92 replies to this topic

[Catalina Park]

Tony, I once saw a crappy book with your drawing of the Beatrice indy car, except they claimed it was an F1 car! (I said it was a crappy book!)
I just can't remember which book it was. :

[Tony Matthews]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Tony, I once saw a crappy book with your drawing of the Beatrice indy car, except they claimed it was an F1 car! (I said it was a crappy book!)
I just can't remember which book it was. :

Well, having just done the same thing myself I cant comment! I've seen the same book, but , like you, can't think what it was. Possibly a promotional book for CSS, Championship Sporting Specialists, who acted for, amongst many others, Beatrice.

The FORCE factory was very smart considering this was some time before Ron Dennis shifted 'smart' to stratospheric levels.

Just realised I'm missing Monza qualifying!

TTFN

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Well, having just done the same thing myself I cant comment! I've seen the same book, but , like you, can't think what it was. Possibly a promotional book for CSS, Championship Sporting Specialists, who acted for, amongst many others, Beatrice.

The FORCE factory was very smart considering this was some time before Ron Dennis shifted 'smart' to stratospheric levels.

Just realised I'm missing Monza qualifying!

TTFN

The book was some sort of cheap book of motor racing that came across as the "Junior Beginners guide to motor racing for under twelves" It was about the third worst motor racing book I have seen (Legends of Speed by Bill Woods comes first and Niki Lauda and the Grand Prix Gladiators by Ronnie Mutch comes in second)

I am not watching Monza qualifying but I know I am not missing anything.

[GreenMachine]

[QUOTE I am not watching Monza qualifying but I know I am not missing anything. [/QUOTE]

Actually you have ....

[Tony Matthews]

[quote]Originally posted by GreenMachine
[B][quote][/quote]

Hee hee! Quite right.

[Catalina Park]

F1 is a joke, so you should get a laugh every now and then.

[Catalina Park]

Tony, I just remembered the book, it was called Racing Cars by John Tippler.

[Tony Matthews]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
F1 is a joke, so you should get a laugh every now and then.

I get your drift. I'm not the fan I used to be, it's been a gradual numbing of the excitment, which is general, I think. During the August lay-off there was not a whisper about F1 in the tabloid and broadsheet press, and the Mosely saga really angered me. F1 does smell more now of corruption and vested interest than ever, and while that is not a shock- I was born a cynic - it just means I care less. Anyway, the best RACING ever was in the heydays of the CART series, before the split with Tony George, wish I still had all my videos of the ten years or so of fantastic action.

The fact that I was asked to do cutaways of most of the cars helped a bit, but I would have been captivated without that.

[Tony Matthews]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Tony, I just remembered the book, it was called Racing Cars by John Tippler.

I've had several dealings with John, very nice guy, and he used some artwork and a lot of photo's of mine in his Lotus books, but no doubt he was involved in a pot-boiler or two, it's all part of being a free-lance writer.

Publishers have a lot to answer for!

[aaron]

The Jones Hart engined car has been running around Australian historics for a couple of years. now. Aaron

[MODE]

Originally posted by aaron
The Jones Hart engined car has been running around Australian historics for a couple of years. now. Aaron

Yeah, I saw that on photos and the aussies have the chance to see a Benetton B186 too

[Peter Morley]

I think the Benetton might be on its way back to europe.

[MODE]

Originally posted by Peter Morley
I think the Benetton might be on its way back to europe.

are you sure, its owner had so many difficulties to restore the engine and eventually did it

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by MODE

are you sure, its owner had so many difficulties to restore the engine and eventually did it

I heard that one of the Australian turbo cars was on its way back and I think there are only 3 out there, Beatrice Lola, Benetton and a Ferrari?
But it could just be a rumour/or deliberate mis-information....

[MODE]

Originally posted by Peter Morley


I heard that one of the Australian turbo cars was on its way back and I think there are only 3 out there, Beatrice Lola, Benetton and a Ferrari?
But it could just be a rumour/or deliberate mis-information....

I ask the owner of the Benetton and I'll let you know here.

[MODE]

Ok, got the answer, this is not the B186 but this may be a B187.

[TheStranger]

Of course, the one way the Haas F1 effort ultimately connected back to his CART team with Paul Newman was...

Alan Jones stepping up as a replacement driver for Mario at Road America in 1985 and earning a podium spot in his only Champcar event.

[timbo]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
The book was some sort of cheap book of motor racing that came across as the "Junior Beginners guide to motor racing for under twelves" It was about the third worst motor racing book I have seen (Legends of Speed by Bill Woods comes first and Niki Lauda and the Grand Prix Gladiators by Ronnie Mutch comes in second)

Do you mean to say that you rate Dick Johnson's book "Don't tell me I can't do that" above those books.
Bill Woods book must really be crap.

[Catalina Park]

Bill Woods book has on average two mistakes per page. I started writing a list of mistakes but I gave up when I had filled 25 pages of notes.

Did you know that the Indy 500 was run by the SCCA?
Did you know that SCCA stands for Sprintcar Control Council of Australia?

There are some real clangers in Bills book.

[Ray Bell]

Oh really?

I can't say that I've seen it, but at one stage there was talk of me being involved in some editing. Apparently the book is only about a quarter of what it was intended to be... and every driver mentioned in it was asked to vet the script of every paragraph that mentioned him.

So what's a camel, again?

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Catalina Park


There are some real clangers in Bills book.

Is that same Bill Woods who hosted RPM on Channel 10?

Tony, sincere thanks for your work, don't know how many are yours but always a favorite of mine (cutaways) as I grew up and until this very day ;)

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Bill Woods book has on average two mistakes per page. I started writing a list of mistakes but I gave up when I had filled 25 pages of notes.

Did you know that the Indy 500 was run by the SCCA?
Did you know that SCCA stands for Sprintcar Control Council of Australia?

There are some real clangers in Bills book.

That may even outdo the recent book on the history of Penske Racing, which also was riddled with errors. Did you know that turbochargers are driven by the exhaust, while superchargers are driven by an electic motor?
Tom

[Catalina Park]

I don't know if Bill Woods book belongs here in this thread but here are some more gems from "Australia's No1 Motorsport Commentator" (it must be true, it is written on the cover )

The 1982 Australain Grand Prix was won by the Ligier Team.
Shadow became Arrows.
Bob Jane built Formula Pacific cars.
The Gold Star series was a one make series.
Larry Perkins first race car was a Formula Vee with a fiberglass chassis.
Tony Gaze won the 24 race at Mt Druitt.
Monza was rebuilt in 55 because of the Le Mans disaster.
Fangio won his second title in 1955.
The Tasman series was run under F1 rules.
Jackie Stewart was teamed with Jim Clark in the 1964 Indy 500.
Glynn Scott and Juan Tighe crashed in the Dogleg at Lakeside.
CAMS refused to let Kevin Bartlett run disc brakes on his Camaro so he had to run Drums.

And it goes on and on...

[RA Historian]

STOP!!! STOP!!! This is too much to take!

[fines]

OT, I know, but John Lucero's "Legion Ascot Speedway" easily outscores ANY other book in the errors compartment...

[cheapracer]

FWIW....

Tambay crashes the Lola in warmup

[Speedy27]

Originally posted by aaron
The Jones Hart engined car has been running around Australian historics for a couple of years. now. Aaron

Here is a link to the organizers' website of a pic that I took of the Beatrice Lola Ford at the annual Phillip Island Classic earlier this year : http://www.vhrr.com/...n/target17.html

And here are more pics from the same meeting of the other mid-80's F1 turbo cars that were also running:
- the ex-Michele Alboreto Ferrari 156/85 : http://www.vhrr.com/.../target134.html
- and the ex-Gerhard Berger Benetton B186 : http://www.vhrr.com/...n/target18.html

Then, there was also the Yardley McLaren M23 (http://www.vhrr.com/...n/target19.html), which I believe is M23/1 - the car used by Denny Hulme to win the 1973 Swedish Grand Prix from Ronnie Peterson, after Peterson's Lotus 72 faltered near the end.

[Phil Rainford]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpvagdsrO_s""][/url]

Shakedown at Boreham......

PAR

[Buford]

Yikes a thread from 1999. Now that's nostalgia.

[Paul Hamilton]

I heard that one of the Australian turbo cars was on its way back and I think there are only 3 out there, Beatrice Lola, Benetton and a Ferrari?
But it could just be a rumour/or deliberate mis-information....

There are 4 turbo F1 cars active in Australian historic racing, Peter, although only three ever appear on circuit at once as the two Ferrari F156/85s are both owned by Guido Belgiorno Nettis. Les Wright has the Benneton B186 and Ian Ross the Beatrice which ran well at Eastern Creek last weekend. Les had a major engine failure at Phillip Island earlier this year but is well on the way to having it running again. All are Sydney based and the owners have often pooled information to keep on top of the complex maintenance issues (particularly the electronics!!). I think they have done pretty well as the cars are a long way from home and I don't know of any other turbo cars running competitively with any regularity. We usually see them two or three times a year as they restrict appearances to Phillip Island and Eastern Creek which give them the best opportunity to stretch their legs.

[jjcomposites]

Tyre testing...I believe 1986 or 1987 Brands. I took a stack of pictures on the Beatrice.

I think it must have been 1986 as they dissolved at the end of that year. I'd love to see more of your photos of the Force as I worked there 1985/86 in the prototype dept and test team.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Buford
Yikes a thread from 1999. Now that's nostalgia.

It's happened before...

I remember it happening frequently in 2000.

[Gordon Graham]

Ian Ross in the Beatrice Lola on the weekend

[canon1753]

I always like the look of those cars... Classic mid 80's turbo car profile, good color and two guys I rooted for racing them.

Too bad it all went bad, really quite early in the program with Beatrice pulling out early in 86...

[Amaroo Park]

Ian Ross in the Beatrice Lola on the weekend

Is that the Hart engined car?

[hipperson]

jj..........my photos are on this site

http://www.gurneyflap.com/

Michael

[jjcomposites]

jj..........my photos are on this site

http://www.gurneyflap.com/

Michael

Thank you, great site!

[Graham Clayton]

Further info on the topic of the Beatrice Lola, in 1985 or 1986 the good old BBC, as part of its "Horizon" science and technology series, made a TV documentary on the development of the Ford V6 Turbo. Many "Horizon" programmes were re-edited and shown in the US under PBS's "Nova" series so the documentary may have been shown Stateside. As far as I am aware, no video version was ever released.

On the subject of the BBC, over the years they have made some excellent motor sport documentaries. In 1981 "Horizon" also made a programme about the impact of the banning of sliding skirts on F1 cars. It was called, "Gentlemen, Raise your Skirts"

[This message has been edited by Eric McLoughlin (edited 01-01-2000).]

These two documentaries are now available in full on YouTube:

Ford V6 Turbo



Raise Your Skirts

[ellrosso]

Few shots from Adelaide GP

[Wirra]

[nmansellfan]

These two documentaries are now available in full on YouTube:

Ford V6 Turbo



Raise Your Skirts

The documentaries about Ford's turbo V6 was actually made by Channel 4, for their series 'Equinox'. There was a third programme made in the series in '87, following up on the progress of the engine in the Benetton after they took the supply of the engine. I'ts not on Youtube yet though and I haven't seen it since it was on the first time when I was a nine year old GP fan!

Edited by nmansellfan, 08 March 2013 - 16:50.

[Marc Sproule]

Some Beatrice CART snaps.......all from '85.

http://www.flickr.co...157632616442219

http://www.flickr.co...157632616442219

http://www.flickr.co...157632616442219

http://www.flickr.co...157632616442219

Two from a pre-season test before the car had any signage......

http://www.flickr.co...157632616442219

http://www.flickr.co...57632616442219/

Eventually more will be added to my Mario set......

http://www.flickr.co...57632616442219/

[BRG]

Few shots from Adelaide GP

Is it just me, or does Jones look like he has a cushion on his seat? He is sitting way higher than Tambay. Was this an issue for him? Did he perhaps not fit in the car very well?