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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#2101 sterling49

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 21:34

Originally posted by John Starkey

Anyway, I'll try to get the first of the T70 Spyders/roadsters on my site (www.johnstarkeycars.com), next week and if anyone can spot ANYTHING that needs correction, or if anyone can contribute any information, please let me know. There are still some wonderful mysteries to be sorted out!

John Starkey



I will bookmark your site and await with interest. I have your T70 book and find it a great stroll down memory lane, as I read about many of the cars and drivers that I watched in the '60's and '70's, and to me that is a good book! :up:

Oh...I saw Jasper too, back in the day :clap:

Sterling

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#2102 philippe charuest

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 21:57

so if i understand well it mean that the lola history book vol 1 (57 -77) will not be reprint soon/ever by veloce or any other publisher ?

#2103 Allen Brown

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 22:21

Hello John

Your response to the criticism of your book on this thread is admirable. I often wince when I read criticism of major pieces of research such as yours or Graham Vercoe's or John Blanden's. I know how much time and effort is needed to produce such a work and I know very well how it is impossible to get everything right. If we waited until every point was proven, we'd never publish anything. I know there's a lot on OldRacingCars.com that I've corrected over the years.

We have a duty of care because people will use our work no matter how many disclaimers we add but sometimes you just have to publish and accept that the gaps will be filled later.

I will also bookmark your site and check in regularly. As we've discussed before, I have some information on some T70s where they've come in contact with F5000s and if I can help at all, you can be assured that I will.

Best regards

Allen

#2104 Alan Cox

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:30

I was interested to note from Veloce's order form that "Coming soon", in March, is a book entitled "Unraced..F1's lost cars". No further information is listed on their website.

Has anyone heard anything of this title? Potentially, it sounds intersting.

#2105 bradbury west

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 11:17

Alan, I saw that too, and wondered what prompted it.

There is also one due on Microcars.

RL

#2106 green-blood

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 21:30

yeah I'm looking forward to it, but it only covers the past 10 years or so, so dont expect lots of lost 50-80s gems.

although a further volume on those lines would be great. Kieft to kick it off.

#2107 Twin Window

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 22:23

Originally posted by John Starkey

...when I managed Jasper Carrott...

John - did you ever live in Sutton Coldfield?

#2108 John Starkey

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 00:51

Hello Stuart,

No, I didn't live in Sutton Coldfield, though I used to fly model aircraft in the park there! I lived in Solihull, then Alcester. Occasionlly, I miss Alcester, but only fleetingly!

Hello Allen,

Thanks for that comment. Yes, it's sometimes very frustrating when you come to waht seems to be a dead end in seeking various car's histories. With the T70s, I think there MAY still be a couple in barns/garages, unrestored. We shall see!

Kind regards

John

#2109 Scuderia SSS

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 07:25

Hi John,
Its Paul from Kent here. I'm on your second book now. The first (250 Gt's) has been read to death (thanks for signing that btw), half way through The Nissan GTP book.
Great stuff, and a riveting read. I'll always treasure your books as much as i did the ride in the TDF.

Thanks!!

Paul.

#2110 Alan Cox

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 12:05

A bit more info on "Unraced - F1s lost cars"

http://www.veloce.co...p...s & Trucks

#2111 ian senior

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 12:36

Originally posted by Alan Cox
A bit more info on "Unraced - F1s lost cars"

http://www.veloce.co...p...s & Trucks


1995 cars onwards. I'm trying hard not to yawn.

#2112 Twin Window

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 12:54

Originally posted by John Starkey

No, I didn't live in Sutton Coldfield...

Oh well, it was a long-shot! During the summer of 1974 I briefly shared a flat in Sutton (where I lived 1963-77) with a chap who was involved with Jasper Carrott in some way. In fact he sang Magic Roundabout (actually, I think he said he wrote it) which was a while before it was released, and I thought it may have been yourself!

#2113 Alan Cox

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 12:56

Originally posted by Ian Senior

1995 cars onwards. I'm trying hard not to yawn.



Quite. A major disappointment.

#2114 petefenelon

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 19:00

Originally posted by ian senior


1995 cars onwards. I'm trying hard not to yawn.


