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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#751 petefenelon

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 09:27

Originally posted by ensign14
One - or rather 2 - exception(s): "Challenge Me The Race" and "Champion Year" by Mike Hawthorn. The latter cost me 20 pesetas from a bookshop in Fuengirola when I was about 13...best value ever?


I've read both of these a few times, I wasn't sure whether these were ghosted or not, Champion Year I thought might've been - it is much less idiosyncratic and full of interesting asides than Challenge Me The Race........

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#752 Doug Nye

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 11:07

Gordon Wilkins - formerly of 'The Autocar' pre-war - ghosted some of Mike Hawthorn's autobiographical work - Gordon's wife Joyce was pretty spectacular and he once told me that Hawthorn made no pretences about camouflaging his sub-plot in working with Gordon ... Both Gordon and Joyce are still with us, Gordon well into his 90s now.

DCN

#753 petefenelon

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 16:53

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Gordon Wilkins - formerly of 'The Autocar' pre-war - ghosted some of Mike Hawthorn's autobiographical work - Gordon's wife Joyce was pretty spectacular and he once told me that Hawthorn made no pretences about camouflaging his sub-plot in working with Gordon ... Both Gordon and Joyce are still with us, Gordon well into his 90s now.

DCN


;) - thanks for that!

#754 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 22:31

Having now finished "Driving Forces", I am left feeling that yes - perhaps there is a better book in there. But I wonder if Stevenson is the man to write it (and/or if Bentleys are the publishers to produce it), since two of the most glaring errors of fact in the later chapters are that:

Pau is apparently in Belgium. :eek:

When discussing the imprisonment of Ferdinand Porsche by the French, Stevenson claims that one of those who secured his release was Marcel Lehoux. Quite difficult, considering Marcel had already been dead for ten years: the person he meant to feature was Charles Faroux.

Overall, I was disappointed in this book - Stevenson often seems to fit the facts to his arguments, rather than the other way round, and as I mentioned before he plays tricks with the chronology - as an example the book discusses Seaman's win in the 1938 German GP. In the next chapter, we move on seamlessly to the Swiss GP. Fine, you might think. But three paragraphs in we suddenly encounter Ernst von Delius! "Ernstchen" was killed in the 1937 German GP and we have actually jumped back two years to the 1936 Swiss GP. Stevenson does things like this regularly in the book, but if he provided chapter and verse on dates and arranged events in the correct order I have a feeling that a lot of his arguments would fail to stand up to scrutiny.

I haven't really touched on his interpretation of Nazi history, which is perhaps best described as "selective": as another example, the Night of the Long Knives is portrayed as Hitler's backlash against a homosexual "mafia" at the head of the SA. I'm aware that Roehm was homosexual, but from my memory of what I've read on this I don't think many other SA leaders were. As David Irving's "Hitler's War" is quoted as a major source, I have to say that his basic research may not be based entirely on unbiased material - although OTOH both Toland's and Fest's biographies of Hitler are mentioned in the bibliography.

#755 Dennis David

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 03:25

David Irving is a piece of filth not worthy of a moments time.

#756 Doug Nye

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 07:26

That is not - I feel - fair comment. David Irving is an interesting case - an apparent neo-Nazi apologist, in many ways indeed a manipulative and conceited piece of umbala - but nonetheless he was for many years a diligent, committed and relentless researcher who peerlessly sought original sources, and mined them deeply. The interpretation he subsequently broadcast upon those sources, I grant you, could be regarded quite justifiably as another matter...

DCN

#757 ensign14

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 08:16

There's the rub - Irving always wants to be treated as an historian, but HHJ Gray comprehensively demolished that in a libel case. He is an archivist, nothing more, and in his works relies on inaccurate original sources for deliberate reasons.

#758 Vitesse2

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 10:10

Thank you Doug. While I incline towards Dennis' opinion of Irving, you have perfectly summed up my feelings.

I hope duby is still reading this, since Irving's views regarding the Jews are pretty well known (not to mention controversial).

#759 Don Capps

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 11:26

As Doug points out, once upon a time David Irving was looked upon as someone whose drilling the bedrock of the late Third Reich was beginning to produce some very interesting material when.....

