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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#201 Frank S

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Posted 22 June 2003 - 07:10

Vitesse2

Cds of journals would be marvellous, but the sheer amount of work (and cost) involved are staggering.



Just today I got Bob Norton's PDFs-on-4-CDROMs of Gus Vignolle's complete Motor Racing, V1 No1 through V9 No3, 1953-1964. Bob can tell you what it took to complete such a project, and what it takes to deliver a product. Contact him and order the discs through Art Evans at
Fab Fifties
agevans@yahoo.com

Frank S

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#202 m.tanney

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 00:47

  Yes, scanning periodicals onto CD or DVD-ROM is easier said than done. One thing that would make it easier would be better scanner control software. Whenever you try to scan a page with both text and photos, you have to raise the resolution and make other adjustments to make the pictures as clear as possible. In the process, you can muddy up the text. Even if you don't, you're wasting memory on higher than necessary resolution for the printed text. Then there's the matter of getting the page aligned properly, croping the edges, etc. Very time consuming. What is needed is a program that, on the first pass of the scanner, could identify the denser areas (the photos), and direct the machine to scan only those areas at high resolution. It also ought to be possible to design software that would level the text and recognize and crop the dark borders from the page. Scanning page after page of (often bound) periodicals would still be time consumong, but much less so than at present.
  A company like Haymarket could see some advantages in digitizing it's archives. If it did choose to put backissues of Autosport, Motor Sport, etc. on disk, selling copies to crazed enthusiasts would be one way of recouping some of the cost.
  It's a different story with older defunct publications, but I'll leave that for another post.
  It goes without saying, though, that the availability of old and rare periodicals on searchable disks would make research a great deal easier. It might even lead to an explosion of new books. As to whether any of them could find a publisher...

#203 Frank de Jong

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 16:17

A full year of the German magazine Auto Motor und Sport is available on CD for quite some time now (5 years?). I've been contemplating to replace my magazine collection with one CD, but have not decided yet. Perhaps never wil.
I guess AMS started the whole thing when their process was digitized - I don't think they scanned each magazine page by page ;)
Anyone experience with AMS on CD?

#204 Don Capps

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 17:03

Neville makes a point that I think has great merit. It also gives credance to the notion of the "revolution of rising expectations."

As Neville correctly points out, this racing history business was a very lonely, frustrating, and often fruitless search for Information in the decades past. Except for the few Scribes who had a clue -- DCN, DSJ, and a very few others -- as to the Story of some item or event, or a srerendipitious discovery dropped something into your lap, or just dogged determination finally unearthed a shard of pottery that could only be from Troy, you were largely On Your Own.

I started to collect chassis numbers over 40 years ago and often had to sweat them out and then do an autopsy to determine their validity. I think most of us have been there. I made an effort to begin working on the AAA/USAC Championship Trail about 30 years ago and got nowhere after several years of looking under lots of rocks. Ditto the F5000 series. Thank goodness for Classic Motorbooks, Gordons in NYC, and a few other of the scatted desert oasis I managed to find during my treks about the land.

Today it is really mind-boggling to realize that one can stroll into a Borders and buy any number of books on F1 which have pretty detailed information of the WDC results tucked somewhere inside the covers. Or use the internet to purchase books that would never cross your view otherwise. Or replace a book long lost without having to make many, many, many, many phone calls and/or trips to the book store handling your "special order."

Yep, things have gotten better. However, as our collective knowledge grows and the fruits of our collaborative efforts ripen, which path do we take? Paper or electrons?

As for the messiness of converting paper to electrons for CD-ROMs, perhaps the advent of the DVD/CD-ROM will allow us to sidestep the limitations of the current technology and produce these electronic research library tools which are sorely needed.

As I have said time and time again, scholarship in this neck of the woods is still lagging far behind what it should be simply because the materials are not readily available to as many as it should be. Commercial interests have been accomodated because the very notion of "scholarship" in this endeavor was once considered laughable.

Thanks, Neville, for a great comment and a reminder that even Candide was correct at times....

#205 petefenelon

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 14:45

I saw an ad today in a catalogue that fell out of a recent Autosport for something described as "The Complete Book of Formula One" edited by Mark Hughes. Mark's done his share of cheap F1 reference books for the Bernie era but always seemed to have a bit more to him than that (his corner-by-corner analyses of qualifying are the best racing bits in Autosport at the moment).

This apparently has pictures of every driver (shades of Grand Prix Who's Who) and car to have competed in the World Championship and was advertised at fifty quid. Even if it's textually duff, it sounds interesting just from the point of view of getting pics of 50s-70s privateer entries...

Chaters are saying November 03 release?

anyone know any more about it?

#206 Mat

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 15:29

Originally posted by Fred Gallagher
For those (few?) of you out there interested in rallying some great news. Reinhard Klein of "Rally Cars" "Rally" and "Walter Rohrl" fame is doing a large format 312 page book to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Safari Rally.

It will be colour where available and include full entry lists and results.

Price will be €78 and it should be ready in October.


couldnt find any listing for this new title anywhere. Considering, Rally and Rally Cars were published by konnemann, do you know who his publishing this one?

#207 David Birchall

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 19:35

This is a fascinating thread. I don't think I have seen any mention of Palawan books here. Beautiful, expensive productions on the subjects we love-even pheasants!

As an aside; Bjorn Waldegard's name jarred my memory. We were in Kenya on a safari some years ago, and while out in the bush looking for game late one afternoon (to photograph!) there was suddenly a blare of sound, a cloud of dust and Bjorn Waldegard slid up in a Works Toyota. Wild life at last!

#208 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 20:16

David, I agree with your assessment of Palawan books. The few that I have are simply stunning productions, and very expensive.

I'm just finishing up "Dick & George" which is masterpiece of layout and production. DCN's text has provided a very different insight into Dick Seaman compared to what I have previously read. And George Monkhouse is very entertaining to read about.

"Ferrari In Camera" is another Palawan title that I enjoyed very much as well.

Given the price of these productions, I do not purchase many as I have so many other titles on my wish list, and so many of these I can purchase for the amount spent on any single Palawan book. I'm not complaining mind you, just being realistic. I already have some 10 books on the shelf awaiting the time to enjoy them.

And so many more to come this year. The ones that I will purchase, or at least strongly consider are:

Lotus 72 - Oliver
Nuvolari - Hilton
Fangio - Donaldson
Brabham - Nye
Porsche - Ludvigsen

#209 Fred Gallagher

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 08:09

Originally posted by Mat


couldnt find any listing for this new title anywhere. Considering, Rally and Rally Cars were published by konnemann, do you know who his publishing this one?


I think Klein will publish it himself. It should be out in late October.

#210 Mat

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 13:47

ok, thanks fred. :up:

#211 dolomite

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 16:39

Any update on the Lotus 72 book? I thought it was due out by now?

#212 petefenelon

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Posted 30 June 2003 - 11:16

Ebay bargain:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1&category=1132

Vol. 1 of Mike Lang's "Grand Prix!" series (1950-65) - race-by-race reports of all World Championship races, plus B/W photos (some of the earlier ones are diabolically reproduced, mind!)

currently ukp 3.50 and well worth it!

No connection at all with the seller - just thought it might interest people as it's a good price for a good book!

#213 Steve L

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Posted 01 July 2003 - 18:59

I picked up two good books about Tazio Nuvolari at VSCC Donington.

The first is simply called "Nuvolari" and is by Christopher Hilton - it has a very atmospheric cover of the great man. At £25.00 it seems a bit pricey, but hopefully the content will justify this.

The second is called "Nuvolari - The Legend Lives On" and is by Cesare De Agostini. It is quite large format and has lots of great photos. Good value at £30.00.

I also bought David McKinney's Maserati 250F book. This seems to be a pretty definitive history.

I'm looking forward to the "Maserati - A Racing History" to be published soon by Haynes. The companion Alfa Romeo and Bugatti volumes that have already come out have been great.

#214 Geza Sury

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:49

Originally posted by Steve L
The first is simply called "Nuvolari" and is by Christopher Hilton - it has a very atmospheric cover of the great man. At £25.00 it seems a bit pricey, but hopefully the content will justify this.

The second is called "Nuvolari - The Legend Lives On" and is by Cesare De Agostini. It is quite large format and has lots of great photos. Good value at £30.00.

I'm also interested in purchasing these books. Steve, if you could make some comments after you have read the books (or at least started reading) would be really great :cool:

Originally posted by Steve L
I'm looking forward to the "Maserati - A Racing History" to be published soon by Haynes. The companion Alfa Romeo and Bugatti volumes that have already come out have been great.

The Maserati book should have been out by 15 June, I don't know if it has already hit the streets or not, but you can already order it from Amazon. Availability: usually dispatched within 4 to 6 weeks. :confused: What's more interesting is that it's also possible to order (not pre-order) DCN's forthcoming Jack Brabham book which would only appear at the end of August :confused:

#215 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 13:47

Originally posted in the "Dick & George" thread, but to keep the book topics together, I have moved this post here. - WDH

I have just finished "Dick and George" by DCN, and I thought that I should share a few remarks on this magnificent book for those who are interested.

The first thing you will note about this Palawan volume (this is not a lightweight book) is the premier quality of the production. Very nicely bound, heavy stock, first-tier layout and design, marker ribbon, etc., this book has quality seeping from it. The reproduction of actual correspondence between Seaman and Monkhouse is enjoyable, and the photography is stunning. Rather than footnotes, key terms are highlighted in the text in color with references to notes at the rear organized by chapter. Yes this book is expensive, but is worth every penny given it's substance and content.

DCN has written a narrative that goes well beyond the correspondence between the main characters. The story reveals a world of privilege and class as it existed in pre-war England. Obviously based around the racing career of Seaman, you quickly begin to understand the nature of British racing at this time, which in the main, was enjoyed by wealthy enthusiasts with an abundance of money and leisure time. A very personal story set against the backdrop of the emerging Nazi Germany and impending world conflict.

Having read previous biographies on Seaman including Chula and Nixon (Shooting Star and to a lesser extent, Racing the Silver Arrows), and having enjoyed M-B Grand Prix Racing by Monkhouse, I was very familiar with the basic story. With "Dick & George" however, DCN reveals this plot in an entirely unique style and form. This new version adds layers of texture to previous works on Seaman resulting in a fully formed picture of the man, supporting characters, and the world in which he lived.

My biography benchmark has been "Mon Ami Mate" by Nixon, but my Grand Epreuve in the Biography catagory is now this stunning new work. This book has become the new reference work on Seaman, and I suspect will remain so for a very long time.

After reading this book, I now have somewhat different perceptions of the characters of the story than I previously understood from other books on this subject.

Seaman - Very talented, spoiled, indulged, and in many ways, selfish. Very aware of his station in life. Everything came too easily to him. Nevertheless, the premier British driver of his age.

Erica - A goddess with class, culture, breeding and a overly spoiled and indulged child. Used to getting her own way in everything. In these respects, a perfect match for Dick.

Lilian Beattie-Seaman - Still a stiff Victorian battle axe, but I feel a bit more sympathetic towards her than before. Certainly against the marriage of Dick and Erica more due to how she feared it would reflect upon herself rather than for any other reason.

George - A character study of the enthusiast, well connected, highly talented with a camera, and very entertaining. Through his correspondence, you can sense the genesis of the man he will become in his later years.

Huhnlein - In the context of this story, the drivers seem to think he is bit of a joke. The one person that, beyond the confines of "D&G" that I would like to know more about. In other books, notably Stevenson's "Driving Forces", Huhnlein seems to represent all of the darkest aspects of the Nazi movement. Here, as seen from within the perhaps limited perspective of this English driver in a German team, he seems less "feral".

In short, the book has provided a highly unique glimpse of a time long past, and to any enthusiast of the period, an invaluable insight behind the scenes and into the personalities that is unavailable elsewhere. This is a book that you will enjoy many times over. I know I will.

Simply, "wizard".

#216 petefenelon

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 16:31

Just seen Amazon trailing a John Tipler book on the Lotus 78/79 - their price 14 quid, RRP 20, out this month.

If it's like his 25/33 book it'll be fairly cheaply-produced with some good b/w photos, sensible but not inspired text, and almost certainly worth the money - Tipler knows and likes his Lotuses and seems to enjoy tracing their history... although (Rebaque's cars apart) I do wonder how much interesting post-works history there is to trace here!

Probably won't say much that's not in Cromac, Lawrence, or various DCN tomes including Autocourse '66-'91 and THeme Lotus, but almost any Lotus book is of interest to me...;)

#217 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 20:58

Originally posted by Steve L
The first is simply called "Nuvolari" and is by Christopher Hilton - it has a very atmospheric cover of the great man. At £25.00 it seems a bit pricey, but hopefully the content will justify this.

I would also like your thoughts on this book if possible. While I'm not normally a Hilton fan, from the reviews thus far it sounds like a very worthy effort.

I don't have many books on Nuvolari and I always admired him greatly. I do have a volume by Zagari (Automobilia), while mostly photographic, is a very good work. I am really looking forward to the Hilton bio.

#218 Don Capps

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 18:56

I thought the Tripoli 1933 chapter was well done by Hilton...... ;)

#219 Steve L

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 18:26

I'm afraid I haven't yet got round to reading the two Nuvolari books that I bought (this thing called "work" keeps getting in the way!) :) .

However, I was in Birmingham today and saw what will be my next two essential purchases!

The first was "Maserati - A Racing History" which will be added to the Alfa Romeo and Bugatti volumes in the series which I already have.

The second was "Piers Courage - Last of the Gentleman Racers" which looked to be very nicely done indeed with plenty of well reproduced pictures.

Both of these books are published by Haynes who I think deserve a pat on the back for releasing such titles at affordable prices.

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#220 ensign14

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 13:47

Originally posted by Steve L
The first was "Maserati - A Racing History" which will be added to the Alfa Romeo and Bugatti volumes in the series which I already have.

The second was "Piers Courage - Last of the Gentleman Racers" which looked to be very nicely done indeed with plenty of well reproduced pictures.

Waterstones perchance? They also have Volume 2 (number about 2250)...

#221 Michael Oliver

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 08:35

Originally posted by dolomite
Any update on the Lotus 72 book? I thought it was due out by now?


I think I can probably help on that one :D

We've just (this week) had some pre-production samples back from the printer, which we will be taking down to the Goodwood Festival this weekend to give to the booksellers exhibiting there. So there will be copies to look at but not to take away :(

The book has now been printed and will go on sale in the next few weeks, all things being equal...

Hope this helps!

Michael Oliver

#222 Darren Galpin

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 08:54

Lost Tracks, by Gordon Eliot White, published by Iconografix.
This softback book lists the histories of some 80 or so circuits and speedways now lost to the world. It predominantly (well, 90%) talks about just American tracks, but also features Brooklands from the UK, Hurrican Stadium in Buenos Aires, plus a few others. It features topographical maps and pictures (some great ones of midget racing from the '50s). It really does convey well the history and development of American racing, and how different modern racing can be. The only complaint could be about the price - it cost £26 including shipping from WHSmith online for a 120 page paperback here in the UK. But then you are getting something which would never be covered in mainstream books.

#223 Geza Sury

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:30

Anyone heard of the new(?) Vanwall book? I found it here without any additional info.

#224 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 10:19

Originally posted by Geza Sury
Anyone heard of the new(?) Vanwall book? I found it here without any additional info.


The ISBN quoted is a Crowood Press number - it's not on their website though, so probably an early announcement by the dealer for an Autumn or Winter title: the Crowood new books listing only goes up to June!

http://www.crowoodpr...2.asp?ClassID=6

#225 Ron Scoma

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 10:32

Originally posted by Geza Sury
Anyone heard of the new(?) Vanwall book? I found it here without any additional info.




Publication date is in October I am told.
Cheers,

Ron

#226 Geza Sury

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 10:39

Originally posted by Vitesse2
The ISBN quoted is a Crowood Press number - it's not on their website though, so probably an early announcement by the dealer for an Autumn or Winter title: the Crowood new books listing only goes up to June!

Thank You Richard :up: Seeing your reply I checked Chater's website and they list the book among forthcoming items. The only strange thing is that it was due to come out last November. I'm very much interested in purchasing this title since the Jenkinson/Posthumus book is quite expensive and AFAIK it's mainly a technical analysis.

#227 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 11:03

Originally posted by Geza Sury

Thank You Richard :up: Seeing your reply I checked Chater's website and they list the book among forthcoming items. The only strange thing is that it was due to come out last November.

In publishing, I can assure you that's not unusual! There are so many variables involved that publication dates slip back all the time. If Ron's info is correct, then it's "only" a year late!

Originally posted by Geza Sury
I'm very much interested in purchasing this title since the Jenkinson/Posthumus book is quite expensive and AFAIK it's mainly a technical analysis.

I think you're confusing two books here, Geza. The Jenkinson/Posthumus book, published by Patrick Stephens, is a more or less official history of the whole Thinwall/Vanwall project and includes some biographical detail on GAV as well. The more technical one was a later book by Ian Bamsey, in the Haynes series which also included the Lotus 25, Auto Union etc etc.

I see Chaters are quoting £50 for the DSJ/CP book - that's a lot of money for what is, quite frankly, an uninspiringly-produced book. However, it is worth it for the text, which is superb! I bought mine new, on publication day, BTW! To be quite honest, the price probably reflects the rarity, since it would have had a very small print run.

#228 Geza Sury

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 12:02

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I think you're confusing two books here, Geza. The Jenkinson/Posthumus book, published by Patrick Stephens, is a more or less official history of the whole Thinwall/Vanwall project and includes some biographical detail on GAV as well. The more technical one was a later book by Ian Bamsey, in the Haynes series which also included the Lotus 25, Auto Union etc etc.

I see Chaters are quoting £50 for the DSJ/CP book - that's a lot of money for what is, quite frankly, an uninspiringly-produced book. However, it is worth it for the text, which is superb! I bought mine new, on publication day, BTW! To be quite honest, the price probably reflects the rarity, since it would have had a very small print run.

Actually a friend of mine told me about the Jenkinson/Posthumus book. He found the text too difficult to understand saying it's too 'technical'. Perhaps he should improve his English :lol: Thanks for the review of the book :up: It makes me wonder now which one I should buy. DSJ and Cyril Posthumus are obviously great motorsport writers but I don't now anything about Mr Mcdonough. I only know that it was him, who wrote the new Ferrari 'Sharknose' book. BTW has anyone bought this title?

#229 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 13:35

Geza: check your PMs :)

#230 petefenelon

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 14:09

Originally posted by Geza Sury

Actually a friend of mine told me about the Jenkinson/Posthumus book. He found the text too difficult to understand saying it's too 'technical'. Perhaps he should improve his English :lol: Thanks for the review of the book :up: It makes me wonder now which one I should buy. DSJ and Cyril Posthumus are obviously great motorsport writers but I don't now anything about Mr Mcdonough. I only know that it was him, who wrote the new Ferrari 'Sharknose' book. BTW has anyone bought this title?


I have the Jenks/Posthumus Vanwall book, and pretty much agree with Vitesse - it is an ugly little thing, with horrid typography (sans-serif faces are for computer screens and for headings, not for body text in print!!!) and indifferent photo repro, but what's in there (particularly about the early years and twilight of the team, and the way the top drivers worked with the team to develop the cars) is fascinating and well-told. Only a few passages read like vintage Jenks - I rather get the impression Cyril Posthumus put most of the history together and Jenks spiced it up with anecdotes and details he'd seen on his travels - but it's still highly readable and the nearest thing to a definitive history of the cars and engines.

There is quite a lot of technical material in there, certainly relative to most histories of more recent vehicles, but I think a degree of technical insight into the Vanwall is particularly appropriate as it was a very distinctive car.

Prices for it seem to have fallen over the past few years - it was in the 80-100 quid range in the late 90s, and I bought my copy in '01 for about 50.

#231 petefenelon

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 14:13

My copy of Mr McKinney's 250F book arrived this morning - what a splendid piece of work it looks to be! - loads of good photos, some excellent analysis of the design and development of the cars, and clear exposition of their histories. Fuller review to follow....

(And sensibly-priced too - I wish more publishers of 'our kind of books' would take note!)

#232 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 14:33

Originally posted by petefenelon
My copy of Mr McKinney's 250F book arrived this morning - what a splendid piece of work it looks to be! - loads of good photos, some excellent analysis of the design and development of the cars, and clear exposition of their histories. Fuller review to follow....

(And sensibly-priced too - I wish more publishers of 'our kind of books' would take note!)

Pete, I am roughly 50% through Mr. McKinney's new 250F book, and I concur. A good piece of work, at a reasonable price.

