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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#2001 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 18:59

Depends whether you like studio photos of restored cars...or not. If you do it's well worthwhile. How honest can I be?

DCN :rolleyes:

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#2002 duby

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 07:30

good morning every one


- http://www.autosport...x.html/id/22072



duby

#2003 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 09:44

I'm not a subscriber so I don't get to see whatever's on that link.

Allen

#2004 petefenelon

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 09:51

Originally posted by Allen Brown
I'm not a subscriber so I don't get to see whatever's on that link.

Allen


NSR recommends:

"The Racing Driver" and "A Story of Formula One" by Jenks
"BRM" by DCN
"For The Record" by Niki Lauda
"All But My Life" by Purdy and Moss
"It Beats Working" by Eoin Young
"The Chequered Year" by Ted Simon
"Fabulous Fifties" by Dick Wallen
"Standing on the Gas" by Joe Scalzo
Ed McDonough's book on Fon de Portago
"Grand Prix" by Quentin Spurring
and
"The Lost Generation" by David Tremayne

I think the "controversial" choices there are probably the Ted Simon and Ken Purdy books. "The Chequered Year" is a book of which I like the idea but the implementation is so flawed.... and I know there are widely differing opinions about "All But My Life" - I rather like it.

#2005 Vitesse2

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 09:54

Roebuck's recommendations:

DSJ's Racing Driver and A Story of Formula 1

DCN's BRM

Lauda's For the Record

SCM's All but my life

Eoin Young's It Beats Working

Ted Simon's Chequered Year

Dick Wallen's Fabulous Fifties

Joe Scalzo's Standing on the Gas

From this year:

Ed McDonough's Marquis de Portago

Quentin Spurring's Grand Prix

David Tremayne's Lost Generation

He cites Lost Generation as his book of the year - as I think would anyone who has read it! :up:

#2006 ensign14

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 17:52

If you're ever in Prague (which you should be some time in your life), pop into the Dum Knihi on Wenceslas Square cos I've just bought a history of F3000 in Czech. Not much of a clue what it says (seems a bit similar to Russian), but lots of interesting, if small, pics of the likes of Schwager and Horner as well as The Usual Suspects. Statistics section at the back as well.

But it cost a fiver and is in hardback A4 format. Gotta be worth a look even for us non-Bohemophones.

#2007 Herbert

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 18:27

Is this book?

http://www.martinus.sk/?uItem=19901

#2008 ensign14

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 19:45

Yes.

There was also a super-duper-hyper Complete Encyclopaedia of Everything to Do with Motor Racing Ever so beloved of the likes of Bruce Jones, although this was a bit different, with very basic details for bike racers as well as cars. That was getting on for 20 quid though so I passed.

#2009 petefenelon

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 21:08

Originally posted by ensign14
If you're ever in Prague (which you should be some time in your life), pop into the Dum Knihi on Wenceslas Square cos I've just bought a history of F3000 in Czech. Not much of a clue what it says (seems a bit similar to Russian), but lots of interesting, if small, pics of the likes of Schwager and Horner as well as The Usual Suspects. Statistics section at the back as well.

But it cost a fiver and is in hardback A4 format. Gotta be worth a look even for us non-Bohemophones.


Interesting, I remember when Schwager was one of BMW's proteges, his career really did seem to stall!

I second the Prague recommendation, the food, beer, architecture, and welcome are all excellent, and so's the Technical Museum which includes quite a few mouth-watering bits of technology. We had a marvellous holiday there a couple of years ago.

#2010 rudi

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 05:01

The Joel Finn book "Sunshine Speed and a Surprise" seems expansive for a book about only one race the 1959 US GP.
Due to the actually low US Dollar, I order it from the US ("The Motorsport Collector" = signed book + great service).
After a story of the circuit, each race of this meeting (Junior, compact cars, F1) is told in details with many photos and incredible pit images.
At the end of the book, Joel Finn offers the Individual Competitor lap charts, fascinating...

#2011 Andrew Stevens

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 06:07

Has anyone else caught up with "Let 'Em All Go" by Chris Economaki and Dave Argabright? I read most of it in one sitting on the airplane from Sydney to Perth and have thoughly enjoyed it. I didn't know much about US dirt track history but the stories are very entertaining. It makes you stop and think when you add up the number of guys killed in midget racing in the postwar era however...

