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Formula 5000 - happy days!


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#1051 E1pix

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 19:15

Now thats impressive! :up: Good going.

That's an understatement! Wow! :up:

(Please Come to the States... bring the cars :) )

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#1052 275 GTB-4

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:09

Yes I do know that a 49 ran in the tasman series !!!!!!! what i didnt know was that the book had a chapter ont hem .


Quite understandable Teddles! The cover has F5000 in enormous type....and it is supposed to be the subject of the book. Not good to read that there is controversy over the accuracy of competing cars already etc ....maybe the old RCN proofreaders are to blame!

#1053 Lola5000

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:20

great move to have a chapter on the 2.5l cars and then into the 5 litre cars,as the 2.5l cars over the last few decades had little print coverage.
Ray is there any owner history of any of the cars in the book?
Rob.

#1054 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:56

Essentially no...

Some individual cars are covered in some detail as their owner or driver tells his story, otherwise we didn't set out to keep track of cars.

Apart from the photos, some of the stories are really good at uncovering what it was really like back in the seventies. Of course, we have stories from two of the drivers who had A-cars at that initial 1968 Bay Park event, so they're a bit eye-opening too.

#1055 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 09:16

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
Quite understandable Teddles! The cover has F5000 in enormous type....and it is supposed to be the subject of the book. Not good to read that there is controversy over the accuracy of competing cars already etc ....maybe the old RCN proofreaders are to blame!


There is no controversy and I know of no inaccuracy...

If you think Max's proofreading is substandard I suggest you contact him directly.

#1056 Lola5000

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 09:29

Most of my race car friends can't wait for this book,i can see a second edition in the making.

#1057 Séamas M.

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 20:49

I know you'll get at least one order from Northern Ireland. :wave:

#1058 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 21:21

That's very good to hear, Robert...

I also can't wait to see the finished copies. And the launch looks like becoming quite a big thing, we have a T300 lined up for display (I haven't seen one of those since 1973!) and a number of the drivers on hand.

I do expect it will go to a second printing, but in the meantime we're beginning work on the Tasman Cup book.

Just a few little teasers, who do you think wrote this?

The beginnings for me were 60 years ago when my stepfather, a most severe and hard man, told me that I would come to nothing in life!


Or this?

Three of the car's six seat belt attachment points holding me into the seat were detached from the car. The engine moved forward in the twisted and damaged chassis; the water pump came through the fibreglass driving seat and ground a neat hole about one to one and a half inches into the middle of my back. In other words, I was within half an inch of being a paraplegic and an inch from being dead.


Or this?

What I really loved about my time in F5000 was that every single time I went to do some private testing it rained! Fantastic, I loved it! Driving in the rain on slicks, I really got to learn what the car would do and how to control it.


Or this?

I had always like the look of the F5000 cars...

Then I decided to go to the US and take the plunge. When I tried the cockpit for size it felt like sitting in a large truck, but you soon overcome that.


How about this?

At this point I deserted my wife and sister-in-law and took myself off to the Black Forest to have a board meeting with myself. As a result, the decision was made that motor racing for me would be a hobby not a profession. I had a wife, increasing responsibilities in the family business and, at 26, there were other priorities.


Another?

Niel Allen was and remains my hero from when I started my career in 1969. Niel was the most determined driver that I have ever seen. His exploits against Frank Matich left a great impression on me when I was a spectator. My only regret is that I never met or knew him until long after both he and I retired. I still cannot understand how such an aggressive driver could have such a gentlemanly personality. In my opinion, Niel grew horns when he got into a race car. If he was a race horse they would have to swab him to make sure he was the same horse.


Is it obvious?

...very necessary to win a race and especially in chasing a pole position or lap record.

The latter was always an exceptionally stimulating and heart-throbbing experience for me when pushed to the maximum. To me, while subconsciously working to control your own sense of self discipline, you knew you were testing the limits. Even with the intense concentration demanded, it was as though you were putting yourself in God's hands by giving it all you had by entering the zone of eleven-tenths driving. I'm sure these pressures applied to all of us who did it.



#1059 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 21:37

Originally posted by S�amas M.
I know you'll get at least one order from Northern Ireland.