#233 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 20:25

Re Vanwall - I would hope I am always helpful to other researchers and writers and would-be authors, and I try always to be at least constructively critical if I'm asked to review anything because I will usually recognise how much body and heart and soul has been put into such a project.

Since I am preserving all DSJ and Cyril's original Vanwall technical files and correspondence files, plus the team's surviving lap charts, chassis books, engine logbooks etc - I'm pretty astonished to hear of a new book on the subject being produced without any approach having been made to me perhaps to inspect this unique core source of information....

I'm then doubly confused when the same author's last book seemed to draw on pretty much the same ground I covered in a book I researched and wrote on Dino Ferraris about 25 years ago.....???????

I'm then trebly confused when we hold such a wealth of photographic material covering both marques and models....and we've never been asked even to show the geezer in question any of this material.

It's a mystery.


And it sure beats me......... :confused:

DCN

#234 Geza Sury

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 06:14

Hmmmm.... This is very interesting! It says a lot about the forthcoming Vanwall book's qualities! I guess I must stick to the Jenkinson/Posthumus book whateever the price is...

#235 petefenelon

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 11:04

A semi-random bunch of the latest ebay bargains... if anyone's interested. I've no connection with any of the sellers, just noticed that they had interesting books at good prices!

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=29763 - a nice copy of "Private Entrant" for a fiver...

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=29763 - a rather knackered copy of Pom vol. 2

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=29763 - interesting collection of books on saloon car racing in the 60s/70s including Nick Brittan's classic

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=29763 - TASO Mathieson's Grand Prix Racing 1906-14 - seems to have a high-ish reserve on it -- feel free to outbid me!

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=30134 - very cheap copy of 'Graham'.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=30134 - Patrick Stephens' book on his 750 special

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=30134 - 500 Miles To Go - story of Indy

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=30134 - DCN's Autocourse History of the GP Car 1966-85 for a derisory 7 quid!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=30134 - 1959 paperback of Champion Year for 3 quid

#236 VAR1016

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 11:22

Appropos of nothing in particular, I have located and purchased a copy of Sir Henry Birkin's "Full Throttle".

I am anticipating a red-blooded, non-PC, enjoyable read.

I do hope that shall not be disappointed!

PdeRL

#237 Fred Gallagher

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 15:00

Originally posted by Doug Nye
I'm then trebly confused when we hold such a wealth of photographic material covering both marques and models....and we've never been asked even to show the geezer in question any of this material.

It's a mystery.

DCN


I get the feeling that someone like Doug (or Sir Douglas as it should be after BRM Vol.2) does a load of original research and that that book then becomes the basis of research for lazy authors. It would be interesting to see a minor but obvious deliberate mistake inserted to find out just who cuts and pastes.

The newer books like 156 probably sell to people who already have Dino because of modern photo reproduction. I bought it but can't say I've read more than the odd paragraph - unlike BRM or my other recommendation, Gozzi on Ferrari.

#238 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 15:12

Originally posted by Fred Gallagher
It would be interesting to see a minor but obvious deliberate mistake inserted to find out just who cuts and pastes.


Back in the 80s, Platform 5 Publishing successfully sued Ian Allan Ltd for plagiarising their trainspotting books. P5 worked out that IA were just copying their books (into which P5 were putting a lot of research and money) and republishing the exact same info at a lower price. So they put some deliberate errors in, sat back and waited ... :lol:

#239 Don Capps

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 15:48

....just like what has happened to Paul Sheldon & crew when folks cheerfully copied material not realizing that there were addenda......

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#240 PRD

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 18:42

[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
[B]A semi-random bunch of the latest ebay bargains... if anyone's interested. I've no connection with any of the sellers, just noticed that they had interesting books at good prices!

[
http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=29763 - a rather knackered copy of Pom vol. 2


******
Thanks for the plug , Pete- that one's mine. I managed to replace it with a better copy from a bookshop in the US.
It's complete and all the fold-out drawings are all OK, but as in the description some of the black and white photographic plates must have got wet and stuck together so were torn when someone (not me) tried to separate them.
If anyone wants more info, then perhaps they had better mail me off list.

Better a knackered Pom than no Pom at all...
Rgds
Paul

#241 PRD

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 19:06

Originally posted by Michael Oliver


I think I can probably help on that one :D

We've just (this week) had some pre-production samples back from the printer, which we will be taking down to the Goodwood Festival this weekend to give to the booksellers exhibiting there. So there will be copies to look at but not to take away :(

The book has now been printed and will go on sale in the next few weeks, all things being equal...

Hope this helps!

Michael Oliver


I spent some time at Goodwood at the bookshops and it was interesting to hear Chaters trying to convince a German visitor that he couldn't buy the book and the old chap at Horton's books give the distinct impression that he had been given an exclusive preview copy as a personal favour by the author.

It does look a brilliant book and I hope that Michael hasn't lost out by missing the FoS

While browsing I was trying to price Pomeroy's GP Car (see previous post for the reason), but no-one priced them except Chater's who were asking £650 for a matched pair first edition with not very brilliant dust jacket.

(Before anyone asks I got my new Vol 2 for $200.)
Rgds
Paul

#242 ensign14

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 21:09

Originally posted by Vitesse2

So they put some deliberate errors in, sat back and waited ... :lol:

Mapmakers do this also - where I live, according to the A-Z, is a little cul de sac rather than a block with a drive. It's called fingerprinting and there was a pretty big case 4-5 years ago about it. (They do not put in big errors - sort of straightening slight bends or misplacing apostrophes.)

#243 Doug Nye

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 09:43

Originally posted by Fred Gallagher
It would be interesting to see a minor but obvious deliberate mistake inserted to find out just who cuts and pastes....


Crikey Fred - there are sufficient mistakes made which aren't deliberate.... :blush:

DCN

#244 petefenelon

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 10:48

Originally posted by Doug Nye


Crikey Fred - there are sufficient mistakes made which aren't deliberate.... :blush:

DCN


Perhaps it's worth putting a couple of pages on the TouTou in if you ever revise and update '66-'91 ;)

#245 Doug Nye

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 21:37

What Pete? Tired of the chase?????  ;)

DCN

#246 petefenelon

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 01:03

Originally posted by Doug Nye
What Pete? Tired of the chase?????  ;)

DCN


Oh no, far from it ;) - but were some, er, carefully crafted disinformation about it to appear in a book by an Authoritative Scribe how long before it started appearing in all those "Complete and Utter Unofficial Grand Prix Encyclopedia of World F1" books that come out every Christmas (25 quid, pictures of Senna and Schumacher on the cover, and content nicked from all the usual suspects ;))

You know.... "the Toutou F1/74 was to have been powered by a novel engine derived from four two-cylinder air-cooled Panhard motors on a common crankcase. It was to use Citroen-inspired hydraulic suspension and power-steering, and featured bodywork designed by Max Sardou and Luigi Colani after a night on absinthe. Drivers were to be Jean Max and Max Jean (until they realised that the they were one and the same person). Sponsorship was to have come from Sylvia Kristel. Sadly, the commercial and artistic failure of the later Emmanuelle films, combined with the oil crisis, meant the end of the project, although one of the incomplete cars was later completed with a turbocharged MGB engine and hillclimbed by Roy James whilst on day-release from prison..."

That kind of thing ;)

#247 VAR1016

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 08:44

Originally posted by petefenelon



You know.... "the Toutou F1/74 was to have been powered by a novel engine derived from four two-cylinder air-cooled Panhard motors on a common crankcase. It was to use Citroen-inspired hydraulic suspension and power-steering, and featured bodywork designed by Max Sardou and Luigi Colani after a night on absinthe. Drivers were to be Jean Max and Max Jean (until they realised that the they were one and the same person). Sponsorship was to have come from Sylvia Kristel. Sadly, the commercial and artistic failure of the later Emmanuelle films, combined with the oil crisis, meant the end of the project, although one of the incomplete cars was later completed with a turbocharged MGB engine and hillclimbed by Roy James whilst on day-release from prison..."

That kind of thing ;)


:rotfl:

Full marks Pete; that is really very good.

PdeRL

#248 Pete Stowe

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 19:13

Originally posted by Doug Nye


Crikey Fred - there are sufficient mistakes made which aren't deliberate.... :blush:

DCN

Like page 11 of BRM vol 2 you mean? :cool:

#249 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 19:57

Pete - hey, you mean you missed page 10? :blush:

DCN

#250 Pete Stowe

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 06:41

Page 10? - looks perfickly ok to me :drunk: