20 replies to this topic

[David Beard]

Anthony Brooke had Lotus 12 354.
We had a photo of it on TNF recently complete with tail fin…



DCN in Theme Lotus said he sold it to Laystall engineering less engine and gearbox as basis for the Laystall F2 car.

As seen on the Stoneleigh thread...




DCN also says in Theme Lotus that Anthony Brooke bought the parts back and built them up into a bitsa he calls Lotus 16 B1, probably using the repaired 362 chassis that Cliff Allison bent at Oporto in 1958. Bruce Halford used to call this car the “Brooke Special” (not to be confused with other earlier Brooke Specials ), but these days it is known as 362.

In the Hodges A-Z says the Laystall had Cooper front suspension, and “Lotus like" rear suspension.

Which all leaves me a bit confused. What mechanical bits does the resurrected Laystall have? Which Lotus bits did it originally use?

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by David Beard

In the Hodges A-Z says the Laystall had Cooper front suspension, and “Lotus like" rear suspension.

Which all leaves me a bit confused. What mechanical bits does the resurrected Laystall have?

Many years ago Henry Tombs showed me (at Beaulieu autojumble) some of the remains including Lotus 12 rear suspension - for some reason (most likely it had already been sold) I didn't investigate any further.

I remember Stuart Rolt aquiring the Laystall gearbox some years ago, not sure what else he has found but will ask next time I see him (e.g. when he's finished my Climax engine).

[David Beard]

I’m more confused than ever about the Laystall. The Hodges A-Z shows a photo of an unfinished car vaguely like the restored/recreated one shown earlier on this thread. But I have just bought this rather nice photo on EBay showing Henry Taylor in the Laystall apparently at the Aintree 200 in April 1960 which shows a car with BRM type wheels, different nose, different tail, and much lower cockpit sides.


(Taken by EBayer George Wall’s uncle…George has allowed me to post this.)

Quite a pretty machine, in fact. Were there actually more than one of these? By the time this photo was taken Anthony Brooke had apparently used Laystall parts in his Lotus 16 bitza, and raced it…

[David McKinney]

That pic's much more like the Laystall pictures I remember from the time (and no, I can't recall where I saw them)

[fw07c]

Henry Taylor raced the Laystall F2 in the 1960 German Grand Prix which that year was for Formula 2 cars.

[Bruce_Williams]

From what I remember from a conversation at Stoneleigh, the Laystall had two body styles on it. The first was the period picture above and its tail was not particularly nice, this was its prototype body in effect. The recreation body is a copy of the much prettier Mk2 body and this is the body it ran with at the 1960 German GP.

[Barry Boor]

What a pretty little car!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Bruce_Williams
From what I remember from a conversation at Stoneleigh, the Laystall had two body styles on it. The first was the period picture above and its tail was not particularly nice, this was its prototype body in effect. The recreation body is a copy of the much prettier Mk2 body and this is the body it ran with at the 1960 German GP.

I'm still confused. That sounds the other way round to what I imagined. Can anyone post a photo of the car in the German GP?

[fw07c]

In the book "The German Grand Prix" by Cyril Posthumus there is a picture of the Laystall F2 car in the 1960 race on the North curve. The Car shown is the same body shape as the one I saw at Stoneleigh this year. The picture is quite small and at present it is beyond my knowledge how to display on this forum. Perphaps somebody else will be able to post it.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by David Beard
I’m more confused than ever about the Laystall. The Hodges A-Z shows a photo of an unfinished car vaguely like the restored/recreated one shown earlier on this thread. But I have just bought this rather nice photo on EBay showing Henry Taylor in the Laystall apparently at the Aintree 200 in April 1960 which shows a car with BRM type wheels, different nose, different tail, and much lower cockpit sides.

David, I bought a batch of photos from the same EBAY seller and can confirm that the photo was taken at the April 1960 Aintree 200 which was an F2 race - the reason I can confirm this is that I was there!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by fw07c
In the book "The German Grand Prix" by Cyril Posthumus there is a picture of the Laystall F2 car in the 1960 race on the North curve. The Car shown is the same body shape as the one I saw at Stoneleigh this year. The picture is quite small and at present it is beyond my knowledge how to display on this forum. Perphaps somebody else will be able to post it.

