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Racing models in 1:87 scale


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#1 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 13:49

:wave: I have long been wanting to open this thread , and now seems the time to be right as there are many models to get and more are coming. This is thew scale I try to operate with , I need glasses , but not all do , and I have room for them as well as the money. Admittedly I would love to go 1:43 but for the above reasons this is it. Unless a lot beat me to it I will try to list models and show pics.

Regards and wellcome to all.

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#2 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 15:30

Model cars have been produced over the years in various scales, including 1:1 down to 1:750 (!).

In scale 1:87th model cars have been developped from the model rail accessory to a real model. This scale is als know as H0, or Half Zero (Halb Null coming from the german indication for model rail road scale). Full Zero you may guess (or 0-scale) is in fact the more know 1/43rd scale, also originating from the model rail industry.

In 87th scale the first models were no more than a plastic body and two axles with wheels clicked in. Later specialized makes added more detail such as an interior, body details and chroming.
Makes such as Herpa, Brekina, Wiking were very inventive around 1990.
Still racing was never such a hot item as racing often dont have a part in a model rail road setting. But especially the last years you see more models are released.

Noteworthy I guess is french manufacturer Le Mans Miniatures that produces an excellent 1/87th resin kit line with racers including a DBR1, GT40, Ferraris, Porsche 908/3 and GT1, Audi R8 etcetera.

Check out:
http://www.lemansmin...94462f7363f2d3b

#3 Mal9444

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 17:53

What scale, if any, were Matchbox and Hotwheels? Ihave some very nice Matchbox models, including pre-war Bentley and some other sports cars, also some Hotwheel D-types (I had a brief fad of collecting model D-types, thinking I would see if I could have examples of all reasonable-looking versions - but that fad got overtaken by the current one, presentlyy dormant until next winter, of trying to collect a 1/43rd scale represnative of every car in the 1955 Dundrod TT).

#4 Ren de Boer

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 18:00

Arjen, as I am writing this, I am looking over a whole range of 1:87 race cars: DTM, German Super Touring (STW) and even one example from the long-defunct Dutch Touring Car Championship. Especially Herpa, but also Rietze (Audi 80 Super Touring), so there is quite a lot to find. Recently, Schuco has done a lot of 1:87 DTM cars as wel, but I must admit it is mainly touring cars, you will hardly find any single-seaters in HO-size.

Happy collecting!

#5 petefenelon

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 20:01

Originally posted by Mal9444
What scale, if any, were Matchbox and Hotwheels? Ihave some very nice Matchbox models, including pre-war Bentley and some other sports cars, also some Hotwheel D-types (I had a brief fad of collecting model D-types, thinking I would see if I could have examples of all reasonable-looking versions - but that fad got overtaken by the current one, presentlyy dormant until next winter, of trying to collect a 1/43rd scale represnative of every car in the 1955 Dundrod TT).


Matchbox (and Corgi Juniors) were nominally 1:72, but I believe that at least with Matchbox the scale varied somewhat up and down from model to model to make them fit the box - anything from 1:64 to 1:100 for vans/lorries!. Majorette (which were occasionally available in the UK and had an interesting if rather French-oriented range, especially strong on strange French commercials and emergency vehicles) were usually the slightly odd 1:66, IIRC, although I think they moved on to the even odder 1:58 later.

HotWheels I think were around 1:64.


#6 scags

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 20:45

The Aurora and AF/x slot cars were also around HO scale. I had a slot car set up with the train set, including a level crossing. We always tryed for the best train /car interface!

#7 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 22:56

Take a look at these sites , and note its HO (1:87) :

www.hightechmodell.de

www.lemansminiatures.com

www.schuco.de (edition 1:87)

www.schuco.de (piccolo)

www.busch-modell.com

Ricko Modell are distibuted by Busch

www.herpa.de

www.magic-promotion.com (distributed by Herpa)

www.brekina.de

Trumpeter is distributed by Brekina

www.bub-toys.de

There is also some small producers who sometimes have good models as well as extras for model building.

More infos to come , or be welcome to ask me here or by e-mail

#8 Mal9444

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 06:56

Originally posted by scags
The Aurora and AF/x slot cars were also around HO scale. I had a slot car set up with the train set, including a level crossing. We always tryed for the best train /car interface!


