27 replies to this topic

[f1steveuk]

Apart from the obvious driving position, there isn't a huge difference between these two cars to look at. Railton did the body for 135, but was he responsible for 179, of was it just a "copy"? Bit basic I know, but I'm not a MG buff and have limtied books on them.

[Vitesse2]

Sid Enever designed EX179. It was basically a stock TD chassis, with a long low bodyshell "in which the influence of EX135 was clearly discernible". ("Maintaining the Breed" by John Thornley 2nd ed. p143)

[RS2000]

Drove past former MG factory and BMC Comps Dept site today. Too depressing to take a photo of B&Q etc. that despoils the hallowed ground.

[f1steveuk]

Thanks, much as I expected. 179 just looked so similar, but Railton's daughter told me should could find no record of it in his paperwork.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Sid Enever designed EX179. It was basically a stock TD chassis, with a long low bodyshell "in which the influence of EX135 was clearly discernible". ("Maintaining the Breed" by John Thornley 2nd ed. p143)

Something fishy about this. EX179 was not 'basically a stock TD chassis'. It sounds as though Vitesse might be referring to EX172, aka 'UMG 400' which was a TD built for George Phillips by MG for the 1951 Le Mans race. 'MG' by F. Wilson McComb describes "... an exceptionally good-looking body on modern lines which Syd Enever (Ahem, not 'Sid'!) has designed with the Gardner-MG at the back of his mind." This was the car that looked so similar to the MGA, then four years into the future.

EX179 came later. You might say that EX172/UMG 400 - TD under the skin - was in part instrumental in inspiring EX175 but it differed significantly. McComb again: "... he (Syd Enever) designed a new frame with its side members spaced well apart so that driver and passenger could sit low between them, one each side of the transmission line."

EX175 was presented to Len Lord in 1952 who, still in his rage against William Morris, rejected it outright, for the apple of his eye at that time was the lovely new Austin-Healey, a terrific strategy for getting rid of his Austin Atlantic engines.

Fast forward to 1954. MG were back into record breaking. It was determined, after some wind tunnel testing, that EX175 was insufficiently aerodynamically efficient for the task so new bodywork with wheels spats, undershield and cockpit cover was fitted and this, finally, was EX179. A long way from the TD and only one significant step - the B Series engine - away from the MGA.

[Hse289]

Apologies for reviving an old thread but did Ken Miles race MG EX179 twice? As i have read in various sources stating that he drove this car in 1954 and 1956 with Johnny Lockett and George Eyston. I have seen the same picture of Miles standing with Eyston and one is captioned 1954 and the other 1956. Anyone know? Paul

Edited by Hse289, 29 June 2009 - 09:13.

[D-Type]

Have I got my EX's right:

EX 120 - George Eyston's original special midget
EX 127 - George Eyston's "Magic Midget"
EX 135 - George Eyston car sold to Goldie Gardner who set countless records with it
EX 172 - 1951 Le Mans prototype on a TD chassis that looked very like an MGA
EX 179 - 1954 record breaker with chassis based on prototype MGA rather than a TD one (this I am not sure about), the subject of this thread
EX 182 - 1955 Le Mans MGA prototype
EX 181 - the rear engined Twin Cam teardrop car driven By Stirling Moss and later by Phil Hill

If the data I'm working from is correct it's curious that EX 182 should appear in public before EX 181

[f1steveuk]

Have I got my EX's right:

EX 120 - George Eyston's original special midget
EX 127 - George Eyston's "Magic Midget"
EX 135 - George Eyston car sold to Goldie Gardner who set countless records with it
EX 172 - 1951 Le Mans prototype on a TD chassis that looked very like an MGA
EX 179 - 1954 record breaker with chassis based on prototype MGA rather than a TD one (this I am not sure about), the subject of this thread
EX 182 - 1955 Le Mans MGA prototype
EX 181 - the rear engined Twin Cam teardrop car driven By Stirling Moss and later by Phil Hill

If the data I'm working from is correct it's curious that EX 182 should appear in public before EX 181

That's the list I have, in the same order, as I was told, 181 took longer to build than expected!

[Hse289]

On the Britsh Pathe news website there is a short clip of EX179 mentioning Miles and Eyston in 1954, so did Miles again go back in 1956 with Johnny Lockett?
There is also a clip of Phil Hill in the same car but different colour scheme. Not sure if it is ok to post links here but you can get to the clips easy by typing George Eyston in the search box.

[JB Miltonian]

There is an article about EX179's speed record attempts in "Sports Car International" January 1957. Yes, Ken Miles was part of the 1956 team, along with George Eyston, Alec Hounslow, Geoffrey Healey, Johnny Lockett, and Carroll Shelby.

[Hse289]

JB Miltonian, thank you for your reply, im going to try and find a little model of this car. Do you know if the car looked identical in 54 & 56, decals etc. I think i,ll have to look through the book stalls at Goodwood this weekend and pick up a relevant book. Cheers, Paul

[D-Type]

JB Miltonian, thank you for your reply, im going to try and find a little model of this car. Do you know if the car looked identical in 54 & 56, decals etc. I think i,ll have to look through the book stalls at Goodwood this weekend and pick up a relevant book. Cheers, Paul

At the bigger swapmeets, a dealer who specialises in LSR models sometimes has a stall. As it's not really my field, I don't have any details. Next time I see him I'll ask and try and get his card or other details. Don't hold your breath as I only go to a couple a year these days.

