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Personal photos from museums


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#51 Mark A

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 16:15

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Ah, but which Talbot Lotus Sunbeam is it? A few years ago we had a motor club visit to the Midlands. In the morning we visited the David Sutton Collection in Daventry, where we found Henri Toivonen's 1980 RAC Rally-winning car:

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In the afternoon we went to the Coventry Museum of British Road Transport, where (like Mark A) we found - errm - Henri Toivonen's 1980 RAC Rally-winning car:

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I'd never noticed that before, I've also got a pic from David Suttons collection of that car. Wonder which is the real one?

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#52 bradbury west

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 17:52

Testing to see if I can make it work, per Ray's notes

1927 Citroen A type Course, 1600 cc, Sanxet museum, south of Bergerac.

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Roger Lund

#53 Tim Murray

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 18:08

Originally posted by Mark A
Wonder which is the real one?

We made enquiries at the time and were told that the Sutton car was the genuine item, but I can't now remember where that info came from or how reliable it might be.

#54 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 19:04

Originally posted by petefenelon


It's a very special place, with a lovely laid-back atmosphere. You can get very close to the cars and really look closely at them. I was there on a nice quiet morning and there were only a few other punters in. There's a very magical feel to some of the cars and it's very hard not to feel humbled by some of the - the wreckage of David Purley's LEC just to give an idea of the violence of the accident he survived, and the Roger Williamson display just to emphasise how much the sport (and Tom Wheatcroft in particular) lost with his passing.

There are a few oddities there - the Iso-Marlboro nosecone in amongst the Marlboro BRMs, for a start! - but it's a splendid museum and I think anyone with a love of racing should try to get there.

I understand that Tom himself can often be found in there (I think Doc Knutsen found him in the café one day!)

Not wishing to pour cold water, but ...

I was at Donington earlier this week and, while I agree with Pete that it's laid-back, I found it a bit too sepulchral. Even understated in some ways. For instance, I came across the collection of Graham Hill trophies and memorabilia purely by chance (it's in a low-level cabinet under a window) and only spotted a similar display of Roger Williamson items on the way out.

The wall displays looked tired and it's obvious that successive rearrangements have "stranded" some of them - notably what appeared to be a list of Nuvolari's wins - out of easy view.

Lots of pictures weren't captioned, notably several frames of 1930s prints from The Motor and other contemporary sources. I recognised most of them, but it would have been nice to know them all! I also spotted several errors in the car descriptions - I think it was the BRM P160 text which suddenly meandered off into discussion of the V16 .... :confused:

The signed "visitors boards" looked as though many of the signatures had faded beyond redemption, although strangely the "Pre-War Heroes" one seemed to be in the best condition. That's an historic document in itself, with the signatures of the whole 1937 Austin works team, Toulo de Graffenried, Johnny Lurani, Hermann Lang, Tony Rolt, John Dugdale and (this one took me a long time to figure out!) John Bolster.

Finally, I have to say I found the massed ranks of Williamses and McLarens a bit repetitive ....

#55 frogeye59

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 19:08

Originally posted by Tim Murray

We made enquiries at the time and were told that the Sutton car was the genuine item, but I can't now remember where that info came from or how reliable it might be.


I'm 99% certain the Coventry car is the rep, there was something about the car that made us wonder, so we asked the guide in the area and he confirmed it was a rep.

For the life of me I can't remember what it was, but seem to think it was something daft or really out of place.

Might have been the small Talbot road car badge on the bonnet edge, or no aerial mount on the roof, or just too damned straight for a campaigned rally car.

Cheers

David

#56 Nick Taylor

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 20:50

David

You are correct - a big clue being that the Coventy car is Right Hand Drive


Cheers


Nick

#57 RA Historian

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 01:04

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Finally, I have to say I found the massed ranks of Williamses and McLarens a bit repetitive ....

Yeah, but a repetition I would love to see!

#58 Martin Roessler

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 01:29

Bathurst

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#59 eldougo

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 01:49

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Martin Roessler
[B]Bathurst
Rodney Jane????..........he was,t even born when Bob raced the Jag.



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#60 Martin Roessler

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 06:09

i'd say he got it for his 18th birthday :cat:

#61 Barry Boor

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 06:44

RA, your wish, as they say, is my...... etc etc etc.

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And a few individual vehicles:

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#62 r.atlos

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 08:24

This one completely slipped my attention:

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Originally posted by D-Type

Now let me guess:
A replica? of the Mille Miglia winning BMW 328

No, please ! A Veritas ...

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Originally posted by D-Type

A genuine BMW 507 despiter the erroneous caption stating that they dominated hill climbs in the 1950s

They did - not in terms of outright wins (these were dominated by Porsche 718s in those days) but winning the big GT class. One driver was a veteran in his early 60s by the name of Hans Stuck.

#63 wildman

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 13:58

One of the most remarkable vehicle collections I've ever visited is the Barber museum in Birmingham, Alabama. More than 500 bikes on display at any given moment, spread out over five floors of a spectacular gallery that overlooks the Barber Motorsports Park circuit. Many of the bikes have been in storage from new and never restored.

Hesketh:
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John Player Norton:
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Ex-Saarinen Yamaha:
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Ex-Pasolini Harley-Davidson XR750
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Britten:
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Honda's oval-piston NR750:
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Mr. Barber loves cars, too -- especially Lotus:

Gurney's Type 29 from 1963:
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Type 30:
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Type 70 F5000:
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Ex-Arnoux Surtees TS20:
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#64 RA Historian

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 14:07

Originally posted by Barry Boor
RA, your wish, as they say, is my...... etc etc etc.

Well, I asked for it! Thanks, Barry!
Tom

#65 wildman

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 14:23

Down the road a bit from the Barber museum is the so-called "International" Motorsports Hall of Fame, on the grounds of the Talladega superspeedway. As one might expect from the location, the IMHOF is primarily a shrine to all things NASCAR, and a rather unkempt one at that. But there are a few interesting displays.

Ex-Bobby Isaac Charger Daytona:
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Ex-Vukovich '72 Eagle, alongside a Novi:
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And looking very out-of-place in this company, a Panoz LMP-1:
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#66 MODE

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 14:39

As it was said to be the last F1 GP at Magny Cours, I had to go back, maybe for the last time, to this great Ligier museum. I say it's great because the way cars are on display you can go around them, very close and take interesting photos, the light being also good enough. I went to Donington museum some weeks ago and was so frustrated, the collection of cars is the best in the world but you can only see the front of many of the cars (Williams and McLaren rooms).

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#67 kayemod

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 16:36

Originally posted by MODE
I went to Donington museum some weeks ago and was so frustrated, the collection of cars is the best in the world but you can only see the front of many of the cars (Williams and McLaren rooms).


I think Donington do a pretty good job, given the available space, though Barry's pics make it look more crowded than I remember. Last time I went was two or three years ago, it was a weekday, and almost deserted. Our party of four were climbing over the ropes from time to time to look at rear ends & down into cockpits etc, and no-one seemed to mind. I expect we were being watched on CCTV, and of course we didn't try to unscrew anything to take home as a souvenir. Was it my imagination, or were there very few if any Donington cars at Goodwood this year?

#68 Mark A

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 18:53

Originally posted by frogeye59


I'm 99% certain the Coventry car is the rep, there was something about the car that made us wonder, so we asked the guide in the area and he confirmed it was a rep.

For the life of me I can't remember what it was, but seem to think it was something daft or really out of place.

Might have been the small Talbot road car badge on the bonnet edge, or no aerial mount on the roof, or just too damned straight for a campaigned rally car.

Cheers

David


I asked the chairman of the Sunbeam Lotus Owners Club via email last night, so we now have the definitive answer. He tried to post himself but was unable to because registrations were temporarily disabled apparently, anyhow, here is his response.


Hello Mark,
Thanks for your enquiry. I just logged on to the forum and tried to register to post a reply but registration is temporarily disabled. Perhaps you could add a reply on my behalf.