Ghoulish - but fun :up:

#9 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:35

Originally posted by René de Boer
Arjan, as I am writing this, I am looking over a whole range of 1:87 race cars: DTM, German Super Touring (STW) and even one example from the long-defunct Dutch Touring Car Championship. Especially Herpa, but also Rietze (Audi 80 Super Touring), so there is quite a lot to find. Recently, Schuco has done a lot of 1:87 DTM cars as wel, but I must admit it is mainly touring cars, you will hardly find any single-seaters in HO-size.

Happy collecting!


Rene,
You are quite right. But H0 is nothing compared to the world of 1/43rd. Let alone in kits you can find so many racing cars. E.g. the Porsche 956 was released in so many versions.

I recall that Yves Evrat did some F1 before tying up with Le Mans Miniatures.

#10 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:12

:wave: No arguing Arjan , 1:43 is THE scale if you want nearly anything !

Mentioning the 956/962 Brekina has released since last 2005 10 diff. 917s and since 2006 , 6 diff. 956/962 models !

And if you are not in a position to afford the more expensive ones 1:87 is THE way , also because they are fairly easy to modify , and if you do NOT have the room for big dioramas this scale should really fit. Me f.ex. have some room and can build a large one , wich in a nother scale would take up my whole living room , wich by the way would be nice if I could afford it.

The 1:87 manufactures is even getting in making fine copies of transporters , and there are hundreds of figures to go with this scale from Faller ,Preiser, Merten etc.

They are even painted and in diff. colours ! Lots of buildings too if you cannot do it yourself !

#11 FrankB

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 11:25

OT... but something that I have often wondered about since by Triang and Hornby Dublo train set days... why 1:87? Why not a slightly smaller 1:100 or a slightly larger 1:75. 1:87 seems to bear no relationship to anything.

Am I right in thinking that OO is in fact 4mm : 1 foot (about 1:75)? Once again, this seems odd for its mix of measurement systems. Or did the OO refer to the gauge of the model track in someway, which was not to exactly the same scale as the models that were running on them?

#12 petefenelon

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 11:45

O is 7mm to the foot, HO is 3.5mm to the foot or a gnat's over 1:87.

OO is 4mm to the foot (1:76) but the track gauge is smaller - 1:87 like HO in fact.

#13 D-Type

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 13:34

I once read that the reason for the 00/H0 situation is that when Hornby first produced Hornby Dublo they couldn't quite make the electric motors small enough to fit into H0 locos so they made them a bit bigger and made the carriages to match.

#14 FrankB

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 14:36

Originally posted by petefenelon
O is 7mm to the foot, HO is 3.5mm to the foot or a gnat's over 1:87.

OO is 4mm to the foot (1:76) but the track gauge is smaller - 1:87 like HO in fact.


Thanks for that, I had a vague memory that OO was running on the "wrong" gauge track for its scale.

Why such an odd ratio as 1:87 or a mix of metric and imperial units? Why not 1:100, 1:75 or 1:72 (1 inch : 6 ft)?

#15 Frank S

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 17:24

If there is an answer to "why" the odd scales, perhaps Mr Majorette could contribute a thought about the TR7 I have that is 1:53 (one to fifty-three) (says so, cast right on the bottom).

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#16 Francois78

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 22:02

And this Tomy-AFX Porsche 962 is exactly in 1/62nd scale but it's classified in HO slot racing....

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#17 D-Type

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 22:20

Originally posted by Frank S
If there is an answer to "why" the odd scales, perhaps Mr Majorette could contribute a thought about the TR7 I have that is 1:53 (one to fifty-three) (says so, cast right on the bottom).

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To fit the box? Not as trite as it sounds. This was certainly the case with Matchbox Toys.

Edit: This has already been said hasn't it? :blush: See post 5

#18 dbw

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 03:26

viking at one point had a 550 spyder and a 904 in 1/87th... i don't know if they are still produced.

#19 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 12:34

Wiking also had Vanwall , Cooper climax 58 and Lotus Ford 33/49 , but they are long out! Untill recently they also had many good sports cars , but in the past 2 years that program has been reduced. I did however forget in my list above , because they still have excellent Triumph TR4 ,MG A and Austin Healey 3000 open models.

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#20 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 14:20

Hello again , another worth mentioning, but only small numbers is :

www.maquettes-sai.fr


Having some fine french models , some exact for building transporters etc.

