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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#5151 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 19:13

Friends:

Yesterday my copy of the new Leon Mandel book, The Jaundiced Eye, arrived, and it's a fascinating read. The book is a compilation of the best of Leon's Competition Press & AutoWeek columns, from the 1960s onward, edited by Kevin Wilson. Reading it, you can just hear Leon's gravelly voice, and you realize that this guy was an amazingly good writer who just happened to dedicate his efforts to automotive enthusiasm. Very highly recommended. See www.671press.com.

Frank


Thanks, Frank. I will pick this up for sure. Now, if we could get Shep's and Weith's Car and Driver stuff re-published that would be great. Throw McCall's Denbeigh pieces in there, too!

Jack.

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 02 July 2010 - 19:16.


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#5152 PRD

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:18

Saw a copy of Time and Two Seats on Horton's stand at the Festival of Speed yesterday. £900 :eek:

I knew I should have bought two at £140

#5153 Canon14

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 17:03

Saw a copy of Time and Two Seats on Horton's stand at the Festival of Speed yesterday. £900 :eek:

I knew I should have bought two at £140

Does the collective wisdom of TNF know if there is any likelihood of Time and Two Seats being reprinted? The same goes for the first of the follow up picture books - Open Roads and Front Engines.

There must be quite a few who would love to have a copy, but not at any price. Maybe just maybe there would enough of us to justify the costs involved.

#5154 VWV

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 18:49

Does the collective wisdom of TNF know if there is any likelihood of Time and Two Seats being reprinted? The same goes for the first of the follow up picture books - Open Roads and Front Engines.

There must be quite a few who would love to have a copy, but not at any price. Maybe just maybe there would enough of us to justify the costs involved.



I have no idea if their are plans to reprint either book but I happen to own all of Jano's books. The one's that got away from me and I'm sorry I never bought when they were resonably priced are John Wyer's "The Certain Sound" and Preston Lerner's Scarab book.

#5155 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 18:50

What are you prepared to pay for Open roads and Front engines ?

#5156 kayemod

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 18:59

Does the collective wisdom of TNF know if there is any likelihood of Time and Two Seats being reprinted? The same goes for the first of the follow up picture books - Open Roads and Front Engines.


Rather doubtful I would have thought, weren't the originals published privately? Not many seem to have been printed, which is why they're so scarce and fetch such high prices, I don't think there's any chance of either of them ever getting much cheaper.

On a similar topic, has anyone noticed the prices that old 60s & early 70s copies of Autocourse are fetching? A 60s one went for over £500 on eBay a week or so ago.


#5157 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 19:30

Saw a copy of Time and Two Seats on Horton's stand at the Festival of Speed yesterday. £900 :eek:

I knew I should have bought two at £140

FWIW an unopened, still shrink-wrapped copy sold for £800 on eBay last week and another (used) went through unsold at £1500. A US dealer is currently advertising one with minor wear for $1995.00.

Autocourse prices on eBay are indeed getting silly though. Pooks' standard price for 1960s ones is £250 - I don't see why anybody would pay more.

#5158 PRD

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 19:37

FWIW an unopened, still shrink-wrapped copy sold for £800 on eBay last week and another (used) went through unsold at £1500. A US dealer is currently advertising one with minor wear for $1995.00.

Autocourse prices on eBay are indeed getting silly though. Pooks' standard price for 1960s ones is £250 - I don't see why anybody would pay more.


Automobile Year(s) from the sixties are much cheaper, for the time being

#5159 RA Historian

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 21:26

Autocourse prices on eBay are indeed getting silly though. Pooks' standard price for 1960s ones is £250 - I don't see why anybody would pay more.

Good! The sillier the better, as I have 'em all, four of the 1960s editions autographed by that year's World Champion. Not that I intend to sell anytime soon, but it sure is good to know!
Tom

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#5160 ryan86

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 00:01

I've been snapping up a few Autocourses from the 80's and 90's this year, but I don't think I'm going to go further back than 83 unless I win the lottery, because after that I just don't feel it's worth it. Still, were I to unexpectedly pass, it would be nice to think that my family might get a nice meal out of the ones I do have, if perhaps not in RA Historian's new car territory!

#5161 fbarrett

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 00:07

Jack:

Shep's books (In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash and Wanda Hickey's Night of Golden Memories) are probably still available used via Amazon. Bruce McCall's classic Zany Afternoons and The Last Year at Dream-O-Rama (may have muffed that last title a bit) may also be found there. Then he did a book on countries "shaped like meat" and on dogs, etc., etc. His autobiography, Thin Ice, is a great look at Detroit advertising in the 1950s. Did you know McCall was part of McCaffrey & McCall, the big Mad Ave ad agency that worked for Mercedes-Benz USA? His stuff is still published in The New Yorker, too. Unfortunately, I know of no compilation of Warren Weith's columns, but I still have a used book catalog from him...

I listened to Shep on WOR religiously from about 1959 to about 1967 and had the pleasure of meeting him once. Also met McCall once: we were flying in a Short Skyvan commuter plane that looked like a big shoebox with wings, something he could well have dreamed up. His brother Walt runs the magazine of The Professional Car Society, for those who collect hearses and ambulances (no evidence of the same kind of humor, though).

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 07 July 2010 - 00:09.


#5162 PRD

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:32

Does the collective wisdom of TNF know if there is any likelihood of Time and Two Seats being reprinted? The same goes for the first of the follow up picture books - Open Roads and Front Engines.

There must be quite a few who would love to have a copy, but not at any price. Maybe just maybe there would enough of us to justify the costs involved.


Very little chance of a reprint of TATS I'd guess. Its such a big work- two volumes and over 2000 pages.

On the other hand David Bull might well entertain a reprint of Open Roads if enough people contact them requesting it. I don't know what sort of print run they'd need though

#5163 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:39

Post 5158 , the here mentioned interest appears to be at ebay then ? l

#5164 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 19:38

Jack:

Shep's books (In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash and Wanda Hickey's Night of Golden Memories) are probably still available used via Amazon. Bruce McCall's classic Zany Afternoons and The Last Year at Dream-O-Rama (may have muffed that last title a bit) may also be found there. Then he did a book on countries "shaped like meat" and on dogs, etc., etc. His autobiography, Thin Ice, is a great look at Detroit advertising in the 1950s. Did you know McCall was part of McCaffrey & McCall, the big Mad Ave ad agency that worked for Mercedes-Benz USA? His stuff is still published in The New Yorker, too. Unfortunately, I know of no compilation of Warren Weith's columns, but I still have a used book catalog from him...

I listened to Shep on WOR religiously from about 1959 to about 1967 and had the pleasure of meeting him once. Also met McCall once: we were flying in a Short Skyvan commuter plane that looked like a big shoebox with wings, something he could well have dreamed up. His brother Walt runs the magazine of The Professional Car Society, for those who collect hearses and ambulances (no evidence of the same kind of humor, though).

Frank



Frank,

I have all of Shep's books signed by him. I met him, quite improbably, at a polo match in Palm Beach a few years before he died.

I didn't realize McCall was an ad man (I'd heard of the agency but never made the connection), but it doesn't surprise me! He recently advised me by email that his Denbeigh's articles (the ones I'm really looking for) haven't been compiled in any of his books, and he doesn't expect that they will be. His feeling is that there's no market for car books, but I think the opposite is true. I read about new titles almost every week in this forum.

On my profile page on another web site I have listed under "vehicles wanted:" Denbeigh Super Chauvinist Mk. II. In fact even our own DCN got tripped up when I kiddingly mentioned Denbeigh's in another forum. He thought I was referring to a real car. I think Bruce would be pleased!

Jack

#5165 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 19:43

I happen to own all of Jano's books.

Same here. I think that as a set they represent the definitive history of post-war sports car racing.

#5166 fbarrett

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 22:56

Friends:

Regarding the availability of Open Roads and Front Engines, I can add that although new copies of the standard edition have been unavailable for about two years, copies of the Publisher's Edition, signed by Tony Brooks, John Fitch, Dan Gurney, Hans Herrmann, and Roy Salvadori, are still available from David Bull (http://www.bullpubli...m.asp?itemid=55). This special series was limited to 300 numbered copies, and I'm told that several dozen are still available, new. The original $295 price remains, but since secondhand prices of the standard edition are so high, the PE might be a great option for those who must have a copy, especially if such autographs matter to you. Because all book reprint costs are so high, I highly doubt that David plans to reprint the standard edition at this time.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 07 July 2010 - 22:58.


#5167 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 05:48

I missed the Front Engines and Open Roads and as beautifull the remaining titles are, I just wont pay the amount second hand editions are going for. As I don't regard myself as a book collecter but a reader/viewer, I'll live with that. I wonder if Wimpffen has a fifth picture book to the line-up, as his most recent title covered the 1980/early 1990s Group C and Daytona/Sebring races. Time and Two Seats continued to 1998, so there should be scope for another book.

Jesper

#5168 RA Historian

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 14:41

Janos is always busy! He has been spending a lot of time and effort the last couple years on a history of Elva. Judging from his past efforts, I suspect that it will be very thorough indeed. I understand that it is nearing publication.
Tom

#5169 Canon14

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:37

What are you prepared to pay for Open roads and Front engines ?


I missed the Front Engines and Open Roads and as beautifull the remaining titles are, I just wont pay the amount second hand editions are going for. As I don't regard myself as a book collecter but a reader/viewer, I'll live with that. I wonder if Wimpffen has a fifth picture book to the line-up, as his most recent title covered the 1980/early 1990s Group C and Daytona/Sebring races. Time and Two Seats continued to 1998, so there should be scope for another book.

Jesper



I discovered Janos Wimpffen's books very late in the day. The Monocoques and Grounds Effects book opened my eyes (it covers my era!) and I worked back through Spyders and Silhouettes and Winged Sports Cars. I got each of them at list price or whatever Amazon was offering them for at the time. In my reckoning the publisher's price of £95 is a lot of money for a book but for these I can convince myself that they are worth it. Jesper sums it up nicely. I don't see myself as a collector but I do like a good read. Though I know the book will be fantastic, the £295+ being asked for Open Roads on Amazon and elsewhere at the moment is really in the collector category.

I had previously come across the Publisher's Edition (thanks Frank for highlighting it) but there is always the little matter of $100 postage to the UK on top. If I win the lottery, that would be the one.

I can but hope that if enough of us make it known there is some demand out there, one day they can be reprinted.

Steven


#5170 fbarrett

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 23:36

I had previously come across the Publisher's Edition (thanks Frank for highlighting it) but there is always the little matter of $100 postage to the UK on top. If I win the lottery, that would be the one.
Steven


Steven:

David Bull has British importers (Haynes?) for some of his books, so there's a slight chance that a few publisher's editions may already be in England. Check with your usual British retailers and ask them to check with the British importer. It's a long shot but may save you a hundred quid.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 08 July 2010 - 23:37.


#5171 seb333

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:40

The same question about Janos Wimpffen's future publications came on an other forum by the end of last year and here is Mr Wimpffen's answer:

Good to hear from you. My publication schedule is the following (dates are
not exact, but the sequence is)

early 2010; a book on the history of Elva

spring 2010; a "decade book" of Time and Two Seats, covering the 1999-2009
period--similar format with stories, photos, and data

June-July 2010; a data book with the same races as the original Time and Two
Seats but with additional information such as more chassis numbers plus
corrections of mistakes--very little text and photos, mostly data

Only then will we discuss the possibility of a "GT photo book"--that is,
1993-1998.

Let's stay in contact!

Regards,
Janos


#5172 PRD

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:20

Steven:

David Bull has British importers (Haynes?) for some of his books, so there's a slight chance that a few publisher's editions may already be in England. Check with your usual British retailers and ask them to check with the British importer. It's a long shot but may save you a hundred quid.

Frank


That'd be good, and I stand to be corrected, but I've never seen David Bull publisher's editions for sale on this side of the pond

#5173 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 14:10

If anybody's desperate for one, Chaters currently have a copy of the signed leather-bound limited edition of TATS for £1250.

It might also be worth contacting them re the David Bull publisher's editions and asking nicely.

#5174 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 16:25

The same question about Janos Wimpffen's future publications came on an other forum by the end of last year and here is Mr Wimpffen's answer:

Good to hear from you. My publication schedule is the following (dates are
not exact, but the sequence is)

early 2010; a book on the history of Elva

spring 2010; a "decade book" of Time and Two Seats, covering the 1999-2009
period--similar format with stories, photos, and data

June-July 2010; a data book with the same races as the original Time and Two
Seats but with additional information such as more chassis numbers plus
corrections of mistakes--very little text and photos, mostly data

Only then will we discuss the possibility of a "GT photo book"--that is,
1993-1998.

Let's stay in contact!

Regards,
Janos


Thank you for the update, seb333 - a few titles to look out for tonight!

Update: From another another site (10-Tenth as of June 19th 2010) I have found that the Elva book should be available in a few months - titled The Cars Just happen - The Story of Elva. With the third book on the above mentioned list planned for this time of year, it will probably be some time before IT will hit the market. I'll gladly wait for that.

OT - in 2008 I was at the Sebring 12 hours and in one of the historic support races a silver sedan appeared that perplexed me and my traveling companions. Superficially it looked like a overgrown Ford Anglia 105E or an undersized Studebaker Avanti with a wrong rear window. Seing the car the next day standing still in the paddock it turned out to be an Elva! That year Elva had some kind of celebration at the race, as numerous other Elvas appeared.

Jesper

Edited by Jesper O. Hansen, 09 July 2010 - 22:29.


#5175 Ren de Boer

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 06:50

When I last met him at Le Mans (24h that is, not Classic), Janos told me that publication of the 00s-decade-book as an addition to TATS had been postponed to Spring, 2011, and that the book will also include full results of the 2010 season.

#5176 Breadmaster

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 13:21

Have just received my complementary copy of Grand Prix Battlegrounds by Christopher Hilton
(I submitted a few photographs and a bit of comment about Monjuic Park)

I haven't had a chance to read through the rest of the book but will submit a proper review here when I have....

Ted

#5177 vashlin

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 18:37

Ted,

I await your comments on Grand Prix Battlegrounds with interest.

I also have a few pictures in the book and as well as some comments.

Chris tells me my copy is on its way and I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has already seen it.

Lin

#5178 paulhooft

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 20:30

I have this great books called :
Motor racing Circuits of Europe
by Klemantaski and Frostick for 40 or more years now..
It is one of my favourits, a Gem!!
If the new book is an addition to it,
I love to have one :wave:
kindests regards
Paul





Ted,

I await your comments on Grand Prix Battlegrounds with interest.

I also have a few pictures in the book and as well as some comments.

Chris tells me my copy is on its way and I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has already seen it.

Lin



#5179 Breadmaster

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 21:28

Ted,

I await your comments on Grand Prix Battlegrounds with interest.

I also have a few pictures in the book and as well as some comments.

Chris tells me my copy is on its way and I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has already seen it.

Lin


Out of interest, which circuit were your photos and comment regarding?

ted

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#5180 kayemod

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:01

I'm sure this has been covered before in the book thread, the accuracy and reliability of Georgano's Encyclopaedia of Motor Sport. I ran a search in this thread, but with 130 pages to cover, and the fact that the words 'Georgano' and 'encyclopaedia' are often misspelled, yes, even by TNFs, that didn't help much. The reason I'm asking is that I've finally bought a copy, the postman staggered up the drive with it a few hours ago, and upon opening it at random, the first thing I saw was a pic captioned as "A McLaren M6B driven by Denny Hulme" that was very obviously, to me at any rate an 8D, the 6B was a customer car of course, Bruce and Denny never raced them. I can't believe that I've been unlucky enough to find the only error in the entire book, so can others reassure me? In an undertaking as huge as this, a few errors are inevitable, but it the book generally reliable? The error I spotted was so obvious to any orange McLaren enthusiast, that it's made me ever so slightly cautious about the rest of the content, however, if I were ever cast away on the BBC's desert island, I'd happily make a warming fire of The Bible & Shakespeare, and wade into Mr Georgano's work.

#5181 vashlin

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:15

Out of interest, which circuit were your photos and comment regarding?

ted



My photos are from Watkins Glen, Mosport, Montreal, Long Beach and Brands Hatch. One photo, from the Glen, is on the back cover, I believe. I did comments for Watkins Glen, Mosport and Brands.

Lin

#5182 Breadmaster

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:18

My photos are from Watkins Glen, Mosport, Montreal, Long Beach and Brands Hatch. One photo, from the Glen, is on the back cover, I believe. I did comments for Watkins Glen, Mosport and Brands.

Lin


wow! i'll look up your entries with interest....

#5183 RA Historian

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:57

Georgano's Encyclopaedia of Motor Sport.

Rob, I bought my copy back when it came out in 1971 ($25 at the time, which then was steep!) and have used it periodically ever since. I have never read it cover to cover, but have picked and chosen over the years. I have found it to be very informative in many areas, mostly those in which I do not have a main source of reference such as a dedicated book or in depth magazine article. My opinion is that it is a very wide ranging tome, but that it does have the occasional error. Not many that I have found, though. I guess the summation would be that as with most reference materials, a back up with a second reference wouldn't hurt.
Tom

#5184 Tim Murray

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 14:25

I bought my copy of the Georgano encyclopaedia in 1973 and (as I was much keener and had greater powers of concentration in those days) I did read it from cover to cover. As I read I made notes of all the errors and omissions I spotted, and this list has remained inside the book ever since. I've just checked it, and it runs to eight sides of 10" by 8" paper (and includes Rob's McLaren error, which appears on page 47). Having said that, a work of this scope, with so many different contributors, is bound to contain errors. It's still one of the most useful and treasured books I possess.

#5185 Vitesse2

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 15:33

... as Tom Wheatcroft used to say, show me the man who has never made a mistake - and I'll show you one who hasn't done much.

DCN

:wave:

#5186 kayemod

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 18:26

I bought my copy of the Georgano encyclopaedia in 1973 and (as I was much keener and had greater powers of concentration in those days) I did read it from cover to cover. As I read I made notes of all the errors and omissions I spotted, and this list has remained inside the book ever since. I've just checked it, and it runs to eight sides of 10" by 8" paper (and includes Rob's McLaren error, which appears on page 47). Having said that, a work of this scope, with so many different contributors, is bound to contain errors. It's still one of the most useful and treasured books I possess.


My God Tim, you've got some patience! Overall, I've only skimmed at random so far, but the book makes a good impression. Allowing for currency rates, I paid just about double what RA paid in 1971 for a nice copy, so I think I got quite a good deal. About those 8 pages of errata notes. I don't suppose a tidily wrapped right arm would elicit a copy?


#5187 Tim Murray

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 21:21

My God Tim, you've got some patience!

Had, Rob, had - I certainly couldn't be bothered to do it again now.

About those 8 pages of errata notes. I don't suppose a tidily wrapped right arm would elicit a copy?

Rob, I really wouldn't want to deprive you of your right arm - I'm not sure what I'd do with it anyway. No, a troupe of Tahitian dancing girls and a few cases of good red wine will suffice.

Seriously, I'll gladly send you a copy of my list, but will need to transcribe my scribble and shorthand into a form that other people might just be able to make head or tail of, which might take a few days. (This is what I planned to do all those years ago - 37 years from start to finish of a task will be a record even for me.) I'll be in touch via PM when I've done it.

Alternatively, if anyone else is interested, maybe we could start a thread on errors in Georgano, similar to the one Michael Ferner started on the Popely Indianapolis book. Any takers?

#5188 kayemod

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 10:02

...if anyone else is interested, maybe we could start a thread on errors in Georgano, similar to the one Michael Ferner started on the Popely Indianapolis book. Any takers?



That sounds like a great idea for a thread, though the number of participants is going to be somewhat limited, there can't be all that many copies of Nick Georgano's Meisterwerk still around, even among TNFs, I only got a copy myself yesterday. I had a quick look for one or two obvious errors, like the MB paint-stripping story, but Nick seems to have avoided that one as far as I can see. That's pretty good going for 1971, when it was even more oft repeated than it is today, most recently by Mercedes themselves at a press do earlier this year apparently. In a work with this scope, a few errors are inevitable, so I hope no-one things we're 'out to get' Nick Georgano, is he still around? As I said yesterday, my first impressions are that it's a staggering achievement in almost all respects, but you'll have to excuse me now, I have 656 pages to wade through.

#5189 bradbury west

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 11:31

Nick Georgano, is he still around? As


Resident in the Channel Islands, the last I heard.
Whilst a correction/amendment facility is a worthwhile exercise, if that sort of thing turns you on, and for my part I am not inclined to read the whole tome, even if I had the knowledge to correct errors, I do feel that the book should be used as a working guidance tool, to offer salient background of substance, but also to serve as a stimulus for further research, which you would surely be doing if you wanted to be experet on a topic. Otherwise a general overview of information should suffice. We have previously had criticisms of Mr Boddy's work, and of the A-Z of Racing cars, IIRC inter alia. It is only a short step to becoming "coffee-shop mechanics", IMHO.
Roger Lund

"To educate this boy further would be to deny some village its idiot...."

Edited by bradbury west, 16 July 2010 - 19:19.


#5190 Tom V

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:21

The same question about Janos Wimpffen's future publications came on an other forum by the end of last year and here is Mr Wimpffen's answer:

....
Only then will we discuss the possibility of a "GT photo book"--that is,
1993-1998.

Let's stay in contact!

Regards,
Janos



I do hope Mr Wimpffen will give that 90's GT photo book a serious thought! It's much easier to find picture books of the Group C era (World Sportscar Racing annuals) or the 50-60-70's (Parker's photo books) than the early 90's! When I first learned about the photo books I was very much excited to finally have a book that would cover the whole era. There were so many GT-Sportscars series back then who never got much attention from the media. Thus making it hard to find decent pictures.


Edited by Tom V, 14 July 2010 - 12:21.


#5191 RA Historian

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 13:12

Resident in the Channel Islands, the last I heard.
Whilst a correction/amendment facility is a worthwhile exercise, if that sort of thing turns you on, and for my part I am not inclined to read the whole tome, even if I had the knowledge to correct errors, I do feel that the book should be used as a working guidance tool, to offer salient background of substance, but also to serve as a stimulus for further research, which you would surely be doing if you wanted to be experet on a topic. Otherwise a general overview of information should suffice. We have previously had criticisms of Mr Boddy's work, and of the A-Z of Racing cars, IIRC inter alia. It is only a short step to becoming "coffee-shop mechanics", IMHO.
Roger Lund

"To educate this boy further would be to deny some vilage of its idiot...."

I heartily agree with Mr. West. I am of no mood to take this book off my shelf and to minutely dissect if for any and all errors that I can find. What good would it do? Just a bunch of vultures picking over carrion. Yes, there may be the occasional goof, I've made 'em myself. Let it be.
Tom

#5192 kayemod

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 13:31

I heartily agree with Mr. West. I am of no mood to take this book off my shelf and to minutely dissect if for any and all errors that I can find. What good would it do? Just a bunch of vultures picking over carrion. Yes, there may be the occasional goof, I've made 'em myself. Let it be.
Tom


I think you're misunderstanding what's been suggested, Tim Murray only suggested a fairly light-hearted discussion of the book and its content, not a hatchet job. My own comment was "As I said yesterday, my first impressions are that it's a staggering achievement in almost all respects", and I'm only ever going to dip into the thing, I'd never dream of trying to wade all the way through it.


#5193 Tim Murray

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 14:37

I heartily agree with Mr. West. I am of no mood to take this book off my shelf and to minutely dissect if for any and all errors that I can find. What good would it do? Just a bunch of vultures picking over carrion. Yes, there may be the occasional goof, I've made 'em myself. Let it be.
Tom

Please accept that I’m not trying to ‘knock’ or criticise the book in any way, far from it. To pinch a phrase from Bill Boddy, it is ‘a magnificent tome’ and has been one of the cornerstones of my library since I bought it.

However, as we’ve already said, it inevitably contains errors, and I have a list of those I’ve spotted. I thought there might be others out there who had also noted errors in the book, and that it might be useful to pool our findings. I certainly wasn’t suggesting that anyone needs to start reading the book from cover to cover looking for errors, nor do I wish to be regarded as ‘a vulture picking over carrion’. Let’s just forget the idea, and I apologise if I’ve somehow offended anyone.


#5194 ensign14

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 16:43

I heartily agree with Mr. West. I am of no mood to take this book off my shelf and to minutely dissect if for any and all errors that I can find. What good would it do? Just a bunch of vultures picking over carrion. Yes, there may be the occasional goof, I've made 'em myself. Let it be.
Tom

I think it's more that if you pick Georgano off the shelf to look something up, and it's wrong, at least corrigenda would disabuse you of any notions.

Although I would happily indent for a new Georgano. Indeed one would think TNF could prepare one...the Connew entry would be sorted at least.

Edited by ensign14, 14 July 2010 - 16:43.


#5195 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 17:44

Although I would happily indent for a new Georgano. Indeed one would think TNF could prepare one...the Connew entry would be sorted at least.

While it's an admirable thought, I have a feeling that you'd end up with something about twice the size of "Time and Two Seats" unless you excluded everything already covered in the original, which unfortunately pre-dated all sorts of definitive histories like DCN's "Autocourse History", "Story of Lotus Vol 2" and "BRM", Posthumus & DSJ's "Vanwall", Weguelin's "ERA", KL's "Quicksilver Century", "MG by McComb" and even Cutter & Fendell's "Auto Racing Greats". (To name but a few which I can see without moving from this desk (apart from the Lotus book which my ex-wife flogged without bothering to tell me)).

No objections here to a "corrigenda thread" though.

And yes, I've read it from cover to cover. Twice :blush:

#5196 ensign14

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 17:50

While it's an admirable thought, I have a feeling that you'd end up with something about twice the size of "Time and Two Seats" unless you excluded everything already covered in the original, which unfortunately pre-dated all sorts of definitive histories like DCN's "Autocourse History", "Story of Lotus Vol 2" and "BRM", Posthumus & DSJ's "Vanwall", Weguelin's "ERA", KL's "Quicksilver Century", "MG by McComb" and even Cutter & Fendell's "Auto Racing Greats". (To name but a few which I can see without moving from this desk (apart from the Lotus book which my ex-wife flogged without bothering to tell me)).

On the basis that Georgano's road car magnum opus spilled into 2 volumes and a bonus one on coachbuilders when it became the Beaulieu Encyclopaedia, it may be possible to squeese something into TATS size. Limited audience? Yet Menard's four volume work was published. Then again, you're going to get more of a readership with F1 alone, rather than "wasting" a load of space with NASCAR and touring car articles/biographies.

#5197 helioseism

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:32

New Book:
The Speed Merchants - Frame By Frame - The 70s & 80s, by Michael Keyser, Bill Oursler and Balfour Walker, captures the excitement of what is acknowledged as a classic era in motorsport. The 346 pages contain 975 color and 71 black & white photographs–organized by marque–with brief captions identifying the car, drivers, year the car raced, and the track. It reflects the essence of road racing during two decades, from the World Manfacturer’s Championship, to the SCCA Can-Am and Trans-Am, to the IMSA Camel GT Challenge, Formula 1 and Formula 5000. Almost every make of car that took part in these races during this time is represented, making The Speed Merchants - Frame By Frame - The 70s & 80s, a must for both the casual and serious motorsport enthusiast.

Link

#5198 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 13:51

How does the Georgano book compare to The Encyclopeadia of Motor Racing by Pritchard/Davey?

#5199 ensign14

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 16:30

Probably about five times the size.

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#5200 kayemod

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 16:36

Probably about five times the size.


But as my wife often reminds me, "Size isn't everything".