Despite that I've really enjoyed the book. People in Australia can order it from a certain motoring bookshop in Perth or US people can get it from Dave Argabright's website I guess.

#2012 Twin Window

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:41

Originally posted by ensign14

If you're ever in Prague...

Stag party?

#2013 sterling49

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 10:50

Originally posted by Twin Window
Stag party?


.......or maybe sales conference ;)

#2014 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 11:14

Originally posted by sterling49


.......or maybe sales conference ;)

He's a solicitor .... :p

#2015 bradbury west

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 12:58

[i]Originally posted by petefenelon
I second the Prague recommendation, the food, beer, architecture, and welcome are all excellent, and so's the Technical Museum which includes quite a few mouth-watering bits of technology. We had a marvellous holiday there a couple of years ago. [/B]

This also applies to Warsaw. Their Tech Museum is fantastic, see separate thread, and Krakow is also a super place for a visitor. They make a good two-centre holiday, linking them by train. V cold in winter though

Roger Lund

#2016 bradbury west

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 22:02

Looking on Duncan Rabagliati's Historic Formula Junior website for something else,

http://www.formulajunior.com/

I saw that there is news on Duncan's site of a new version of Robert Barker's complete Goodwood results book due in 2007, sample pages shown on site. The other one ran to only 100 copies, IIRC, and was soon like gold dust when people realised just what it provided.

There is also a profile and sample pages of the recent similar work on racing at Crystal Palace by Richard Page, TNF's erudite RAP, another work of enormous content.

usual dislaimers

Roger Lund

#2017 ensign14

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:24

Originally posted by Twin Window
Stag party?

Trying to avoid them...successfully. Don't want immersion in Bohemian architecture and Holy Roman Empire remnants to be spoilt by inebriated Mancunians or whatever.

Originally posted by Vitesse2

He's a solicitor .... :p

...which is going to come in bloody useful following a 15 hour return flight delay... :eek: :( :mad: :yawn:

And missing Blues go further clear at the head of the Championship.

#2018 Herbert

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 18:25

I'm looking for a book about the Ferrari 512 sportscars of the early 70s. Any recommendations?
What about "Scarlet Passion" by Anthony Pritchard?

#2019 sterling49

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 19:19

Originally posted by Herbert
I'm looking for a book about the Ferrari 512 sportscars of the early 70s. Any recommendations?
What about "Scarlet Passion" by Anthony Pritchard?


The "Scarlet Passion" is a great book, but covers the period from 1962-1971 (IMO truly great years of beautiful cars on demanding circuits/races). The photographs are just stunning and it also looks at the races from their competitors point of view (Ford/Porsche) to give a good picture of the tracks, races and drivers of the era. Sadly for you Herbert the 512 comes at almost the end of this period, but it does cover it and also the CanAm cars to. Great interviews with drivers such as Brian Redman and John Surtees. A lovely addition to any book collection.

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#2020 bradbury west

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 20:25

Originally posted by Herbert
I'm looking for a book about the Ferrari 512 sportscars of the early 70s. Any recommendations?
What about "Scarlet Passion" by Anthony Pritchard?


The only one I can think of is

Kimberley's Racing Sportscar guide no 2; Ferrari 512 by Nathan Beehl

62 pages, softback, on just the 512, lots of photos and plenty of race data. All photos LAT

Printed by Lavenham Press Ltd for William Kimberley ltd.

ISBN 0 946132 518 first published 1987

Not sure if still available as leftovers in any bookshops. Just try the usual outlets.

Hope that helps.That reminds me, I must read it again

Roger Lund

#2021 roger ellis

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 21:35

What's in Santa's sack for you this year?

I have asked for...

The new Automobile Year ( he always brings me one of those).
Abarth - The Man, The Machines.
The V12 Engine by Karl Ludvigsen.

Only 2 weeks to go...

#2022 Macca

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 21:52

Originally posted by Herbert
I'm looking for a book about the Ferrari 512 sportscars of the early 70s. Any recommendations?
What about "Scarlet Passion" by Anthony Pritchard?


The other good one is 'Ferrari 312 & 512 Sports Racing Cars' by Ian Bamsey, ISBN 0-85429-577-1.

It covers the 312P of 1969 and the 312B series from 1973-73 as well as the 512s.