#21 dretceterini

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 16:13

A company called Bohemia did some Bugattis in 1/87th. I think they are (were?) Czech...

#22 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 06:54

Quite right dretceterini , in facts many models has been made in small quantities by many small makers through the years, but most are unobtainable. However if you go through the sites listed above some of these bigger producers are doing quite a bit nowadays , and if you want to repaint or rebuild/modify there is quite a lot to use.

So far , also outside this thread I have not "meat" many "builders" but they are there , and thats why I also opened this thread.

Searching on Google could spring some surprises for " beginners" or those who are curious !

Like : www.british-ho.freeserve.co.uk

www.1-87vehicles.org

1/87 vehicles club

Reminds me , anyone know about "Big 6" ? look at www.87thscale.info/big 6.htm

If you shuold be pondering building transporters Brekina has an excellent "furniture" transporter in 3 versions wich fit rather well with many transporters from the 50-60-70s.

Regarding transporters I will also note that "jmsells@ideaone.net" has some excellent building plans for transporters from earlier time.

Regarding some of the start comments as to other scales around 1:87. Well, a lot of usable models has been and are still made , but a scale is a scale and unfortunately they just dont fit !
The "worst" over the years has been Matchbox , having had a splendid range of models to all sizes, but only very few to be used as HO . Sometimes their size statements even were wrong! But we must remember their aim was kids , and succesfully they did it. Only it would have been very nice if......

In the Walthers cat. or homesite(?) there is a good compilation of what is available (and propably other dealers) and there are in facts also many small US man. who make fine models/usable models.

#23 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:00

:wave: Any model builders out there , or someone who know one who can make me some racin bodies in 1:87/HO ?????

#24 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:25

Bjorn,

What is your preference?:

A. Build from kit a curbside
B. Make a slot car
C. Make a model scratch build
D. Modify the world on a industrial manufactured model

#25 fausto

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:35

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
:wave: Any model builders out there , or someone who know one who can make me some racin bodies in 1:87/HO ?????


I build models, also from scratch, never did a complete 1:87 however, although some years ago did a Breadvan from a starting from GTO as a birthday present for a "Ferrarista" friend, I'm trying to get some pics of that car...meanwhile something I did can be seen @ http://img159.images...a25giu055ja.jpg

#26 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 14:26

To answer your quiestion Arjan , i have to say C , as I have not seen any suitable for modifying
the models I miss most.
To Fausto , fine pictures of fine models!

Of course there are lots of models never made and might never be made in HO, but some are, and I have been looking at Le Mans 1962 to 65. To reduce possibilities my "wish" is to have a reasonable model of the 1964 Maserati T151/3 (or T154 to some) . A second wish would be the 1962 T151 , but then I would need 3 ! .I do have some skills left , but not to form , or file or whatever a body. Arches for wheels , wich I have or could find is nessecary , but it need not have glass windows , black paint would do! To mark the windows and get the sharp edges that to me gives the car an aggressive angry look, would be a vital thing I believe.
Any ideas or offers ? My own work in "this" would then be to build the OM transporter of Maserati France , wich I can because i have the cabin. To build that is not forming but measuring , cutting and putting together!

#27 dretceterini

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 15:00

The few companies that have produced kits in 1/87 (suchas LeMans Miniatures) have not had much success. I think part of the reason is that it takes a rather skilled modeller to put something so small together properly.

#28 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 15:15

A link you gave was from High Tech Modell from Germany. They did the T61 Bird Cage in two versions. Including a photo-etch cage. Very impressing.

http://www.hightechmodell.de/

Here is a link to many 1/87 producers. They may have a base model for you.. Or even the 151's. There are many artists around you know.

http://www.1-87vehic...y/directory.php

Busch does some neat racers, including Silver Arrows!!!

http://www.busch-mod.../uwg/202-h0.htm

#29 P4Replica

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 20:54

Surprising nobody has mentioned the delightful little range of Ferrari P4's (and a Porsche 917K) by Carbone87 :confused:

See: http://perso.orange....rbone87pag.html

I'd post a photo of mine (built for me by a professional modeller under a miscroscope, literally) ....
.... if I was any good at macro photography. They even have photo-etched steering wheels and windscreen wipers !!

