35 replies to this topic

[deepsnow_20]

This is x-posted from the main "Racing Comments" forum. I was told I should post over here on the Nostalgia Forum.

Hi all. I found this forum through google.

My father is a retired amatuer racer....at the end he of his career he was Racing Formula Atlantics, before the FA he Sports 2000's, some FF's, maybe some others I'm forgetting about.

Anyway, through his years of being completely passionate about everything-motorsports he acquired a large amount of racecar collectibles. He's retiring now, and as he moves (to play golf for the next 30 years) he doesn't want to carry around all of his collection. So, he gave it all to me.

I don't really want the stuff, and he encouraged me to sell it if I don't want it.

It is all in a storage container about an hour drives away, so I'll be getting it all to my house over the next few weeks.

I got the first trunk-load today, and it's pretty much every AUTOCOURSE book from the mid-60's to the current. I think they're first edition, as I can't find any "edition" info anywhere. He'd order them as soon as they were available every year. Look at them once, and then put them on the shelf. They are all in mint condition, except some shelf-wear. They are all hard-bound.

He also has a set of F-1 Prints (or maybe indy?) Every year for maybe 15 in a row. I don't remember the name, but will have them in a few days.

If these are very valuable I may just keep them, but I honestly have no idea. Does anyone know much about these books? They are located in New Mexico USA.

Also, are there any websites where I may have luck selling these? I'll go Ebay if I must, but I figured this might be a good place to start.

Thanks

Thanks

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by deepsnow_20
This is x-posted from the main "Racing Comments" forum. I was told I should post over here on the Nostalgia Forum.

Hi all. I found this forum through google.

My father is a retired amatuer racer....at the end he of his career he was Racing Formula Atlantics, before the FA he Sports 2000's, some FF's, maybe some others I'm forgetting about.

Anyway, through his years of being completely passionate about everything-motorsports he acquired a large amount of racecar collectibles. He's retiring now, and as he moves (to play golf for the next 30 years) he doesn't want to carry around all of his collection. So, he gave it all to me.

I don't really want the stuff, and he encouraged me to sell it if I don't want it.

It is all in a storage container about an hour drives away, so I'll be getting it all to my house over the next few weeks.

I got the first trunk-load today, and it's pretty much every AUTOCOURSE book from the mid-60's to the current. I think they're first edition, as I can't find any "edition" info anywhere. He'd order them as soon as they were available every year. Look at them once, and then put them on the shelf. They are all in mint condition, except some shelf-wear. They are all hard-bound.

He also has a set of F-1 Prints (or maybe indy?) Every year for maybe 15 in a row. I don't remember the name, but will have them in a few days.

If these are very valuable I may just keep them, but I honestly have no idea. Does anyone know much about these books? They are located in New Mexico USA.

Also, are there any websites where I may have luck selling these? I'll go Ebay if I must, but I figured this might be a good place to start.

Thanks

Thanks

'60s Autocourse books are much sought after and worth anything from £50 to £100 or even more!

The best thing to do is catalogue what you have and then check out on EBAY what these sort of items are fetching. You will be surprised how much some items are worth and equally shocked how little other bits and pieces can be bought for.

Best of luck!

[Hieronymus]

You are sitting on a little goldmine, especially the AUTOCOURSE books. Hold on to it, until you get a very good offer. Unfortunately it seems you are located in the USA, so I loose out!

[ensign14]

*thinks about offering £100 for the lot*

[D-Type]

I'm sure that The Watkins Glen Research Center would gratefully accept anything you can't sell off.

[Chris Townsend]

Deep Snow

I think that Allen Brown and I would be very interested in Formula Atlantic material relating to your father's racing in that formula.
This may not be obvious stuff: we are after programmes, organisers information sheets for races, bills of sale for cars and photos. This stuff has only limited market value, if any, and often gets binned in situations such as this.

A number of other drivers with substantial archives are now offering us this kind of material, and after we have collated it for publication on oldracingcars.com it will be donated to the archives at Watkins Glen for future research.

Who is your father by the way?

