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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#6551 fbarrett

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 15:33

Rega:

You'll enjoy Porsche and Me by Mezger. He tells the inside story of his involvement in the 911 and 917 engines, turbocharging, the Indy car engine, the F1 engine, and a lot more. This kind of first-person "I was there" engineering history is far too rare. To me, it's one of the best Porsche books of the last five years.

Full disclosure: I sell the book. Even if I didn't, I'd still recommend it--and buy it myself.

Frank

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#6552 continental

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 19:09

Rega:

You'll enjoy Porsche and Me by Mezger. He tells the inside story of his involvement in the 911 and 917 engines, turbocharging, the Indy car engine, the F1 engine, and a lot more. This kind of first-person "I was there" engineering history is far too rare. To me, it's one of the best Porsche books of the last five years.

Full disclosure: I sell the book. Even if I didn't, I'd still recommend it--and buy it myself.

Frank


I don't sell the book. But I bought it and love it! All of the above is correct.

Regards,
Mick

#6553 VWV

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 13:47

Amazon Canada is selling Sports Car Racing in the South by Willem Oosthoek for $17.84 Canadian again. Buy it if before they figure out the correct price.

http://www.amazon.ca...mp;sr=8-1-fkmr2

Amazon US is selling for $18

http://www.amazon.co...-...2154&sr=8-1

Edited by VWV, 20 May 2012 - 13:57.


#6554 kayemod

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:11

An interesting collection, some really good stuff, mixed in with a fair amount of rubbish, is it going to tempt anyone here? Collection only, so you'd have to live a reasonable distance from Gloucester.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...ME:B:SS:GB:1123



#6555 fbarrett

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:22

Friends:

Just finished reading The Extraordinary Life of Josef Ganz, The Jewish Engineer Behind Hitler's Volkswagen by Paul Schilperoord. Because nothing happens in the automotive world without people, biographies have always interested me, and this one is among the best. If you are at all interested in the history of the German automotive industry from the 1920s through the 1950s, you should read this book. It puts the long-ignored Ganz--a journalist and an engineer--into a more appropriate perspective, alongside Rumpler, Jaray, Porsche, Ledwinka, and others. It also details the patent struggles around the Volkswagen and its "inventors". Highly recommended.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 22 May 2012 - 01:03.


#6556 ryan86

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 00:35

An interesting collection, some really good stuff, mixed in with a fair amount of rubbish, is it going to tempt anyone here? Collection only, so you'd have to live a reasonable distance from Gloucester.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...ME:B:SS:GB:1123


It would seem a very good starting point for anyone starting a collection. However I'm far away from Gloucester and also have abou 75% of the books

#6557 Colbul1

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:01

Friends:

Just finished reading The Extraordinary Life of Josef Ganz, The Jewish Engineer Behind Hitler's Volkswagen by Paul Schilperoord. Because nothing happens in the automotive world without people, biographies have always interested me, and this one is among the best. If you are at all interested in the history of the German automotive industry from the 1920s through the 1950s, you should read this book. It puts the long-ignored Ganz--a journalist and an engineer--into a more appropriate perspective, alongside Rumpler, Jaray, Porsche, Ledwinka, and others. It also details the patent struggles around the Volkswagen and its "inventors". Highly recommended.

Frank


Following on, I have just yesterday finished reading Christopher Hilton's 'Le Mans '55' (republished in softback in April by DB Publishing) and I have to say it was one of the most interesting and well crafted books I've read. The way the crash is disected in a narrative text interspersed with quotes from the men who were driving as well as archive content was most effective and the fact it is written in a way to make the reader think as well as absorb the myriad of differences of perceptions on safety etc 50-60 years ago is quite absorbing.

Colin

#6558 nicanary

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:05

Just got Poetry in Motion on Amazon (the devil himself) for £32.17 post-free. They claim that it is in stock. Bargain.
My daughter found a copy on E-Bay for a starting price of £2.95 , dust-jacket is obviously a reject or damaged in transit. Still a good buy if you can get it for under £20.

#6559 Tuboscocca

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 16:29

Sebring 12 Hours book

K Breslauer.

Now available at

http://www.rallyandr...ial-Record-Book

Mainly a result book plus photos of the first ten and a hourly table of the first ten..

Regards Michael



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#6560 bradbury west

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 21:58

Friends:

Just finished reading The Extraordinary Life of Josef Ganz, The Jewish Engineer Behind Hitler's Volkswagen by Paul Schilperoord. Because nothing happens in the automotive world without people, biographies have always interested me, and this one is among the best. If you are at all interested in the history of the German automotive industry from the 1920s through the 1950s, you should read this book. It puts the long-ignored Ganz--a journalist and an engineer--into a more appropriate perspective, alongside Rumpler, Jaray, Porsche, Ledwinka, and others. It also details the patent struggles around the Volkswagen and its "inventors". Highly recommended.

Frank


Frank, this link takes you to a feature in one of our daily newspapers back in January 2012.
http://www.dailymail...ian-claims.html
Roger Lund

#6561 Tuboscocca

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 21:24

Just a quick note

FORMULA 1 in camera 1970-79 VOLUME 2 by Paul Parker is on sale, i.e. abebooks..

Ordered mine already!!

Regards Michael

#6562 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 20:23

Amazon Canada is selling Sports Car Racing in the South by Willem Oosthoek for $17.84 Canadian again. Buy it if before they figure out the correct price.

http://www.amazon.ca...mp;sr=8-1-fkmr2

Amazon US is selling for $18

http://www.amazon.co...-...2154&sr=8-1


There are more than 40 copies available on Ebay right now....every single seller is in the UK. That seems odd.

#6563 jj2728

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 23:31

Just a quick note

FORMULA 1 in camera 1970-79 VOLUME 2 by Paul Parker is on sale, i.e. abebooks..

Ordered mine already!!

Regards Michael


Just ordered mine from Amazon Canada.

#6564 Tuboscocca

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:44

Smale's PORSCHE 956/962 by Haynes is just on the market..

512 pages of pictures....

Best regards Michael

#6565 P0wderf1nger

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 13:01

Bjørn

Sabu Advani has posted an overwhelmingly positive review of Inside the Paddock on speedreaders.info, with lines likes ‘This book should absolutely, unreservedly be shortlisted for your 2012 must-haves!’ and ‘Vote for a second volume by opening your wallet for the first one! You will love it.’

Being a citizen of the world, he also appreciates that, ‘Speaking of foreign languages, it is simply remarkable that umlauts, capitalization etc. are done to perfection.’ Which is why he’s made an effort to locate the middle character of your first name, which in turn has prompted me to, also.

Many congratulations to you and David. You can find the review at http://speedreaders....ansporters-work.

Rgds

Paul


#6566 P0wderf1nger

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 13:08

My latest speedreaders review is of Michael Argetsinger’s Formula One at Watkins Glen, and is less positive. I found it limited in scope and sloppy in execution.

You can find the review at http://speedreaders....d-prix-19611980.

Rgds

Paul

#6567 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 13:50

Many thanks Paul !

#6568 helioseism

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 22:41

Ran across this really obscure book:

The History Of LDS In Formula One Racing
Brian Tyler

Link

Any one manage to get a copy? If so, how is it?

#6569 Jeff Weinbren

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 03:10

Helioseism
I have a copy of the LDS book, an interesting read if want to know the history of Serrurier's creations! Quite a lot of photos including some in colour. Certainly worth the price, it cost me R200.00 plus R100 shipping ($35.00 total) a year ago.
Jeff Weinbren.


#6570 helioseism

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 03:20

Helioseism
I have a copy of the LDS book, an interesting read if want to know the history of Serrurier's creations! Quite a lot of photos including some in colour. Certainly worth the price, it cost me R200.00 plus R100 shipping ($35.00 total) a year ago.
Jeff Weinbren.



Thanks, Jeff -- how did you get it? motorbooks.co.za does not have it. Did you go through heritagecars@icon.co.za?

#6571 Jeff Weinbren

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:23

Yes, I went through heritagecars@icon.co.za, mind you that was a year ago.
Jeff.


#6572 Jeff Weinbren

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:30

Here is the address from the book, if it helps!

P.O. Box 229,
Cramerview,
2060,
Johannesburg,
South Africa.



#6573 Tuboscocca

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:25

Yes, I went through heritagecars@icon.co.za, mind you that was a year ago.
Jeff.


I contacted Brian Tyler via the heritage address..
All ok --payment was difficult...NO paypal in ZA, no creditcards taken, cash not so good an idea..
Finally we came together..

The book is very interesting, especially that you won't find much on the subject elsewhere...

Regards Michael


#6574 Tuboscocca

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:40

The Bob Wollek biography is published.

http://www.editions-...fr,4,LMR014.cfm

Talking of new Endurance car books...

Porsche Kremer

New book on the history of the cars and drivers of the famous team...
http://www.rallyandr...tory-1962-2012/

Site has English service too.

Not to be confused with the earlier photobook on Kremer Racing

Regards Michael



#6575 Colbul1

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 13:49

I have just finished reading the revised 1997 edition of William F. Nolan's 'Yankee Champion' regarding the career of Phil Hill. I am most impressed with the fluidity of the story and the informality of the narrative matching a good blend of interview with Phil Hill and description of the races and events. After reading the book I can see the strong parallels with Michael Cannell's book 'The Limit: Life and Death in Formula One's Most Dangerous Era', published in 2011, following the 1961 season battle between Phil Hill and Wolfgang von Trips and it was clearly a major reference source for Cannell's book.

I am now looking forward to getting stuck into 'Inside The Paddock' which finally arrived from The Book Depository yesterday. I have so far only managed a glance over a few of the pages and already I am hugely impressed by the quality of the pictures and the text associated with them. I am sure many a happy hour over the Jubilee weekend will be spent marvelling at the transporters of yesteryear!

Colin

#6576 midgrid

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 20:00

Just a quick note

FORMULA 1 in camera 1970-79 VOLUME 2 by Paul Parker is on sale, i.e. abebooks..

Ordered mine already!!

Regards Michael


I just got my copy yesterday - the content, format and aim of this book is essentially identical to its predecessors in this series, but using photo archives other than Schlegelmilch (mostly LAT, with some others as well) has allowed it to cover the non-European races that he didn't attend. There is also more emphasis on the lesser-known drivers and entrants of the decade (although not at the expense of the more familiar figures), which makes it a worthwhile companion piece to the original volume. In the preface the author acknowledges that the two books are "just" pictoral overviews of each season, as an authoritative account would require a thousand pages or more - but perhaps the "...in Camera" series will soon reach this quota if it continues to be so popular! :smoking:


#6577 WhatOh

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:59

http://www.amazon.co...a/dp/0857332236

Came across this whilst reading the Times. Thought it may be of interest to some of you.

Happy Jubilee Weekend.
Agni

#6578 Doug Nye

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 14:59

I cannot find mention here of David Manton's intriguing new book 'Enzo Ferrari's Secret War', but if it hasn't yet been publicised here it really deserves to be. Haven't yet done more than scan it, but basically it's the story of The Old Man's extraordinary war, and of New Zealander Army officer Pat Hoare's extraordinary relationshio with him which led to Hoare's inside track upon securing Ferrari cars for racing down under. Good production for a soft-back printed to a price, including many poorly reproduced but exceptionally interesting pictures. Repro level is restricted due to use of badger's bum-rough paper...but I'd rather see this story published than not attempted as simply too expensive. I won't spoil the secrets David Manton appears to have uncovered, tough his style seems to be rather to dance around any conclusions, and largely just to present tantalising evidence which is often - but in by no means all cases - hearsay. Pat Hoare's role in saving the life of engineer Gioachino Colombo is stated, but without hard evidence - so far as I have as yet read - being demonstrated to back it up. Recommended purchase, in any case.

Bridgehampton Publishing LLC, St Heliers, Auckland 1740, NZ - ISBN 978-0-9834133-0-1

DCN

#6579 Tim Murray

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 16:08

First mentioned here about a year ago by some feller called Nye:

This could - and if it's good most certainly should - be a very significant piece of work...

Take a look at http://www.ferrarisecretwar.com/

I believe David Manton set out to research Kiwi Ferrari monoposto owner/driver Pat Hoare's racing - and things developed from there.

DCN

Many thanks for the review Doug. It's now on my 'to buy' list.

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#6580 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 17:03

David Cross of "Inside the Paddock ", recovering from an Aorta operation , is in for his 2nd big op , this against Cancer , the coming wednesday. If anyone wants to send him greetings , PM or mail me , and I'll do a collective greeeting to him.

Edited by Bjorn Kjer, 02 June 2012 - 17:04.


#6581 Tuboscocca

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 22:08

Ils ont fait Le Mans (they did Le Mans) by J.Charles Stasi

http://www.amazon.fr...h...4313&sr=8-1

New book on the participation of Rondeau, Courage and Pescarolo at Le Mans...

Price is astonishing cheap..

Best regards Michael

#6582 Tuboscocca

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 22:33

Update on the coming MONICA book:

http://www.editionsfilconducteur.com/

30 June 2012 they promise!!

Regards Michael

#6583 P0wderf1nger

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 22:16

Forgive me, gentlemen, this is going to be a long one.

You may recall me informing you that speedreaders had published my review of Michael Argetsinger’s Formula One at Watkins Glen. I also informed the 50th anniversary of the US GP at Watkins Glen thread, and have taken plenty of flack there since. I knew I was likely to upset people there, and it’s given me no pleasure to criticise an author of Michael Argetsinger’s stature, a publisher as vital to motor racing literature as David Bull, and a project that donated all proceeds to the International Motor Racing Research Center.

The review is offline now for a few days, pending its formal launch on Friday, and Duncan Rollo (D-Type) has suggested I post it here in full, so that a broader audience of motor racing book aficionados might consider it.

I know we tend to keep our posts short here, and I do recommend speedreaders to you for more detailed reviews of the books we bring to each other’s attention. It seems to get the odd criticism as well as praise on TNF, so I’ll make the same point I sometimes make when a book gets hammered here for typos.

Some TNFers are so articulate, so objective and so expert about the sport we love and about the books we love to read that they would be snapped up by speedreaders if they wished to write reviews, and by specialist publishers if they wished to edit books and / or create results tables and indexes.

The un-edited review follows in full.

Regards

Paul

Michael Argetsinger is the acclaimed biographer of racing drivers Walt Hansgsen and Mark Donohue, and the son of Cameron Argetsinger, who brought the US GP to Watkins Glen – who better to write the story of F1 at the upstate New York circuit? The publisher of both Argetsinger’s Donohue books was David Bull, without whom the book collections of most motor sport enthusiasts would be depleted. Here, author and publisher team up again, in pursuit of two worthy aims: to celebrate the 20 US GPs hosted at Watkins Glen, and to donate all of the proceeds from the book to the International Motor Racing Research Center, based just a few miles from the circuit. What could go wrong? Sadly, in terms of both concept and execution, a great deal.

The conceptual flaw is laid bare in Argetsinger’s acknowledgements. ‘I did not approach this book as the definitive history of the Formula One experience at Watkins Glen. It is principally a photographic record of those 20 years…’ This seems such a shame: no circuit has hosted more US GPs than Watkins Glen, the story deserves telling in detail, and Argetsinger is uniquely qualified to tell it, but this book very probably means no one else will try now.

So, what does this non-definitive account comprise? In his foreword, Mario Andretti recalls with affection his GP debut, when he put his Lotus 49 on pole for the 1968 US GP. Then Argetsinger lays out in an introduction the arrival of road racing in the area in 1948, and the creation of the Watkins Glen Grand Prix Corporation in 1953, and the original 2.3-mile circuit three years later.

There follow 21 chapters, the first dedicated to the Formula Libre races of 1958-1960, and the rest to each of the 20 GPs. Each chapter comprises a handful of paragraphs on the race (or, indeed, on the season, or on a development at the circuit or in the Corporation) and 10 or 12 photographs with detailed captions. A cohesive picture of a particular race emerges only slowly and in jerking fashion across text and photo-captions, and there are no starting grids, results tables, index or bibliography. Nor are there maps of either the original 2.3-mile track or the 3.4-mile version introduced in 1971. Indeed, for a much clearer picture of what happened in the first 17 Glen GPs, you would be better off reading Doug Nye’s The United States Grand Prix and Grand Prize Races 1908 – 1977 (Batsford, 1978).

To be fair, there are some fascinating pearls which will not be found in other books or in contemporary race reports. In 1964, when it emerged that the Indianapolis Raceway Park was lobbying ACCUS, the Automobile Competition Committee for the United States, to host the US GP, Cameron Argetsinger met the head of ACCUS at his New York club and outlined the costs of bringing the race to America each year. When asked if this information could be shared with ‘our friends in Indianapolis’ Cameron produced the envelope he had already prepared with this specific purpose in mind. With admirable understatement, his son concludes the story thus: ‘The men cordially completed their meeting. Soon after, IRP quietly withdrew its request for the Grand Prix.’ Argetsinger is also clear on the causes of Watkins Glen itself losing the race sixteen years later. It is, he says, ‘popular fiction’ to blame Bernie Ecclestone’s increased financial demands – indeed Ecclestone deferred settlement of the organiser’s fee for that final 1980 race until after the meeting and he never did collect it, even though the Grand Prix as an event was profitable to the end. Rather, it was the debt service created by the bond issue raised to pay for the track modifications of 1971 which killed the race and drove the GP Corporation into bankruptcy. Such insights are fascinating, but there is nothing like the consistent, detailed background that makes Chas Parker’s book on Brands Hatch [link] so illuminating.

Of course, none of this would matter if the book really does excel as a photographic record of the Glen’s GPs. Argetsinger certainly had enough images to choose from – 47,000! – and some of the pit-lane and garage shots are indeed excellent. The best was snapped by a fan in the Kendall Technical Center during testing the day after the 1973 Canadian Grand Prix. Jackie Stewart sits on the right rear wheel of his Tyrrell and looks up at team mate Francois Cevert and McLaren driver Denny Hulme. They are discussing Hulme’s team mate, Jody Scheckter, whom the Tyrrell drivers believe caused Cevert to crash violently the day before. The power of the picture lies in what happened next. Less than two weeks later, Cevert was killed in practice for the US GP and the Tyrrell team withdrew from the race, causing Stewart to miss what would have been his 100th and final GP. When the Grand Prix circus reconvened in Buenos Aires the following January, Scheckter would be at the wheel of a Tyrrell. It is one of the most haunting, most ‘picture-tells-a-thousand-words’ motor racing photographs I have ever seen.

But the action shots are, sadly, a different matter. For every strong image, like that of Jacky Ickx in the gorgeous Ferrari 312B on a damp track in 1970, or the very apt final photograph, of Tex Hopkins leaping high in the air, cigar clamped in mouth and chequered flag flourished aloft, there are far too many others which are poorly composed, cropped, focused or captioned. Among those 47,000 images, did Argetsinger find only one of Andretti’s 1969 drive in the four-wheel-drive Lotus 63? This photograph comprises two-thirds of empty track, then Mario in the Lotus away on the left, partly obscured by a tree. Ten pages earlier, we see Graham Hill and Chris Amon in the 1967 race. A wide expanse of grass takes up half the image. On the grass we see the back of an advertising hoarding and three photographers. The track and the two cars, one of which is partly obscured by a photographer’s hat, form a narrow ribbon across the centre of the image, and the rest is cluttered background. These sort of pictures, and those where photographers have failed to capture the whole of the lead car, remind me of a fan’s photo-album. They do not belong in a book of such importance, which has set the reader back $50.

Poor captioning is a further problem, and begins as early as the frontispiece, which depicts the start of the 1968 race. The bottom left hand corner is filled with the back of an out-of-focus head, and leaving the shot to the right are the rear wheel and wing of an unidentifiable car. At the centre of the image lie the McLarens of Hulme, Dan Gurney and Bruce himself, yet the caption is largely about Graham Hill. This makes no sense at all until a wider version of the photograph appears in the ‘68 chapter, where we learn that the wheel and wing are attached to Hill’s car. Who cropped the image for the frontispiece and kept the original caption? Who edited the book?

Worse comes in the 1978 chapter. Beneath a wonderful shot of Andretti in his championship-winning Lotus 79 is a pit-lane image of a Williams with its upper bodywork removed, and a second team car in the background. In the caption, Argetsinger explains that Alan Jones qualified third on the grid in his Williams FW06 and finished the race in second place, concluding that it is ‘the reserve car’ is the background. Now that is an accurate summary of the Williams team’s 1978 performance at the Glen, and they did indeed have a reserve car there that year, but the cars in the photograph are not FW06s and the year is not 1978. They are FW07s, the year is 1979, and the car in the background is the race car of Clay Regazzoni. Anyone wishing to do justice to the proud history of the US GP at Watkins Glen should surely know that a JPS-sponsored Lotus 79 and a Williams FW07 could not have taken part in the same race.

The nadir is reached seven pages later. Gilles Villeneuve is shown powering his Ferrari out of a left-hander chased by a Williams which, writes Argetsinger, is driven by Jones, though it is actually Regazzoni and, far worse, they should be leaving a right-hander – the image has been reversed. Think about that: someone scanned the slide or transparency the wrong way round, someone page-set the photograph the wrong way round, and someone edited that page, yet not one of them spotted the mirror-image white 12 on the wrong side of the red bodywork. This is not the David Bull Publishing we are used to.

The book also suffers in failing to use many distinctive images associated with Watkins Glen down the years. There is no picture of Jim Clark winning in 1966 with the Lotus 43, the only time BRM’s cumbersome H16 engine won a GP. There is an image of the engine, yet Clark’s only appearance in the chapter is restricted to his left eye, nose and mouth, on the extreme edge of an otherwise-excellent shot of Lotus boss Colin Chapman holding the victory bowl aloft. Two years later, Andretti’s duel with Stewart for the lead of his debut GP ended when he was slowed by his nose cone coming apart and his wing dragging on the track. It is an abiding image of the 1968 US GP, just as Eugene Lewis’ shots of Graham Hill’s accident are abiding images of the 1969 race, but none of them appear in this book. The story of the final US GP at Watkins Glen, when Bruno Giacomelli led early on in the bulbous Alfa Romeo but retired, and Jones came through to win from 12th place after running wide at the first corner and throwing up plumes of dust, is brilliantly captured by the Jeff Hutchinson image which adorned the cover of the following week’s Autosport. This is a Haymarket magazine and as such, the photograph may well reside in Haymarket’s LAT archive but, once again, it is not in the book.

And therein, perhaps, lies the cause of this book’s flaws. In deciding to devote every cent of the proceeds to the IMRRC, was there an obligation to minimise production costs? Was access to the major international photo archives ruled out? Were Bull’s best people on other projects? Was Argetsinger’s research and writing time restricted?

It pains me to be so negative about this book. Argetsinger and Bull are highly respected in the world of motor racing literature, and the book was published with a worthy cause in mind. But the stark truth is that this would be a flawed book even if these men’s high standards were not applied to it. Far better, surely, to have devoted more time to the project, spent more money on it, and given only a portion of the proceeds to the IMRRC – consider Michael Oliver’s excellent Tales from the Toolbox [link]: 40% of the royalties from it were donated to the Grand Prix Mechanics Charitable Trust. In this way, we might after all have enjoyed the definitive book on the US GP at Watkins Glen, the book that will now probably never be written.

Paul Kenny
May 2012
1,886 words

Formula One at Watkins Glen: 20 Years of the United States Grand Prix, 1961 - 1980
By Michael Argetsinger
Foreword by Mario Andretti
David Bull Publishing, 2011
160 pages, 91 black-and-white and 150 color photographs
ISBN: 978-1-935007-14-2
Price: $49.95




#6584 RA Historian

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 13:26

You know, I think that this has been flogged to death and should be put to rest. Paul, your reposting of your review really accomplished no purpose other than pouring more fuel onto the fire. Further, it may invite more borderline nasty responses, which I do not think benefits any of us at all. Let's just say the the majority of us on this thread like the book and consider it well done and meaningful. I include myself in that. Paul's negative review is definitely in the minority, it is his opinion and he is entitled to that. But continuing to throw bricks at each other accomplishes nothing.
Tom

#6585 Tuboscocca

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 15:03

Ils ont fait Le Mans (they did Le Mans) by J.Charles Stasi

http://www.amazon.fr...h...4313&sr=8-1

New book on the participation of Rondeau, Courage and Pescarolo at Le Mans...

Now I can tell more on this new book:

A nicely designed 22cmx22cm hardbound 128 pager.
The book contains (all in French) five minibiographies of Migault, Wollek, Rondeau, Courage and Pescarolo, who all participated many times at Le Mans, with varying success.
But the text is not restricted to the Le Mans participations alone. It is fully illustrated with colour photos mainly from the private collections of the drivers themselves.
All in all nicely done and good researched. Not the ultimate biography of each driver , of course...

Best regards Michael

#6586 ensign14

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 16:38

You know, I think that this has been flogged to death and should be put to rest. Paul, your reposting of your review really accomplished no purpose other than pouring more fuel onto the fire.

Or informed potential purchasers? I've only seen the book, I wasn't interested because it was too much picture and not enough text...

#6587 kayemod

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 17:09

Or informed potential purchasers? I've only seen the book, I wasn't interested because it was too much picture and not enough text...


A negative review can be just as useful as an enthusiastic one, as long as it's competently written and explains any criticism fairly and constructively.


#6588 red stick

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 19:17

You know, I think that this has been flogged to death and should be put to rest. Paul, your reposting of your review really accomplished no purpose other than pouring more fuel onto the fire. Further, it may invite more borderline nasty responses, which I do not think benefits any of us at all. Let's just say the the majority of us on this thread like the book and consider it well done and meaningful. I include myself in that. Paul's negative review is definitely in the minority, it is his opinion and he is entitled to that. But continuing to throw bricks at each other accomplishes nothing.
Tom

I find this approach troubling. It's a book review. Far from brick throwing, it's clear in its premises, cogently argued, and plausibly maintained with a series of representative examples. How persuasive it is, well, that's a matter of personal opinion. But the number of persons who seek to silence its author (Consider the glee in the WG thread when it briefly, and erroneously, appeared yesterday that it had been pulled from Speedreaders, for example) I find breathtaking. Is this a discussion board or an echo chamber?


#6589 jj2728

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 19:21

I just got my copy yesterday - the content, format and aim of this book is essentially identical to its predecessors in this series, but using photo archives other than Schlegelmilch (mostly LAT, with some others as well) has allowed it to cover the non-European races that he didn't attend. There is also more emphasis on the lesser-known drivers and entrants of the decade (although not at the expense of the more familiar figures), which makes it a worthwhile companion piece to the original volume. In the preface the author acknowledges that the two books are "just" pictoral overviews of each season, as an authoritative account would require a thousand pages or more - but perhaps the "...in Camera" series will soon reach this quota if it continues to be so popular! :smoking:


It is a must have companion piece to the original volume. I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far.

#6590 Frank S

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 20:05

You know, I think that this has been flogged to death and should be put to rest. Paul, your reposting of your review really accomplished no purpose other than pouring more fuel onto the fire. Further, it may invite more borderline nasty responses, which I do not think benefits any of us at all. Let's just say the the majority of us on this thread like the book and consider it well done and meaningful. I include myself in that. Paul's negative review is definitely in the minority, it is his opinion and he is entitled to that. But continuing to throw bricks at each other accomplishes nothing.
Tom

Every participant in every forum fulfills a rôle as s/he sees fit. I'm a little hesitant to accept "majority" (half plus one, right?) referring to uncountable populations of readers and writers; even if it were supported by careful surveys, So What? Minority or majority, we don't need no stinking badges to have and post opinions.


#6591 RA Historian

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 21:12

I believe that the two or three replies to my previous post missed the point. I distinctly said "Paul's negative review is definitely in the minority, it is his opinion and he is entitled to that. " certainly is not an attempt to stifle dissent. Further, the reference I made to 'brick throwing' was not at all limited to one side of the debate, as there have been harsh words on both sides. My overall point is that both sides have made their points, lets move on.

(Didn't realize that trying to soothe matters was going to get me a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.)

Tom

#6592 red stick

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 21:25

I believe that the two or three replies to my previous post missed the point. I distinctly said "Paul's negative review is definitely in the minority, it is his opinion and he is entitled to that. " certainly is not an attempt to stifle dissent. Further, the reference I made to 'brick throwing' was not at all limited to one side of the debate, as there have been harsh words on both sides. My overall point is that both sides have made their points, lets move on.

(Didn't realize that trying to soothe matters was going to get me a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.)

Tom

My apologies if I misunderstood, but standing up for a man's right to his opinion while suggesting that an issue should be put to rest, that further discussion accomplishes nothing, and suggesting that we all just move on, sure seems like stifling dissent to me. In other words, he's entitled to his opinion, now let's all please just stop talking about it. See the problem?


#6593 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 23:15

I appreciate Paul posting his review here and see nothing wrong with that. That he should be criticized for his opinion of the book (or any book) is something that a reviewer opens himself up to, but I don't understand the compulsion to make it personal. I think there's a certain sensitivity to Michael's being (or having been) a member here. That shoudn't be the case. Frankly, I find that his research skills far exceed his writing ability, but that hasn't stopped my buying his books. However, when the types of editing and publishing issues that Paul rightly mentions are present, well, I'm just not going to spend my money for that.

Jack

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 06 June 2012 - 23:38.


#6594 B Squared

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:55

Yes. Let’s move on. But first let’s bring a little perspective to this discussion.

Any critic has a right to his or her view. I don’t think many people would want it any other way. What is missing here is balance. One reader has presented an opinion that the Formula One at Watkins Glen book falls short in a couple of particulars that resonate strongly with him. Fair enough. Numerous other people – from magazines both British and American to websites to major newspapers including the New York Times – have given the book overwhelmingly positive reviews. The Motor Press Guild and the Independent Publishers have identified the book as a finalist in their annual awards and it actually received a Gold Medal from the latter organization. Little or none of this has been reported on this thread. The focus here on the one bad review has distorted the picture and caused more than one person to suggest that they will give the book a pass. I suggest those individuals may want to expand their sights in terms of reviews and opinions.

My personal opinion is that it is an excellent book – beautifully presented – that brought back the feeling and excitement of those years while providing detail and insight not found elsewhere. Those who think there is not enough text to satisfy their standards are missing something special here. Each chapter is packed with information – much of it to be found in the photo captions which are really excellent and detailed. I also think the design is striking and handsome as is the norm in a David Bull Publishing book. That is how I see the book and I recommend it as a great read and for its historical insight.


#6595 VWV

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 13:01

Yes. Let’s move on. But first let’s bring a little perspective to this discussion.

Any critic has a right to his or her view. I don’t think many people would want it any other way. What is missing here is balance. One reader has presented an opinion that the Formula One at Watkins Glen book falls short in a couple of particulars that resonate strongly with him. Fair enough. Numerous other people – from magazines both British and American to websites to major newspapers including the New York Times – have given the book overwhelmingly positive reviews. The Motor Press Guild and the Independent Publishers have identified the book as a finalist in their annual awards and it actually received a Gold Medal from the latter organization. Little or none of this has been reported on this thread. The focus here on the one bad review has distorted the picture and caused more than one person to suggest that they will give the book a pass. I suggest those individuals may want to expand their sights in terms of reviews and opinions.

My personal opinion is that it is an excellent book – beautifully presented – that brought back the feeling and excitement of those years while providing detail and insight not found elsewhere. Those who think there is not enough text to satisfy their standards are missing something special here. Each chapter is packed with information – much of it to be found in the photo captions which are really excellent and detailed. I also think the design is striking and handsome as is the norm in a David Bull Publishing book. That is how I see the book and I recommend it as a great read and for its historical insight.


I really support Paul's right to his opinion of the book or anyone elses opinion, after all it is an opinion. Reviews of any kind that I read, I expect the reviewer to focus on the object being reviewed.

What got my goat is how the original review ignored publicly stated facts on what the purpose or content of the book was to be and the extreamely short gestation period of the books creation. Michael did not have the time he had in his Mark Donohue books and was working on another project that had to be pushed aside when working on the Wakins Glen book. Perhaps if the book was sub-titled Watkins Glen, A Celebration of 20 years Formula 1 Racing it would have been more clear to one and all. The way Paul wrote his review it was clearly obvious he wanted or hoped for something else, a difinitive bible of racing at Watkins Glen. I agree totally with Paul that this type book on Watkins Glen needs to be done and should be done. That was not the intent or mandate at this time. Bottom line it was Paul's psuedo review of a book that did not exist and not a proper review of a book that does exist and well liked by many other reviews that I disagreed with and I found issue with. I have absolutely No issue with anyone expressing an opinion but I would hope that it was an honest, thoughtful opinion, not a bunch of whinging. I have somewhere around 300 racing books in my library, I have frequently thought that the author missed covered this or that but overall my opinion is based on what is actually on pages, not what could have been. There is always room for another book, which brings another issue I had with Paul's orignal review. He stated in his review that he thought a actual Watkins Glen book of the type he wanted to see may never be written! What an idiotic thing to say. That was the final nail in the coffin in forming my opinion of Paul and how objective he can be.

The other bee that got into my hat was at the Speedreaders review page under the previous link, Don Capps wrote a rebuttal to Paul's book review (for the record, I agree 100% with what Don wrote). Paul's reply to what Don wrote, in my opinion what a total farce and clearly shows who is being a child, who is trying to be heard.

The final issue I had was Paul's opinion of the state of the book industry in general which I do not agree with.

This is my final word on the this subject. I hope you all understand that my anger towards the original review was not that it was a negative review but how stupid (in my opinion) it was.


#6596 red stick

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 19:50

I really support Paul's right to his opinion of the book or anyone elses opinion, after all it is an opinion. Reviews of any kind that I read, I expect the reviewer to focus on the object being reviewed.

What got my goat is how the original review ignored publicly stated facts on what the purpose or content of the book was to be and the extremely short gestation period of the books creation. Michael did not have the time he had in his Mark Donohue books and was working on another project that had to be pushed aside when working on the Watkins Glen book. Perhaps if the book was sub-titled Watkins Glen, A Celebration of 20 years Formula 1 Racing it would have been more clear to one and all. The way Paul wrote his review it was clearly obvious he wanted or hoped for something else, a definitive bible of racing at Watkins Glen. I agree totally with Paul that this type book on Watkins Glen needs to be done and should be done. That was not the intent or mandate at this time. Bottom line it was Paul's psuedo review of a book that did not exist and not a proper review of a book that does exist and well liked by many other reviews that I disagreed with and I found issue with. I have absolutely No issue with anyone expressing an opinion but I would hope that it was an honest, thoughtful opinion, not a bunch of whinging. I have somewhere around 300 racing books in my library, I have frequently thought that the author missed covered this or that but overall my opinion is based on what is actually on pages, not what could have been.

I think you raise a fair point, but critiquing "the book that might have been" is such a staple of the book review genre that its use here really didn't concern me. Opinions vary, obviously.  ;)

There is always room for another book, which brings another issue I had with Paul's orignal review. He stated in his review that he thought a actual Watkins Glen book of the type he wanted to see may never be written! What an idiotic thing to say. That was the final nail in the coffin in forming my opinion of Paul and how objective he can be.


This I'm not so confident about, although I realize Don Capps shared this view in his Speedreaders rebuttal. I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the publishing game, but I know that Mr. Argetsinger and Mr. Kenny are both published authors, and may have better insight into the subject. And it's at least conceivable that a book about Watkins Glen, by an Argetsinger no less, may "crowd the field" for awhile. Consider this, from post #256 in 2003 in this very thread, concerning a question about whether Michael Oliver would publish a book about the Lotus 78/79 etc. to join his excellent books covering the 49 and 72.

My current 'work in progress' is a book about the Lotus wing cars but a certain J. Tipler has rather pulled the rug from under me with his Lotus 78/79 book :\ Any comments about whether there is room for another book on the subject in the vein of the 49/72 volumes would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Michael Oliver


I don't know what factors intervened that have resulted in an Oliver book on the wing cars not being published. Maybe he lost interest in the topic. Maybe the Tipler book did preclude any publisher interest. But if Michael Oliver was concerned about the issue, it strikes me that terming Paul's view "idiotic" may be overstating the case. As a practical matter, do we know of any works in progress on the history of Formula One at Watkins Glen?

Edited by red stick, 07 June 2012 - 19:59.


#6597 Tuboscocca

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 14:02

Fast,Faster, Fastest Joakim BONNIER

http://www.albertbon...n=9789100130312

Apparently a reprint of an older, to me unknown, Bonnier Biography..

In Swedish...

Regards Michael

#6598 red stick

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 14:32

As an early Father's Day gift I received a copy of Carroll Shelby: The Authorized Biography, by Rinsey Mills. It's the kind of doorstop-sized biography usually reserved for political or military leaders; despite the Amazon description listing 464 pages, mine runs to 552 pages including index. Shelby's early life and the last 40 years or so are dispatched with fairly quickly, leaving 450 pages or so devoted to what we really care about--his exploits in the 50s and 60s. I can't say I'm that deeply into it, but one cause of concern is that it seems to be pieced together largely from interviews and reminiscences of the participants, rather than cross-checked against the rather extensive literature available on the Cobra and Ford's racing adventures in the 60s. I understand that Mills has written on the Cobra before, and I'm enjoying the stories, which are told in rather workmanlike prose, but is anyone else reading the book who can comment on the accuracy of the tale?

#6599 red stick

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 15:11

Michael Oliver explained it here: http://forums.autosp...;hl=Lotus 78/79

We are talking about niche books, for a limited market of enthusiasts.

I really hope he will eventually write the book. I have no doubt it will set the standard, much like the Lotus 72 book did.

Thanks for the update--I recalled the earlier discussion, because having the books on the 49 and 72 I too would love to see an Oliver book on the 78/79, but not the later one.



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#6600 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 16:27

Has the title Back On Track, Racing in the 40s, annouced in the link below ever been published?

http://forums.autosp...a...st&p=804046

I have been looking for the title here at TNF and on the rest of the net, but found nothing. It sounds interesting though!

Jesper