#30 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 05:32

Hi P4Replica , considering myself as not an expert , but a specialist on this scale , you took me by surprise !
Never seen or head about this P4. Looks great , made me at once think of LM67 ,what aline -up to make : Ferraris and Fords , the "Chap" could be made by oneself(?).......and others , nearly half the field is to have in HO , and a couple of others could be modified.!
Whatever kind of collector or enthusiast man is I believe there has to be some kind of "nerd" there!
In no scale you can get everything , and what I also try here is to PR this small scale , especially for those with lack of space and to a certain degree money. In the above case you would even be able to supply with a couple of transporters ready made or needing a repaint !
Just as 1/43 in cars ,and 1:50 in trucks (is becoming),as well as trains in this scale are BIG, racing could be growing with more knowledge!
No , I am not payed by any company (wish I was) but I think it too would be nice to share with others. So far good conversation and infos , but no nerds like myself.
If you havent had a look at some of the web sites shown , do it , and lets hear your opinion!

#31 Frank S

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:11

Mattel made this one, 1:87-size:

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Several more views of the same car H E R E

#32 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 07:24

To be Frank S I may soon alter my selfopinion to special instead of "ist", wether its 1:87 or close to , it looks gorgeous .Never seen over here. Still available ?
Thanks Frank , and top pictures !

#33 Rob Ryder

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 10:11

A part of Bjørn's collection...

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Rob

#34 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 16:03

Thanks Rob !

The models was made 40 years ago on Wiking models basis plus paperclips,plasticplate etc.,Humbrol enamel, a few transfer available at that time ! My pictures my hands and head made them , so theres not much left!

#35 P4Replica

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 23:35

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Hi P4Replica , considering myself as not an expert , but a specialist on this scale , you took me by surprise ! Never seen or head about this P4.

Bjorn.
I only stumbled across the Carbone87 P4s, (as unmade kits) purely by accident by trawling through eBay. I collect all kinds of P4-related automobilia - and models of them in any scale. These are the smallest two 'proper model' P4s that I've got in my collection. (I'll admit that I've also got a 'MicroMachines' P4, which is theoretically 1:110 scale - but that's more of a toy). :blush:
Next (slightly larger) size up is a built-up Bellini white-metal kit 'Piccolino' P4 spyder, which is actually 1:76, from memory.

See: http://www.87thscale...o/piccolino.htm

There's no way I could ever have built those Carbone87 P4's myself (even in the days when my eyesight was 100%), so as I said in my previous post, I had them built by a professional model builder - Rodney Rawlings, who did an absolutely superb job.
You can even make out the three different coloured lens segments on the rear tail-lights, under a magnifier !! :eek:
Hmmm. I really must try and take some photos of them soon. Utterly delightful little things. :)

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Whatever kind of collector or enthusiast man is I believe there has to be some kind of "nerd" there!

Just call me a P4 'obsessive'. LOL ! :smoking:

#36 Frank S

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 05:38

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
To be Frank S I may soon alter my selfopinion to special instead of "ist", wether its 1:87 or close to , it looks gorgeous .Never seen over here. Still available ?
Thanks Frank , and top pictures !

The model was a serendipitous find on eBay; I'd never seen one before, nor any since. It was not boxed, and I don't remember seeing a date associated with it.

For comparison, here's a 1:1 version at Parnelli's in Torrance, CA:

Posted Image

--
Frank S

#37 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 11:18

Allthough NOT 1:87/HO the Piccolino range was tremendous!

Hi Frank S , thanks for reading and answering. Beautiful pic of Parnellis car !

If you have looked through the webs in this thread, you might have found 50 racer plus some transporters and a lot sports and GT cars as well as saloons to modify! There has through the past years been at least the double that number available , but small companies in this fields obvious has trouble getting known , PR is expensive if you are not bigger. So many has dissappeared again , like Evrat and Morem . Busch HAS(still) a very fine Auto Union 1934-36 and Morem HAD a 1939 model, but not any more! BUT, LM Miniatures f.ex. is still ther , so it IS possible , and they have a large range with something for all. Thats why I wanted a model of the Maserati to line up with the Ford and Ferraris, still hoping to find a builder ! Or write the manufactures , the more they get , the bigger chance....

How difficult it is doesnt matter, there are still many HO collectors etc. and the only way to keep going is by not giving up!