Here it is. Thanks fw07s, but I'm not sure I can deduce which body style the car is wearing in this shot

[Bruce_Williams]

I would say that the tail in the picture you originally posted of the car at Aintree is to short to be the same tail on the car as you posted from the book. Also the drivers head is way above the top of the Aintree tail compared with the German GP tail.
Why the interest, have you found some more bits and want to recreate the Mk1 version of the car?;)

[M bennett]

I would say that the tail in the picture you originally posted of the car at Aintree is to short to be the same tail on the car as you posted from the book. Also the drivers head is way above the top of the Aintree tail compared with the German GP tail.
Why the interest, have you found some more bits and want to recreate the Mk1 version of the car?;)

Going back to the original Laystall F2, car there was a detailed article in Autosport March 11th 1960 which shows the car under construction. At that time it was using the 5 speed gearbox from Lotus 12 #354 (and not much else)
Howver Peter Morley has photos of a Laystall gearbox which we believe came from the Laystall car. IE the Lotus 12 gearbox was possibly replaced with a gearbox of Laystall's own design at some stage. Whilst the Laystall gearbox looks very bulky, what do we know about this unique gearbox? Who designed? Who made them? How many made? Were any design details or articles published in period?
Plus of course what happened to the Lotus gearbox that was removed?
Regards Mike B Adelaide

[David Beard]

Going back to the original Laystall F2, car there was a detailed article in Autosport March 11th 1960 which shows the car under construction. At that time it was using the 5 speed gearbox from Lotus 12 #354 (and not much else)
Howver Peter Morley has photos of a Laystall gearbox which we believe came from the Laystall car. IE the Lotus 12 gearbox was possibly replaced with a gearbox of Laystall's own design at some stage. Whilst the Laystall gearbox looks very bulky, what do we know about this unique gearbox? Who designed? Who made them? How many made? Were any design details or articles published in period?
Plus of course what happened to the Lotus gearbox that was removed?
Regards Mike B Adelaide

According to Doug in Theme Lotus, Anthony Brooke took the queerbox back for his 16 special. There it was used in conjunction with a Bristol gearbox. I have trouble making the dates for this align though...

Edited by David Beard, 29 April 2013 - 14:54.

[Barry Boor]

Would it be likely that the exhaust on the Laystall F.2 car would be similar to that on a Lotus 16?

[Tim Murray]

Part of the exhaust system is visible in this photo:

http://imageshack.us...56582358nn0.jpg

[Doug Nye]

I cannot, from mere memory, contribute much to this topic except to confirm that what I wrote about Anthony Brooke and his Lotus 12 was derived first person from him during research for 'Theme Lotus' in the late 1970s. I would have run the book text past him for confirmation before it was published.

DCN

[Barry Boor]

I wish I had seen this picture before - I was unaware of that intake near the right front wheel.

Where did this picture come from, Tim?

[Tim Murray]

You should have seen it before, Barry - I found it via Google Images and posted it in response to your WOEII query from a couple of months ago:

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=6244979

Here's what I posted then:

I too think it's Henry Taylor in the Laystall.

(Edited to add)

Here's a photo of Taylor in the Laystall at Goodwood. He doesn't seem to fit the cockpit any better:

http://imageshack.us...56582358nn0.jpg

Unfortunately, although I've entered all sorts of keyword combinations into Google Images, the photo steadfastly refuses to reappear. It would appear to be Taylor in the Laystall in the Lavant Cup at Goodwood, 18th April 1960.

What my latest search has thrown up, however, is a photo found on this page showing Taylor in the rebodied car at the 1960 German GP:

http://www.p-3motors...10/display/1430

[Barry Boor]

Ha! With a flipping yellow star right over the top of the bit I want most to see.

Clearly they played around with the bodywork quite a bit during the season.

But at least I know about the exhaust now.

Had I seen this picture an hour ago, I wouldn't have poured the rubber over my buck, which could have done with some modification but the rubber is so expensive I'm not wasting it.

[RWB]

Dr Tony Goodwin's book "Doctor on the Grid" has a photo (page 32) of the Laystall with second body style, after he had crashed it at Silverstone in November 1960 in driver trials for the UDT Laystall team. He didn't get the drive.