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#101 Option1

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 13:39

A great life ..lived well and long..

RIP Roy..
Some of the best moments of all..

Indeed. RIP Roy.

Neil

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#102 David M. Kane

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 16:25

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I apologize for the sloppy cut and paste job! :mad:


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Ron Dennis pays tribute to Salvadori

05/06/2012

McLaren boss Ron Dennis has paid tribute to former F1 and Sports Car driver Roy Salvadori who died at the weekend.

The Essex-born driver participated in 47 Grands Prix between 1952 and 1962, driving for Connaught, Aston Martin, Cooper and a host of private entrants, driving cars such as the Ferrari D500, Maserati 250F, Cooper T45 and Lola 4.

Over the course of his F1 career he scored two podium finishes, the 1952 British and German Grands Prix, both as a works driver with Cooper.

It was at Cooper that Dennis first met Salvadori, the Woking born youngster joining the legendary British team as a mechanic in 1966 aged 18. With Salvadori as team manager, Dennis worked on the car of Jochen Rindt, destined to become the sport's first posthumous world champion just four years later.

"I'm very saddened to hear of the death of Roy Salvadori, who, although he never won a Grand Prix, was in my view one of the finest racing drivers of the 1950s," said Dennis. "His superb victory at Le Mans in 1959 was proof of that.

"I worked with him myself in the mid-1960s, as a young technician at Coopers, where he was team manager for a while," added the Englishman. "I learned a lot from Roy and, more than 40 years later, would like to pay tribute to him, and to send my condolences to his wife Sue, his relations, and his many friends."

While somewhat outshone by the likes of contemporaries such as Moss, Hawthorn, Collins and Brooks, Salvadori was still widely regarded, and it is only right that his name went into the record books courtesy of his victory at Le Mans in 1959 with Carroll Shelby who died last month.

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Edited by David M. Kane, 05 June 2012 - 16:27.


#103 Tim Murray

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 17:23

Over the course of his F1 career he scored two podium finishes, the 1952 British and German Grands Prix, both as a works driver with Cooper.

Well I never. :well:

RIP Roy.

#104 David McKinney

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 17:39

Someone's typo - 1958 would be closer

#105 Giraffe

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 17:47

Someone's typo - 1958 would be closer

Indeed, third place at Silverstone and a distant but creditable second at the Nurburgring to Brooks.

Edited by Giraffe, 05 June 2012 - 17:49.


#106 delboy59

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 20:38

Absolutely gutted to read this. I had the pleasure of being Roy and Jack Brabham's driver for the weekend at the Gold Cup at Oulton Park in 2004 or 5...the stories they both regaled me will have to be kept to myself but I never had such a great time before or since at a motor racing event.

When I stopped at Druids to ask Roy which was the tree he almost climbed in his race car in 1954, he smiled and told me, very politely and smilingly, to get an effin move on...see the pic at ["http://img855.images...salvadori.jpg"]

God bless you Roy and condolences to all of the family...a true motorsport gent on and off the track!

D ):

Edited by delboy59, 05 June 2012 - 20:50.


#107 delboy59

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 20:54

Here's another one of THE MAN


http://img19.imagesh...vadorilodge.jpg

#108 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 22:25

Sad indeed to hear the news of Roy's death, but I believe this was in many ways a happy release. Most sincere condolences to Sue and to all his friends, associates and admirers. He was a charming man, whose interior core of spring steel was always somehow evident. As a driver he could prove himself king of the aerodrome circuits one day, yet someone who just didn't want to know on high-cambered classical public road courses the next. Paradoxically he also shone on occasion at the Nurburgring...and could prove near unbeatable in the close confines of Crystal Palace. But above all I feel that Roy Salvadori's greatest legacy to us was his emphatic and effective recommendation to Rob Walker that an uprated Cooper-Climax single-seater "would be absolutely ideal around Monte Carlo...". That was the spark which fired the tinder which blazed into glory as Formula 1's rear-engined revolution.

Such personalities leave such large footprints they are never really lost to succeeding generations...

DCN

#109 RobertE

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 13:22

He really was a nice man; I had heard, a little while ago, of the distressing state in which he found himself and agree with Doug - for a man such as he, the condition of dementia must have been unimaginably awful.

An anecdote:

When I was interviewing a few of the St. John's nurses who attended Stirling at his last crash, one of them (I suspect speaking for all) said:

"Well, of course, it was awful for us, looking back, as the one we all wanted to get our hands on wasn't Moss at all - it was Roy Salvadori..."

And my late mother, star-struck when she met him (and embarrassingly kittenish, I'm afraid) opined:

"If I didn't already know who he was and what he did, I'd have spotted him as a 1950s racing driver immediately. They all "had" something..."

RIP and condolences to the lovely Sue.

#110 kayemod

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 14:38

And my late mother, star-struck when she met him (and embarrassingly kittenish, I'm afraid) opined:

"If I didn't already know who he was and what he did, I'd have spotted him as a 1950s racing driver immediately. They all "had" something..."

RIP and condolences to the lovely Sue.


Denis Jenkinson always claimed that he could pick racing drivers he'd never met out from a group. He said that they just walked and carried themselves differently.


#111 Roger Clark

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 15:41

none of the obituaries that I have seen have mentioned Salvadori's great victory in the 1963 Coppa Inter-Europa. His last race for Aston Martin and a defeat for the GTOs in their own back yard. Nobody would suggest that didn't matter to Ferrari.

#112 ExFlagMan

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 17:07

My main boyhood hero - probably because the name sounded just right for a racing driver :)
Never got see him drive, but did meet him many years ago at Donington. It was at the time that the chicane flag point was on the wall in front of 'Uncle Tom's Cabin'. During one of the races, I think is was for something like post-war historic single seaters, we became aware of a very dapper looking gent, suit, tie etc, standing behind the fence behind us - didn't take much notice except to note that he seemed to be enjoying the action.
During the break between races he started chatting to us and he noticed that I had an Oulton Park badge on my overalls - he commented that he really liked driving that circuit - apart from the time he ended up in the lake. It was only then that the penny dropped!
RIP



#113 david venables

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 17:50

In the early 1960s, I was a member of a crowd of drivers, race marshals and enthusiasts who met every Friday evening at the “Black Horse” a pub at the foot of Kingston Hill. Sometimes were were joined by Phil Brooks who was a director of Coopers Phil was strictly a non-executive director but he took a close interest in all the happenings at the Surbiton works. One evening he startled us by saying that if Roy Salvadori had stayed with Cooper for the 1959 season, he would have been World Champion. We queried this, but Phil said John Cooper reckoned that Salvadori was then a faster driver then Brabham and hence the opinion.
It is an interesting “might have been” point. I put it to Jenks a few years later and he was scornful dismissing Salvadori as “just a fast airfield racer”. I felt this was a bit unfair but I don’t think Jenks liked Salvadori. Incidentally we were chucked out of the “Black Horse” eventually as the landlord said we were too rowdy.
On Salvadori’s airfield racing feats, I watched the 1956 British GP. In mid-race Salvadori was running in second place in the Gilbey 250F, behind Moss and ahead of Fangio. I timed him and he was pulling away from Fangio and gaining on Moss. Just when it began to look interesting, a fuel tank securing strap broke away on the Gilbey car and he had to retire. I feel he was always under-rated. It is sad he has gone.


#114 RCH

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 18:30

none of the obituaries that I have seen have mentioned Salvadori's great victory in the 1963 Coppa Inter-Europa. His last race for Aston Martin and a defeat for the GTOs in their own back yard. Nobody would suggest that didn't matter to Ferrari.


Indeed, I suspect that was the reason for the Italians being lukewarm about organising the race in '64, fearful of the wrath of Enzo! This, of course, gave rise to the myth that Ferrari got the race cancelled at the last minute.

It must have been a puzzling result for some Italians. Salvadori (must be Italian surely?) driving an... Aston Martin! Parkes (must be British surely) what's he doing in a Ferrari? Bianchi (must be Italian surely?) driving an Aston Martin. Then Piper in a Ferrari? Turning all their certainties upside down!

RIP Roy, one of the unsung greats.


#115 Geoff E

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 19:41

His mother's maiden name was FERRARI! :)

#116 Graham Gauld

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 19:53

none of the obituaries that I have seen have mentioned Salvadori's great victory in the 1963 Coppa Inter-Europa. His last race for Aston Martin and a defeat for the GTOs in their own back yard. Nobody would suggest that didn't matter to Ferrari.


Interesting you should mention that event. It was quite stunning. THe commentator just about swallowed his microphone. He was shouting about about Salvadori," Parkess and Peeper" ( Parkes and Piper) and when Roy in the Aston overtook Parkes' GTO the crowd couldn't believe it. It was a great moment and, come to think about it, I actually tape recorded the Italian commentator going apoplectic.If i can find it and download it I will attach it for your amusement. One of my great memories.

#117 Doug Nye

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 20:46

none of the obituaries that I have seen have mentioned Salvadori's great victory in the 1963 Coppa Inter-Europa. His last race for Aston Martin and a defeat for the GTOs in their own back yard. Nobody would suggest that didn't matter to Ferrari.


Perhaps 3.7-litre 6-cylinder Aston Project car versus 3-litre V12 Ferrari 250GTO was a slight mismatch around Monza, but even so Roy drove superbly that day to see off Michael Parkes and all the private GTOs. The fact they finished 1-2 a full three laps clear of the third-placed DP214 speaks volumes for the frantic pace they set during their battle. It raged for 101 laps during the three-hour race. Imagine the physical and mental effort that performance entailed in those cars...

Not too shabby for an old man in the twilight of his career. Respect, indeed.

DCN

#118 D-Type

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 22:00

I remember Jenks wrote a lighthearted retrospective piece about the Coppa Inter-Europa but can't remember the detail.

Coming back to Roy: I was checking his record in Championship races and see that he drove for five works teams: Connaught, BRM (dnq), Vanwall, Cooper and Aston Martin plus the Bowmaker Lolas which were effectively a factory team. Adding in private Ferrari and Maserati makes it 7 different makes he raced.

#119 bradbury west

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 22:14

Perhaps 3.7-litre 6-cylinder Aston Project car versus 3-litre V12 Ferrari 250GTO was a slight mismatch around Monza, but even so Roy drove superbly that day to see off Michael Parkes and all the private GTOs. The fact they finished 1-2 a full three laps clear of the third-placed DP214 speaks volumes for the frantic pace they set during their battle. It raged for 101 laps during the three-hour race. Imagine the physical and mental effort that performance entailed in those cars...

Not too shabby for an old man in the twilight of his career. Respect, indeed.

DCN


I could not agree more about the efforts of those two of my heroes that day. Possibly a case of two top drivers at the top of their game because of each other. Perhaps the seemingly potential disparity in perfomance might not have been quite so wide. I have not checked the books but the GTO was always reckoned to weigh in around 1000kilos, much lighter than the ltwt Es, and to enjoy a reliable 300bhp, and whilst I have not checked in the articles on the Project cars or the track test books, but the Autocar reckoned the DB4 Zagato was 24.6cwt fully fuelled, so the DP cars would presumably be a bit lighter, and the BHP figure was always quoted as 314bhp for the 3.7ltr unit.
Perhaps the Aston's aerodynamics were just better, perhaps Michael had a 4 litre engine like at Reims.........lots of "perhapses", still a storming drive by those two racers.
Don't forget Ireland's performance vs the Ferraris in the TT practice in an Aston before he was obliged to run on those narrower rims.
Roger Lund


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#120 pete53

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:55

I remember Jenks wrote a lighthearted retrospective piece about the Coppa Inter-Europa but can't remember the detail.

"While at Monza for the Italian Grand Prix I had a large helping of "humble pie" for lunch, and I was happy to eat it, for I had just seen Salvadori driving an Aston Martin DB4GT dust-up Parkes in a GTO Ferrari"
Jenks Motor Sport October 1963

#121 Macca

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:09

RIP Roy "Smoothadori" - he was my Mum's pin-up too......

If the Aston had more power (debatable with AM's horses) or less drag than the GTO at Monza, Roy still couldn't break the tow, and the Ferrari had 5 gears to his 4, so could always out-drag him from the Parabolica to the line; he managed to put a backmarker between them with a couple of laps to go.

Paul M

#122 Paul Parker

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:20

I could not agree more about the efforts of those two of my heroes that day. Possibly a case of two top drivers at the top of their game because of each other. Perhaps the seemingly potential disparity in perfomance might not have been quite so wide. I have not checked the books but the GTO was always reckoned to weigh in around 1000kilos, much lighter than the ltwt Es, and to enjoy a reliable 300bhp, and whilst I have not checked in the articles on the Project cars or the track test books, but the Autocar reckoned the DB4 Zagato was 24.6cwt fully fuelled, so the DP cars would presumably be a bit lighter, and the BHP figure was always quoted as 314bhp for the 3.7ltr unit.
Perhaps the Aston's aerodynamics were just better, perhaps Michael had a 4 litre engine like at Reims.........lots of "perhapses", still a storming drive by those two racers.
Don't forget Ireland's performance vs the Ferraris in the TT practice in an Aston before he was obliged to run on those narrower rims.
Roger Lund


It is frustrating to recall how the Project 214s were just too late and too unreliable because they were quicker than any of the other GT racers during 1963 and still competitive in private hands in 1964.

Had they been fully developed and driven by 'works' drivers in 1964 they could in my opinion have successfully challenged the Daytona Cobras and at Le Mans 1964 Mike Salmon posted a 3m 58.6 sec lap during practice only 2.5 seconds slower than Gurney in the Daytona. The 4 litre 215 was also fast enough to have won at Le Mans in 1963 but the cars were too mechanically fragile for a variety of reasons in either form to survive a long race. Aston's wholly inadequate finances did not help either.

However the 214s were really prototypes rather than GTs being entirely different to the DB4GT and Zagatos (other than sharing the wet sump motor if I recall correctly) which were true road cars with a very heavy platform chassis, hence their ridiculous weight despite having an all alloy motor and coachwork. The 214/215 had very light box section girder frames and John Wyer stated in Chris Nixon's Racing with the David Brown Aston Martins Volume One that "Because the Project 214 cars were to run in the production class the new chassis was strictly illegal but we did not think anyone would look too hard and so it proved."

It is sometimes forgotten that two weeks after Salvadori's Monza triumph Claude Le Guezec (194R) and Dewez (Franc) in 195R finished 1/2 in an admittedly lesser race at Montlhery.


#123 RCH

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:25

I suspect that the Aston was the faster car but the Ferrari the easier to drive, I think Mike Salmon has said that the GTO was the best car to drive that he knew and he was familiar with both. The Aston Martin had shown itself capable of beating the Ferrari at Le Mans that year but for a sad tendency to put rods out through the side.

Can't help thinking that if the works hadn't given up on the Project cars after '63 they could have thrashed everything in GT in '64 and '65 including those Daytona "Coops". Maybe they were afraid of the 250LM being homologated or perhaps recognised, as Ferrari did, that GT cars were just a sideline and they couldn't afford a prototype.

#124 Suzy

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:23

I am sure I will be considered late to the party but I haven't had a chance to get to the forums for a while. I was very sad to hear about the death of Roy Salvadori. I only saw him at Classic/Historic events but I did get to meet him at a charity dinner a few years ago. He was so friendly and polite. There was no (outward at least) sign of the dementia at that time and I am so sorry that such a horrible illness affected him in later years.

I do remember that, after the dinner in question, I spent quite a bit of time reading about his career and regretting that I was too young to have seen him "in action".

My genuine condolences to his family.

#125 Allan Lupton

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:43

Torygraph obit here

#126 cdrewett

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:42

Torygraph obit here


I enjoyed two long and detailed interviews with Roy for Goodwood Radio. He was friendly, and didn't have a bad word for anyone. He told a lovely story about John Wyer ordering him to do a long DB3S test in the pouring rain at Buenos Aires. When he finally got back to the hotel soaking wet and exhausted, he found Wyer and Peter Collins propping up the bar. Roy made a remark about it being all very well for some, so John Wyer said, "don't you understand Roy, you're the expendable member of the Aston Martin team ! "
Lovely bloke, they don't make them like that any more.
Chris

#127 bradbury west

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:48

It is sometimes forgotten that two weeks after Salvadori's Monza triumph Claude Le Guezec (194R) and Dewez (Franc) in 195R finished 1/2 in an admittedly lesser race at Montlhery.


For those with a copy of Racing in the Rain, John Horsman covers the Monza race in some detail, with quotes also from Pritchard's Salvo biog, Racing Driver. There was a lot more to it than perhaps we think, which is all the more tribute to Salvadori.

Horsman also comments on the Montlhery event, little more than a club event, and they won because, to paraphrase, " a Lotus had the good grace to retire when leading". It had fuel troubles IIRC from the French race report - I have an interest in that race.

Octane did a Paul Chudecki piece in Nov 2010 about the DP cars, quoting period bhp as 330 in period, 377 now..., 214 310/314 in period, 302 now, and 326 in period for the 4ltr 215 , but 371 now. Weights are cited in DP numerical order as 975kgs dry, 962kgs wet and 907kgs unqualified.

Monza still represents a super tribute to Salvadori's driving skills and he is full of praise for Michael Parkes as an adversary.
Roger Lund

#128 cpbell

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:59

So was Roy in the DP214 at Monza or a DB4GT as per the Jenks quote?

#129 David Wright

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:20

So was Roy in the DP214 at Monza or a DB4GT as per the Jenks quote?


He was in the DP214 which in terms of homologation was nominally a DB4GT.

In terms of weight, the DP214s weighed around 1100kg at Le Mans with full tanks, the GTOs about 25 kg lighter.

Edited by David Wright, 08 June 2012 - 12:22.


#130 Paul Parker

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:20

So was Roy in the DP214 at Monza or a DB4GT as per the Jenks quote?


He was driving DP214 194/R as per my earlier post.

#131 D-Type

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:51

"While at Monza for the Italian Grand Prix I had a large helping of "humble pie" for lunch, and I was happy to eat it, for I had just seen Salvadori driving an Aston Martin DB4GT dust-up Parkes in a GTO Ferrari"
Jenks Motor Sport October 1963

Thanks for that. The one I'm thinking of was a lighthearted lookback written some years later on the lines of "I remember ... a race for locals in their Ferrari GT's running flat out (might even have said 'Harry flatters') ... then one year Salvadori put the cat among the pigeons by winning in an Aston Martin".

#132 David Wright

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 14:50

Thanks for that. The one I'm thinking of was a lighthearted lookback written some years later on the lines of "I remember ... a race for locals in their Ferrari GT's running flat out (might even have said 'Harry flatters') ... then one year Salvadori put the cat among the pigeons by winning in an Aston Martin".


The race must have made an impact on DSJ because he mentions it again in the October 1964 edition of MotorSport, in connection with the cancellation of the GT III Championship round at Monza that year.

#133 Doug Nye

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 17:38

He was driving DP214 194/R as per my earlier post.


By using the title 'DB4GT' I am sure Jenks would have been taking the ---- out of those in the know... In joke.

DCN

#134 David Beard

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 17:51

With Jack Brabham, Oulton Park Gold Cup, 2003.

Posted Image

#135 Alan Cox

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 21:32

A few of my pics of the great man taken at Coys festivals, and a couple from the historic support race at the 1977 British GP
Posted Image
Reminiscing with Michael Turner - 1998
Posted Image
With his recently-departed team-mate
Posted Image
Posted Image
1998 at the 50th anniversary of the 1948 British GP
Posted Image
1998, with 'Tuolo' de Graffenried
Posted ImagePosted Image
1977 British GP

#136 Paul Parker

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 08:25

A few of my pics of the great man taken at Coys festivals, and a couple from the historic support race at the 1977 British GP
Posted Image
Reminiscing with Michael Turner - 1998
Posted Image
With his recently-departed team-mate
Posted Image
Posted Image
1998 at the 50th anniversary of the 1948 British GP
Posted Image
1998, with 'Tuolo' de Graffenried
Posted ImagePosted Image
1977 British GP


Lovely pics Alan.

I was at the 1977 British GP and I think 'Salvo' drove one of the DBR4/250s in an historics race and was very quick but cannot remember how he got on, possibly retired.

#137 P0wderf1nger

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:39

Today's Times has an obituary.


#138 Alan Cox

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:00

Rather nice period shot of Roy, currently offered on eBay
http://www.ebay.co.u...=item1e70287f7a

#139 cpbell

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:45

By using the title 'DB4GT' I am sure Jenks would have been taking the ---- out of those in the know... In joke.

DCN



I see. Thanks to all those who clarified the question of what the car actually was.