#38 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 19:37

There is a Spanish model maker, EKO models, with very, very cheap models of cars from the 50's and 60's. They are as cheap that you can buy 3-4 cars, chop them into one, into the right scale. With new wheels (from Wiking, Herpa and Brekina), and a lot of plasticard and Humbrol, it is possible to make a good grid of touring cars from the 60's.
There is Renault R8's, painted in French blue they can be Gordini's
There is Saabs.
There is Seats, open up the hood at the back, and you have a Abarth 1000.
And so on... cheap and fun!
NSU...
Minis..
BMW 700...

Stefan
stefan.ornerdal@minmail.net
www.formula2.net

#39 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 08:33

Nearly right Stefan . The EKO wich are still available today , are very cheap. They are based on the Anguplas wich where from the 50/60s. They even have a Jaguar D , the only model of that in HO , and as you say many, but not all available , of the then sedans, to modify for racing versions !
Prices today lies between 2 & 3 EUROS.

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#40 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 06:09

:wave: On the site :www.87thscale.info you can see a picture of Big6 whitemetal kits ,a 5 pack
with interesting models like Jaguar, Ferrari and Aston Martin sportsracer. Unfortunately out of production. Anyone know about them ?

The David Piper 3 xPorsche 917 set also has a Video on them.

Jolly-Model of Italy also had announced a super range of HO Ferraris , anyone know if they ever came out ? :smoking:

#41 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 20:03

Got my High Tech Model Maserati T61 today! Over 60 parts. I might build it some day!

#42 Macca

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 21:14

I bought a Piccolino Ferrari P4 kit years ago..........must get round to finishing it.

Here seen with unfinished Hotwheels spyder conversion, 1/43 412P and 1/36 'freebie' from Shell a few years ago.

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#43 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 07:55

:wave: Got some LeMans Miniatures today also , looks great !

Arjan post 28 , can you give me a bsae model suggestion for the T151 ?

Macca , I would guess 1:32 behind, green 1:43 , Piccolinis left , but front left , it looks smaller?

#44 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 17:18

As earlier told you can get excellent and cheap TR¤, MGA and AH 3000 open sportscars from Wiking.

Then have a look at www.automobilia.de to see what you can do with them !!

#45 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 17:20

thats www.wiking.de

#46 Macca

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 20:41

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer

Macca , I would guess 1:32 behind, green 1:43 , Piccolinis left , but front left , it looks smaller?


The Bellini is front left - it will need a magnifying glass and a steady hand to add the intake splitters.....

The Hotwheels ones are on the right, and the one at the back has '1/36' stamped underneath - it's definitely smaller than a 1/32 slotcar body.

Paul M

#47 fausto

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 17:02

The Breadvan and the #86 Scarlatti-Ferraro Targa Florio GTO, made circa 1994 and 1991

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#48 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 19:09

:( Am I the only one who cannot or did not see Faustos pictures ?

#49 T54

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 01:57

Mentioning the 956/962 Brekina has released since last 2005 10 diff. 917s and since 2006 , 6 diff. 956/962 models !


I personally think that almost any and all models made in the HO scale (whatever one decides to use 1/87 or 1/60 scale for defining "HO" lack the basic form and detail offered by what I believe to be the best overal scale, that of 1/32th. HO cars almost always look like lumps.

Another advantage of the larger scale is that the available material is astounding because of their primary use as slot cars. Fly has for example, issued just about any and all 917's ever built or painted, as well as 908's, 906's etc., while other companies (Slot.It, Scalextric etc.) have produced splendid Ferraris from P4 to 312P's. This with frankly much greater precision (graphics, wheels, tires, form) than just about all 1/43 scale die-cast of even many of the expensive hand-built models.
Also their cost is vastly below that of the resin/metal 1/43 scale specialty display models, and not much above that of static Chinese-built Ixo or others, while offering a much greater amount of detail, and to top the picture, you can RACE them! :clap:

#50 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
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Posted 14 May 2007 - 11:24

:wave: T54 , comparing is irrelevant , and calling an 1:87 model a lumb , shows your lack of knowledge! I respect all opinions , but would never talk at this level! I also think its ok to talk about 1: 64 or other scales , but would like to point out the purpose of this thread :

1:87/HO


All other scales are not the above , and I also see, :smoking: I am glad to say , there are others than myself.

Fausto , beautiful models and pics , made me think a bit , there was also the Droge/Chris Kerrison GTO , and one of eastern manufactures made a GTO a bit wrong I believe, wich could be used for that one ! The Busch(Praline) is quite good I think! :smoking: