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Formula 5000 - happy days!


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#1201 E1pix

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 08:10

For those like me who choose to never forget F5000 but can't find good period video, here's this gem:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=P8yGXAIgYr0

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#1202 Allen Brown

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 10:05

Perry Krinitt for sure.  He's been in the news recently because of his son's death.

 

The misspellings on my site will be because I faithfully followed an entry list.



#1203 arttidesco

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 16:50

Thanx for the link E1Pix and confirmation Allen :up:



#1204 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 19:52

That was a dreadful race...

Only two of the finishers were on the same lap. Or was it only two were just one lap apart?

At the side on You Tube there was a link to the 1969 Australian Grand Prix, I watched that. It was the full race, but fairly amateurishly televised by the ABC.

#1205 E1pix

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 20:33

I think McRae was really thinking in using his clear cowl section, likely inspired by those blue F1 cars that had too many wheels.

Edit: I'll be watching that '69 race, Ray!

Edited by E1pix, 16 October 2015 - 20:36.


#1206 john aston

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 06:52

Enjoyed 5 minutes of the video just now and it really does make me despair that we now have no modern single seater racing to speak of in the UK . I have yet to see F4 but Ecboost Formula Ford  was just terrible. The magic formula which F5000 had was more power than grip , great looking cars and thunderous noise. A recent Formula Renault would lap quicker than a T330 or whatever , but when a Lola was approaching your legs would step back involuntarily from the trackside. F3 was the last decent  formula racing series we had and although not especially powerful the cars were little jewels . A tragedy that a series which used to be the third or foruth most important in the world descended into parody  and held half its races abroad. Happy days when I could see F3  at Croft , Rufforth , Oulton , Brands etc , and latterly at Donington



#1207 RonPohl

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 17:03

How about reviving F5000 with something like this: a spec carbon fiber chassis ( say like an Indy lites) with the ARCA ilmor engine. 700 hp, 500 foot pounds, purchase price ( not lease) $35,000. 1500 miles between rebuilds.

#1208 E1pix

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 18:01

YES!

#1209 opplock

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 18:15

As Ray says a dreadful race. The first time I've seen it and although it was good to see Cassius win it summed up all the bad things about F5000. The cars did (and still do) look and sound spectacular. The racing however was often dire largely due to abysmal reliability. In that race the 1st four finishers were all 2 laps apart. As F5000 had died everywhere else most of the competing cars were 5 years old or more.

 

Do watch the 1969 AGP. I have fond memories of the high winged Lotus 49s and the Brabham biplane. More so of the Ferraris. The highlight is about 11 minutes in. Neil Allen spins and the resulting yellow flag is initially waved by a young woman wearing a mini skirt and knee high boots. After about 20 seconds someone grabs the flag and runs to the correct side of the car. Mini skirts were unconventional attire for marshals even in those days.  


Edited by opplock, 17 October 2015 - 18:21.


#1210 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 02:47

I have seen that footage before. Yes it was a terrible race, Garrie, Alan and KB all with their big crashes. Yet alone the other shunts too. 

Is it me or did the cars sound better then,,, I have seen them recently and with more power they dont sound as strong. As they do in that clip.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 18 October 2015 - 07:42.


#1211 E1pix

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 06:09

I've noticed the same at vintage races up/over here.

I think they sounded better then because they were driven same.

#1212 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 12:18

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
I have seen that footage before. Yes it was a terrible race, Garrie, Alan and KB all with their big crashes. Let alone the other shunts too.....


The big crashes at this meeting didn't include KB, his was the following year...

But they did include the 250/275LM, I'm pretty sure, in the same spot Alan Hamilton went in.

#1213 arttidesco

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 21:49

I was wondering if the GM2 had silencers on it looked like it, over here they all do now :-(



#1214 E1pix

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 22:11

On toning down a race motor, they might as well poke us in the eye.

"Silencers." Blasphemes!

#1215 JacnGille

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 23:26

The '75 F5000 race in the rain at Road Atlanta is one of my all time favorite races.



#1216 E1pix

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 02:17

Sad you didn't get to see BJ Swanson run.

That guy would have been our next Mario...


Edited by E1pix, 19 October 2015 - 05:59.


#1217 john aston

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 05:45

Just thinking about that noise , I don't think anything compared to the sheer brutal intensity of an  F5000 race at Mallory Park- 40 odd second laps and no respite at all. Even the NASCAR race I attended a couple of years ago wasn't quite as overwhelming - and we didn't even get a fight in the pit lane ..  



#1218 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 17:22

"Silencers" were mandatory at Sandown Park from very early on, perhaps from the inception of the circuit...

Mostly the visiting top-liners fitted things like beer cans clamped around the tailpipes (I should be able to dig up a photo somewhere) but by the mid-seventies mufflers of a set standard were required on all circuit around Australia.

#1219 B Squared

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:37

Sad you didn't get to see BJ Swanson run.

That guy would have been our next Mario...

Gordon Kirby compared him to Mark Donohue also. B.J. is from my hometown and buried within a mile of my home. His family's plot is next to the plot of my cigar store-owning friends (since 1874) family. I visited B.J.'s grave about a month ago and made sure it was clean and edged.  



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#1220 E1pix

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 15:20

I'd love to join you to do that sometime, Brian. Maybe around the 500.

Then, on to the cigar store... :-)

#1221 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 20:22

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The big crashes at this meeting didn't include KB, his was the following year...


Just to correct myself here, or give further information I should say, Vern Schuppan was another to crash in this race.

Originally posted by arttidesco
I was wondering if the GM2 had silencers on it looked like it, over here they all do now


A photo of McRae spinning out of Dandenong Road Corner in that race (page 423, Official 50-race history of the Australian Grand Prix book) clearly shows a pair of decent-sized mufflers on his tailpipes.

#1222 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 21:47

"Silencers" were mandatory at Sandown Park from very early on, perhaps from the inception of the circuit...

Mostly the visiting top-liners fitted things like beer cans clamped around the tailpipes (I should be able to dig up a photo somewhere) but by the mid-seventies mufflers of a set standard were required on all circuit around Australia.

Sandown because of its proximity to housing will always be a problem with noise. Worse that great stand causes the noise to echo and increase. Though a 9am start with cloud cover will always have cars noisier than 1pm  and a clear sky. Been there don that!

 

My comment above though is that those cars sounded better [probably noisier] in that clip than they do now with a 100hp more in some cases.They defenitly were all fitted with some sort of muffler, ones that do appear real. Not cans!



#1223 group7

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:42

In 1971 Chaparral mechanics, including Troy Rogers and Franz Weis, ran a car based on a aborted Indy project, from Chevrolet R&D and Chaparral,  in two Formula A/5000 races in America. pictures of this machine are rare. there are a some out there, a couple from Vintage Motor Sport, May/June 1994 "Chaparral story" by Pete Lyons ,I believe he sourced those from Troy Rogers (sadly no longer with us) one I have from Car & Driver magazine November 1971, I've not seen anywhere, I posted it on "Autodiva" out of France, in the Chaparral thread.  but can't post here. long story, short, I would like to build a 1/43 scale model of it, does anyone know of any photos from the rear of the car ? need them for reference.

 

Mike (group7)


Edited by group7, 21 November 2015 - 03:54.


#1224 2F-001

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 11:41

There are half a dozen or more pics of it floating around online; there may be more, but I guess one problem searching is knowing what they might be labelled as - as nobody's too sure what to call the car!

 

I think I have something - somewhere - showing the rear; my gut feeling is that it was in a mag such as Car & Driver, but if I'd got that right you would probably have seen it already...

 

I try to have a look for it after the weekend. 



#1225 E1pix

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 15:35

This car, right?:
http://www.oldracing...5000/chaparral/

Gotta get up pretty early to do anything racing that our own Allen Brown hasn't already covered.

#1226 group7

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:07

E1pix, thats the one ! thanks for posting that link so people know what I'm on about. that F/A Chaparral was a neat looking car.

 

Mike (group7)



#1227 GreenMachine

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:42

Neat? Not my choice of adjective for that car ...



#1228 Bob Riebe

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:36

E1pix, thats the one ! thanks for posting that link so people know what I'm on about. that F/A Chaparral was a neat looking car.

 

Mike (group7)

I saw it run at Donnybrooke back when I was young and ignorant expecting Chaparral to stomp on the opponents,

It was the beginning of me facing reality and no longer have idols.



#1229 E1pix

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 06:52

E1pix, thats the one ! thanks for posting that link so people know what I'm on about. that F/A Chaparral was a neat looking car.

Mike (group7)

It is a really cool design for its time, kind of a cross between a Granatelli Hawke and a rock climbing shoe (Edit to clarify, those are both really good things).

One does wonder how many motor builds went by with him wanting to go back out.

Edited by E1pix, 23 November 2015 - 06:55.


#1230 E1pix

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 06:58

I saw it run at Donnybrooke back when I was young and ignorant expecting Chaparral to stomp on the opponents,
It was the beginning of me facing reality and no longer have idols.

Even Big Jim can't win 'em all. Still a worthy idol for me, though.