Great news...

I know you'll enjoy it.

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#1060 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 21:53

Originally posted by Ted Walker
Yes I do know that a 49 ran in the Tasman series!!! what i didn't know was that the book had a chapter on them.


The section on the Tasman Cup's 2.5-litre days consists of 14 pages and includes 37 photos, though there are a few other photos from the 2.5-litre era in other parts of the book where they are appropriate, perhaps another fifteen or so. There are also photos of F1 cars which ran in races of the F5000 era here... the Wolfs, the Williams and the Alfa. Just as there are pictures in which FAtlantic cars featuring as they battled with the F5000s.

The 2.5 Tasman section is not about the cars but about the growth of the series, the impact it had on local racing and the times we had with the people who came for those races.

#1061 275 GTB-4

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 23:12

maybe this lot could be moved to the book thread?

http://forums.autosp...w...58&hl=books

#1062 E1pix

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 23:43

This is a thread about F5000; cars, books, pictures, stories, whatever.

And I'll take as much of it as I can get. :)

#1063 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 00:59

F5000s were a dream come true...

Big grunt on road circuits, cars that were hard to tame and looked like it.

I agree, anything that reminds us belongs in this thread!

#1064 Terry Marshall

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:19



Your so right Ray. The F5000 days were the best of times.

I'm looking forward to seeing your book in print.

Terry.


#1065 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:22

I just love your photo of Jim Murdoch after he went agricultural, Terry...

And it's Tony's book as much (or more) than mine. It was his idea, I helped him bring it to fruition.

You will get another run with Brian Faloon in the Tasman book, of course. I gather, reading between the photos, that he was a special friend of yours?

#1066 Terry Marshall

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:50



As you do, I kept running into Bryan at the races. He deserved better equipment. It's nice that
with my book and your new one we can keep his memory alive so to speak.


Re Jim, It's hard to imagine now days, but yes we still used straw bails, that image is
taken at Timaru where there was straw bails and drums marking out the pits. Shows in
The image of Kenny being signaled to by his dad in my book.

T.

#1067 E1pix

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:00

Terry, Good Luck with your book, too!

It'd be great if you'd post here more as well. In your 7 years here, Ray's posted more often... today! ;) [as have I, most likely :) ]

Please keep us posted. :up:

#1068 Terry Marshall

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:19



I guess I'm basically a lurker, but with a bit more time on my hands these days I will
try harder.

My book was published by Harper Collins some 3 years ago and is now out of print I believe.


T.

#1069 E1pix

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:39

:) Thanks, Terry. Out of print in three years... now that's the way to do it. :up:



#1070 ellrosso

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 08:41

Yes well done Terry, great achievement and well deserved too.

#1071 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 08:43

Ah, yet another contributor to the book...

And I'm sure there's going to be some elrosso pics in the Tasman Cup book as well.

#1072 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:01

Nobody had a go at guessing the authors of any of these quotes:

The beginnings for me were 60 years ago when my stepfather, a most severe and hard man, told me that I would come to nothing in life!



Or this?

Three of the car's six seat belt attachment points holding me into the seat were detached from the car. The engine moved forward in the twisted and damaged chassis; the water pump came through the fibreglass driving seat and ground a neat hole about one to one and a half inches into the middle of my back. In other words, I was within half an inch of being a paraplegic and an inch from being dead.



Or this?

What I really loved about my time in F5000 was that every single time I went to do some private testing it rained! Fantastic, I loved it! Driving in the rain on slicks, I really got to learn what the car would do and how to control it.



Or this?

I had always liked the look of the F5000 cars...

Then I decided to go to the US and take the plunge. When I tried the cockpit for size it felt like sitting in a large truck, but you soon overcome that.



How about this?

At this point I deserted my wife and sister-in-law and took myself off to the Black Forest to have a board meeting with myself. As a result, the decision was made that motor racing for me would be a hobby not a profession. I had a wife, increasing responsibilities in the family business and, at 26, there were other priorities.



Another?

