Jump to content


Photo

Formula 5000 - happy days!


  • Please log in to reply
1182 replies to this topic

#1001 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:31

By the way, I found 143 people who drove F5000 in Australia and New Zealand over the period from 29.12.68 to 2.5.82. To count they had to drive at a race meeting where a F5000 race was held. How many do you think competed the Tasman Cup rounds from 1964 to 1975?

I make a total of 150 who drove at (not necessarily in) NZ and Australian Tasman races 1964-69. Sources for NZ are varied (largely observation) and for Australia Neil Nicoll’s not always reliable A Record of Tasman Formula Racing 1960-69)

There were an additional 49 at NZ rounds 1970-75 (I had no easy source for the Australian races)

So 1964-75 total must be around 210-220


Advertisement

#1002 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 26 May 2012 - 21:19

So what are your paramaters, David?

In the F5000 list I included anyone who practised for a F5000 race or drove in one, or drove a F5000 in any race in the F5000 era.

In other words, I counted in DNQs, DNSs, but not DNAs.

#1003 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:57

Same parameters, Ray, though I looked at Tasman Championship rounds only

#1004 NZALPA

NZALPA
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:56

Same parameters, Ray, though I looked at Tasman Championship rounds only



Although not relevant to what you are talking about here (and I love every bit of it......... thank you) 52 different F5000's ran in the 6 meeting series we have just completed in NZ/AUST over this last NZL season.

Add to this the active cars in the USA, Canada and the UK/Europe and Africa the number of active cars must be approaching 80.

I guess that is what you call a sustainable product, 40 years on!!


#1005 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 27 May 2012 - 14:27

Our book does include a section on the F5000 'revival' in Australia and New Zealand...

Some of the photos in this section are simply stunning!

#1006 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,907 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:54

So many different ways to count. Are you including Lakeside 65, Levin 67 and Teretonga 67 which were effectively Tasman races but didn't count for points? All the results are on ORC - tell me what parameters you want and I'll be happy to extract a list of drivers.

EDIT: Oops - typed 66 instead of 67 (twice!)

Edited by Allen Brown, 28 May 2012 - 13:52.


#1007 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:39

I counted all those races, which were in fact championship rounds, but not Levin, Teretonga and Lakeside 1967, which weren't

#1008 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 28 May 2012 - 14:29

Correction

Above was written if haste - having now checked, 1965 Lakeside was not a championship round, and 1967 was

Problem with relying on memory - when NZ was asked to drop Levin and Teretonga from the 1967 schedule, there was talk of Australia losing Lakeside, but in the end it didn't happen

Apologies for any confusion

#1009 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 9,623 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 28 May 2012 - 19:56

... 52 different F5000's ran in the 6 meeting series we have just completed in NZ/AUST over this last NZL season...

That is so amazing! :up: Please send some over here sometime. :)

#1010 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 May 2012 - 21:13

Only the title rounds...

The other races won't be ignored in the narrative, but as far as drivers competing it will only be those who were at actual title races. I wouldn't imagine there'd be many who weren't there at other races anyway.

#1011 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 May 2012 - 21:52

And immediately I found one...

G Halpin in a Gremlin Ford. I'm told this is a FJr, so it wouldn't have been there (I don't imagine) had it actually been a championship race.

#1012 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 May 2012 - 23:04

But none in those NZ races...

I'd totally forgotten that those races had been deleted from the Tasman pointscore! Thankfully the Sergent site doesn't keep to the hard lines I do!

#1013 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:06

I've come up with a tentative figure of 180 for the Tasman runners...

One of the most interesting would seem to be Barry Porter.

#1014 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,907 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:10

My first attempt gives me 199. Of those, two appeared only in those three non-champs races: John Ampt and Ron Halpin both at Lakeside in 1965.

Counting starters only gives me 176; including all the types of non-starter pushes that up to 199.

Do you want to email me your list of 180 Ray and I'll work out why I have 19 more?

#1015 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:12

As in Post 1002, I make it 199 "appearances" for 1964-75 excluding people who contested Australian but not NZ rounds 1970-75

#1016 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,907 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:24

As in Post 1002, I make it 199 "appearances" for 1964-75 excluding people who contested Australian but not NZ rounds 1970-75


I only get 178 if I do that. The 21 that are 'lost' are Gary Campbell, Jon Davison, Ian Douglass, Don Uebergang, Stephen Fraser, Ken Goodwin, Len Goodwin, John Goss, Keith Holland, Colin Hyams, Stan Keen, John Leffler, Kevin Loy, Chris Milton, Bob Minogue, Bob Muir, Noel Potts, Errol Richardson, John Roxburgh, Howie Sangster and Tony Stewart.