There have also been several good issues of 'Cavallino' covering specific individual cars in detail, and a chassis list in one issue - Chaters might be able to help you (mine are all packed away ready for moving, unfortunately).


Paul M

#2023 bradbury west

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 00:14

Originally posted by Herbert
I'm looking for a book about the Ferrari 512 sportscars of the early 70s. Any recommendations?
What about "Scarlet Passion" by Anthony Pritchard?


Just checked my copy of Alan Henry's Ferrari Prototype Era 62/73. There is a reasonable amount on the 512 in there, but it tends to be photos plus good captions, rather than definitive narrative plus photos. If a friend has a copy try to borrow it to look, as it covers a lot more cars than the 512, so you would need to have a reason to buy it. Good book, none the less.

RL

#2024 green-blood

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 08:56

Originally posted by roger ellis
What's in Santa's sack for you this year?

Abarth - The Man, The Machines.
The V12 Engine by Karl Ludvigsen.


lovely, let us know if the Abarth one is any good. The V12 one is, although it doesn't say a lot about the non racing versions of teh M70 in my BMW 750, more's the pity.

I've been going through a DaVinci pahse so I'm after a few of the books on that particular geniuus, while I'll try and source some Targa Florio stuff over the break

#2025 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 09:05

:wave: Do you have any comments on the Endurance 50 ans d´historie books by C.Moity(3 vols.)?
The are not lowprice so I would like to know some opinions, please!
Regards Bjørn

#2026 RTH

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 11:27

Anyone seen this ?...........

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=15592

#2027 Herbert

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 11:43

Thanks a lot!

#2028 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 16:52

Has anyone seen the Blitzen Benz book by our friend Karl Ludvigsen? Knowing Karl, I have ordered it and looking forward to both a good read and having it on my reference shelf.

#2029 Alan Cox

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 17:24

RTH and Herbert, you can still obtain the new BRM book direct from the publisher at a 40% saving until 21st December, as per bradbury west's earlier post

http://www.veloce.co...d...s & Trucks

We'll keep this message simple. From November 17th until December 21st
you can buy any Veloce Publishing book, or books, at a personal
discount of 40%. Yes, 40%! You know this is a fantastic offer, and there
are nearly 200 superb-quality books on just about every automotive
subject to choose from. So, whether the books are for you or your loved
ones, take advantage of our Christmas present to you before we come to
our senses and this offer ends! Just quote wp103 when ordering online
or by 'phone.




Makes it even better value, I would suggest.

#2030 philippe charuest

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 21:10

talking of Veloce , is there any project to reprint the book " lola 1957-77" by veloce or even better a reprint by another publisher like motorbooks

#2031 petefenelon

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 01:56

Originally posted by philippe charuest
talking of Veloce , is there any project to reprint the book " lola 1957-77" by veloce or even better a reprint by another publisher like motorbooks


There really should be a good Lola book.... but that's poor and the sequel covering 78-late 90s is even worse :(

They don't attract high prices on Ebay.

Sadly John Starkey seems to have wrecked Ian Briggs' wonderful Endurance Racing 1982-91 too - "Golden Era" is a badly-laid-out amateurish mess :(

#2032 RA Historian

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 02:52

Originally posted by petefenelon


There really should be a good Lola book.... but that's poor and the sequel covering 78-late 90s is even worse :(

I have the two Lola books mentioned plus the companion book on the T-70. All three are disappointments. Incomplete, many errors. I consider it money thrown away.

#2033 petefenelon

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 13:45

Originally posted by RA Historian
I have the two Lola books mentioned plus the companion book on the T-70. All three are disappointments. Incomplete, many errors. I consider it money thrown away.


They've been remaindered in local bookshops down to about £5 and I still won't buy at that price!

#2034 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 15:32

The mention of the Starkey tome on the "history" of IMSA was one of the few times that John Bishop got genuinely perturbed when I sat down with him for an oral history interview for the IMRRC a few years ago. He was not happy with the result, at all. Very unhappy and very disappointed since it was nothing like he had been led to believe that it would be.

I honestly can't figure out what the problem is as why the Starkey books generally seem to miss the mark, often by a wide margin. The Lola books mentioned are of little real use, unfortunately, although the T70 book serves as a good place to mark down the more recent information that has surfaced and correcting the record.