Grand Prix Models (search for MG with Event "Speed Records") list a few 1/43 MG models: EX135 (Humbug) at £27 for the kit, EX179 and EX181 at £45 for the kit and £95 built, a diecast of Ex 181 at £54 so someone at Goodwood might have the diecasts.
They also list a book MG Record-Breakers from Abingdon by Knudson, ISBN ISBN1583881166. at £22.95

Edit: Link corrected

Edited by D-Type, 30 June 2009 - 20:39.

[Hse289]

The EX179 model is made by Mach 1 models i think but i have,nt seen a picture of it. Will look out for that, plus the book sounds good too. Thanks for the info.

[JB Miltonian]

This isn't really a subject that I know much about, but I've been looking at some old magazines. Here is a picture of the team at the 1954 Bonneville event., taken from "Auto Age", May 1955. The caption identifies the car as EX 137, but the text identifies it as EX 179. There is a color picture of EX 179 on the cover of the SCI magazine mentioned earlier. There is a cutaway drawing (Theo Page) in Road & Track, November 1954, also a picture of Eyston and Miles next to the car. There's a cutaway drawing (C.O. LaTourette) in the SCI article (January 1957).

[D-Type]

Interesting, that photo shows EX 179 was left hand drive. Why?
EX 135 was (naturally) right hand drive.

Edit: all pics on the web show it as right hand drive, could this be an Austin Healey from about the same time?

Edited by D-Type, 01 July 2009 - 14:28.

[David McKinney]

It does have an MG badge on the nose ;)

EX 181 of course had a central driving position

[David McKinney]

...and here's EX135 during a promotional tour of NZ in 1958

[f1steveuk]

"EX 135 was (naturally) right hand drive."

Was it? Maybe at first. This is me (with Mrs Gardner looking on) trying it for size, and I recall it being centralish! Rare picture, I have hair and am wearing a suit and tie!

[D-Type]

"EX 135 was (naturally) right hand drive."

Was it? Maybe at first. This is me (with Mrs Gardner looking on) trying it for size, and I recall it being centralish! Rare picture, I have hair and am wearing a suit and tie!

I always thought it was RHD so the driver didn't have to sit above the drive shaft.

[JMH]

Yes it was. However the off-set CWP set up allowed the driver to sit in between the chassis side-rails which allowed a much more central driving position than a std K3, but still technically RHD.

JMH

[f1steveuk]

Yes it was. However the off-set CWP set up allowed the driver to sit in between the chassis side-rails which allowed a much more central driving position than a std K3, but still technically RHD.

JMH

That would agree with my faded memory!! How on earth Goldie slotted his frame in is beyond me!

[Hse289]

Excellent picture JB

[D-Type]

Interesting, that photo shows EX 179 was left hand drive. Why?
EX 135 was (naturally) right hand drive.

Edit: all pics on the web show it as right hand drive, could this be an Austin Healey from about the same time?

I've now found out that EX179 was LHD in 1954 but was changed to RHD for 1956. i don't know why.

[tbolt]

I've now found out that EX179 was LHD in 1954 but was changed to RHD for 1956. i don't know why.

A new engine was installed and the driving position was moved out of the way of the exhausts.

[BritishV8]

Have I got my EX's right:

EX 120 - George Eyston's original special midget
EX 127 - George Eyston's "Magic Midget"
EX 135 - George Eyston car sold to Goldie Gardner who set countless records with it
EX 172 - 1951 Le Mans prototype on a TD chassis that looked very like an MGA
EX 179 - 1954 record breaker with chassis based on prototype MGA rather than a TD one (this I am not sure about), the subject of this thread
EX 182 - 1955 Le Mans MGA prototype
EX 181 - the rear engined Twin Cam teardrop car driven By Stirling Moss and later by Phil Hill

If the data I'm working from is correct it's curious that EX 182 should appear in public before EX 181

Very slightly off-topic... but any list of experimental MG racecars is incomplete without mentioning EX186.

For those who aren't familiar with that one, here's the most detailed article available about EX186: the Forgotten LeMans MGA

[Marticelli]

Very slightly off-topic... but any list of experimental MG racecars is incomplete without mentioning EX186.

And for completeness there is also EXF, which ran at Bonneville in 1997 and again in 2007 and 2008, pictured in September 2008 when I was one of its support team...

[JMH]

The MG EX series did not refer to specific cars, but Experimental Projects early ones (as far as is known) were:

EX101-109 Projects to modify M Types to 12/12 Spec
EX110 12/12 cars
EX115 The sliding trunion chassis frame
EX120 750cc record car (no longer exists)
EX125 Supercharger installation for the C Type
EX127 The "Magic Midget" (no longer exists)
EX129 F Type with wider track
EX130 "AB" Cross-flow cylinder head
EX132 K3751 (the prototype K3)
EX135 Humbug/K3023
EX152 Special P/Q built to order
EX155 The first T type
& so on (pity they put the camshaft in the wrong place from there on in)

JH

[werks prototype]

What about MG EX-E? (Or would/should that be considered a non-runner)