One of my professors I was working for at the time of the early 1970s seemed to catch the nuances that Irving was already moving into directions that the rest of us did not anticipate. While I don't take much issue with what either DD or DCN have said, I have always wondered exactly when the screws worked themselves loose. What used to astonish and dismay me was that long after many of us had consigned Irving to the dustbin, many within the US military community continued to read and -- if not espouse then -- push his books. That made for some very uncomfortable moments.

It was an unpleasant experience for both a relatively junior officer and bottom tier member of the faculty to openly disagree with those who should have known better. By the time Irving was fully exposed as the whatever it is that he is, I was not a bit surprised to see how some within the community had effortlessly switch sides on Irving..... Cynicism has it uses, especially in the academic world.

As an aside, it was an interesting exercise to use the same material that Irving had unearthed and then using it to develop an case contradicting the one he was espousing.

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#760 Doug Nye

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 16:04

It was his piece on the convoy PQ17 disaster which first made me suspicious of the man, his work and his motives - before I ever became aware of how suspect he was becoming in perhaps more sinister directions.

Meanwhile, back in the motor sport arena...

DCN

#761 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 16:42

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Stevenson often seems to fit the facts to his arguments, rather than the other way round...

This comment sums up my own feelings on this book perfectly. Very well said.

#762 Dennis David

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 22:08

My apologies guys for taking this thread off course but I just have very strong feelings about David Irving and his ilk.

No more needs to be said.

#763 Bud Byrnes

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 15:30

I would reccomend the four volume series by Mike Lang entitled Grand Prix! published by Haynes. Also, I am looking for a copy of volume 3. You can contact me @ albyrnes@rh-investment.com

#764 VWV

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 19:51

On a somewhat related topic about old aircraft, there is a small Canadian publisher Boston Mills Press http://www.bostonmil...fm?view=SUBJECT that has some interesting books, especially the first 3 volumns of the Aviation History Series which I found to be a very pleasent read along with the books on the Avro Arrow and the Avrocar.

Just something out of the mainstream.

#765 dretceterini

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 21:07

Waht is with all th re-issues lately; Borgeson's twin cam book, Alfa Milano by Fostick, the British specials book, etc?....

#766 VWV

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 16:02

I just saw this at Motorbooks.com http://www.motorbook.....y=Auto Racing

Team Lotus -The Senna Years: The Rise and Fall of the Turbo Powered F1 Cars at Team Lotus
by Johnny Tipler

Hard Bound; 232 pages
11.00w x 11.00h
Jan 2001
ISBN: 1902351169
Catalog Id: 138468
Due Date: Aug 15, 2004

List Price: $64.95

#767 paulhooft

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 16:44

I would reccomend the four volume series by Mike Lang entitled Grand Prix! published by Haynes. Also, I am looking for a copy of volume 3. You can contact me @ albyrnes@rh-investment.com


In fact I have part3 1974-1980 to swap.. for part 2... 1966-1973...
but it is here in the Netherlands
Paul

#768 petefenelon

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 00:14

Who was chasing Grand Prix! Vol. 3?

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...6916972650&rd=1


No connection to the seller at all.

pete

#769 1920sracing

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 00:45

The SAH literature Faire for those interested is not like it used to be in terms of vendors, offerings or any other way. A big disappointment. :rotfl: 1920sracing

#770 dretceterini

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Posted 11 August 2004 - 01:50

Originally posted by 1920sracing
The SAH literature Faire for those interested is not like it used to be in terms of vendors, offerings or any other way. A big disappointment. :rotfl: 1920sracing


I don't understand the comment a month and a half after the event...

#771 Don Capps

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 11:49

Classic Motorbooks is now advertising that Volume 3 of the Nye BRM Saga: Monocoque Cars 1962-1968 can be ordered.

#772 dolomite

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 17:13

Originally posted by Don Capps
Classic Motorbooks is now advertising that Volume 3 of the Nye BRM Saga: Monocoque Cars 1962-1968 can be ordered.


Also listed on amazon.co.uk, they state the publication date as January 15 2005.

#773 Ayrtonso

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 22:45

Hi racing readers!!

I would like to ask you where I can buy online "The Complete History of Grand Prix Motor Racing" (Adriano Cimarosti).

I've tried in Amazon but when just when I going to order it says there is a problem with my selected destination and I can't order it. I've tried several times in vane.

So, please tell me others links where I can buy that book at a good price.

#774 Zawed

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 02:07

You must be trying through Amazon market place? If you are going through the US site, try the amazon.uk site (or vice versa), you might get a different seller who is willing to ship internationally.

#775 Ayrtonso

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 12:51

Yeah, I've tried US, UK and french markets and the same problem.

Do you know other sites?

#776 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 15:29

Motorbooks in London are still quoting a price of £9.99 + postage

http://www.motorbooks.co.uk/

That should be treated with caution, though, as Chaters and the other UK dealers have put it back up to £30.00, now that new stock has run out.

Otherwise, there are currently ten copies on ABEbooks, starting at £15.00:

www.abebooks.com

#777 Ayrtonso

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 13:20

I've ordered two books from http://www.motorbooks.co.uk/ already:

- The Complete History of Grand Prix Motor Racing
- The Life of Senna

Thanks you very much Vitesse2 for those links!

#778 Seppi_0_917PA

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:29

At last weekend's Monterey Historics, the David Bull Publishing vendor booth had a new book: "Ferrari Prototype Era, 1962 - 1973 in Photographs", text by Alan Henry, 172 pages, 11" x 11", 95 color and 41 B&W photos, $79.95 (it's not shown on there web site). Like most photo books, rather than ordering it blind, it's best to look at it in the store or vendor booth to see if it appeals to you and/or that there are enough photos which are new to you. (Plus you may feel this topic has been done to death.)

It's pretty and I bought a copy. Page 83 is a favorite; Seppi's red helmet in David Piper's BRG P3/4, Reims 1967.

#779 I_hate_chicanes

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 18:47

I am thinking of buying 'Echoes of Imola' by David Tremayne. Has anyone read it? Is it worth buying? Thanks a lot for your help :)

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#780 Dennis David

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 17:43

Ferrari Prototype Era, 1962 - 1973 in Photographs



Having it autographed by Brian Redman, Derek Bell and Vic Elford helped it go down better. :p

#781 ensign14

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 18:43

Originally posted by I_hate_chicanes
I am thinking of buying 'Echoes of Imola' by David Tremayne. Has anyone read it? Is it worth buying? Thanks a lot for your help :)

I got it for a fiver remaindered, read it but only once ages ago so it's not immediately memorable. However I am a fan of Tremayne's writing and ISTR I learnt a lot about Imola that I never knew before. Including Bernie Ecclestone, Brabham mechanic...

#782 subh

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:50

Originally posted by petefenelon


Many "autobiographies" are ghosted (some openly, some less so) anyway - the few that clearly aren't and appear to be in the subject's own words are much more fun. Tony Rudd, Innes Ireland, Mark Donohue, Peter Revson, Graham Hill - all superb. (actually, one of the best unghosted "sporting" ;) autobiographies ever is wrestler Mick Foley's Have A Nice Day - a book he wrote in longhand!) I would be fasincated to read a "gloves off" Surtees autobiography - the Surtees/Henry one seems to pull quite a lot of punches and doesn't really cover the Team Surtees years at all well....


I’ve read both the Donohue (The Unfair Advantage) and Revson (Speed With Style) books, and would fully endorse the above sentiment.

#783 RX-7

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 12:17

Originally posted by VWV
I just saw this at Motorbooks.com http://www.motorbook.....y=Auto Racing

Team Lotus -The Senna Years: The Rise and Fall of the Turbo Powered F1 Cars at Team Lotus
by Johnny Tipler

Hard Bound; 232 pages
11.00w x 11.00h
Jan 2001
ISBN: 1902351169
Catalog Id: 138468
Due Date: Aug 15, 2004

List Price: $64.95


:up: That goes on the Christmas list for sure!!

#784 RX-7

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 12:21

Originally posted by Dennis David


Having it autographed by Brian Redman, Derek Bell and Vic Elford helped it go down better. :p


:lol:



#785 Seppi_0_917PA

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 14:56

Originally posted by Dennis David


Having it autographed by Brian Redman, Derek Bell and Vic Elford helped it go down better. :p

Nice! Those three did an autograph session at the David Bull Publishing vendor booth on Saturday, right? I was there Friday so I missed that. I did think that the driver selection was strange, I associate those three with Porsche protos, not Ferrari.

#786 dretceterini

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 21:23

This just came out, and is a must have for me...

Bucciali
par Christian Huet.
Edition de l'auteur.2004.
Texte français et anglais. 275x305.
Couverture carton + jaquette. 351 pages
79 Eu

I found it, along with a bunch of other new books, on the Editions Palmier site

http://www.editions-palmier.fr/

#787 petefenelon

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 19:23

A few recent purchases (a business trip to Germany and a brief stopover in London...) - so these are really "first looks" rather than detailed reviews

Meister des Sports - Der Automobil-Rennsport in der DDR - W. Melenck/F. Roenicke, published by Motorbuch Verlag.

Now this was an impulse purchase, largely on the strength of the pictures! (my German, despite working for a German-owned company, is O-level-20-years-ago). Looks to be a fairly comprehensive history of cars and championships in the DDR, and has some very interesting pics in it. Looks like I'll be able to puzzle most of it out with the aid of a dictionary, so expect questions about Formula Easter and Trabant-engined single seaters and the racing history of imported Zastavas -- it's all in there!

26 euros for 192 pages illustrated in B/W and colour, can't (yet) say how accurate it is but the pics are evocative and fascinating. I'm sure our German readers can tell you more.

Indy's Wildest Decade - Alex Gabbard, published by CarTech

A very nice looking book, moderately priced at 30 quid. First 50-odd pages are a potted history of the Indycar from the dawn of time to the late 50s, rest of it's a year-by-year semi-technical history of the sixties at Indy, majoring on cars that were "different" or successful. Lots of good pics (most of which I'd not seen before, and including a lot of colour), a lot of colour, and crisp prose.

Sports Car Heaven, Chris Nixon, published by Transport Bookman

Wavered about buying this at full price, Motor Books has a few copies at 30 quid and I snapped one up. The usual for writer and publisher, one of his landscape-format books with lots of excellent pics and incisive text on the "Aston/Ferrari wars" of '57-59. More colour than "Rivals", similar depth and elegant look to it.

Specialist British Sports/Racing Cars Of the Fifties and Sixties, Anthony Pritchard, pub. Osprey

From clubbies to Le Mans, if it's a British bitza it's in here (Jag and Aston are excluded as they're covered elsewhere). A mix of personal reminiscence, research, reportage, quotes, old adverts, photos culled from all kinds of unlikely places. Probably won't tell you a lot you don't already know about the likes of Lotus or McLaren, but has an incredible amount about one-offs from the 50s in particular. Great fun and looks to be an excellent reference work.

#788 fines

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 09:42

Originally posted by petefenelon
Meister des Sports - Der Automobil-Rennsport in der DDR - W. Melenck/F. Roenicke, published by Motorbuch Verlag.

Now this was an impulse purchase, largely on the strength of the pictures! (my German, despite working for a German-owned company, is O-level-20-years-ago). Looks to be a fairly comprehensive history of cars and championships in the DDR, and has some very interesting pics in it. Looks like I'll be able to puzzle most of it out with the aid of a dictionary, so expect questions about Formula Easter and Trabant-engined single seaters and the racing history of imported Zastavas -- it's all in there!

26 euros for 192 pages illustrated in B/W and colour, can't (yet) say how accurate it is but the pics are evocative and fascinating. I'm sure our German readers can tell you more.

Indy's Wildest Decade - Alex Gabbard, published by CarTech

A very nice looking book, moderately priced at 30 quid. First 50-odd pages are a potted history of the Indycar from the dawn of time to the late 50s, rest of it's a year-by-year semi-technical history of the sixties at Indy, majoring on cars that were "different" or successful. Lots of good pics (most of which I'd not seen before, and including a lot of colour), a lot of colour, and crisp prose.

Now these sound interesting! New publications?

#789 petefenelon

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 14:09

Originally posted by fines

Now these sound interesting! New publications?


The DDR and 60s Indy books are new 2004 publications; Sports Car Heaven
came out a couple of years ago; the Pritchard sports racers book is a 1999
facsimilie reprint of the '86 original (and in fact in this edition is
reprinted by Mercian Manuals).

#790 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 20:59

Just been looking at some of the pages from the DDR book on amazon.de. Is it as good as it looks Pete?

#791 petefenelon

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 21:13

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Just been looking at some of the pages from the DDR book on amazon.de. Is it as good as it looks Pete?


I haven't spent much time with it yet - it's going to take me a while to read, even with the aid of a dictionary - but the pics (and repro) are excellent, it's on nice paper and for under 20 quid I'd say it's good value for money! I'm certainly very happy with it.... covers all the obvious stuff (EMW/AWE/IFA, Melkus, Scampolo, Greifzu - which about covers my existing knowledge of East German motor racing) but the star stuff for me is the coverage of 70s/80s/90s single seaters - it's like looking at a completely new universe! :)

#792 Zawed

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 04:47

Does anyone have the Brabham book by Alan Henry that was published by Hazelton in the mid to late 80's?? Any comments on it?? I've seen a few come up on eBay but they routinely go 25 pounds plus, and I would like to know if it is worth it.

#793 petefenelon

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 07:53

Originally posted by Zawed
Does anyone have the Brabham book by Alan Henry that was published by Hazelton in the mid to late 80's?? Any comments on it?? I've seen a few come up on eBay but they routinely go 25 pounds plus, and I would like to know if it is worth it.


It's pretty good - not an alltime classic but in the absence of too many other books about Brabham it's probably the best general introduction to the first 20 years of the team's F1 history. Covers the early years, the Ecclestone takeover, the great Gordon Murray Cosworth, Alfa and BMW cars, and fizzles out a little after Piquet's '83 championship. Lots of interesting pictures, some good techie bits about the cars, lots of insight from Gordon Murray, covers the Brabham F1 privateers quite well, and it's one of Alan's best-written books. All in all, recommended as a good overview.

It soft-pedals some of the internal and external politics - for a fuller view of the team you need a few other books. I'd also recommend Jack Brabham's "When The Flag Drops", Mike Lawrence's "Brabham, Ralt, Honda: The Ron Tauranac Story", DCN's "The Jack Brabham Story" (nicer pictures!) and the first half of Terry Lovell's "Bernie's Game".

Given the size and number of illustrations, 25 quid isn't bad. I think it was 15 or 17 when it came out in the mid 80s....

#794 Zawed

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 21:21

Originally posted by petefenelon

Given the size and number of illustrations, 25 quid isn't bad. I think it was 15 or 17 when it came out in the mid 80s....


It's just that the McLaren book by Doug Nye (who I consider a better author) is much cheaper; I picked mine up for 8 pounds on eBay, which seems about average for the McLaren book.

#795 petefenelon

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 19:12

The McLaren book's been out in two editions ('84 and '88), the Brabham book only in one. And Brabham's success pretty much ended before the book was published; McLaren's was arguably at its peak when both editions came out.... so there were probably much bigger print runs ;)

#796 Vitesse2

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 20:43

Originally posted by petefenelon
The McLaren book's been out in two editions ('84 and '88), the Brabham book only in one. And Brabham's success pretty much ended before the book was published; McLaren's was arguably at its peak when both editions came out.... so there were probably much bigger print runs ;)

Make that definitely. There was even a book club print of the second edition.

#797 Even Darker

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 21:43

I've just finished reading the Motoraces Book Club edition of the Rudolf Caracciola book A Racing Driver's World and was very surprised by the episodic and often sketchy nature of the narrative. The early to middle years of his career are passed over in a few sentences. In addition some aspects of his career that I would have thought worthy of discussion, e.g. Le Mans are omitted altogether.

Does anyone know whether this edition was edited, either in translation or for the book club edition from a fuller text? If not, why was so much left out, did he just write about the bits that he remembered well or that interested him?

#798 Herbert

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:35

I`m looking for some information about Jack C. Fox's book "The illustrated history of the Indianapolis 500".

How many editions are there of this book? I think they were published in 1967, 1975, 1984 and 1994, but I'm not sure.

So what are the differences between them? Are the later editions just reprints of older ones or are they updated? And what are they worth?

#799 paulhooft

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 10:47

I just recieved this simply fantastic book about Bucciali
It is big, very heavy and great!
and called

Bucciali
par Christian Huet. Edition de l'auteur.2004. Text in français en English. 275x305.
Couverture carton + jaquette.
That is 351 large pages about the story of one of the most excusive french cars of the 20-30's
with some racing included.
An absolute Bargain and must have for the real classic car enthousiast, if there ever was one!

They sell it for: 79 euro at

http://www.editions-palmier.fr/

free postage in Europe

No, I am not the shopowner, just an amazed customer from the Netherlands!

Kindest regards,
Paul Hooft

(this is also on the forum under the tread Bucciali book)

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#800 dretceterini

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 12:30

Paul:

Now that you actually have the book, would you please be so kind as to give me than name and address of the actual publisher. I would like to try and get copies.

Thanks,
Stu Schaller