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Formula 5000 - happy days!


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#701 norco

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:56

It is indeed Fred Place at the wheel and the photo came from him.
He borrowed the car as the Cooper he owned had engine problems, he had sorted a replacement engine but could not get an exhaust in time.



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#702 elansprint72

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:24

Come on fellows...

Was it really that bad?

It looks very purposeful there. In particular it looks like a strong car.

I remember at the time thinking that it looked a very business-like piece of design; not perhaps the prettiest but a decent package.

#703 275 GTB-4

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:58

Posted Image

Another of the Dulon - Anderstorp 1970.


Top shot Norco...BTW...any connection?? :-)


5 June 1895
The North Coast Fresh Food & Cold Storage Co-operative Company Ltd (NORCO) began operations at Byron Bay (NSW).





#704 Wirra

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:09

Posted Image
...

Not too different in style from the early Lola F5000s

Posted Image

Posted Image


#705 Stephen W

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:29

Surtees TS5-7Posted Image

Crossle ?
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That doesn't look like a genuine chassis plate!

And yes it certainly is a Crossle.

:wave:

#706 MCS

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:43

The Dulon to me is better looking than the Kitchener. That is one ugly car and probably slower than its M10? base.


:lol: Fair enough - I think you have a point there! The K3A is the ugly one; the Kitchmac ws the M10 (B?) derivative.


#707 Duc-Man

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 17:00

That doesn't look like a genuine chassis plate!

And yes it certainly is a Crossle.

:wave:

I know it's a Crossle. I tried to indicate that I don't know the type by using the questionmark... :wave:
I don't know much about Crossle at all. Can somebody point me to a good read about them on the web?

#708 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 17:15

There's very good info about Crosslé on the Old Racing Cars site:

http://www.oldracing.../f5000/crossle/

Edited by Tim Murray, 16 April 2012 - 17:19.


#709 richie

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 20:07

It is indeed Fred Place at the wheel and the photo came from him.
He borrowed the car as the Cooper he owned had engine problems, he had sorted a replacement engine but could not get an exhaust in time.



Can you get any more pictures from Fred Place of the Cooper T86 he raced?

#710 norco

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:07

Posted Image

Can you get any more pictures from Fred Place of the Cooper T86 he raced?

This is Hockenheim 1970, T86C without the nose.

#711 Stephen W

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:10

I don't know much about Crossle at all. Can somebody point me to a good read about them on the web?


There was a small booklet printed about Crossle that covers all the models up to and including 1987.

30 Years of Winning - A pictorial history of the Crossle Car Company

It was "Compiled by Alan Tyndall" and published jointly by Crossle Car Company and the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum

ISBN 0 902588 31 1

The F5000 run by Fred Saunders et al was the 15F and I believe three in total were built.

:wave:

#712 E1pix

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:57

Posted Image
This is Hockenheim 1970, T86C without the nose.

Niiiiiice. :up:

#713 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:36

Niiiiiice. :up:


I second that! :up: A racing car that looks like it will bite your legs if you don't behave!

#714 norco

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:54

I second that! :up: A racing car that looks like it will bite your legs if you don't behave!

Fred tells me it was ok in a straight line but didn't like going around bends.





#715 E1pix

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 18:43

That does sound like a bit of a problem.  ;)

#716 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:25

Courtesy of Pierre Vitoux (who has the copyright for these images) - F5000s from Nivelles, 1972:

http://imageshack.us...otus70fordf.jpg
Jock Russell's Lotus 70- Ford

http://imageshack.us...mclarenm22c.jpg
Teddy Pilette's McLaren M22-Chevy



#717 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:57

Courtesy of Pierre Vitoux (who has the copyright for these images) - F5000s from Nivelles, 1972:
http://imageshack.us...mclarenm22c.jpg
Teddy Pilette's McLaren M22-Chevy


I know it wasn't that successful, but the McLaren was such a good looking car ! :love:

#718 eldougo

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:30

[quote name='norco' post='5666595' date='
This is Hockenheim 1970, T86C without the nose.[/quote]

That is the nose of Cooper . Ugly. They used a large opening to cool the Maserati and BRM they used in 1968/69.

Edited by eldougo, 18 April 2012 - 09:31.


#719 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:50

[quote name='eldougo' post='5668390' date='Apr 18 2012, 10:30'][quote name='norco' post='5666595' date='
This is Hockenheim 1970, T86C without the nose.

That is the nose of Cooper . Ugly. They used a large opening to cool the Maserati and BRM they used in 1968/69.[/quote]

Rob Walker is interviewed on a video clip somewhere saying the Maserati engine overheated after about 2 laps with the original Cooper nose, requiring sudden surgery...

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#720 norco

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 13:22

Posted Image

T86C with the nose fitted

Rob Walker is interviewed on a video clip somewhere saying the Maserati engine overheated after about 2 laps with the original Cooper nose, requiring sudden surgery...



#721 richie

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 19:23

Posted Image

T86C with the nose fitted


Great photos, how many seasons did he race and what became of the Cooper?

#722 norco

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 20:40

Great photos, how many seasons did he race and what became of the Cooper?

Unraced in F1, F1-3-68 was bought as a rolling chassis by Fred. He ran it in the 1970 season, when it went through 3 engines. It was stolen in 1971 from his premises, the police returned it intact several months later. Sold on and eventually ended up in the USA. Now owned by Ron Maydon (Masters Series), it blew another engine on it's last outing. Ron invited Fred to Magny Cours a couple of years back to see it again at a Masters Series event. Somewhere along the line it was painted red, it was green when it left the Cooper works.

#723 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:12

Unraced in F1, F1-3-68 was bought as a rolling chassis by Fred. He ran it in the 1970 season, when it went through 3 engines. It was stolen in 1971 from his premises, the police returned it intact several months later. Sold on and eventually ended up in the USA. Now owned by Ron Maydon (Masters Series), it blew another engine on it's last outing. Ron invited Fred to Magny Cours a couple of years back to see it again at a Masters Series event. Somewhere along the line it was painted red, it was green when it left the Cooper works.


What engine does it currently run?

#724 norco

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:12

What engine does it currently run?

The last time I saw it, there was an Alfa Romeo engine fitted, back to 3L F1 spec.
The Hewland DG300 gearbox is the one fitted by Fred which was purchased second hand from Ken Tyrrell.

#725 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:40

The last time I saw it, there was an Alfa Romeo engine fitted, back to 3L F1 spec.
The Hewland DG300 gearbox is the one fitted by Fred which was purchased second hand from Ken Tyrrell.


Ah! That sounds like the one which appeared at the last Coys Festival at Silverstone about 11-12 years ago?

#726 charles r

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 15:28

Is it this one?

http://www.flickr.co...glf/3278981332/

#727 timf5000

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 16:55

The last time I saw it, there was an Alfa Romeo engine fitted, back to 3L F1 spec.
The Hewland DG300 gearbox is the one fitted by Fred which was purchased second hand from Ken Tyrrell.


Seem to have read somewhere (this forum?) that it now runs an Alfa Montreal lump.

#728 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 20:29

Is it this one?

http://www.flickr.co...glf/3278981332/


Thats the one!




#729 E1pix

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 20:35

Is it this one?

http://www.flickr.co...glf/3278981332/

Wow, that has to be one "aggressive" ride! Lotsa motor, not so much chassis. :eek:

#730 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 21:53

New wheels too...

Doesn't look so 'historic' with them.

#731 John Brundage

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 22:53

His helmet is above the roll bar


#732 norco

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:21

Posted Image
The roll bar was always low, Fred Place seen here in 1970 on an early outing in T86C. (F1-3-68).


His helmet is above the roll bar



#733 E1pix

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:41

Never fails to amaze me that this bar height was considered ""safe enough" back then... ignoring belt tightness, stretch(es), Gs, impact collapse, other "minor things" like that.

#734 ellrosso

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:42

Few random shots from 1978.

Posted Image
Ian Adams Lola T330 Winton
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Graham McRae Sandown
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Gary Dumbrell McRae GM1 Sandown

#735 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:22

Posted Image
The roll bar was always low, Fred Place seen here in 1970 on an early outing in T86C. (F1-3-68).


Norco - could I get an enlargement of that picture please? There is a big gap in the history of the T86C and there are distinctive features on your picture that should allow a definitive comparison with the modern car.

Many thanks


#736 E1pix

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:06

Posted Image
Gary Dumbrell McRae GM1 Sandown

Great photos, Ellrosso! :up:

Especially intriguing to me are the "pod mods" on the GM1, I've never seen that customization on any GM1.

Edited by E1pix, 21 April 2012 - 21:06.


#737 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:32

Posted Image
Ian Adams Lola T330 Winton


Nice shot! Unusual angle. Great lighting. Strange airbox....

#738 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:49

There were other cars had similar airbox mods in that final couple of years...

This photo is in fact from 1981, undoubtedly the Rose City 10,000 in October that year. Ken Shirvington's car was among those which ditched the high airbox and went with these 'ears', I think there was some overall move to make the cars look more 'modern' for the time.

Adams, of course, was a special case in this class. As a Seventh Day Adventist, he would not practice on a Saturday, so he was a rear-of-the-grid man virtually all of his life. When he was running the Lotus 23 it meant he had to storm through the field in every race, but in the F5000 it was pretty much his natural grid location anyway.

#739 Stephen W

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:44

Ah! That sounds like the one which appeared at the last Coys Festival at Silverstone about 11-12 years ago?


It was at the 2008 Classic Silverstone as well.


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#740 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:55

There were other cars had similar airbox mods in that final couple of years...

This photo is in fact from 1981, undoubtedly the Rose City 10,000 in October that year. Ken Shirvington's car was among those which ditched the high airbox and went with these 'ears', I think there was some overall move to make the cars look more 'modern' for the time.

Adams, of course, was a special case in this class. As a Seventh Day Adventist, he would not practice on a Saturday, so he was a rear-of-the-grid man virtually all of his life. When he was running the Lotus 23 it meant he had to storm through the field in every race, but in the F5000 it was pretty much his natural grid location anyway.

From memory the airboxes were banned in the interest of making the caqrs look more like F1s.
Hindsight, though even then this was dumb as the airboxes tended to depict 5000

#741 ellrosso

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:51

Posted Image
Elfin MR9 at Birdwood Museum in South Australia. Note 8 into 1 exhaust. Elfin Mono in f/ground.

Posted Image
Alfredo Costanzo and "friend" Sandown. I think its 1977 (either that or '79)

#742 Allen Brown

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:21

Few random shots from 1978.

Posted Image
Gary Dumbrell McRae GM1 Sandown

Great photos, Ellrosso! :up:

Especially intriguing to me are the "pod mods" on the GM1, I've never seen that customization on any GM1.


This is chassis 015 which had previously been the "Ward KS1". I would guess that those modifications are from when it was the Ward.

Source: http://www.oldracing....com/mcrae/gm1/

#743 charles r

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:45

[Few random shots from 1978.

Posted Image
Graham McRae Sandown


Great photos. Are there any more of the McRae? A lovely beast!

#744 ellrosso

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:29

Yes, I've actually got a whole heap of the GM3 - I'll post a few more tomorrow.

#745 charles r

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 13:41

Yes, I've actually got a whole heap of the GM3 - I'll post a few more tomorrow.



Much appreciated Ellrosso, thank you.

#746 ellrosso

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:47

Few more Charles. Wasn't amazingly quick back in the day, but very interesting concept. Great to see the driver at work.

Posted Image

Posted Image

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#747 E1pix

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 19:55

:wave: Great shots as always, Ell! :up:

I recall the GM3 now, never raced here but it showed up in an article at some point. I like it, at least in seeing the driver at work. Pretty cool.



#748 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 20:36

Originally posted by ellrosso
Few more Charles. Wasn't amazingly quick back in the day, but very interesting concept. Great to see the driver at work.

Posted Image

Posted Image


Also interesting location...

A part you never see of Sandown, the entry road outside the tunnel that used to run into the pits. Thank Neil for these, won't you?

#749 Lola5000

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:32

GM3 always thought it was a good looking car.
"Thomson motor auction"
wonder if GM got paid for the sponsorship?

#750 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 22:22

Thompson Motor Auctions were on several of McRaes cars. And KBs too. Also I think John Goss's too at times.
That is by looking at pics on TNF.
The GM3 I feel looks better in black.