Niel Allen was and remains my hero from when I started my career in 1969. Niel was the most determined driver that I have ever seen. His exploits against Frank Matich left a great impression on me when I was a spectator. My only regret is that I never met or knew him until long after both he and I retired. I still cannot understand how such an aggressive driver could have such a gentlemanly personality. In my opinion, Niel grew horns when he got into a race car. If he was a race horse they would have to swab him to make sure he was the same horse.



Is it obvious?

...very necessary to win a race and especially in chasing a pole position or lap record.

The latter was always an exceptionally stimulating and heart-throbbing experience for me when pushed to the maximum. To me, while subconsciously working to control your own sense of self discipline, you knew you were testing the limits. Even with the intense concentration demanded, it was as though you were putting yourself in God's hands by giving it all you had by entering the zone of eleven-tenths driving. I'm sure these pressures applied to all of us who did it.


Is nobody game to have a guess?


#1073 David McKinney

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 13:11

Oh, all right then...

1. Frank Gardner
2. Warwick Brown
3. Kevin Bartlett (or Alfredo Costanzo)
4. David Hobbs
5. ??
6. Bob Minogue
7. Frank Matich

#1074 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 14:15

Warwick Brown you got right...

3 and 4 you have gone very wide of the mark, but that's okay, at least you had a go. I am surprised, however, that you missed the Kiwi quote.

#1075 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 15:58

The first copy of our book is heading for England...

Tony Loxley has given a prototype copy, which is the version printed and bound prior to all the final corrections and changes, to John Ellacott for the duration of his trip. I'm sure this will mean that the quiet-spoken John will be mobbed everywhere he goes while he's in England.

#1076 gtsmunro

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 05:49

Looking forward to the books release Ray, congratulations. Who will it be available through?

#1077 Dale Harvey

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:37

My copy of the book arrived today. I have just had a quick flick through it and it looks great. Can't wait to start reading the stories.

Dale.

#1078 E1pix

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:44

Oh God Yes, more F5000 is always in order.

Not surprised, great to hear. :up:

#1079 charles r

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:57

Oh God Yes, more F5000 is always in order.

Not surprised, great to hear. :up:


Ditto. Can't wait Ray.

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#1080 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 13:36

I wonder how many copies I can smuggle into America in my luggage?

Some of those stories will really grab you, Dale, trust me.

#1081 E1pix

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 19:26

I wonder how many copies I can smuggle into America in my luggage?

:cool: Need an American connect? I have black clothes and everything. :smoking:

#1082 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:00

I don't think I come near you during the course of my sauntering across the country, do I?

I think you'd better make e.mail contact prior to then so we can sort something out if you think it's a good idea.

#1083 Dale Harvey

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:19

I don't think you will get too many in your luggage Ray, it's a heavy book.

Dale.

#1084 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 22:54

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
I don't think you will get too many in your luggage Ray, it's a heavy book.


That's because there's so much in there!

Actually, Dale, I'll start with you...

To all those wives out there who will be missing their husbands, not getting jobs done around the house and so on over the first few weeks of ownership of our book, I humbly apologise.

#1085 E1pix

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 23:15

I don't think I come near you during the course of my sauntering across the country, do I?

I think you'd better make e.mail contact prior to then so we can sort something out if you think it's a good idea.

Sorry, I was kidding Ray... but it would be great to have lunch or dinner along your travels. :)

#1086 Lola5000

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:30

Ray Bell,well done on the F5000 book,its a great read ,the tales of yesterdays heros is a big thumbs up.Many of the photos I've never scene before.
I would liked to have scene a story on how the OZ 5 litre cars were saved and there 1st decade or so in historic racing and of those who saved them,small comment but had to put it down.
Well done so...............glad i bought the book
regards Rob Bailey. :up:

#1087 Eshe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:03

Ray, Tony and team, it is a seriously good book and a credit to you all for the effort that has gone into it. This is a "must have" if you are at all serious about your motor sport! After an evening of browsing the pics I am reading the detail which will keep me quiet for ages. It brings back a lot of memories of watching these cars in the late 70s, awesome.
regards Geoff

#1088 xj13v12

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:33

Ray, Tony and team, it is a seriously good book and a credit to you all for the effort that has gone into it. This is a "must have" if you are at all serious about your motor sport! After an evening of browsing the pics I am reading the detail which will keep me quiet for ages. It brings back a lot of memories of watching these cars in the late 70s, awesome.
regards Geoff


The book is available at the track Eastern Creek/Sydney Motorsport Park this weekend at the Muscle Car Masters. About 18 F5000s running in proper races so come and have a look, see the cars, meet the drivers and generally indulge in a bit of nostalgia. This is the nostalgia forum after all.