More info - it covers:
Both Honda "after hours" cars
Lola test car
DAMS
Dome
Lola T97/30 - which I don't think properly counts as 'unraced' since it
at least went to a race!
Honda RA099
McLaren MP4/18 - again I think it's marginal because /19 was essentially /18B ;) - it puzzled me that /17D which was almost a new car didn't get /18 yet /19 which was effectively /18B did get a new designation. Marketing, I suppose?;)

and the Premier 1 GP prototype...

The Honda bits might be good interesting, the DAMS has pretty well covered before not least in Mike Lawrence's Reynard book (although more photos of it would be interesting, just to see how Reynard it was!), the Lola test car was pretty well covered in Racecar Engieering in period...

It seems to miss out on the Scalabroni Asiatech project and the Prost AP05/Phoenix/"Wee Tam Wants To Stay In The Game" which would appear to be quite interesting stories!

The author's Sam Collins whose book on abandoned circuits is nicely-written and very well-illustrated; I think his day job is on Racecar Engineering so no doubt the engineering side will be solidly told.

#2115 Bud Byrnes

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 19:13

When is the long awaited Vol. 3 of Doug Nye's BRM due out? I got a verification of my back order recently.

Bud Byrnes

#2116 pete3664

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 19:23

I just got an update from Amazon that it would be june or july of 07!!!!!!

#2117 petefenelon

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 19:48

Compared to the wait for Vol. 2 this is nowt! And at least knowing it's this year means I can block out some time to reread 1 and 2 just before it arrives ;)

#2118 sterling49

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 21:27

Originally posted by sterling49
Santas slay has been coming early in Kent this year, have received the Vic Elford Book, The Works Minis, The Eppynt Book and The Lost Generation, still waiting for Amazon to deliver Racing in the Rain, question is guys, just which one do I read 1st :confused:


Santa's slay may have come early in Kent, but my copy of "Racing in the Rain" has yet to be delivered from the great warehouse on the M1 :(

Sterling

#2119 RA Historian

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 23:49

[i]Santa's slay [/B]

Santa's "slay"? That old boy must be a real killer!

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#2120 sterling49

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 23:54

Originally posted by RA Historian
Santa's "slay"? That old boy must be a real killer!


Sure RA thing...the sleighs not bad either :rolleyes:

#2121 ensign14

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 12:04

The Mill House Books website is down... :(

#2122 Mark A

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 14:58

Originally posted by ensign14
The Mill House Books website is down... :(


Mill house Books website currently says


Sadly Mill House Books is no longer trading

For further details please contact Steven from the official receivers office in Nottingham on 0115 8525000



#2123 David McKinney

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 15:33

What very sad news

#2124 D-Type

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 18:13

Aother victim of Amazon and the abolishment of RPM ):

#2125 jph

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 19:12

Net Book Agreement rather tham RPM, I think. A great shame - their service was always excellent, probably the best among the specialists. But those of us who can't resist saving, I guess, 30%+ on average by buying from Amazon don't really have the right to regret their demise now.

#2126 Allen Brown

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 19:13

That is a real shame.

Allen

#2127 bradbury west

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 20:56

Just out of curiosity;

How many of you guys who ordered books from the internet bookshops well before Christmas in a time scale which the conventional booksellers found no problem in meeting, are still awaiting the arrival of your selected books??

Roger Lund.

#2128 Twin Window

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 22:06

Originally posted by Allen Brown

That is a real shame.

Very sad news indeed...

#2129 bradbury west

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 23:57

I have just spent a very pleasant hour looking through my copy of Denise McCluggage's American Sports Racing book, looking for a Ferrari on another thread, and I had forgotten just what a good photo record of fifties' and sixties' s/c racing in the US and S America, plus Cuba, it was

Highly recommended, if you do not have it already

Roger Lund.

#2130 Geza Sury

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:13

Originally posted by Mark A
Sadly Mill House Books is no longer trading.

Oh no! My favourite bookseller :cry:

#2131 ian senior

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:11

Originally posted by Geza Sury

Oh no! My favourite bookseller :cry:


And mine. Always helpful, always prompt, always a decent price.

Slightly mercernary note - what will happen to all the stock? Will it be sold off cheap as a job lot?

#2132 ensign14

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:14

It is sad news, although I had only bought from them in person from the shows in recent years cos they changed delivery service to some company that could not deliver to flats, on weekends or in city centres, which meant I physically could not get anything delivered at all.

But they were one of the first companies I ever used...I still have the Mike Lang trilogy that I ordered from them (a big moment!) that cost me around a month's pocket money...

#2133 bradbury west

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 13:25

The Insolvency Service tells me that there is no question of it being sold as a going concern. All trading has ceased, and subject to a purchaser buying the whole stock in the meantime, the entire stock will be auctioned off as one parcel in due course.

Roger Lund.

#2134 Hieronymus

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 14:21

I always relied on Mill House for my imports. Never had any problem in more than 15 years I dealt with them.

So, I must look for someone else in 2007...Chaters?? Or can someone recommend some other place, taking in consideration that postage fees is usually the "killer" when one wish to order from abroad. Mill House was always good on p&p and so seems Chaters.

#2135 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 16:40

Hi , I used Mill House excliusive for 15 years untill a deal went wrong and after 6 months I wanted to end it! I spoke with a naughty bloke who hang up , when I called again I spoke with big letters and he got small! But it was too late for me! Since Spring 2005 I have had an excellent service at Motor Books !

Can someone please say a few words about Michael Cooper-Evans "Private Entrant" and /or "Rob Walker books ???

#2136 PRD

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 18:18

Originally posted by Hieronymus
I always relied on Mill House for my imports. Never had any problem in more than 15 years I dealt with them.

So, I must look for someone else in 2007...Chaters?? Or can someone recommend some other place, taking in consideration that postage fees is usually the "killer" when one wish to order from abroad. Mill House was always good on p&p and so seems Chaters.


You'll get good personal service from Chaters certainly

#2137 PRD

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 18:20

Originally posted by bradbury west
Just out of curiosity;

How many of you guys who ordered books from the internet bookshops well before Christmas in a time scale which the conventional booksellers found no problem in meeting, are still awaiting the arrival of your selected books??

Roger Lund.


I've had the latest Wimpffen picture book on order from Amazon since September and now been given a delivery date at the end of Feb :mad:

#2138 bradbury west

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 19:13

Originally posted by PRD


I've had the latest Wimpffen picture book on order from Amazon since September and now been given a delivery date at the end of Feb :mad:


Mine came in 4 days, four days, from Chaters, and at a discount IIRC. Top service

RL

#2139 Abat Hernaez

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 19:51

Hello all, i am searching certain information relative to the book "Time and two seats". ¿Is this book only a compendium of numbers and clasifications or includes narrative explaining the season, the races etc...? I am thinking about buying it but before i want to be sure. As a example i have "The complete history of Grand Prix racing" in mind: not too exhaustive but enough to be enjoyable (at least to an amateur like me).

¿Do i spend the cash?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for my english, i´m better reading it than writting it.

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#2140 petefenelon

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 21:20

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer


Can someone please say a few words about Michael Cooper-Evans "Private Entrant" and /or "Rob Walker books ???


Private Entrant is a short book that is partly a biography of Rob, partly a history of his team, and partly an analysis of the economics and nuts and bolts of running a privateer racing team in mid-sixties F1. It's got some good b/w pics in it and you should be able to pick up the MBC edition quite cheaply - I did a few years back.

The "Rob Walker" biography is bigger, more anecdotal, and much more lavish. It's hard to get hold of at reasonable prices, I think Motor Sport gave away some of the last copies as a subscription sweetener not long after it came out...

#2141 petefenelon

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 21:23

Originally posted by Abat Hernaez
Hello all, i am searching certain information relative to the book "Time and two seats". ¿Is this book only a compendium of numbers and clasifications or includes narrative explaining the season, the races etc...? I am thinking about buying it but before i want to be sure. As a example i have "The complete history of Grand Prix racing" in mind: not too exhaustive but enough to be enjoyable (at least to an amateur like me).

¿Do i spend the cash?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for my english, i´m better reading it than writting it.


The sheer size of TATS might intimidate - it's 2300 pages in two volumes. It contains a lot of narrative and pics, as well as very detailed entry lists and results. It is very readable, but there is a lot of it. I think it's an incredible achievement and one of the huge, towering classics of racing literature.
(In terms of style, think Mike Lang's Grand Prix series, but with much more detail...)