Chris

[Allen Brown]

The Autocourse, especially those before 1975, are worth good money on ebay. Magazines also sell reasonably well and the prints could also sell well depending on the subject matter. F1 pictures after about 1972 are too common to attract high values but good quality prints from the 1960s can be valuable.

However, as Chris has said, a good part of what you may have will only have value to researchers like me and Chris as we try to document all the motor racing worth documenting in the 1960s and 1970s. We are always keen to acquire material and we always pledge to put it into the public domain whether through the site or by passing it on to a library.

Fortunately, we do presently have the facilities to store significant donations while we work through them and we then try to find a permanent home for them where they can be publicly available. Watkins Glen is currently the best place as a final home.

Take a look round OldRacingcars.com for an idea of what we do, especially Chris's F/Atlantic area. You may well find your father's results in there.

Allen

[HDonaldCapps]

This is also a Heads-Up or Warning to those of you with extensive collections as to one of the things to expect when you are no longer around, at least there is the hope that little or none of this will be sitting on the curb waiting for the trash collector to come around.

It makes me shudder to even contemplate how many collections of books and magazines are sitting in garbage dumps or in closets or molding away in basements once the enthusiast either passed away or, as in this case, moved unto other things in life, such as retirement.

I am still wondering what happened to various collections, especially that of Phil Harms, a collection that deserved to be placed at the IMRRC or somewhere similar -- that that there are many, but there are a few out there almost as good, the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing outside Harrisburg at York Springs, PA pops into mind, although I have not dealt with them in some time.

Suzanne Wiseman at Appalachian State University in Boone NC is building up a collection centered around stock car racing, but it seems to be broadening its scope simply through its acquistions.

Food for thought since we are all mortal.

[Vitesse2]

Good point Don.

Assuming there's anything left after the taxman's ravages, I intend leaving my accumulation to Beaulieu, with the proviso that they can sell anything which duplicates their own collection and use the proceeds for magazine and book conservation.

[Allen Brown]

That was also my intention until I noticed that Beaulieu now charge for entry to the library.

What we really need in the UK is a not-for-profit library with free access to the public funded by donations or by the MIA. Then people could include it in their will with no concerns that what they leave will be used for personal gain.

Yes, I know it's not an original idea.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Is their a tax advantage leaving something to a registered charity? Doesn't it escape inheritance tax?

Allen

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
That was also my intention until I noticed that Beaulieu now charge for entry to the library.

What we really need in the UK is a not-for-profit library with free access to the public funded by donations or by the MIA. Then people could include it in their will with no concerns that what they leave will be used for personal gain.

Yes, I know it's not an original idea.

Allen

Beaulieu have always charged researchers.

Although it's the National Motor Museum, they receive no public funding.

The only alternatives would seem to be Motor Racing Archive (who don't have a public facility AFAIK) and Gaydon, but their ethos is more on general motoring history than motor sport. Haynes Motor Museum have been promising an archive for years, but the last time I was there the building was being used as builders' storage.

[D-Type]

In Britain there is the National Motor Racing Archive - I know nothing about it other than their website Here

[Doug Nye]

Quite how 'National' that 'institution' might be I do not know. But then I have never asked.

The late Peter Richley - perhaps the greatest motoring literature collector there has ever been - was always very uncomfortable about museums. He memorably told me once "Never leave anything to a museum - they will undoubtedly, and probably unwittingly, neglect it, lose it, or bloody well sell it!". Ultimately he sold his wonderful collection to a museum - for a seven-figure Sterling sum. And he wasn't happy, even then.

DCN

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Is their a tax advantage leaving something to a registered charity? Doesn't it escape inheritance tax?

1. Yes, in most countries.
2. What's inheritance tax? -

Oh to be in Queensland, now that winters here,

Andrew

[Alan Cox]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes

2. What's inheritance tax?

It's the UK government's way of squeezing your corpse until the pip squeaks - not content with draining you dry all through your working life, it pockets a slice off any capital you have been fortunate enough to leave for your heirs.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Beaulieu have always charged researchers.

Not in my experience
Mind you, I suppose it depends on the research
And although it's probably a good dozen years or more since I used their services, you did say "always"

[Frank Verplanken]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Ultimately he sold his wonderful collection to a museum - for a seven-figure Sterling sum.

For a collection of literature items only ? That's an incredible amount of money to me ! I guess both quantity and quality justified it, but could you please enlight us on the nature of the collection ?

On the same subject, Jabby Crombac's wish was, unsurprisingly, that all his motor racing belongings were to be auctionned after his death. A way to be sure nothing close to a "Crombac mausoleum" would never exist I suppose. His personal Sport-Auto collection (complete with the rare issue #0) went for 16,000 euros IIRC. And of course lots of Jimmy Clark and Lotus related memorabilia was send to the world that day too.

[deepsnow_20]

I haven't seen them (all perfect and mint, framed), but the next item up is about 15 years (late 60's to early 80's maybe, missing a few years perhaps) of prints entitled (if I remember correctly): "Grand Prix of the United States" all of them prints of paintings from Watkins Glen. I've tried to google that information and have so far come up with very little.

Does anyone know anything about these prints?

Once I get eveything in the house, I'll catalouge all of it, make sure I know what I have, then I'll most likely Ebay the lot one item at a time. Maybe saving the the 1966 Autocourse for my daughter. I do have (on my table next to me) the 1969, which on Froogle is coming up for around $500USD. Wild. I had no idea these would be worth much at all.

Thanks for all of your help, and before any of this stuff goes up for auction I'll let you all know...maybe give you guys first option to buy.

If anyone knows anything about those prints I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.

[TooTall]

The "Grand Prix of the United States" prints sound like the event posters for the US Grand Prix at Watkins Glen for that era. They featured wonderful Michael Turner artwork. Search Ebay using the terms "grand prix" poster "watkins glen" and you should get some hits. Below is an example.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

Did your father race on the West Coast? I may have a photo of him.

Cheers,
Kurt

[philippe charuest]

Originally posted by TooTall


Did your father race on the West Coast?

Cheers,
Kurt

or in canada

[Scuderia SSS]

Hi deepsnow.
I have sent you a PM.
Hope your father enjoys his retirement!! I bet he wont be able to resist going to the odd race or two though...its in the blood you know

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
This is also a Heads-Up or Warning to those of you with extensive collections as to one of the things to expect when you are no longer around, at least there is the hope that little or none of this will be sitting on the curb waiting for the trash collector to come around.

At least his father kept it.

Mine, an eminent Bike racing journalist, and later press officer at Donington Park, whom I saw very rarely, moved to a smaller flat a few years before his death and, seeing no use in the thirty years of Autocourse, driver biographies, and various that were clogging up his home (plus a mountain of bike stuff) put the lot on a bonfire. Philistine.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by Lifew12
At least his father kept it.

Mine, an eminent Bike racing journalist, and later press officer at Donington Park, whom I saw very rarely, moved to a smaller flat a few years before his death and, seeing no use in the thirty years of Autocourse, driver biographies, and various that were clogging up his home (plus a mountain of bike stuff) put the lot on a bonfire. Philistine.

This is far more typical than most realize. Similar examples abound in not only racing but other pursuits as well -- an incredible collection of aviation books, magazines, and materials was taken to the dump and just left there as trash and disposed of; a huge collection of railroading books and magazines were put in an outdoor shed where the elements turned it all into a heap of moldy pulp. These are just two of the horror stories I can personally attest to among many.

[Sharman]

I've mentioned it before, vindictive ex spouses have a lot to answer for

[deepsnow_20]

Just wanted to let you all know that I have listed ONLY the Michael Turner Prints (1969-77) on Ebay. I do NOT have the '66 AUTOCOURSE, but I do have the '68.

I am going to list the books, but not for another two weeks. I am going to a wedding in 10 days, so I'll be out of town for a week...I don't want to have too many auctions ending at once.

If any of you are interested, my username at Ebay is the same as here (deepsnow_20).

Thanks. Oh, if you're interested in purchasing any of the AUTOCOURSE books, let me know what year you're looking for and how much you'd like to buy it for. Ebay is a total pain, so I'd rather skip that route.

thanks all!

[philippe charuest]

put a LINK please, cant find it

[deepsnow_20]

http://cgi.ebay.com/...01598&rd=1&rd=1

I recognize that's an insanely long url...so, the auction number is: 320104001598.

This is for the 1970 print. If you look at other items I am selling you'll see the other 8. The went up earlier this afternoon and will end in one week.

Good luck.

[bigears]

I have decided to donate some of my 'spare' Birmingham Superprix memorabilia to the Motor Racing Archives as they didn't sell for the second time via eBay.

I am sure the memorabilia I got will have a good home at the MRA.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Frank Verplanken

For a collection of literature items only ? That's an incredible amount of money to me ! I guess both quantity and quality justified it, but could you please enlight us on the nature of the collection ?

Peter was, as Doug says, probably the ultimate collector and his collection was full of very high quality items (the rarest of brochures, books and so forth) and BIG. Bigger I guess than many of the leading dealer's stocks combined. And I seem to recall that this was in fact his second collection of such items as he had already sold the first for a six figure sum and commenced to build up another, even better from scrath with the procedes....
Unlike some of those who further their "collecting" by simply aquiring someone elses carefully amassed archive in one go, Peter was the real deal, often appearing at humble autojumbles and swap meets to look thought the stalls for items he hadn't got or thought he could use as a future swap . Often he ran a stall himself. I have no idea where his money came from but he was a well-spoken gentleman of the old school who always reminded me a little of Robert Donat in the later part of "Goodbye Mister Chipps". You could easily imagine his as a spectator at Brooklands, he just seemed very much of that era.

[Frank Verplanken]

Thanks for the precisions, Simon . I think I can picture both the gentleman and his collection now, thanks to your evocative post !

[Wolf]

Oh guy, and you lot are complaining (Don and Lifew12)... : My father raced in dark ages of my country's motorsport and doesn't remember a bit of it (and I wouldn't say he's old at all)- all I got out of him are two meager anecdotes (he winning a terrible dice with a priest in a Mercedes, he having driven a stock Fiat 500 and ultimately winning a grand prize of a 2 yards length of a cloth, to have a tailored suit, which was I think, a luxury back then, and one other not strictly related to matter at hand). Unfortunately, I'm also cursed with same fault of memory banks, but I digress...

Deepsnow- I can say that You've come at right place to get the value and asking price of such items; the *gentlemen* here are the real deal. I know, I have taken avail of their kindness and have been much better off for it (I wish they could say the same )...

P.S. Don, it's frightening how much of quality books in all areas get tossed out into the garbage- a friend of mine got some *splendid* books when our university threw them out in a garbage bin (he got a tip from a fellow that worked there)- most of them are even now considered as ultimate reference works in that field. Shocking stuff...

[ensign14]

Perhaps that's a major benefit of ebay and suchlike. People are less inclined to sling stuff if they think they can get a bob or two...

[Allen Brown]

I completely agree that ebay is great for ensuring that books, prints and programs aren't lost as much as they were. It's the notebooks, results sheets, correspondence and other paper that still get chucked though.

Allen

[D-Type]

That is what I was trying to say in post 5.

There is stuff that is 'valuable' in the sense you can sell it, e.g. copies of Autocourse and there is stuff of no commercial value that is 'invaluable' to researchers and historians.

[bradbury west]

Just thought I would bump this forward from the Book thread as it is always relevant, IMHO. Duncan's comment below, highlighted, is particularly pertinent, I feel. I have not had cause to contact Motor Racing Archive since Martin's death, but its aims should plrease everyone.

I know there are moves in various circles to scan various circuit programmes, race result sheets etc, to establish localised archives etc. Perhaps we should all think about something like that with our own stuff, on a more modest scale compared to Allen's register. Our knowledge will disappear with our life's end, but some form of tangible archive is always useful. But then, I suppose our records have a commercial value...........which is where we came in. Thoughts anyone?

There is stuff that is 'valuable' in the sense you can sell it, e.g. copies of Autocourse and there is stuff of no commercial value that is 'invaluable' to researchers and historians.

Roger Lund