#1089 Librules

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:30

I the picked the book up from the Post Office today and have just had a browse. I've accorded it instant classic status and it will be treasured as much as the Egan Can-Am book........ I can't wait to find some quality time to give it the time it deserves. Well done all concerned.

#1090 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 21:48

Thank you all for the plaudits, gentlemen...

For my money, it's when you read the stories in detail that you'll get the most out of the book. There's an amazing amount of true life stuff has been included in those personal stories, stuff that you might wonder about as you lay awake at night as well as stuff you'd never have dreamed of.

Rob Newman's account of John Walker silently making his decision to go on after Max Stewart's death is one of those. And the enthusiasm (the then-injured) Alan Hamilton had to put Alfie into his Lola, not to mention Niel Allen's personal thoughts as he lay trapped in the T300.

Yes, there's plenty of really good photos, but there's so much more. Perhaps ten or twelve of the fifty-plus stories in the book really brought up what I believe are revelations of some kind to me as I first read them, and I had been there all along, talking to these people regularly as those days unfolded, watching it all happen and recording most of it in RCN.

But you can't be everywhere, and you certainly don't actually get into the minds of the people. Now they have exposed what was in their minds in so many cases that it puts a whole new light on the period and on events you might have thought you knew all about.

Tony tells me that he sold a good bunch of books yesterday and expects to see a lot more go out today, it gratifies me greatly to think that there are now many people who never even knew we were creating this book who have undoubtedly spent the night finding some of these gems.

For the Kiwis, David Abbott has committed to take a bundle of books back to New Zealand with his F5000s so it can start to be spread around among the enthusiasts there.

I know for a certainty that we can continue to bring forth this kind of stuff, I am really looking forward to getting on with our Tasman Cup book and I know that will bring forth an even-greater amount of background information that will enthrall readers. It is truly an invigorating thought to me as I'm currently planning my trip across the USA seeing people who will be adding their part to it.

Next week some time I should be sitting down with Bruce Richardson, for instance, to detail his view of the first Tasman Cup series... one that finished with him sitting in the grandstand opposite the pits as he watched the car he prepared circulating with a misfire. No doubt there will be two sides to that story and they will both be in the book!

#1091 Wirra

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 00:39

I am leaving for the UK in a few days and will be bringing a few copies for selected personnel. I could possibly slip a few extra copies in my wife's luggage for distribution to TNF members at Goodwood. If anyone is interested please send me a Personal Message (please do not reply here) - first up best dressed.

#1092 E1pix

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:10

For the Kiwis, David Abbott has committed to take a bundle of books back to New Zealand with his F5000s so it can start to be spread around among the enthusiasts there.

:up: Doesn't surprise me a bit, that Gent is a force in F5000 rebirth. :kiss:

#1093 ken devine

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:45

Yesterday i was sorting through some boxes of Auto Actions given to me a couple of years ago i came across 3 Australian Motor
Racing Annuals 72,73 and 74 there are some brillient F5000 photos it certainly wetted my appetite to get the book. When is it
available in WA Ray? Were these magazines the forerunner to the Motor Racing Yearbook?

#1094 BritishV8

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:42

Formula 5000 cars will be featured this coming weekend at Watkins Glen's annual U.S. Vintage Grand Prix. I understand 12 to 14 cars are expected.

I happened to speak with Dudley Cunningham the other day, so I know he's planning to bring his ex-Warwick Brown Lola T332 (HU27). Last year he elected to bring his Lotus Fifteen to Watkins Glen instead... and coincidentally, I've just published an article about the Fifteen here. Now I'm looking forward to photographing the T332.

Are any of you chaps planning to be there?

#1095 gouldo

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:32

My brother Jase &I picked up a copy for dad for fathers day yesterday at the muscle car masters.