Anyway, the David Sutton car is the genuine RAC-winner. The car was sold to Talbot Spain at the end of 1981 and used there by Antonio Zanini before moving on into private ownership. It is now part of the collection looked after by Sutton; I believe it is all now owned by an American. If you look closely you can see where the car had a new roof fitted following its roll on the 1981 RAC Rally, which ultimately led to Toivonen's retirement from the event with engine damage. The Lombard and other decals on the car, as well as the number plates, were supplied by the Sunbeam Lotus Owners' Club; the car looked a bit sad before we got involved to make it look a bit more like it should.

The car in the Museum of British Road Transport is, as stated by others, not 'KKV' at all, but the bodyshell of a crashed 1979 Tony Pond car, (hence RHD) straightened sufficiently to look OK on display. It was used by the factory in period in various liveries for show purposes before being presented to the museum (its livery is from the 1981 RAC). Although it has many genuine works pieces, like the Carellos, seats (both missing from the 'real' car) and so on, the engine is missing certain internal components, the exhaust is incomplete and the axle is not correct.

So, although one car is real, it is lacking a lot of originality, while the 'fake' has plenty of originality. All part of the story of the great Talbot Sunbeam Lotus!

Best regards,
Graeme Lawton
Chairman, Sunbeam Lotus Owners' Club.
www.sunbeamlotus.com



#69 Gary C

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 19:57

From what I've heard, there will be a new, interesting addition to the Lotus content of the Barber Museum by the end of the year. Keep an eye out for it.................

#70 kayemod

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 20:06

Originally posted by Gary C
From what I've heard, there will be a new, interesting addition to the Lotus content of the Barber Museum by the end of the year. Keep an eye out for it.................


I hope you aren't going to tell us that the rumours were correct, and that Colin Chapman has been discovered living under an assumed name, somewhere in South America....

#71 Gary C

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 20:53

oh bugger! You knew already!

#72 Barry Boor

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 22:23

Gary, does this mean that what we discussed the other day has come to pass? :(

#73 Vitesse2

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 22:44

Originally posted by frogeye59


I'm 99% certain the Coventry car is the rep, there was something about the car that made us wonder, so we asked the guide in the area and he confirmed it was a rep.
.....
Cheers

David

The description now confirms that it's a factory-built replica. I was there today.

#74 Sťamas M.

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 09:56

Originally posted by Mark A
Wonder which is the real one?


From looking at the photos I'd say the Sutton car is more likely, it's LHD! ;)

Edit: Only a week late! The perils of posting before reading to the end of the thread! :rotfl:

#75 kevthedrummer

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 13:58

Some photos to go with Barry's from Donington, taken on Wednesday:

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#76 zakeriath

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 20:18

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MODE
[B]As it was said to be the last F1 GP at Magny Cours, I had to go back, maybe for the last time, to this great Ligier museum. I say it's great because the way cars are on display you can go around them, very close and take interesting photos, the light being also good enough.
Mode,

Any exhibits of the JS5, especially with with flying tea pot air duct?

#77 Alan Cox

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 20:57

In the early 1990s, the ex-Dennis Poore Alfa 8C was displayed in its unrestored state at Donington, when owned by Anthony Mayman

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A brace of McLarens; the 4WD and the F2 M21

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#78 D-Type

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 21:14

Originally posted by kevthedrummer
Some photos to go with Barry's from Donington, taken on Wednesday:

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Now let me guess ...



No, I'll let someone else can make a fool of themselves this time.

#79 bradbury west

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 20:24

Originally posted by Alan Cox
In the early 1990s, the ex-Dennis Poore Alfa 8C was displayed in its unrestored state at Donington, when owned by Anthony Mayman

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And a shot of the car minus bodywork still at Donington. What a pity it was later £restored" from its former glorious condition, just as last used by Poore.

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Apologies forn the poor image etc.

Roger Lund.

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#80 philippe7

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 06:31

Hello friends

I spent the week-end on the Le Mans Bugatti circuit helping out a friend who was (motorcycle) racing there. I took a couple of hours off to visit the museum . Here is a small selection of cars from the 60's and 70's......what I found nice is that the cars are not over-restored. In fact, most seem not to be restored at all .

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#81 eldougo

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 10:32

[QUOTE]Originally posted by philippe7
[B]Hello friends
.....what I found nice is that the cars are not over-restored. In fact, most seem not to be restored at all .

It,s good to find a place like that, not this Posh, Polished,Poser cars that we have forced onto us by the $$$$$.And people who think that if it does not shine it,s NO Good.These cars are historical cars and should be left the way they where not the $$$$ way .

#82 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 10:50

Some I took at Peter Kaus' 'Rosso Bianco' museum in 1990. It was housed over 4 floors in a huge old textile factory at Achaffenburg, not far from Frankfurt. Well over 300 cars. Closed now I believe, with the remaining cars sold to a Dutch collection?

Some from the Can-Am hall:
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Mercedes and Ferrari hall:
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Some of the oldest on show:
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Ex- Walter Wolf Countach:
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Huge mural in the 'Le Mans' hall - not one of my paintings though:
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1950s:
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1960s:
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Gorgeous 904:
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#83 kayemod

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 10:51

Originally posted by philippe7
......what I found nice is that the cars are not over-restored. In fact, most seem not to be restored at all .


I'm not speaking from vast experience here, but isn't that just the French way with these things? To me, most of the Schlumpf exhibits look pretty much as they would have done when new, a few in fact probably slightly worse, including a rather sad Mercedes 300SLR which was suffering from cracked and peeling bodyfiller when I was last there a year or so ago. Many of the 1930s Mulhouse cars had been expertly brush painted, just as they would have been originally, modern spray painting just doesn't look right on many older cars. On the subject of Mercedes 300SLRs, what a contrast with the one at Goodwood this year, a truly immaculate finish with paint and panel fits just like a brand new S Class Merc on its way to a customer, and the W125 was just as bad. Factory cars were always well presented by MB, but they were never anything like these excessively tarted-up examples from their museum, but maybe period realism isn't what they want to show.

#84 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 13:48

Andrew, I see that collection has one of only 9 Lister Jaguars ever built - of which, of course, only 15 still exist!

(Always makes Peter Connew laught, that one.)

#85 frogeye59

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 16:10

Some photo's from my recent visit to :- Musée de l'Automobiliste de Mougins which is located near a service station on the motorway just North of Antibes in the South of France.

I have had a wander around almost every year of the lest ten, whilst on family holidays. Whilst there is a hardcore of regular exhibits, the selection has changed every year with some exellent displays of american metal, group b rally cars, le mans cars, formula 1, and paris dakar.

1976 - JCD Formula 2 Powered by V6 Dino Engine
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Ferrari Sports Car, recently returned from an Italian Event - I'm guessing 1950's, can anyone identify ??
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Alfa Romeo 6C
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The Guidobaldi Chassis, designed so the wheels lean into corners
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Patrick Tambay Beatrice Lola
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Beautiful Delahaye
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My French is not too strong but I think the description says this is a recreation, based on a 1938 wreck, of the Bugatti 57C "Tank" the type in which Jean Bugatti perished.
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Selection of Le Mans racers
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1937 Darl'Mat Peugeot 302 Le Mans Car
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Renault 4 based Alpine A106
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Renault 4 Rallye
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"Mini Me" Dreams of being Grover Williams
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Cheers

David




#86 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 16:30

Frogeye, this car was the subject of much discussion after I posted a picture of it following a visit to that museum last year.

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=87996

#87 Alan Cox

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 16:56

Ferrari Sports Car, recently returned from an Italian Event - I'm guessing 1950's, can anyone identify ??



It's a 250GT Tour de France. 1956-1959

http://www.qv500.com...ari250tdfp1.php

If you look at this gallery you will see that there were myriad nose styles
http://www.supercars...rID=2107&pgID=1

#88 bradbury west

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 17:03

The glory of Mougins is that lots of the displays are different in theme or content at each visit, possibly something to do with the funding or licence agreement for the museum IIRC. Always interesting, and with such good access and parking.

Roger Lund.

#89 Pils1989

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 17:13

maybe the Maeght connection?

#90 frogeye59

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 17:18

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Frogeye, this car was the subject of much discussion after I posted a picture of it following a visit to that museum last year.

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=87996


Ah yes so it was, Oops.

For those with an education, here is the French display note.

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Thanks Barry

David

#91 Alan Cox

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 17:43

Porsche used to have a small and very cramped museum surrounded by factory buildings. I believe that a new one is nearing completion in which they will be able to do justice to their fine collection. Here are some pictures from a visit made about 15 years ago.

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#92 Alan Cox

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 18:03

Following on from Porsche, some photos from the old Mercedes-Benz museum, which I thought was splendid and provided excellent viewing and photographic opportunities - to top that the new one nust be something else.

The racing cars were displayed inside a spiral walkway
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W25
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W125 and W154
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W154 and the Tripoli W165 "Voiturette"
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W196 Streamliner
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And a couple of shots from the small museum at Hockenheim
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The 1969 F2 BMW and Lauda's Mercedes 190E from the opening meeting at the new Nurburgring.

#93 David M. Kane

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 04:03

Alan I too was at the old Porsche and Mercedes Museums about the same time. In the MB Museum they had all the significant cars on these beautiful Walnut pallets...very impressive!

#94 scooperman

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 22:01

at the Donington Museum in 2003, I got very frustrated that I had only brought one lens, I was unable to get all of the McLarens in one shot. Then I noticed the mirror in the corner...

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#95 dbltop

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 07:33

Now that I have scanned some of my photos, I can share some of them :wave:
My wife and I visited the Ford museum on our way back from the U.S. GP in 2002. There is a lot of interesting cars including this inside the front door.

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The main reason I wanted to visit is this.

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Amazingly it was tucked into the back corner surrounded by insignificant ( by comparison ) cars such as a Sneva March,

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and an Elliott Thunderbird

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plus an early Mustang prototype

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#96 doc knutsen

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 12:40

Originally posted by petefenelon


It's a very special place, with a lovely laid-back atmosphere. You can get very close to the cars and really look closely at them. I was there on a nice quiet morning and there were only a few other punters in. There's a very magical feel to some of the cars and it's very hard not to feel humbled by some of the - the wreckage of David Purley's LEC just to give an idea of the violence of the accident he survived, and the Roger Williamson display just to emphasise how much the sport (and Tom Wheatcroft in particular) lost with his passing.

There are a few oddities there - the Iso-Marlboro nosecone in amongst the Marlboro BRMs, for a start! - but it's a splendid museum and I think anyone with a love of racing should try to get there.

I understand that Tom himself can often be found in there (I think Doc Knutsen found him in the café one day!)


Unfortunately, the last time I went the cafe was closed, and nobody seemed to know when - or indeed if - it would be opened again.
And yes, I did meet Tom there a few years ago, eating eggs, beans and chips and watching a Senna video.
I spent a lovely twenty minutes or so chatting to him, until his wife tugged at his arm, requesting that he left the Norwegian gentlemen get on with their meal before the food got cold...
Turns out he is just as much as a red-blooded enthusiast as we all would like to believe a man in his position is.
When he heard that I used to attend many of the races of Ronnie Peterson's early career he was clearly delighted,
confessing to being a huge Ronnie fan.
Yes, a wonderful, down-to-earth character.

#97 dbltop

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 17:33

Here are some from the museum at Indy

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#98 MODE

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 13:05

Back from Italy and a (short) visit to Ferrari museum, I made a page, mostly dedicated to F1 exhibits, here :
http://www.gurneyfla...rarimuseum.html
The collection of engine is amazing and you there are NO cords around the cars :up:



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#99 Alan Cox

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 21:16

Nice to see that the Indy museum hasn't sold the W196 Mercedes that it was presented with, unlike another museum that shall remain nameless..

On a trip around the German museums about 15 years ago, I came across the splendid little museum at Ludwigsburg, which, in those days, was also a repository for a selection of cars which the Porsche Museum did not have room to display (lighting in museums has come a long way since the early 90s! - see the Ferrari and Indy Museum posts above)

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Elsewhere in the museum were these:
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I must have visited Peter Kaus's Rosso Bianco Collection at about the same time as Andrew Kitson in his previous post. A fantastic collection of sports-racers and prototypes, but it struck me as a particularly soulless and unloved museum with no atmosphere, other than that of a disused textile factory.
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#100 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
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Posted 30 July 2007 - 03:45

Alan:

You're killing me, this is like looking at pretty women and not being able to touch!