EDIT - did it wrong first time

Edited by Allen Brown, 29 May 2012 - 11:29.


#1017 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:15

Bob Minogue and Noel Potts?

Really? I'd better get out my magazines...

#1018 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,907 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:26

Monogue and Potts both appear as DNS at Sandown Park 22 Feb 1970 in my results. Happy to correct where I'm wrong of course.

I've just sent you my full list of 199 highlighting the 22 additions (I believe) I have.

Edited by Allen Brown, 29 May 2012 - 12:27.


#1019 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 May 2012 - 13:42

And then I found Larry Perkins listed on a Sandown grid in an Elfin 600!

I've got a long way to go with all of this, obviously...

One thing that has come to light as I've been checking all of this is that I find I have previously missed a F5000 that competed in NZ. I guess at the time I simply dismissed it as an error or typo, after all, who would believe anyone would bolt a Chev engine into the back of a BT18? But on reading through the report it's all verified.

David... did it ever race? It's listed as a non-starter in that particular event, but Murray Baker might well have turned out for a minor race in it.

Advertisement

#1020 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 29 May 2012 - 16:12

Ah, the Elk!

It followed several DNAs with a couple of DNS's, then did actually race at the Manfeild International in December 1974 - lasted two laps in one race and five in the other

#1021 opplock

opplock
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 19:13

Ah, the Elk!

It followed several DNAs with a couple of DNS's, then did actually race at the Manfeild International in December 1974 - lasted two laps in one race and five in the other


If I remember rightly I was standing next to Murray Baker on the test day before that meeting as he watched his brother doing some slow laps in a Begg FM5. He said to his mechanic "He's probably lapping quicker now than I was at full speed". I thought it best to remain silent.

#1022 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 May 2012 - 21:52

Originally posted by David McKinney
Ah, the Elk!

It followed several DNAs with a couple of DNS's, then did actually race at the Manfeild International in December 1974 - lasted two laps in one race and five in the other


Your very own Don Fraser, eh?

I suppose if we could have one you could too...

Posted Image

With thanks to Glenn Moulds.

Were there any others like it?

#1023 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 22 June 2012 - 17:07

As the release date gets nearer...

This is the 'prototype' book, a proof fully made up for final corrections:

Posted Image

I've been able to show it to several people over the last few days. "There's a lot in it!" and "It's a big book!" are common comments. Of course, none of them had a chance to get into reading it, so they were really only commenting on the pictures. For my money, it's the stories that really make the difference, and I think anyone reading will find it's a book with a difference.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Jon actually gets very personal in his story, one of his quotes is from a conversation he once had with Bobby Rahal:

"The greatest thing we can pass on to our sons is the benefit of our grey-headed experience. To do that you have to be alive."

We're now looking at a launch in late July...



#1024 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 9,623 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 22 June 2012 - 18:38

I'll bet you couldn't rip that package open fast enough.

Congratulations, Ray! :clap:

#1025 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 22 June 2012 - 18:53

I think that's a fair assumption of how many will feel!

Britto wants one, Frank Matich stayed up past his bedtime to go through it, Tania will love it.

#1026 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 9,623 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 22 June 2012 - 20:15

I'm truly happy for you, Ray.

This proves it — :)

#1027 Manfred Cubenoggin

Manfred Cubenoggin
  • Member

  • 809 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 22 June 2012 - 22:36

:up: :up:

#1028 JacnGille

JacnGille
  • Member

  • 1,606 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 23 June 2012 - 00:07

:up:

#1029 Lola5000

Lola5000
  • Member

  • 1,178 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 23 June 2012 - 01:32

Ray,FFS will you release it,I bought my last Bentley quicker.

#1030 Piquet959

Piquet959
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:03

Having watched in awe and loved the ground shaking at Winton in they heyday I will be ordering one asp after release.
I still think that the best looking/preetiest F5000 was the Maclaren conversion.
I know this I'll probably a bit contentious but just one fence watchers thoughts.

Best cameraderie was the lift back to start/finish line of Leila Lombardi at Sandown after she ran out of fuel. Just can't imagine how such a tiny lady managed to control one of these beasts!

Congratulations Looks great Ray
Cheers
Peter Sneddon

#1031 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 23 June 2012 - 12:16

Which McLaren, Peter?

I did like McCormack's, especially in the Budget colours.

#1032 Piquet959

Piquet959
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:17

Can't remember exactly which on. It may have been the John Mc Cormacks car. it was at the Rose city 10000. By memory it was at the same event that James Hunt came out to race in the event.

How's my memory

PeterSneddon

#1033 Wirra

Wirra
  • Member

  • 911 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:23

Few random shots from back in the day...
Posted Image

Posted Image
..



#1034 charles r

charles r
  • Member

  • 5,591 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:40

As the release date gets nearer...