Was talking to Tony Oxley for about 4 minutes before we both realised that we know each other & have worked with each other on & off over the years. Had no idea he was as interested in motor sports as much as he is.

And I havent opened the book yet, still wrapped for dad.

However the books that were on show looked a treat. Well done fellas.



#1096 xj13v12

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:57

My brother Jase &I picked up a copy for dad for fathers day yesterday at the muscle car masters.

Was talking to Tony Oxley for about 4 minutes before we both realised that we know each other & have worked with each other on & off over the years. Had no idea he was as interested in motor sports as much as he is.

And I havent opened the book yet, still wrapped for dad.

However the books that were on show looked a treat. Well done fellas.



Talking to Warwick Brown at the track today and he said that he hoped the book would be 10/10 but he reckons it is 20/10.
That's a pretty big rap.

#1097 Lola5000

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:04

Enjoying the book today........would Leo Geoghegan have been competitive in the 5 litre cars at the time that he was driving the F2 cars?
Did Big Pete ever have a drive of one in private practice?

#1098 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:20

Originally posted by gouldo
My brother Jase & I picked up a copy for dad for fathers day yesterday at the muscle car masters.....


Convey my best regards to the old man, please.....

.....Was talking to Tony Oxley for about 4 minutes before we both realised that we know each other & have worked with each other on & off over the years. Had no idea he was as interested in motor sports as much as he is.....


That's 'Loxley'...

Yes, he's very enthusiastic about a lot of motor sports despite the fact that his previous books have all been on Speedway. He told me that a lot of his Liverpool books were sold over this weekend out there too.

#1099 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:24

Originally posted by Lola5000
Enjoying the book today........would Leo Geoghegan have been competitive in the 5 litre cars at the time that he was driving the F2 cars?
Did Big Pete ever have a drive of one in private practice?


I'm pretty sure Pete never stepped into one, unfortunately... though I seem to recall there was some talk about him looking at the T192 at one stage.

Leo? I don't think you could say that Leo was ever UNcompetitive in anything. But, as he relates in the book, he would have been in an Elfin had he done anything about getting a F5000 and if you look at John McCormack's story about his time with the MR5 you'll see that it had some shortcomings that required a special approach to do any winning.

Could Leo have followed that path? I don't know, but I'm sure he'd have taken some prizemoney had he jumped in.

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#1100 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 18:01

Originally posted by ken devine
Yesterday i was sorting through some boxes of Auto Actions given to me a couple of years ago i came across 3 Australian Motor
Racing Annuals 72, 73 and 74. There are some brilliant F5000 photos it certainly whetted my appetite to get the book. When is it
available in WA, Ray? Were these magazines the forerunner to the Motor Racing Yearbook?


First, yes, there was a 'forerunner' to the Motor Racing Yearbooks, but I don't remember the name...

Unfortunately, the couple of copies I had have disappeared, but they were published by Tom Floyd so you'd find his name in them somewhere. If, on the other hand, the ones you have were published by Kenmure Press (K G Murray), they are from the Sports Car World people and aren't from that genus at all.

Pitstop have ordered quite a number of copies of our book and they will be freighted over there early this week if they haven't already been sent. You should be able to get a copy from them within a week or so, I'd say. I think you should enjoy Jaime Gard's story about the Don O'Sullivan equipe's F5000 efforts, which does include some Wanneroo and workshop pics. There are, of course, other Wanneroo pics, particularly from the '79 AGP.

I still have very fond memories of that AGP meeting, from my hitch-hiking to get there (from Sydney) to driving around Narrogin and Applecross and looking at the old Caversham circuit. At the circuit the rivalry between Larry and Alf was intense, though Alfie was more casual about it. This all showed graphically in that famous first corner crash that enabled the race to turn into the real drama it became with Wright limping along and Walker having to pit to remove his exhaust pipe after it broke.

I remember, too, the delight the club had in actually making a financial success of running that meeting. I was told that it was the first time the AGP had been run in WA at a profit, though I don't know whether the Narrogin event was included in that discussion.

One day I might even see a video of that race. The ABC recorded the first part of it and started their delayed broadcast with the beginning of the race and ran through until it was time to switch over to a live broadcast for the run to the finish.