bartlett Lola T330 Chev
10 Leffler Bowin 1.6ltr Ford
11 Cooper Elfin MR5 Holden

Actually the Walker/Davo orange was a different colour to the Matich (McLaren) orange. Only used it for that one race I think??

#589 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:28

Also at Amaroo a week or two either before or after the Oran Park event...

We have a nice colour pic in the book of Davo leading Walker at the Stop corner, nice and close in, very sharp pic.

And yes, Walker did have a different orange to Matich.

By the way, Peter, good job on the line-up there. Except that Cooper isn't visible at all... and yes, Max is gone.

#590 Wirra

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:43

I thought it was Garrie's front but that part would be white.
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Thankfully I don't recall this revolting livery on the Bowin.
http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

Edited by Wirra, 06 April 2012 - 09:03.


#591 Stephen W

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:22

For me the biggest drawback to the early F5000 races was the rate of attrition and I guess that the organisers thought this might happen as all sorts of F.Libre cars were also run in amongst the F5000s. Thesecond biggest drawback was the variation in talent of the drivers some of whom were F1 material and others would have been uncompetitive in a race against F3 cars!

:wave:

#592 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:46

Some fabulous Snetterton F5000 memories from photographer Mike Dixon. Note his copyright. You can send me an e-mail to info@andrewkitson.com if anyone is interested in purchasing copies of his work. I can put you in touch. Ted Walker at Ferret owns a lot of Mike’s work too and may also have pictures from these meetings.

Good Friday 9th April 1971
Ray Allen in the Pink Stamps M10B
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Trevor Taylor in the Malaya Garages Leda exits the fearsome and dangerous Russell Bend. But what a bend….put it back!
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Brian Redman in Sid Taylor’s M18
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Rob Taylor in the Kitchmac at Russell.
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Now we move to August 30th 1971. A race in two heats won by Graham McRae after Gardner and Redman took each other off.

Brian Redman..fully committed to the second part of the Esses, known as the ‘Bombhole’ today.
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As is Mike Hailwood in the works TS8.
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Another TS8. Alan Rollinson in the McKechnie car.
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Gordon Spice, M10B
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Teddy Pilette in the Team VDS M10B
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Redman leads Gardner and McRae through the Esses.
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Redman & Gardner. Two of the greats of Formula 5000.
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Gardner leads McRae into the Esses
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…and out of the Esses
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Then it happened..Gardner & Redman tripped each other up at the end of the Home Straight. Both unhurt.
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Meanwhile Terry Sanger battles with the Harrier, Dave Berry’s BT16/21 Rover behind.
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Tony Trimmer TS5A ahead of Spice
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Mike Walker in Doug Hardwick’s Lola ahead of Hawtin’s Cooper.
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Fabulous shots, sure you’ll agree. More soon..


#593 jj2728

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 14:29

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Copyright JAG

#594 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 15:58

It seems Gardner had a lucky charm in the T300s...

He crashed at least three times, this one looks like the kind of thing that damaged other drivers' legs severely, yet he walked away.

Good shots, thanks.

#595 jjordan

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 19:33

Got to go with Twinny on this, the 5000 cars were the top of the heap for me. Everyone, thanks for the pictures, I could look at the these all day long. Andrew not much in the way of run-off room on the outside at the end of that straight! Being involved in the American series in the early seventies, I don't remember attrition being very severe. I remember huge, deep fields where many teams didn't have to spend the moon to be in the hunt. You could buy the chassis and an engine and didn't have to have a bus-load of engineers or a wind tunnel to be in the front half of the grid. Those were the days or did I get a pair of those rose colored shades that E1 was selling?

#596 jj2728

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 20:21

Mid-Ohio
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Copyright JAG

#597 jj2728

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 20:33

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Copyright JAG

#598 JacnGille

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 00:16

Great pics, Jag!


#599 Wirra

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 00:34

...Posted Image
...

Fabulous photo, it says so much about both men and the times.

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#600 ellrosso

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:40

Yes classic shot Peter, different world........