This is the 'prototype' book, a proof fully made up for final corrections:


We're now looking at a launch in late July...



I cannot wait Ray, it looks like you have done the subject more than justice - Congratulations!

#1035 Lola5000

Lola5000
  • Member

  • 1,178 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:04

In the photo with Hunt at Winton second from the left in the stripped shirt,seen him over the years,any ideas who?

#1036 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:40

Originally posted by Piquet959
Can't remember exactly which on. It may have been the John McCormack's car. it was at the Rose city 10000. By memory it was at the same event that James Hunt came out to race in the event.

How's my memory?


Yes, McCormack was beside Hunt on the front of the grid at the Rose City 10,000 in 1978, that was in the Unipart colours. He'd won the previous year's race (IIRC) in the Budget colours.

#1037 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:39

I know im going to be "shot down in flames" but why is a Lotus 49 pictured on the front cover of a F5000 book.

#1038 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 9,623 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:02

It ran in the Tasman Series back in the early days.

#1039 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 6,030 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:31

In the photo with Hunt at Winton second from the left in the stripped shirt,seen him over the years,any ideas who?

The bloke with the long hair and denim shirt looks familiar but from where I do not know.

Advertisement

#1040 Simon Hadfield

Simon Hadfield
  • Member

  • 213 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:50

He was James' mechanic at Mclaren, I think he was the guy who used to write the pithy notes stuck on the steering wheel.

#1041 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,528 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:57

I know im going to be "shot down in flames" but why is a Lotus 49 pictured on the front cover of a F5000 book.

From this site:

The volume also includes a special 22 page Sixties Tasman introduction by Max Stahl which includes wonderful, and never before seen images of Hill, Clark, Brabham, Stewart, Courage, Ridnt, McLaren, Gardner, Harvey, Bartlett, Geoghegan, Amon, Rodriquez, Hulme and many more, plying their trade during the famous Tasman Series races from 1964 to 1969.

Hence the Lotus (as E1pix said).

#1042 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,085 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:27

That's right, the 'mood' of the Tasman 2.5-litre days is there along with an explanation of how that all led into F5000s ruling the Australian and New Zealand roost...

In the same way, the book closes with some fabulous images and a little written detail about the resurrection of the class in Historic racing. That's been written by Aaron Lewis.

#1043 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 9,623 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:01

The bloke with the long hair and denim shirt looks familiar but from where I do not know.

Lee, I thought so, too... and thus got a kick about Lola5000's comment about the other guy!

IIRC, it seems the 'denim-shirt guy' worked with James on the Marlboro and Lowenbrau McLarens...

#1044 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:40

The denim shirt guy looks familiar - possibly as an Opert mechanic in the NZ series in 1977

I believe the bloke in the striped shirt is Ray 'Kojak' Grant

#1045 NZALPA

NZALPA
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:46

That's right, the 'mood' of the Tasman 2.5-litre days is there along with an explanation of how that all led into F5000s ruling the Australian and New Zealand roost...

In the same way, the book closes with some fabulous images and a little written detail about the resurrection of the class in Historic racing. That's been written by Aaron Lewis.


We resurrected 52 different F5000's in the last season (2011/2012) of historic racing in NZL and OZ competing in our 6 meetings (not all on one day sadly).

Maybe we can break the 60 mark this year. It would be a fitting tribute to the cars and their in period drivers

Cannot wait to see this fabulous book.

Edited by NZALPA, 26 June 2012 - 11:48.


#1046 rdmotorsport

rdmotorsport
  • Member

  • 534 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:49

The bloke with the long hair and denim shirt looks familiar but from where I do not know.

Try (Kojak) Grant, Hunts mechanic who was famous for borrowing everything but would never lend, spanners,tank tape,sockets you name it

#1047 Nigel Beresford

Nigel Beresford
  • Member

  • 737 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:49

The denim shirt guy looks familiar - possibly as an Opert mechanic in the NZ series in 1977

I believe the bloke in the striped shirt is Ray 'Kojak' Grant



I think you've got that mixed up. The guy in the denim shirt is unquestionably Ray Grant.

No idea who the fellow in stripes is.

#1048 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:01

We resurrected 52 different F5000's in the last season (2011/2012) of historic racing in NZL and OZ competing in our 6 meetings (not all on one day sadly).

Now thats impressive! :up: Good going.

#1049 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 26 June 2012 - 15:31

I think you've got that mixed up. The guy in the denim shirt is unquestionably Ray Grant.

No idea who the fellow in stripes is.

Apologies - I misinterpreted the information I was given

#1050 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 26 June 2012 - 15:51

Yes I do know that a 49 ran in the tasman series !!!!!!! what i didnt know was that the book had a chapter ont hem .