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Redbull would be fools to let DC go.


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#1 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 08:42

Why? because he's one of the fastest British drivers ever and with if Mika wasn't his team mate in those Merc years, he would have been double world champion by now.

I do not forget he finished ahead of him in two seasons.

In Bahrain he started 21st and raced to 8th with a super fast drive, before Webber came to Red Bull everyone was raving about how fast he is, sorry, he hasn't shown anything like the speed people expected, but DC has destroyed him in races.

He's the most experienced driver on the grid, the most experienced British driver of all time, and hes shamed his team mates at Red Bull, banishing Calvin Klein :smoking: to the depths of Honda

From autosport.

"I started 21st, he started eighth in Bahrain, and I do believe that I overtook him in the race in the same car," he said bluntly. "In Malaysia I was on a significantly longer strategy and was quicker than him.

"The facts are... my underlying race pace in each of the first three Grands Prix is quicker than Mark's. This is not me presenting to you something that cannot be proven, it is absolute fact."


Correct David, that is a fact.

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#2 RedBaron

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 08:54

I'm still very bitter over Spa 98, so I cannot fully agree with the statements on how good he is, though he is a capable driver, I guess and he has been quite fast in the race this season.

Didn't Mark get slowed down by his fuel flap being open in Bahrain and let DC past? Or did itv exaggerated the effect that had on his speed?

#3 Riker!

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 08:59

Yeah but if you look at Forix Webber had faster laps than DC up til the first pitstop and then his race was compromised and thats fact too if DC wants to look it up.

This was at Bahrain.

#4 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:04

Ah i tell you what, i was super raging at Spa 98, i which Schumacher punched him in the face for that,

Without a shadow of a doubt in my mind DC took him out that day, something i only forgave him for 2 years ago.

Webber did have a fuel cover open in Bahrain, this is true.

How much faster was he than DC before his stop? fuel load compared.

imo, Webber is as over rated as that new lynx chica wa wa boom boom or what ever the hell its called,

Lynx = flavoured sweat
Webber = Lynx

#5 Gecko

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:07

Originally posted by Hacklerf
"I started 21st, he started eighth in Bahrain, and I do believe that I overtook him in the race in the same car," he said bluntly. "In Malaysia I was on a significantly longer strategy and was quicker than him.

"The facts are... my underlying race pace in each of the first three Grands Prix is quicker than Mark's. This is not me presenting to you something that cannot be proven, it is absolute fact."


Correct David, that is a fact.


Yes, that is a fact. It is a very dishonest assessment that very conveniently ignores the reasons behind this fact, most of which were beyond Mark's control, but it's true.

#6 Riker!

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:07

Yeah good arguement Hacklerf..... youve certainly convinced me. :drunk:

#7 sanjiro

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:14

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Ah i tell you what, i was super raging at Spa 98, i which Schumacher punched him in the face for that,

Without a shadow of a doubt in my mind DC took him out that day, something i only forgave him for 2 years ago.

Webber did have a fuel cover open in Bahrain, this is true.

How much faster was he than DC before his stop? fuel load compared.

imo, Webber is as over rated as that new lynx chica wa wa boom boom or what ever the hell its called,

Lynx = flavoured sweat
Webber = Lynx


How much faster was webber than DC before the fule flap messed his race up...?

well taking the race from after lap 3 when the pace car went in and racing resumed and up to lap17 when DC pitted.
MW pulled out 13s DC

13s in 14 laps YOU DO THE MATHS

The less ignorant of you will know that DC was in slower trafic...but MW was held up by GF who was about 0.2 to 0.4 seconds slower than MW at that time.

#8 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:18

Originally posted by Riker!
Yeah good arguement Hacklerf..... youve certainly convinced me. :drunk:


im happy to have convinced you, when i woke up this morning it was my main priority, now my day is made

#9 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:19

Originally posted by sanjiro


How much faster was webber than DC before the fule flap messed his race up...?

well taking the race from after lap 3 when the pace car went in and racing resumed and up to lap17 when DC pitted.
MW pulled out 13s DC

13s in 14 laps YOU DO THE MATHS

The less ignorant of you will know that DC was in slower trafic...but MW was held up by GF who was about 0.2 to 0.4 seconds slower than MW at that time.


yea so when did webber and dc have clean laps? and what was the time difference, saying he pulled 13 s whilst DC was in traffic is of no use

#10 Bart

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:42

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Ah i tell you what, i was super raging at Spa 98, i which Schumacher punched him in the face for that,

Without a shadow of a doubt in my mind DC took him out that day, something i only forgave him for 2 years ago.