#2142 sterling49

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 21:52

Originally posted by PRD


I've had the latest Wimpffen picture book on order from Amazon since September and now been given a delivery date at the end of Feb :mad:


I had a few books for Xmas, all came, except "Racing in The Rain", which was ordered (with the Vic Elford book and delivered before Xmas) by a family member from Amazon, and still I wait. I know my son obtained "Racing Minis" from Chaters, which I understand had better pricing than Amazon, and I am guessing that my daughter purchased "The Lost Generation" from Amazon, as she would buy most media online. I have found Chaters to be an excellent supplier.

#2143 Bill Becketts

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 22:10

Originally posted by ensign14

It is sad news, although I had only bought from them in person from the shows in recent years cos they changed delivery service to some company that could not deliver to flats, on weekends or in city centres, which meant I physically could not get anything delivered at all.


I ordered my usual copy of the Le Mans Annual in mid December and it arrived just before Christmas in good order, but not in the usual "Bubble wrap" and TLC I have come to expect from my previous (Long) experience with Mill House.

#2144 Mark A

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 22:22

Originally posted by PRD


I've had the latest Wimpffen picture book on order from Amazon since September and now been given a delivery date at the end of Feb :mad:


Originally posted by bradbury west


Mine came in 4 days, four days, from Chaters, and at a discount IIRC. Top service

RL



This pissed me off a lot.

My Parents said they would buy me it for Christmas so I told them to go with Amazon as it was a lot cheaper than anywhere else.

My mother ordered it and was told delivery Feb. It then appeared in stock on the site at a much higher price (close to RRP), but the one she ordered still showed as awaiting delivery. :mad:

I had a look, and we ended up with her ordering it from Amazon Marketplace and it arrived within a week. Not quite the original Amazon price but almost. Made a complaint but was told they will get that version in in Feb!

So looks like they plan to ramp up the price to get the people who wanted to buy it as a Christmas present and then drop the price when most people will have cancelled the cheaper order.

Last time I spend any money with Amazon!

#2145 sterling49

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 22:31

Originally posted by Mark A




So looks like they plan to ramp up the price to get the people who wanted to buy it as a Christmas present and then drop the price when most people will have cancelled the cheaper order.


hmmmmn, so unethical :eek:

#2146 bradbury west

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 22:46

Originally posted by bradbury west
I have just spent a very pleasant hour looking through my copy of Denise McCluggage's American Sports Racing book, looking for a Ferrari on another thread, and I had forgotten just what a good photo record of fifties' and sixties' s/c racing in the US and S America, plus Cuba, it was

Highly recommended, if you do not have it already

Roger Lund.


Got the title wrong.......

American Racing
subtitled Road racing in the 50s and 60s
by Tom Burnside with text by Denise McCluggage

publ by Koenemann, sorry cannot do umlauts.

ISBN 3-89508-246-5

text is 3 column format, English, French and German.

postage will be expensive, it is a large, heavy book.

RL

#2147 RA Historian

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 23:03

Originally posted by bradbury west
American Racing
subtitled Road racing in the 50s and 60s
by Tom Burnside with text by Denise McCluggage
postage will be expensive, it is a large, heavy book.RL

But it is worth it! I bought mine a few years ago and it has a treasure of old US and Nassau racing photos from the 50s and 60s. Add to that the "I was there" narrative by Denise McCluggage, in her very friendly and breezy style, and you have a winner.

#2148 petefenelon

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 09:31

Originally posted by RA Historian
But it is worth it! I bought mine a few years ago and it has a treasure of old US and Nassau racing photos from the 50s and 60s. Add to that the "I was there" narrative by Denise McCluggage, in her very friendly and breezy style, and you have a winner.


Agreed, a bit of a neglected classic. Not to be lumped in with those Konemann zero-content glossies on assorted sports car marques; these are up there with the Schlegelmilch books that Konemann also put out.

#2149 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 09:40

:wave: petefenelon : Post 2135 , thank you very much !

post 2136 : :up: faboulos work ! But heavy to "work" with! Add the "open roads" and "winged sportscars" and you have some superb works on WC sports car racing !

#2150 Abat Hernaez

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 21:08

Thanks Pete and Bjørn for your answers, you have convinced me to buy it, it looks like the sports car nirvana :up:

I have already looked at "open roads" and "winged sportscars" but i prefer to study "Time and two seats" first. No doubt both books will follow later :smoking: