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Old race car: Goggomobil Dart on a Triumph chassis, information needed


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#1 normv

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 13:03

Hi all I am hoping someone here may recall this car, It is believed to be a 60s sports racing car , It is a triumph herald chassis and drive train with a modified Goggomobil Dart body fitted. I purchased it from person in Victoria Australia who had very little knowledge as it was his uncles who had passed away. He recalled it was his brought by his uncle from Geelong over 20+ years ago. It is quite distinctive and has had the rear flared guards added at a later time to the front modifications based on layers of paint. Any assistance of this vehicles history would be much appreciated.

Further photos can be found at http://users.tpg.com...AR/RACECAR.html

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#2 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 04:40

Norm: there's a picture of what must surely be your car, taken at Caversham, mid 60s, wearing No 25. It was probably put together for the Six Hour race.

Use this address, then select gallery No 30, and then go to page 3.

www.aussieroadracing.homestead.com/

According to the caption, it had a Ford engine.

#3 normv

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 12:36

Terry,
Thanks for the tip, mine does not appear to have been stretched as this one does, however I will follow this lead as it could be useful. Now I am more shocked that there could be 2 similar cars.

Thanks again.
Norm

#4 normv

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 12:01

Surely someone out there has some recolection of this car, given the wealth of knowleadge on this board

#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 12:59

Maybe you should try waving the pic under the noses of people like Brique Reed, Bryan Thomson, Terry Cornelius and Alby Middleton?

#6 normv

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 03:36

still searching for any information

For some reason the original posts which were page 1 appear to have disapeared here so this is what I am looking for

More information and Photos available here http://users.tpg.com...AR/RACECAR.html
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Information needed on the following historic car. It is a triumph Herald Chassis and running gear with a Goggomobil Dart body which has been modified to accept the front engined layout of the triumph. It is known to have been purchased from Geelong Victoria about 20 years ago before being disassembled as you see it now.
Information needed on the following historic car. It is a triumph Herald Chassis and running gear with a Goggomobil Dart body which has been modified to accept the front engined layout of the triumph. It is known to have been purchased from Geelong Victoria about 20 years ago before being disassembled as you see it now.
I am looking for any information people may have, unfortunately the previous owner has passed away and his family know very little about this car, any information you or may have would be greatly appreciated , I hope to rebuild it and race it in historic racing in Australia, however to do so I need to establish more information about it.
When we purchased it we were un aware of what it was derived from, I have since established it is a early triumph herald chassis and running gear which has had a modified goggomobil dart body placed onto it. We believe it has been a race car for several reasons (Besides the comptiton numbers on the sides) there is a catch tank glassed into the body at the front , all drain plugs have been lockwired the brake pedal is set up with dual master cylinders with bias it has had several sets of numbers and never appears to have had blinkers fitted front or rear, a smaller crankshaft pulley has been fitted and it has a hole in the rear body for a solo roll bar . Based on the layers of paint I suggest the rear flares were added at a later stage to the front modifications. The original paintwork prior to the flares appears to be a very good job there is also painted scroll lines and what appears to be a crest painted (it looks like a man on top of a rocket )on the side under the top layer(I am going to try to remove the top layer of paint which may reveal more information, the top layer of paint is a poor quality finish as are the flares. As you can see in the photos someone has cut doors into it then refiberglassed them in however this appears to have been a relative recent modification.

Edited by normv, 18 June 2011 - 11:26.


#7 RStock

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 16:01

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I hope you don't mind me using that photo, and this might not be of any help, but that looks like Airplane nose art to me. I'd use that photo and consult some veterans organization to see if anyone remembers seeing it. There are also sites on the web and elsewhere dedicated to noseart. If you can find out what plane that's from (which is a longshot) it might lead you to a name. I'm guessing an Aussie who served in the RAF, during WW2, but it could also have been later.

I'd also use that photo when asking around racing folks, because that's something folks would remember seeing. I know I have a lot of memories of art painted on racecars from when I was a kid. Tha's been well over 40 years ago, and I couldn't tell you who it was, but I could tell what track and time period.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Robby.

#8 ken devine

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 06:53

It could be a berkley a similar front.



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#9 Terry Walker

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 15:07

The Berkely didn't have a Triumph Herald chassis. There's no doubt that the back of the mystery car's body at least is definitely Goggo Dart, although the tail lights have been removed and glassed over, and one of the air intakes has been closed off, too. The front section is much lengthened, an opening bonnet added, complete with bumps and bulges, and totally altered to allow a radiator to be fitted up front, plus a section of Triumph Herald grille. Not to mention much bigger headlights. A lot of work involved there if you ask me.

I wonder what the painted letter E on the grille, below the Triumph badge, signifies?



#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 23:47

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Norm: there's a picture of what must surely be your car, taken at Caversham, mid 60s, wearing No 25. It was probably put together for the Six Hour race.

Use this address, then select gallery No 30, and then go to page 3.

www.aussieroadracing.homestead.com/

According to the caption, it had a Ford engine.


Terry... any idea how to find that pic now?

It looks like the website's been reorganised and it's essential to work from the photographer's name.

#11 DanTra2858

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 03:16

Terry... any idea how to find that pic now?

It looks like the website's been reorganised and it's essential to work from the photographer's name.


If you use the following URL you will find it .... http://aussieroadrac...donGraham2.html

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 06:29

Thanks... yes, it does look like the car...

Though some features are different. Tail lights, lumps in the bonnet etc.

#13 Gordon Graham

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:10

Here it is without the link. When I put that caption on for the Aussie Road Racing collection, I had a recollection that it was entered as the "Something? Ford". However thinking about it again now, I'm not so sure. What I remember is that it appeared semi regularly for a couple of years ( don't know about the six-hour) well down the back of the field


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#14 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:01

In the 1965 Christmas Cup, in the sports car category, was J Piper in the Chapman Cortina, No 25.

However, there were Holdens and whatnot, so it could be an actual Cortina. For the record, it came 5th in the Under 1500 class.

In 1966, No 25 was J Piper in the Pegasus Cortina. Its moment of glory was winning the 10-lap handicap for sports cars, 25 September 1966. And 11th in the 20-lap Sports Car Championship. At the Crhistmas Cup, 20 November 1966, 6th in a Dvision 1 Sports Car race. Not seen in 1967.

Now, if we know what year Gordon took the pic, we've nailed it. Possibly.






#15 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:10

Unfortunately for my theory, page 3 of Gordon's pics shows 25 Pegasus as a Clubman. It was the one built by Don Hall which became the RE Ford, and still exists.

Bob Annear ran Pegasis or Pegasus as No 24 usually, which suggests a possible six-hour for the photo showing 25 - and a different six hour for the Goggo-bodied car showing 25, so who was J Piper in 1965 and 1966?

Back again: Warren Matthews and Bob Wilkie ran Pegasus as the RE Ford in the 1968 Six Hour using No 25. What dates that photo precisely. It was usually No 35.

In late 1968, John Haynes ran a Goggomobil No 25 at the Mount Brown Hillclimb, in the Under 1100 class.

Thereby adding confusion.

Edited by Terry Walker, 16 March 2011 - 10:26.


#16 ianselva

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:31

Here it is without the link. When I put that caption on for the Aussie Road Racing collection, I had a recollection that it was entered as the "Something? Ford". However thinking about it again now, I'm not so sure. What I remember is that it appeared semi regularly for a couple of years ( don't know about the six-hour) well down the back of the field


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Surely that is the car built in South Africa called a ........Dart which had to be renamed because Daimler already had the same name . It had Ford 100E front struts cut down to take I think a transverse spring.

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:34

No, the South African GSM Dart was unrelated the the Australian Goggomobil Dart (produced by Bill Buckle of Buckle GT fame, IIRC)

#18 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:35

Re-examining Don Hall's autobiography, John Piper is the original owner, who commissioned the contruction of the Pegasus Clubman, later RE Ford. Nothing to do with the "Goggo".

Oh well.

#19 Gordon Graham

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:43

In regard to the date of my pic of the Goggo bodied car, my pics date from mid 64 to early 67 and several packets got jumbled together over many years. But I'd guess late 65 onwards.

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#20 normv

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:19

In regard to the date of my pic of the Goggo bodied car, my pics date from mid 64 to early 67 and several packets got jumbled together over many years. But I'd guess late 65 onwards.

For some reason it appear to have lost the original posts here so this is what I am looking for

More information and Photos available here http://users.tpg.com...AR/RACECAR.html

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Information needed on the following historic car. It is a triumph Herald Chassis and running gear with a Goggomobil Dart body which has been modified to accept the front engined layout of the triumph. It is known to have been purchased from Geelong Victoria about 20 years ago before being disassembled as you see it now.
Information needed on the following historic car. It is a triumph Herald Chassis and running gear with a Goggomobil Dart body which has been modified to accept the front engined layout of the triumph. It is known to have been purchased from Geelong Victoria about 20 years ago before being disassembled as you see it now.
I am looking for any information people may have, unfortunately the previous owner has passed away and his family know very little about this car, any information you or may have would be greatly appreciated , I hope to rebuild it and race it in historic racing in Australia, however to do so I need to establish more information about it.
When we purchased it we were un aware of what it was derived from, I have since established it is a early triumph herald chassis and running gear which has had a modified goggomobil dart body placed onto it. We believe it has been a race car for several reasons (Besides the comptiton numbers on the sides) there is a catch tank glassed into the body at the front , all drain plugs have been lockwired the brake pedal is set up with dual master cylinders with bias it has had several sets of numbers and never appears to have had blinkers fitted front or rear, a smaller crankshaft pulley has been fitted and it has a hole in the rear body for a solo roll bar . Based on the layers of paint I suggest the rear flares were added at a later stage to the front modifications. The original paintwork prior to the flares appears to be a very good job there is also painted scroll lines and what appears to be a crest painted (it looks like a man on top of a rocket )on the side under the top layer(I am going to try to remove the top layer of paint which may reveal more information, the top layer of paint is a poor quality finish as are the flares. As you can see in the photos someone has cut doors into it then refiberglassed them in however this appears to have been a relative recent modification.


#21 Bloggsworth

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 16:04

It could be a berkley a similar front.



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That is definitely a Berkley, it even has a B on the badge - The question is, is it a 3 or 4 wheeler?

#22 berkeleybill

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 21:12

That is definitely a Berkley, it even has a B on the badge - The question is, is it a 3 or 4 wheeler?

Its definitely a 'four wheeler',and a very early one at that ! Could be an SA 322 'Sports',(British Anzani Engine) or an SE 328 'Sports',(Excelsior Engine) ? Bill.

#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 22:14

It is a Berkley...

But it's not the car in question.

#24 Repco22

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 04:51

Unfortunately for my theory, page 3 of Gordon's pics shows 25 Pegasus as a Clubman. It was the one built by Don Hall which became the RE Ford, and still exists.

Bob Annear ran Pegasis or Pegasus as No 24 usually, which suggests a possible six-hour for the photo showing 25 - and a different six hour for the Goggo-bodied car showing 25, so who was J Piper in 1965 and 1966?

Back again: Warren Matthews and Bob Wilkie ran Pegasus as the RE Ford in the 1968 Six Hour using No 25. What dates that photo precisely. It was usually No 35.

In late 1968, John Haynes ran a Goggomobil No 25 at the Mount Brown Hillclimb, in the Under 1100 class.

Thereby adding confusion.

Hi Terry. I trust you're enjoying your time in "Blighty". Just came across your post [above]. I'm not sure what you mean with reference to the late Bob Annear's "Pegasis", as he used to spell it, but do you realise that it has zero to do with all other cars mentioned so far on this thread? Bob's self-built car was all-enveloping aluminium bodied, wire-wheeled, s/c Holden-engined and then later Peugeot powered and was a bigger car altogether than those pictured. A pity someone else chose the same name, although I only remember that aluminium-bodied clubman being called the RE Ford.
The Berkeley pictured in post 16 was raced by the late Hugh McKinlay and originally had an Excelsior motor. He later fitted a 750cc Royal Enfield which he comprehensively blew to bits on its maiden outing. None of which is any help to you, Ray! :|

#25 ken devine

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 07:04

This is the Berkley with the Royal Enfield engine at Albany hillclimb in 1960.




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#26 Repco22

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:03

In the 1965 Christmas Cup, in the sports car category, was J Piper in the Chapman Cortina, No 25.

However, there were Holdens and whatnot, so it could be an actual Cortina. For the record, it came 5th in the Under 1500 class.

In 1966, No 25 was J Piper in the Pegasus Cortina. Its moment of glory was winning the 10-lap handicap for sports cars, 25 September 1966. And 11th in the 20-lap Sports Car Championship. At the Crhistmas Cup, 20 November 1966, 6th in a Dvision 1 Sports Car race. Not seen in 1967.

Now, if we know what year Gordon took the pic, we've nailed it. Possibly.

Terry, here's some info from Don Hall which should sort out some of the confusion re the above; John Piper approached Don Hall to have a clubman built. Some finance was provided by a Mr Chapman, possibly a builder and possibly a partner of Piper. The clubman body was built by Peter Lyons. The car was originally called the Chapman Cortina and raced as such, by Piper, in March, '66 as number 25. By September '66 it had been renamed "Pegasus", for Piper's "Pegasus Engineering". As you rightly state, later, under Bob Wilkie's ownership it was called the RE Ford, for his firm, Realty Enterprises. I don't believe the stretched Goggo, #25, has anything to do with it and as mentioned before, Bob Annear had nothing to do with either.

#27 ken devine

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:45

The Bob Annear Pegusus. I beleive Warren Mathews still owns the RE Ford.




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#28 normv

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 13:08

Terry, here's some info from Don Hall which should sort out some of the confusion re the above; John Piper approached Don Hall to have a clubman built. Some finance was provided by a Mr Chapman, possibly a builder and possibly a partner of Piper. The clubman body was built by Peter Lyons. The car was originally called the Chapman Cortina and raced as such, by Piper, in March, '66 as number 25. By September '66 it had been renamed "Pegasus", for Piper's "Pegasus Engineering". As you rightly state, later, under Bob Wilkie's ownership it was called the RE Ford, for his firm, Realty Enterprises. I don't believe the stretched Goggo, #25, has anything to do with it and as mentioned before, Bob Annear had nothing to do with either.

Still looking for any information

#29 normv

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 10:29

Still looking for any information

bump

#30 normv

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:57

bump



#31 W154

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:47

Norm, for what it's worth...
Back in the 60's I went to Gordon Institute of Technology in Geelong.One of the blokes doing mechanical engineering was a chap called John Payne from Portarlington, 20 km from Geelong. JP was pretty handy with his hands and built a road going Lotus 7 "replica" from scratch and had it registered on the road all for $100 including rego. I helped him put it together in the final stages. That was 67-68 I think .His road transport in those days was a very dark green Goggo Dart. He used that until some of us hijacked his Dart one day, carried it into the lift and left it on the 3rd floor of the new economics building as an end of year prank. JP was not amused Over summer the Dart disappeared to be replaced by a Triumph Herald. He rarely travelled alone, as a passenger was needed to help push start or help fix the thing when it broke down, believe me I know. Mechanically it was a dog. He didn't complete his course, and went off to work at Aeronautical Research Laboratories in Melbourne.
I know it is all circumstantial but right time, right area and the combination of very clever, hands on, mechanical engineer plus Goggo Dart plus Triumph Herald only good for chassis /suspension running gear equals ? It's the kind of thing JP could cobble together and make it work. If there are any dark green paint layers on the body, it could all make sense.....

#32 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:37

Stan or son of Stan - yes or no?


#33 normv

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:58

Norm, for what it's worth...
Back in the 60's I went to Gordon Institute of Technology in Geelong.One of the blokes doing mechanical engineering was a chap called John Payne from Portarlington, 20 km from Geelong. JP was pretty handy with his hands and built a road going Lotus 7 "replica" from scratch and had it registered on the road all for $100 including rego. I helped him put it together in the final stages. That was 67-68 I think .His road transport in those days was a very dark green Goggo Dart. He used that until some of us hijacked his Dart one day, carried it into the lift and left it on the 3rd floor of the new economics building as an end of year prank. JP was not amused Over summer the Dart disappeared to be replaced by a Triumph Herald. He rarely travelled alone, as a passenger was needed to help push start or help fix the thing when it broke down, believe me I know. Mechanically it was a dog. He didn't complete his course, and went off to work at Aeronautical Research Laboratories in Melbourne.
I know it is all circumstantial but right time, right area and the combination of very clever, hands on, mechanical engineer plus Goggo Dart plus Triumph Herald only good for chassis /suspension running gear equals ? It's the kind of thing JP could cobble together and make it work. If there are any dark green paint layers on the body, it could all make sense.....

Thanks had a look for any evidence of green paint, however it only ever appears to have been blue