But at that time surely you hadn't forgiven Schumacher for Jerez '97, so what did you care? ;)

Seriously though, I think at Spa, DC wasn't thinking clearly and slowed down on the wrong part of the track. The accident was his fault, but it was not deliberate. It was only a few years later that he admitted he was to blame.

Before the season started, I said that Webber had to convincingly beat DC this season if he wanted a decent future in F1. I don't see that happening.

#11 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:47

Originally posted by Bart

But at that time surely you hadn't forgiven Schumacher for Jerez '97, so what did you care? ;)

Seriously though, I think at Spa, DC wasn't thinking clearly and slowed down on the wrong part of the track. The accident was his fault, but it was not deliberate. It was only a few years later that he admitted he was to blame.

Before the season started, I said that Webber had to convincingly beat DC this season if he wanted a decent future in F1. I don't see that happening.


LOL! I was 13 then, and when your 13 its do or die! i felt that was the year Schumacher would finally bring the title home, and for me at the time it felt like DC had robbed the whole of Italy, i can only say how i remember i felt. For sure it would be different if it happened now.

#12 kamix

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 10:13

Speaking of facts.

First a comparison of stints of both cars, in reverse order - hence both cars should be on similar fuel levels.

Australia
First stint
MW DC

PIT
1'27.501 1'29.645
1'27.746 1'29.371
1'27.975 1'28.560
1'28.091 1'28.622
1'28.583 1'29.876
1'28.312 1'29.060
1'28.675 1'29.331
1'28.782 1'29.185
1'29.023 1'29.468
1'29.271 1'29.494
1'28.721 1'30.031
1'29.739 1'29.954
1'29.043 1'30.474
1'29.543 1'30.106
1'29.471 1'30.337
1'29.785 1'30.525
1'29.878 1'29.811
1'30.279 1'30.415
1'30.259 1'30.972
1'30.632 1'30.656

Second stint (MW has fuel flap stuck open through this stint)
MW DC

PIT
1'28.931 1'28.150
1'31.006 1'27.834
1'28.298 1'27.706
1'28.509 1'27.740
1'28.662 1'27.762
1'29.141 1'27.976
1'29.121 1'28.051
1'29.112 1'27.955
1'30.683 1'27.858
1'29.885 1'28.239
1'29.868 1'28.437
1'29.972 1'28.462
1'30.338 1'28.784
1'30.118 1'31.731
1'29.538 1'30.113
1'30.196 1'29.194
1'29.876 1'29.216


Malaysia
First stint
MW DC

PIT PIT
1'42.121 1'42.326
1'38.989 1'39.598
1'39.297 1'39.284
1'39.237 1'39.282
1'39.097 1'39.388
1'39.214 1'39.758
1'39.315 1'39.954
1'39.532 1'39.965
1'39.606 1'39.879
1'39.455 1'39.622
1'39.729 1'40.045
1'40.266 1'39.817
1'39.920 1'39.916
1'39.949 1'41.056
1'40.038 1'40.010
1'40.047 1'40.862
1'39.733 1'40.447
1'40.175 1'40.313
1'40.262 1'40.308
1'40.451 1'40.671

Shortly after first stint DC has brake pedal problems and retires


Bahrain
First stint
MW DC

PIT PIT
1'38.651 1'39.377
1'35.863 1'36.332
1'37.144 1'37.326
1'36.056 1'37.003
1'36.136 1'36.611
1'36.848 1'37.438
1'36.163 1'36.576
1'36.118 1'36.712
1'36.311 1'36.296
1'36.067 1'36.361
1'36.427 1'37.196
1'36.600 1'37.874
1'37.150 1'36.898
1'36.471 1'38.459

Second stint (this is the one MW had fuel flap open, then eventually lost intake-chimney wing)
MW DC

PIT PIT
1'38.235 1'38.683
1'35.705 1'35.384
1'36.050 1'35.532
1'36.201 1'35.480
1'35.857 1'35.799
1'36.334 1'36.778
1'36.289 1'36.572
1'36.300 1'35.793
1'36.435 1'36.152
1'36.448 1'37.879
1'37.530 1'36.087
1'37.095 1'36.631
1'37.194 1'36.206
1'37.134 1'36.383
1'37.194 1'35.873
1'36.665 1'35.971
1'36.496 1'35.540

DC goes on to retire with drive shaft problem shortly after this stint.


And here's the full lap times in case you think I fixed the above.

Australia

Lap MW DC
1 1'41.188 1'47.538
2 1'30.632 1'31.894
3 1'30.259 1'31.457
4 1'30.279 1'31.608
5 1'29.878 1'31.344
6 1'29.785 1'31.638
7 1'29.471 1'30.302
8 1'29.543 1'30.656
9 1'29.043 1'30.972
10 1'29.739 1'30.415
11 1'28.721 1'29.811
12 1'29.271 1'30.525
13 1'29.023 1'30.337
14 1'28.782 1'30.106
15 1'28.675 1'30.474
16 1'28.312 1'29.954
17 1'28.583 1'30.031
18 1'28.091 1'29.494
19 1'27.975 1'29.468
20 1'27.746 1'29.185
21 1'27.501 1'29.331
22 1'57.9671'29.060
23 1'38.354 1'29.876
24 1'30.231 1'28.622
25 1'29.876 1'28.560
26 1'30.196 1'29.371
27 1'29.538 1'29.645
28 1'30.118 1'51.993
29 1'30.338 1'35.670
30 1'29.972 1'29.216
31 1'29.868 1'29.194
32 1'29.885 1'30.113
33 1'30.683 1'31.731
34 1'29.112 1'28.784
35 1'29.121 1'28.462
36 1'29.141 1'28.437
37 1'28.662 1'28.239
38 1'28.509 1'27.858
39 1'28.298 1'27.955
40 1'31.006 1'28.051
41 1'28.931 1'27.976
42 2'02.011 1'27.762
43 1'35.636 1'27.740
44 1'30.989 1'27.706
45 1'31.187 1'27.834
46 1'30.245 1'28.150
47 1'31.888 1'45.878
48 1'31.936 1'33.872
49 1'33.981
50 1'30.685
51 1'30.126
52 1'29.390
53 1'29.091
54 1'29.319
55 1'28.807
56 1'31.825
57 1'29.990


Malaysia

1 1'50.135 1'50.952
2 1'40.451 1'40.820
3 1'40.262 1'40.558
4 1'40.175 1'40.705
5 1'39.733 1'40.357
6 1'40.047 1'40.183
7 1'40.038 1'40.671
8 1'39.949 1'40.308
9 1'39.920 1'40.313
10 1'40.266 1'40.447
11 1'39.729 1'40.862
12 1'39.455 1'40.010
13 1'39.606 1'41.056
14 1'39.532 1'39.916
15 1'39.315 1'39.817
16 1'39.214 1'40.045
17 1'39.097 1'39.622
18 1'39.237 1'39.879
19 1'39.297 1'39.965
20 1'38.989 1'39.954
21 1'42.121 1'39.758
22 2'05.456 1'39.388
23 1'38.791 1'39.282
24 1'39.175 1'39.284
25 1'39.779 1'39.598
26 1'39.707 1'42.326
27 1'39.086 2'02.561
28 1'39.451 1'38.098
29 1'39.395 1'38.514
30 1'39.162 1'38.514
31 1'38.787 1'38.569
32 1'38.799 1'39.719
33 1'38.863 1'39.586
34 1'39.327 1'39.279
35 1'39.347 1'39.903
36 1'39.176 1'43.332
37 1'38.860
38 1'38.742
39 1'39.280
40 1'38.836
41 1'38.751
42 1'42.164
43 2'02.797
44 1'38.667
45 1'39.073
46 1'39.231
47 1'39.483
48 1'39.475
49 1'38.988
50 1'39.587
51 1'38.858
52 1'39.116
53 1'39.092
54 1'38.796
55 1'38.540
56 1'39.281


Bahrain

1 2'00.407 2'09.201
2 2'41.757 2'41.337
3 2'23.847 2'18.954
4 1'37.548 1'38.459
5 1'36.471 1'36.898
6 1'37.150 1'37.874
7 1'36.600 1'37.196
8 1'36.427 1'36.361
9 1'36.067 1'36.296
10 1'36.311 1'36.712
11 1'36.118 1'36.576
12 1'36.163 1'37.438
13 1'36.848 1'36.611
14 1'36.136 1'37.003
15 1'36.056 1'37.326
16 1'37.144 1'36.332
17 1'35.863 1'39.377
18 1'38.651 2'01.381
19 2'05.983 1'35.540
20 1'36.187 1'35.971
21 1'37.862 1'35.873
22 1'36.496 1'36.383
23 1'36.665 1'36.206
24 1'37.194 1'36.631
25 1'37.134 1'36.087
26 1'37.194 1'37.879
27 1'37.095 1'36.152
28 1'37.530 1'35.793
29 1'36.448 1'36.572
30 1'36.435 1'36.778
31 1'36.300 1'35.799
32 1'36.289 1'35.480
33 1'36.334 1'35.532
34 1'35.857 1'35.384
35 1'36.201 1'38.683
36 1'36.050 2'34.422
37 1'35.705
38 1'38.235
39 2'02.901
40 1'36.152
41 1'36.192

#13 Peri_Piket

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 11:16

Ah-ha. :p
Kamix is playing The Matrix.

#14 RDM

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 11:17

Originally posted by Hacklerf


im happy to have convinced you, when i woke up this morning it was my main priority, now my day is made

lol - nice comeback! :)

(Not that I have anything against the poster you were responding to either)

#15 sanjiro

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 12:10

Originally posted by Hacklerf


yea so when did webber and dc have clean laps? and what was the time difference, saying he pulled 13 s whilst DC was in traffic is of no use


2 points

1) DC was moving through trafic but MW was behing GF who was going 0.2-0.4s a lap slower than MW
2) If you wan to get grubby with this.....DC will always have to go through trafic to catch MW due to his poor qualifying in comparison to MW.

#16 Cplus

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 12:22

do we honestly need another thread on this?

we pretty much have 2 already.

#17 sanjiro

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 12:44

Originally posted by Cplus
do we honestly need another thread on this?

we pretty much have 2 already.


No we dont need another thread on this.
I find myself thinking i have already responded to generic MW blows comments and DC is the faster driver fantasies only to see i had done it in one of the other threads.

Please if posters wish to debate this go to the MW vs DC thread.

As to letting DC go.
Atm yes RBR would be fools as i dont think they have a young driver that can match DC.
DC also brings a wealth of race experience to the team.

Even if MW proves better than DC this does not indicate DC is no good.
That would suggest MW is no good and few in the sport ( not posters here ) think this is so.

The media and fans are so limited in there vision.
NH is performing now in a car that is showing promice and suddenly people begin the think he is a potential champ. He always was given the right car.
DC had his chance in a top car but came head to head with MH
He was however, not dominated by MH like RB was dominated by MS.

RBR have indicated that they dont consider DC or MW as champion winning drivers. So i am guessing they want FA as he is the only champion out there. Good luck with that.
If they look down from there they find KR
After those 2 where does RBR look.

GF....cough cough i hope not
NH...good solid driver hardly one i would claim is better than DC and the NH/MW debate raged for ages telling us that in the fans vews it was more a draw than the numbers tell us.
JB...dont make me laugh
LH...if time shows him to be all that he would appear to be then McLaren will be his home for some time

MW DC one of the best driver line ups RBR could have atm and should they make a race winning car they would be hard pressed to find a better line up

#18 Ricardo F1

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 14:51

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Why? because he's one of the fastest British drivers ever and with if Mika wasn't his team mate in those Merc years, he would have been double world champion by now.

I doubt that ; regardless of anything in 98 which is quite possible in 1999 DC drove probably the worst he ever had in F1 - he had a lousy year. Reliability was an absolute bane on his life that year too, but when the car was there he mentally often wasn't. And that's speaking as a DC fan.

I happen to think Webber and DC for next year makes perfect sense.

#19 robnyc

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 14:58

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Redbull would be fools to let DC go..


Are you serious.? He's a #2 and they don't rate Webber a top driver so what makes you think they would keep him next year if they have a winning car.? What they are really looking for and investing their time in is to bring a new Hamilton to the spotlight who ever that might be.

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#20 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 14:59

DC is surely the greatest ever British driver, the only one better him would be Irvine

#21 robnyc

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 15:01

Originally posted by Hacklerf
DC is surely the greatest ever British driver, the only one better him would be Irvine


and Juan Montoya is the greatest Colombian driver ever and your point is?

#22 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 15:03

Originally posted by robnyc


and Juan Montoya is the greatest Colombian driver ever and your point is?


I feel Roberto Guerrero was the greatest Colombian driver ever

#23 Rosemayer

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 15:12

This one shows it the best.



#24 Mauseri

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 15:17

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Why? because he's one of the fastest British drivers ever

:drunk:

and with if Mika wasn't his team mate in those Merc years,

his teammate would have been Schumacher or another fast driver.

he would have been double world champion by now.

Possible but quite unlikely.

#25 robnyc

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 15:19

Originally posted by Hacklerf


I feel Roberto Guerrero was the greatest Colombian driver ever


No he wasn't. Even though Roberto came very close several times to winning the Indy 500 back in the days several times in his career, Montoya won it in his first attempt. And in F1, well he raced for one of the worse teams and the best result he could manage was a 10 or 9 or something like that.
Montoya won in F1 and won in Cup cars already and the Daytona 24 hours. Roberto was good but not that good.

#26 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 15:25

Cat amongst the pigeons :rotfl:

#27 Ricardo F1

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 15:49

Originally posted by Rosemayer
This one shows it the best.

Murray said it best. :)

Meanwhile better days of DC



Stonking pass on Barrichello . . . and Irvine better than DC? Purlease . . . :lol:

#28 robnyc

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 16:09

how about here DC showing his skills in the rain .. :lol: :lol:

http://media.putfile...DC-in-Brazil-03

oops.

#29 Peri_Piket

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 17:15

Originally posted by robnyc
Montoya won in F1 and won in Cup cars already and the Daytona 24 hours. Roberto was good but not that good.

Come on, if you compare the goofs...

Roberto Guerreiro spun when he was on pole position at Indy and took off Piquet P1 when he was about to lapped at Hokkenheinring.

Montoya spun when he was in P2 in Australia, crashed a benchmark in Spa, spun at Hungary final laps, spun in the formation lap of Australia, spun when he in the last corner of Hokkenhein about to make the pole, brake tested Vestapen in Interlagos, took down MS in the Monaco tunnel, crashed Rubens at Indy fighting to the championship, throw Nico in the wall at Canada, crashed Kimi at the first lap of Indy, did this, did that, etc.

It's really a close call. :wave:

#30 race addicted

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 17:21

Originally posted by robnyc
how about here DC showing his skills in the rain .. :lol: :lol:

http://media.putfile...DC-in-Brazil-03

oops.


That's about the worst example you could provide. Brazil 2003 was a race DC had effectively got in the bag if it hadn't been red-flagged.

But about his wet-wheather performance; Brazil '01 and Germany '00 (qualifying) are better examples. :)

....Yes, Red Bull would be fools if they let DC go. I think they'll end up retaining both drivers for next year.

#31 giacomo

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 17:26

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Why? because he's one of the fastest British drivers ever and with if Mika wasn't his team mate in those Merc years, he would have been double world champion by now.

If Hakkinen wouldn't have been at McLaren in 1998/99, Coulthard would have been number two behind Hakkinen's alternative because of his lack of speed.

Did he ever beat a teammate in the overall qualy duel? Maybe Liuzzi in 05...

#32 race addicted

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 17:34

Originally posted by giacomo

Did he ever beat a teammate in the overall qualy duel? Maybe Liuzzi in 05...


Oh, you're probably a bit new to F1.
In '95, he was on average faster than Hill in qualifying, and he obviously was faster than Klien as well, even if he isn't seen as a "wow"-driver.

During their six seasons together, Häkkinen enjoyed a speed-advantage on DC in qualifying by 0.160 seconds on average.

...I always find it funny when people use the example of "a team-mate" as something set, or something constant. You always have to factor in which that certain team-mate is.

#33 giacomo

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:00

Concerning the 1995 season...

Quali duel: 9:8 in Hills favour
Damon Hill 7 poles - David Coulthard 5 poles
Damon Hill average grid position 2.471 - David Coulthard average grid position 2.647
Damon Hill average gap to pole 0.529% - David Coulthard average gap to pole 0.533%


Waiting for your next attempt to deliver corrupt stats. :wave:

#34 race addicted

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:02

:wave:

'95 - DC faster on average by, if memory serves, 0.06 seconds.

Perhaps the numbers I have written down is taken from a format where the best and worst results are excluded, as they don't match yours regarding average gap to pole.

#35 robnyc

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:09

For the 48th time. DC is a good #2 driver nothing more nothing less. Is this what RedBull really want?
that is the question. ..

#36 Lifew12

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:10

Originally posted by robnyc


Are you serious.? He's a #2


Give over - the only guy whose ever been number two to Webber is Alex Yoong. That, really, says it all.

#37 race addicted

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:12

There's no unified definition of what a "#2 driver" is.

For every team, it's about securing the best drivers available to them. Red Bull has got a seriously formidable pairing this year, and unless they can get Alonso or Räikkönen, who else is it really worth swapping for?

#38 giacomo

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:20

Massa. Heidfeld. Hamilton.

Hell, even some ex-drivers like Schumacher, Montoya or Villeneuve would be worth a swap.

#39 robnyc

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:21

Originally posted by race addicted
There's no unified definition of what a "#2 driver" is.

For every team, it's about securing the best drivers available to them. Red Bull has got a seriously formidable pairing this year, and unless they can get Alonso or Räikkönen, who else is it really worth swapping for?


I disagree but I respect your opinion.

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#40 Ricardo F1

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 18:57

Originally posted by giacomo
Massa. Heidfeld. Hamilton.

Hell, even some ex-drivers like Schumacher, Montoya or Villeneuve would be worth a swap.

First three might be a bit busy, second two - retired, :lol: and :rotfl:

#41 Ceejay

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 19:19

For the 48th time. DC is a good #2 driver nothing more nothing less.


Well Webber is hardly a good No.1, so where does that leave him ? Perhaps they are both No. 2's

#42 Porsche996

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 19:25

Originally posted by giacomo
Massa. Heidfeld. Hamilton.

Hell, even some ex-drivers like Schumacher, Montoya or Villeneuve would be worth a swap.


Definitely. If you look at last season, Klien had by far the lions share of unreliability. Coulthard managed a podium by Klien's engine giving out, Klien being ahead despite the fact that he started from behind.

Coulthard is the most succesful, (lucky), journeyman in the history of F1. Montiero would have achieved more if he drove for the teams that DC has lucked his way into.

#43 robnyc

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 19:33

Originally posted by Ceejay

Well Webber is hardly a good No.1, so where does that leave him ? Perhaps they are both No. 2's


exactly, that is why I said that I disagree with the previous comment that he and Webber were one of the best pairings in F1.

#44 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 01:04

DC should stay until he wants to retire or until RBR wants him to retire :up:

I don't think anybody thinks that DC is not very valuable to RBR team. :)

#45 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 01:08

Originally posted by Ceejay

Well Webber is hardly a good No.1, so where does that leave him ? Perhaps they are both No. 2's


Webber is a decent No 1 driver. :)

Let's see a car that is fast and has good handling, then see if troubles still remain... they ought to for the most part evaporate in conjunction with racing a car that is fast and easy to drive.;)

Recall Ferrari and McLaren drivers running off track despite having best two cars on grid. :eek:

#46 Ceejay

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 06:31

Webber is a decent No 1 driver.


A good No 1 driver will get out of the car what is necessary to achieve the best results possible. To fail to do this over a period of two years with a team like WilliamsF1 is damning of Webber’s No 1 status.

Webber: Williams move a 'costly mistake'

By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, October 18th 2006, 16:17 GMT


Webber: Williams move a 'costly mistake'

By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, October 18th 2006, 16:17 GMT

Mark Webber believes he made a 'costly mistake' in signing for Williams - and says he will leave the team after this weekend's race in Brazil with no good memories of his time there.

The Australian had high hopes of scoring his maiden Formula One victory when he made the move from Jaguar Racing at the start of 2005, but his two years at the team delivered just one podium finish at Monaco last year.

After deciding to end his stint and join Red Bull Racing, Webber has now admitted that he was wrong to have ignored manager Flavio Briatore's advice not to sign for Williams.



#47 Carsten

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:10

Originally posted by Ceejay

A good No 1 driver will get out of the car what is necessary to achieve the best results possible. To fail to do this over a period of two years with a team like WilliamsF1 is damning of Webber’s No 1 status.


You have not demonstrated that Webber did not get the best results possible out of the Williams. Choosing Williams over.... Renault (if that was ever really a choice) is another matter.

#48 Ceejay

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:23

You have not demonstrated that Webber did not get the best results possible out of the Williams.


Webber’s own comments that “he made a costly mistake” is all the evidence you need.

#49 Carsten

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:41

Originally posted by Ceejay

Webber’s own comments that “he made a costly mistake” is all the evidence you need.


It's evidence that he made a mistake going to Williams - nothing about his lead driver abilities.

Michael Schumacher made a costly mistake in 1997. In a race even - more directly related to driving judgement. He was still arguably a good lead driver.

#50 jb_128

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:46

There's no reason to keep old, averagely talented drivers when young talent is pouring in all over the place. Why would you want to keep them out?