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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#6651 ryan86

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 19:25

I have to say, and with the greatest respect to the authors on this forum, many of whose books adorn my shelves, I don't believe any book is worth that amount of money. Of course we all like to dispense of our cash in various ways, but I can barely imagine spending £100 on a book, let alone almost a £1000. Whilst I agree with you about the logarithms, some of the sellers on Amazon etc I think just don't want to sell anything. I buy some DVD's from America, usually American TV shows that haven't been released in the UK and at the bottom there always seems to be the same seller that for whatever reason is pricing his copies X5 whatever anyone else is selling it as.

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#6652 E.B.

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 20:32

:clap: One for the Christmas list.


That's so kind of you, but after reading the glowing review in Classic & Sports Car, I'm not sure I'll be able to wait that long.


#6653 helioseism

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 22:49

Three new books listed at Autonet Carbooks:

Meine Brüder und ich l Alexander von Falkenhausen und seine Formel-2 AFM Rennwagen

JACKY ICKX by Pierre van Vliet (in English)

CHICANE l Belgische helden in de Formule 1

#6654 Geza Sury

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 18:49

Three new books listed at Autonet Carbooks:

Meine Brüder und ich l Alexander von Falkenhausen und seine Formel-2 AFM Rennwagen

JACKY ICKX by Pierre van Vliet (in English)

CHICANE l Belgische helden in de Formule 1

I was delighted to hear that finally someone published a Jacky Ickx bio in English, until I found this: http://www.jackyickxbook.com/. First, I'm not prepared to pay 1000 Euro for any kind of book, second I would have liked to read a detailed biography about the carrier of Ickx, but I'm afraid the new book is just collection of pictures. So I still have to wait for a definate biography.

Talking about biographies: if you haven't bought the new Tony Brooks book, "Poetry in Motion", do it NOW! It's very detailed, well written, funny, the pictures are excellent, etc. It must be one of the best motor racing volumes I've ever read.

#6655 helioseism

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 18:55

I was delighted to hear that finally someone published a Jacky Ickx bio in English, until I found this: http://www.jackyickxbook.com/. First, I'm not prepared to pay 1000 Euro for any kind of book, second I would have liked to read a detailed biography about the carrier of Ickx, but I'm afraid the new book is just collection of pictures. So I still have to wait for a definate biography.


There is also an English edition for 45 Euros.


#6656 Geza Sury

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:30

There is also an English edition for 45 Euros.

Oh I see, thank you. I wonder if it's a proper biography or a picture book?

#6657 Alan Cox

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:42

I buy some DVD's from America, usually American TV shows that haven't been released in the UK and at the bottom there always seems to be the same seller that for whatever reason is pricing his copies X5 whatever anyone else is selling it as.

Sounds like the bookseller on Amazon.co.uk, based in a seaside town which boasts a pier on the Essex coast. There also seem to be regular US vendors offering books at eight or ten times the price of comparable copies available elsewhere. Do they stock the books they are advertising because I note on the feedback for the Essex trader saying that the books some purchasers received had been dispatched from another source?

#6658 ryan86

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 18:26

What I've read some sellers do is that they don't actually have the book in stock, but will try and pass off as some sort of well-meaning family firm and a personal touch instead of "WeSellMillionsofBookEachDay.co.uk" and the like. So they lure you into buying from them at a premium at which point they then buy the book from a cheaper seller, get them to send the book to you and they pocket the difference.

http://www.michaelei...org/blog/?p=358

This guys blog piece about how a book ending up worth $23million, using algorithms and because one company probably didn't have the book, but would buy it from the other.

Edited by ryan86, 15 July 2012 - 18:27.


#6659 Tuboscocca

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 20:41

There is also an English edition for 45 Euros.



The van Vliet book is another book, as the Chopard sponsored (10 bottle-item!!)..

Reminds me of religious books with a fiole of some ashes of a Holy person...

But the good thing it's bound in rubber..you can throw it at your favourite wall...

Michael

Edited by Tuboscocca, 15 July 2012 - 20:42.


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#6660 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 14:33

Updated Books that never were with NEW additions.

Books that never were - These books were probably never published, and likely never will be:
Updated 09-Apr-2012

"Red Mist" by Nigel Stepney. To have been published in 2008. ISBN 0955662249.

Now apparently revived and scheduled in time for Christmas 2012:

Nigel Stepney's almost certainly highly controversial account of the Formula One 'spygate' scandal looks set to be published late this year.

In the wake of the sacked and disgraced former Ferrari engineer's plans a few years ago to release an explosive autobiography, the publisher pulled out.

It was rumoured at the time that Ferrari requested the book be withdrawn.

Stepney confirmed that his former publisher had been "put under pressure" by an unnamed party.

But he vowed to press on with his account of what happened amid the famous espionage scandal involving McLaren and Mike Coughlan back in 2007.

An official book description at Amazon said 'Red Mist' will include "an in-depth and honest account of the recent Formula 1 'Stepneygate' saga in his own words."

The German language Speed Week said it should hit the shelves in time for Christmas.

http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157

As it says "former publisher" presumably the ISBN is no longer valid, but I can't trace any other details.

#6661 Tuboscocca

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 15:10

Forthcoming book on

Porsche 917-021


http://www.917-021.com/index.html

Nice videos on restauration and roll-out, plus historic film-material...

Car was present and raced on Le Mans Classic 2012

regards Micheal

#6662 Julian Roberts

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:47

Anyone interested in BMW M1 The Story by Jochen Neerpasch and Jurgen Lewandowski, I've found English language copies available from the BMW Museum Shop, for €44 plus €18 shipping to UK.

Considerably cheaper than any I've seen on Ebay or Abe Books.

#6663 Tuboscocca

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 19:46

More exotic stuff from me:


12 Heures d'Hyères 1951-55

http://www.editions-...,4,buson001.cfm

Local race, international participation, photos...


Regards Michael

#6664 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 21:26

This may not be news to some here, but Horton's web site is now open.

http://www.hortonsbooks.co.uk

Jack

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 26 July 2012 - 21:27.


#6665 Tuboscocca

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:40

This may not be news to some here, but Horton's web site is now open.

http://www.hortonsbooks.co.uk

Jack

Thank you Jack:

FINEST selection--stiffest prices...

Regards Michael

#6666 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 09:27

Has any of you bought any of the HALLO FAHRERLAGER (Rainer Braun) books ?

#6667 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 15:27

Yes- I have Vol 1+ 2.
Highly recommended (if you can read German, of course).
Especially if you know a bit about German racing, the old Rennsportmeisterschaft etc.
Very funny and highly entertainig stories !



#6668 Tuboscocca

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 16:45

Yes- I have Vol 1+ 2.
Highly recommended (if you can read German, of course).
Especially if you know a bit about German racing, the old Rennsportmeisterschaft etc.
Very funny and highly entertainig stories !


Volume 1 is out of print (reprint soon by petrolpics), Volume 2 and three should be easy..
As Ralf said funny tales..Best one ,still, Präsident Heinemann (long ago German's president) driven around the Old Nürburgring in the snow in an Porsche 917 by Willy Kauhsen..
Security members had some offs ,due to weather condition...

HIGHLY recommended... Rainer Braun is really a very good journalist and TV-commentator (still doing Le Mans for German Eurosport some years ago) and young driver trainer in presentation, speech etc.

Regards Michael

Edited by Tuboscocca, 27 July 2012 - 16:46.


#6669 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 16:52

And, of course - a leading protagonist of the early Renault 5 Cup - very entertaining he has been there, too !!

#6670 Tuboscocca

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 16:56

And, of course - a leading protagonist of the early Renault 5 Cup - very entertaining he has been there, too !!

Now he is retired, but his daughter Maren made a career too in TV--some German Sports TV channels, then F1-pitlane -commentator (now defunct Premiere) and now on Servus TV (Red Bull's own TV-channel)

Regards Michael

#6671 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 17:24

"A passion for motor sport" by Denis Jenkinson , anyone have it and will scan page 123-126 for me , please ?

Bjørn

#6672 D-Type

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 18:37

"A passion for motor sport" by Denis Jenkinson , anyone have it and will scan page 123-126 for me , please ?

Bjørn

I have the book, but I'm afraid I don't have a scanner or access to one.

If anybody does scan those pages for Bjorn, I suggest they also scan pages 58 to 61.

Edited by D-Type, 29 July 2012 - 19:05.


#6673 Tim Murray

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 19:55

I've scanned the Verona story and mailed it to Bjørn. (I've also asked if he'd like the Tony Robinson story).

#6674 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:38

And he really appreciates that , and would like the Halford story to see if it is the same as in "Tales from the Toolbox" by Michael Oliver .

#6675 motorbookworm

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:05

This may not be news to some here, but Horton's web site is now open.

http://www.hortonsbooks.co.uk

Jack

Their reputation for excessive prices has more than been borne out by the website. Given the fact that their prices can now be seen by everyone and very easily compared with other website you can only wonder who buys this?

I never have the courage to go on to their stand when I see them at shows as I find their set up rather intimidating...back in the days of Collectors Carbooks I always found their rarer items to be relatively good value, it was the run-of-the-mill items that were pricey.

I haven't had time to go through the entire site, but there's not much I've seen so far that makes me drool. Still, with a price of £1200 for a 1st edition Immortal 2.9 (£400-£500 elsewhere and plenty about), it's probably just as well!

#6676 Vitesse2

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:10

The thing about Hortons is that they cater primarily to that peculiar breed the book collector, not the book user - or even the book reader. If what you want is to build a library to impress your friends, then it's the place to go. But if you want a book you can use and read again and again - and don't mind that it isn't pristine - then it's the bookseller of last resort.

To be fair, their stock is always immaculately kept and presented - not a scuffed dust jacket in sight. But they are both intimidating and (generally) overpriced. The only things I've ever bought from them were two out of print Sheldon Black Books: pristine when purchased, to the point that one hadn't even been opened. Both are less so now ;)

One title I spotted on the website was Eyston's "Safety Last". Certainly rare - but two hundred quid? :eek: Interesting also to see that Schumacher Ferrari-era Autocourses are generally priced higher than those immediately before - presumably reflecting lower initial sales. That apparently makes the unread 2000-1 one I picked up for £1.99 in a charity shop even more of a bargain! :lol: Not to mention the perfect copy of Simon Taylor's Shelsley book I got for a fiver on Fleabay ...

#6677 kayemod

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:34

Their reputation for excessive prices has more than been borne out by the website.


Going by the prices on Horton's site, the Autocourse shelf in my bookcase is supporting almost £4000 worth of the things.


#6678 motorbookworm

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:50

Their reputation for excessive prices has more than been borne out by the website. Given the fact that their prices can now be seen by everyone and very easily compared with other website you can only wonder who buys this?

I never have the courage to go on to their stand when I see them at shows as I find their set up rather intimidating...back in the days of Collectors Carbooks I always found their rarer items to be relatively good value, it was the run-of-the-mill items that were pricey.

I haven't had time to go through the entire site, but there's not much I've seen so far that makes me drool. Still, with a price of £1200 for a 1st edition Immortal 2.9 (£400-£500 elsewhere and plenty about), it's probably just as well!

They are all immaculate - some people even think that the 30 or 40 year old out-of-print books are new, simply because they're shrinkwrapped.

Hortons have their own shrinkwrapping machine, so all it not quite what it seems to some.

#6679 D-Type

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 17:28

Going by the prices on Horton's site, the Autocourse shelf in my bookcase is supporting almost £4000 worth of the things.

Now look at prices on Abebooks or Amazon and the deams of holidays in exotic places (or being able to afford a ticket for the Grand Prix!) evaporate. :cry:

On a brighter note, while waiting at the hospital for my wife to have some minor day surgery I was browsing the "friends' " bookstall and found a copy of Alex Zanardi's autobiography for £1 - less than the petrol to visit the library! :cool:
It's always worth looking at charity shops and boot fairs - although I've not found any real treasures I've found a few "good reads".

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#6680 continental

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 18:45

[quote name='Vitesse2' date='Jul 30 2012, 12:10' post='5857531']
The thing about Hortons is that they cater primarily to that peculiar breed the book collector, not the book user - or even the book reader. If what you want is to build a library to impress your friends, then it's the place to go.

I don't agree. Hortons operate like a boutique in a mass market. They're able to distinguish themselves by carrying a stock that I haven't found elsewhere. They may be pricey, but only for exclusive merchandise. And what makes you think that their customers don't read?


#6681 ensign14

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 18:55

Yeah, they're good on non-English books and privately published.

#6682 PRD

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 19:00

The thing about Hortons is that they cater primarily to that peculiar breed the book collector, not the book user - or even the book reader. If what you want is to build a library to impress your friends, then it's the place to go. But if you want a book you can use and read again and again - and don't mind that it isn't pristine - then it's the bookseller of last resort.

To be fair, their stock is always immaculately kept and presented - not a scuffed dust jacket in sight. But they are both intimidating and (generally) overpriced..


They're a bit snooty as well, although less so now the son is running it.

They do take the mick on Euro prices though- I bought the three volume ACO Le Mans books from Motors Media in Pau delivered to my door for rather less than Hortons wanted at Race Retro a couple of years back

#6683 dwh43scale

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 20:15

They're a bit snooty as well, although less so now the son is running it.

They do take the mick on Euro prices though- I bought the three volume ACO Le Mans books from Motors Media in Pau delivered to my door for rather less than Hortons wanted at Race Retro a couple of years back


Never used them, find their prices top end. Others are clearly happy to buy from them.

Let the market decide.



#6684 karlcars

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 09:40

With Bentley readying the launch of my new book on the origins of the Porsche 356 in mid-August, TNFers may be interested in this capsule summary of some of the book's findings.

Revelations in Porsche — Origin of the Species

Think that the first sports cars designed by Porsche in the 1930s were at the cutting edge of aerodynamics?

In fact the French and Italians were far ahead of Porsche in their use of the most streamlined body forms.

Think that the mid-engined Grand Prix cars that Porsche designed for Auto Union were its only racing-car creations for that company?

Porsche designed a sports-car version of the Auto Union, the Type 52, that would have made a formidable road and racing car. A five-passenger version was even planned.

Think that the dispersal to rural Austria of the Porsche engineers in 1944 was forced by Albert Speer over the objections of Ferdinand Porsche?

At the last minute Speer changed his mind, barring the Porsche move. Ferdinand Porsche interceded with Speer and got his approval for the move plus 80,000 marks to help cover the cost.

Think that the ideas that underpinned creation of the 356 took form during the war when Porsche’s designers were thought to be safe at Gmünd in Austria?

The bloodlines of the 356 reach back well into the mid-1930s when Porsche’s Erwin Komenda began designing sports versions of the Volkswagen-to-be.

Think that Piero Dusio was the key man in the post-war decision to commission the Porsche engineers to design a new Formula 1 car?

The initial plan was actually for a car to be designed to meet the ambitions and needs of ace driver Tazio Nuvolari, who found nothing available that suited his talents. Dusio only came into the frame during a search for funding for the project. Tazio later remained in touch with Gmünd about a possible sports-car design.

Think that the Type 360 Grand Prix car was the only project the Porsche team worked on for Dusio’s Cisitalia?

In fact the contract also covered a small tractor, a water turbine and a sports car, the Type 370. This was designed as an eight-cylinder two-liter, in two road-car versions having its engine behind the rear wheels. Work continued on it well into 1948.

Think that the Swiss involvement with the Porsches at Gmünd began with their sports-car project?

Relations with Swiss entrepreneurs started in 1946 with a commissioning of the Porsche men to design a new 1½-liter family car to be produced in Switzerland, the Type 352. Designs were prepared for two versions, front-engined and rear-engined, the latter with air-cooled engines of either four or eight cylinders.

Think the Porsche people in Austria created the first 356 so that they could have a “Porsche” car to produce?

The first 356 was created as a “VW Sports”, a car that the Porsche men hoped would lead to a closer connection with the VW works and perhaps be produced by them.

Think that the 356 was pretty much Ferry Porsche’s project and that his father had little to do with it?

Prof. Ferdinand Porsche was very much involved. He had lengthy meetings with Karl Rabe about the designs of both the roadster and the coupe and test-drove the prototypes.

Think that the open mid-engined Type 356 was completed and tested well before the first 356/2 coupe was built and run?

Although work on the open car started half a year earlier, the two versions almost dead-heated. The roadster was registered for the road on June 8, 1948 and the coupe registered on July 13th.

Think that the 356 roadster’s rear suspension, with its torsion bars at the rear and forward-facing radius arms, gave it vile handling characteristics?

Without exception those who drove the 356 rated its handling as first-class, thanks to the car’s other design features. With its VW-like layout the 356/2 coupe naturally reverted to trailing radius arms.

Think that the first success in competition of the ‘Porsche’ brand was on July 11, 1948 when Herbert Kaes won a race at Innsbrück with the original mid-engined open 356?

In fact the appearance of the Porsche at Innsbrück was in demonstration laps only, between races. It didn’t compete in any races that day or on any day while still in the hands of Porsche.

Think that Porsche decided to change from the tubular space frame of the 356 roadster to the platform frame of the production cars because it would be easier and less costly to produce?

The tubular frame was viewed by Ferry Porsche as the cheaper alternative for a small production run, but Erwin Komenda persuaded Ferry and Rabe to accept the greater effort and cost of a platform frame with the future of the project in mind. This was to prove a crucial decision for the team. Karl Rabe made important contributions to the frame’s ingenious design.

Think that the 356 frame design created in Austria was greatly improved when the car was finally reengineered for volume production in Zuffenhausen?

It was one of the greatest regrets of both Ferry and Komenda that the Zuffenhausen platform turned out to be much more compromised than the original. The latter’s greater stiffness was one of the main reasons why Porsche used the Austrian-built cars for racing.

Think that the Austrians were thrilled to have the Porsches, father and son, back in their nation after the war, men who had done so much for their motor industry?

Regarded as “German” after their more than a decade in Stuttgart, the Porsches were welcomed by Austrian enthusiasts but shunned by the establishment, which shrugged off all their efforts to get funding and support. Ultimately they had no option but to return to Germany.

Think that the 50-plus Austrian cars were all manufactured at Gmünd?

Only the first roadster and the first coupe were completely produced to a finished standard at Gmünd. Porsche relied on various subcontractors, including the Salzburg works of Anton and Louise Piëch and the Viennese branch of Tatra, to complete and trim all the other cars from panels made at Gmünd.

Think that Swiss customers accounted for the bulk of the sales of the cars produced in Austria?

Far from it. In spite of price reductions the Swiss demand dried up very early. By far the chief customer for the Austrian Porsches was the Swedish importer, Scania-Vabis, the truck maker that also imported Volkswagens.



#6685 Tuboscocca

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:29

.....I never have the courage to go on to their stand when I see them at shows as I find their set up rather intimidating...

Motorbookworm--absolutely. They have a castle-like stand with one entrance...Once in you find the out-of-print books all shrinked-wrapped. So if you are interested, you ought to ask for opening...never asked...

The only open books are the new one's, but these are available everywhere...

My favourite in the on-line catalogue is the Shelby edition of the CobraCoupe --a cool 3950.- GBP


Best regards Michael

#6686 Ren de Boer

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:51

Karlcars, thank you for the summary! All of them interesting topics, so your book certainly will be on my shopping list very soon. Looking forward to it!

Just one little detail: the name of the city of Innsbruck doesn't have an 'umlaut' on the 'u', it is 'Innsbruck', rather than 'Innsbrück'.

#6687 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 18:48

Mr. Ludvigsen,

Thank you for your post. Do I correctly infer that all of that is previously unpublished information?

Jack

#6688 jaytee

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:31

Does anyone know if there has been any books on the history of Lydden Hill and also John Judd

#6689 Tim Murray

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 16:17

Veloce are advertising the forthcoming biography of Tony Robinson, which they say will be out this month:

http://www.veloce.co...d...Motorsport

#6690 D-Type

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 19:18

And it's affordable!

#6691 Mark Godfrey

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 19:37

Regarding Horton's, consider viewing them from different angle -- they have a reputation for Paying top prices for out-of-print books & collections.

Mark
- - -

#6692 karlcars

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:17

Thanks for your thanks, Jack.

It would be fair to say that this is all unpublished information and interpretation, based on fresh researches into the origins of the 356. For the first time Porsche's efforts are placed in perspective with their times and the activities of their rivals.

The 'peg' for the book is Jerry Seinfeld's highly original early 356 coupe, which is well documented and pictured by Michael Furman in the book.

#6693 motorbookworm

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:27

And it's affordable!

Au contraire..I've found Hortons offer the same (or sometimes less) than others when offered items, even top end ones. I've approached them before on the basis that if a dealer's going to pay 30-50% of resale, then you should start with the most expensive one! Not so unfortunately.

I think they're best used as a resource for seeing what's available - especially on smaller and overseas publishers - and then researching the internet to find it cheaper. I appreciate it's not exactly fair, but if Hortons were more realistic in the first place I'd be happy to buy from them. Ironically, by having their own website, they've made this rather easier than having to wait until the next show or race meeting...

#6694 Tuboscocca

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 13:56

Au contraire..I've found Hortons offer the same (or sometimes less) than others when offered items, even top end ones. I've approached them before on the basis that if a dealer's going to pay 30-50% of resale, then you should start with the most expensive one! Not so unfortunately.

I think they're best used as a resource for seeing what's available - especially on smaller and overseas publishers - and then researching the internet to find it cheaper. I appreciate it's not exactly fair, but if Hortons were more realistic in the first place I'd be happy to buy from them. Ironically, by having their own website, they've made this rather easier than having to wait until the next show or race meeting...



All accepted!!

but as far as I understand it the AFFORDABLE was meant for the Tony Robinson book???

Michael

#6695 Tuboscocca

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 13:57

Has anyone seen already the

IAN WALKER book from Coterie's??

http://www.coteriepr...Latest-Products

They do as it is already on the market??

Regards Michael

#6696 helioseism

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 14:22

Has anyone seen already the

IAN WALKER book from Coterie's??

http://www.coteriepr...Latest-Products

They do as it is already on the market??

Regards Michael


When I ordered it in June I received a message from Coterie that it was is expected to be released in July 2012. It has not yet arrived here in the US.

#6697 motorbookworm

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 17:28

All accepted!!

but as far as I understand it the AFFORDABLE was meant for the Tony Robinson book???

Michael

Yes, sorry, hit wrong button!

#6698 Tuboscocca

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 21:00

Yes, sorry, hit wrong button!



Never mind!!!

Michael

#6699 Tuboscocca

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 21:01

When I ordered it in June I received a message from Coterie that it was is expected to be released in July 2012. It has not yet arrived here in the US.



Thank you, hope you get it and SOON!!

Michael

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#6700 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:10

Thanks for your thanks, Jack.

It would be fair to say that this is all unpublished information and interpretation, based on fresh researches into the origins of the 356. For the first time Porsche's efforts are placed in perspective with their times and the activities of their rivals.

The 'peg' for the book is Jerry Seinfeld's highly original early 356 coupe, which is well documented and pictured by Michael Furman in the book.



That's pretty remarkable considering all the volumes (including your own honored work) devoted to Porsche history. One would have thought that there would be little, if any, unplowed ground. To what do you attribute the fact that "new history" is still being discovered?

Jack