#2035 petefenelon

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 16:00

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps

I honestly can't figure out what the problem is as why the Starkey books generally seem to miss the mark, often by a wide margin. The Lola books mentioned are of little real use, unfortunately, although the T70 book serves as a good place to mark down the more recent information that has surfaced and correcting the record.


I've yet to see a good one. Anyone who can make the Sauber-Mercedes or Nissans seem boring and inconsequential must be trying hard, too - his books on them were nearly as bad as the Lola ones. And I understand his Porsche books are littered with basic errors.

And the havoc wreaked on Ian Briggs' elegant and drily witty work is terrifying. Briggs is a nicely laid out book; the new expanded edition looks like someone with at most a nodding familiarity with word processing produced camera-ready copy on a cheap laser printer.

I don't doubt Starkey's enthusiasm, but I do not rate him as an author. I've seen infinitely more impressive narrative and research on plenty of amateur web sites... I do wonder if he doesn't close off whole areas to other and better writers too - "there's already been a book on Nissan GTPs, and it didn't sell..."

Then again, I suppose owning x% of comedian Jasper Carrott didn't hurt, and neither did his dealing in automotive exotica - I don't think John has to live by his writing so maybe his QA standards aren't as high as people who depend on them to earn a crust!

#2036 ensign14

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 16:20

Originally posted by petefenelon

Then again, I suppose owning x% of comedian Jasper Carrott didn't hurt...

True enough, although he has not managed the Carrott for about 15 years or so.

Carrott mentioned him in a routine - something like "I'll be driving down a motorway and Starkey will suddenly yell bloody hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I nearly hit the central reservation thinking I'm about to die in a fireball. And he'll say 'a GTX-V8 with a 2996cc engine!!!!! They only made about eight of those!!!!'".

And that when he got together with someone who knew what he was talking about the conversation was just a series of numbers.

Certainly I wouldn't count book design as one of his fortes...I know people don't like small typefaces, but the size in his cubic Group C books is like being shouted at.

#2037 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 17:37

Originally posted by petefenelon
I've yet to see a good one. Anyone who can make the Sauber-Mercedes or Nissans seem boring and inconsequential must be trying hard, too - his books on them were nearly as bad as the Lola ones. And I understand his Porsche books are littered with basic errors.

And the havoc wreaked on Ian Briggs' elegant and drily witty work is terrifying. Briggs is a nicely laid out book; the new expanded edition looks like someone with at most a nodding familiarity with word processing produced camera-ready copy on a cheap laser printer.

I don't doubt Starkey's enthusiasm, but I do not rate him as an author. I've seen infinitely more impressive narrative and research on plenty of amateur web sites... I do wonder if he doesn't close off whole areas to other and better writers too - "there's already been a book on Nissan GTPs, and it didn't sell..."


Head nods all the way through, especially the bit I put in red. I pondered the "expanded" Briggs book until I actually saw one of the "new" editions and I then cherished even more the one I already had.... Then again, I never quite understood the point of the "expansion" to be honest.

#2038 Adam F

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 18:12

Here is John Starkey's web-site - looks as if he's U.S. based.

http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/

Of course he also did a couple of books on Ferrari in the lat 90s with Philippe Olczzyk.............

#2039 philippe charuest

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 20:15

Originally posted by petefenelon


There really should be a good Lola book.... but that's poor and the sequel covering 78-late 90s is even worse :(

They don't attract high prices on Ebay.

Sadly John Starkey seems to have wrecked Ian Briggs' wonderful Endurance Racing 1982-91 too - "Golden Era" is a badly-laid-out amateurish mess :(

good to know .ill wait then for a "good " book on the lola history .i was mentioning it cause its the only one i ever saw on the net, and price were ridiculous.

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#2040 petefenelon

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 23:39

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Head nods all the way through, especially the bit I put in red. I pondered the "expanded" Briggs book until I actually saw one of the "new" editions and I then cherished even more the one I already had.... Then again, I never quite understood the point of the "expansion" to be honest.


From what I could see it's more chassis numbers, which I know float some boats here, and an expansion of the IMSA stuff from season summaries in Briggs to individual race reports - plus some material on the 'dying years' of GTP/CL.

I've been trying to get hold of the Martin/Wells Prototypes (a very, very nice book on IMSA) for years, can anyone find a copy?

#2041 petefenelon

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 23:45

Originally posted by philippe charuest
good to know .ill wait then for a "good " book on the lola history .i was mentioning it cause its the only one i ever saw on the net, and price were ridiculous.


I fear we'll never see a definitive history. Mike Lawrence tried to interest Eric Broadley in something along the lines of his March, Reynard and Ron Tauranac books and Eric turned him down flat :(

Then again... enough other people have passed through Lola and must have their memories of working there...

#2042 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 00:11

Here are some books whose publication I'm eagerly anticipating. What other interesting titles are coming in 2007?

The Phil Hill/Doug Nye book of Phil's photos.
The English version of the new Rodriguez biography
The Bernard Cahier book
The English version of the limited edition of Doug Nye's Ferrari: The Red Dream

Just buying those will probably break me, but tell us of other anticipated books.

Jack

#2043 RA Historian

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 01:20

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad
. What other interesting titles are coming in 2007?

Janos Wimpffen's third book of four on sports car racing. This is the photo based series that he is writing which perfectly complements his outstanding "Time and Two Seats" Should be out in the early part of 2007.

Mike Argetsinger, who wrote that wonderful book on Walt Hansgen, is researching his next book, this time on Mark Donohue. May not be done in 2007, but it is something worth anticipating.

Wally Wyss has a rewrite of his Cobra book in the works.

I am contributing photos from my archives to all three, plus a few other books in the works that probably won't be ready until 2008.

Getting back to Starkey's books, while the two Lola "histories" were bland and amateurish, it is the Lola T-70 book that annoyed me most. Very incomplete, lots of errors. Further, the appendix listing chassis histories was a complete joke. Very, very incomplete, riddled with errors, and quite useless as any type of reference. For most T-70s that came to the States Starkey only listed the history of the chassis as "Mecom Racing Team". Well, in 1965 and 1966 Mecom was the US distributor of Lolas. So, yes, they all were "Mecom", but come on now, to whom did he sell the blasted car?? Further, the few cars on which he did have a bit of race history had obvious errors. For example, he listed a particular T-70 as having been driven by Graham Hill to third place in the 1966 Road America 300. A-there was no such race! and B- Graham Hill NEVER drove at Road America!! Now, with that kind of "history", everything else listed became highly suspect and completely unreliable. I believe he came out with a second edition, which supposedly had more data and some corrections, but you know the old saying, "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!" I wasn't about to be fooled twice.

#2044 Seppi_0_917PA

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 01:43

Only because we're discussing John Starkey and his Lola books, I'll mention this post where he said that he is doing an update of his Lola T-70 book:
http://forums.autosp...&threadid=87013

(His posting history has some chassis number related questions.)

#2045 RA Historian

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 02:09

Well, it had better be a heck of a lot better than his first effort!

#2046 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 03:49

Originally posted by RA Historian
Well, it had better be a heck of a lot better than his first effort!


It has already been "revised" two or maybe three times now, so....

#2047 RA Historian

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 02:17

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


It has already been "revised" two or maybe three times now, so....

....so one can hope! But having already wasted sixty bucks on his first T-70 book, I'm not going to bite again!

#2048 red stick

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 15:23

While we're piling on, a couple of years ago I bought Starkey's history of IMSA, Racing with a Difference, and I don't know if I've looked at since I shelved it. The quality of the photos seemed substandard and the text seemed culled from contemporary press releases. A big disappointment for a book which was not that cheap to begin with and, as Pete pointed out, an excellent advertisement for the far superior Martin and Wells book, Prototypes.

#2049 Peter Darley

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 20:33

Originally posted by paulhooft
Saw this on the Motor Books website:

Jim Clark : Life at Team Lotus (limited edition) October 2006

It's by a P. Darley, anyone know more/seen a copy?


Peter, tell us more, about the book and the price we have to pay for it
Is it to cover new ground??
Paul


In response to all the enquiries I have had, I can now say the book is scheduled to be published in March 2007, and is on target.

Further info at coterieltd@aol.com

#2050 Peter Morley

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 10:34

Originally posted by Alan Cox
RTH and Herbert, you can still obtain the new BRM book direct from the publisher at a 40% saving until 21st December, as per bradbury west's earlier post

Makes it even better value, I would suggest.


Depending where you are, including postage and 40% discount it works out between £2.50 & 50p cheaper than from Play.com.

Their V-16 book is cheaper from Play even when you include the 40% discount.