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The book thread: In memory of Pete Fenelon


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#3251 helioseism

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 05:40

Do you know if the CART/CHAMP carried IRL as well or just the one series?


Just the one series. If you want earlier IRL annuals there are these:

Indy Review Vol. 01 1991
Indy Review Vol. 02 1992
Indy Review Vol. 03 1993
Indy Review Vol. 04 1994
Indy Review Vol. 05 1995
Indy Review Vol. 06 1996
Indy Review Vol. 07 1997
Indy Review Vol. 08 1998
Indy Review Vol. 09 1999
Indy Review Vol. 10 2000
Indy Review Vol. 11 2001

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#3252 jph

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:57

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I haven't read it, but David Dowse's "Morgan at Le Mans" might fit the bill.


Yes, as an account at what's involved in getting a team to Le Mans on a shoestring, it's a very good story. The author certainly does not look at life through rose-tinted spectacles and for anyone thinks that the nasty effects of pushy dad syndrome is just something we moan about on this forum, it should be compulsory reading.

If the Panoz one to which Ensign 14 refers is 'The Race': very superficial, some nice photography but nothing out of the ordinary.

Not books, I know, but the DVDs produced as behind-the scenes accounts of Rollcentre Racing's Le Mans campaigns in 2006 (Le Mans: In the Lap of the Gods) and 2007 (Le Mans: Chasing the Dream) are excellent. Again, warts-and-all accounts.

#3253 petefenelon

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 20:23

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I haven't read it, but David Dowse's "Morgan at Le Mans" might fit the bill.


It certainly has a lot to say about life at the far end of the pit lane, and about the sheer enthusiasm and determination it takes to get a car onto the grid. It turns into a bit of a diatribe about Pushy Dads. But since I loathe, despise and abjure all manifestations of Formula Pushy Dad I agree very strongly with Dowse on that front.;)

#3254 petefenelon

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 20:24

Originally posted by jph


Yes, as an account at what's involved in getting a team to Le Mans on a shoestring, it's a very good story. The author certainly does not look at life through rose-tinted spectacles and for anyone thinks that the nasty effects of pushy dad syndrome is just something we moan about on this forum, it should be compulsory reading.


Snap! ;P

#3255 josefk

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 22:41

Many Thanks, have you heard of Floyd Clymer's Indianapolis 500 Mile Race Yearbooks? I was told these were earier than the Autocourse guides and are quite collectable but I have no info and have never seen one.



Originally posted by helioseism


Just the one series. If you want earlier IRL annuals there are these:

Indy Review Vol. 01 1991
Indy Review Vol. 02 1992
Indy Review Vol. 03 1993
Indy Review Vol. 04 1994
Indy Review Vol. 05 1995
Indy Review Vol. 06 1996
Indy Review Vol. 07 1997
Indy Review Vol. 08 1998
Indy Review Vol. 09 1999
Indy Review Vol. 10 2000
Indy Review Vol. 11 2001



#3256 ensign14

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 23:20

He did them from 1946 to 1968, the first was technically called a supplement to his Indy 500 race history (which was basically press cuttings and results tables up to 1941). They got more professional and better as time went on; the first couple are almost pamphlets. The expensive ones are 1958 and 1961...generally £20-40 an issue but you can pay five times for those two. No consistent format, generally an unsorted bundle of articles and photos.

#3257 antonvrs

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 23:39

A year or so I signed up to reserve a copy of the forthcoming Phil Hill/Doug Nye book of Phil's photography from his long career in motor racing. I checked their website today and found no mention of this book.
Maybe DCN could give me/us an update?
Best regards,
Anton

#3258 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 23:53

I received an email a few weeks ago from the proprietor of the web site, and it wasn't encouraging. Apparently Mr. Hill's health has sadly deteriorated to the point that the release of the book has been delayed. However, the book is still on the web site. Perhaps DCN could give us some (encouraging) information on the progress of the book and Mr. Hill's condition.

Jack

#3259 helioseism

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 02:55

With respect to Indy 500 yearbooks, the 1967 edition of the Clymer series is also expensive and hard to find. Carl Hungness took up the publication of the yearbook, with one that covered four years 1969-1972, and then annually 1973-1997. Donald Davidson published a yearbook in 1974 and 1975. Finally, there was a series published by Lee Norquist from 1963 to 1991 first titled The Fabulous Novi Story (to 1971), and then the Fabulous 500 Race History. The Norquist books are very rare, but also not really worth looking for. If you want the good stuff, go for the Clymer and Hungness books. Also, Clymer published the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race History in 1945, which collects contemporary magazine race reports for the pre-war races.

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#3260 fbarrett

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 00:23

Friends:

Wow, this is a LONG thread!

Some of you might like to know about Genesis of Genius, an upcoming Karl Ludvigsen title covering Ferdinand Porsche's early career. It's due from Bentley Publishing this summer, evidently funded partly by Ferdinand Piech. Limited edition of only 500, price $275 in the U.S., with no retailer's discount! (I wonder what the publisher would do if someone bought the entire print run and marked them up accordingly.)

To this Porsche and Mercedes-Benz bookseller since 1978, this approach seems to be just another nail in the coffin of motoring book retailers. In the old daze, major publishers and distributors in the U.S. sold to their retail customers at retail prices and to wholesale customers at the appropriate discount, but now some undercut their loyal retailers with "sales" on their own web sites and by selling to Amazon. In fact, retailers can buy some books cheaper via Amazon than from their wholesalers. I've done it!

Having been a long-time small-time bookseller, author, editor, a big-time reader, and even a one-time publisher and importer, I'm not enjoying the current state of the motoring book world, but at least this thread demonstrates that strong interest remains in good books. Despite the prophecies of the internet (I refuse to capitalize that word) taking over, there will always be a market for hard-copy books, especially those of quality.

For instance, here in the U.S., David Bull and Coterie Press have found ways to make such publishing work. Their books are excellent and priced accordingly. And for a retailer, they are easier to sell than the usual gray dross. While Motorbooks International has descended to hawking $20 paperbacks on gas stations and old tractors, its founder Tom Warth, through his more recent Transportation Book Service (Enthusiast Books) has been importing all the esoteric titles that Motorbooks has spurned. This retailer now orders far more books from Tom than from Motorbooks. If you have a specialist book that you want to see sold in the U.S., contact Tom.

For motoring book buyers, one interesting benefit of the internet is that prices of rare automotive books have dropped because they are now easier to find on the web. U.S. book collectors can't just nip down to Chater & Scott or Silverstone, so here the web rules. Hence this longtime mail-order bookseller is about to join in with an Amazon connection.

I could go on, and on. Your thoughts?

Frank Barrett
Toad Hall Motorbooks
www.toadhallbook.com (Is this allowed? If not, please excuse and ignore!) (Or, as the vanity license plate read, "XQQQME")

#3261 Mark A

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 13:24

I've had "Inside IMSA's Legendary GTP Race Cars: The Prototype Experience" by J. A. Martin & Mike Fuller on order with Amazon for about 6 months and I've just had another email telling me it's been delayed again.

Does anyone know for sure when it will make an appearance?

#3262 ensign14

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 14:04

Originally posted by fbarrett
To this Porsche and Mercedes-Benz bookseller since 1978, this approach seems to be just another nail in the coffin of motoring book retailers. In the old daze, major publishers and distributors in the U.S. sold to their retail customers at retail prices and to wholesale customers at the appropriate discount, but now some undercut their loyal retailers with "sales" on their own web sites and by selling to Amazon. In fact, retailers can buy some books cheaper via Amazon than from their wholesalers. I've done it!

Whether the amazon thing will last is another story, in that I can imagine the discounts for niche titles being phased out. The thing that amazes me is that people CAN make some sort of a living publishing books about Can-Am mechanics or whatnot, I'm glad there's a sufficiently big market out there.

#3263 VWV

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 00:21

Mark A regarding "Inside IMSA's Legendary GTP Race Cars: The Prototype Experience"

From Mike Fuller at http://www.mulsannescorner.com/

Book update. I've been fielding quite a few questions regarding the IMSA GTP book and have been remise in the complete lack of updates. The book is currently with the printers and Motor Books International is indicating that the "warehouse" date is April 4(!!). That puts us about 5 months behind the original schedule and about 2 month behind the revised schedule.

#3264 fbarrett

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 21:47

Originally posted by josefk
Many Thanks, have you heard of Floyd Clymer's Indianapolis 500 Mile Race Yearbooks? I was told these were earier than the Autocourse guides and are quite collectable but I have no info and have never seen one.




Josef:

Floyd Clymer's Indianapolis Yearbooks started in 1946 with a large volume containing the history of the races before that year. He also published a driver history at that time plus a 1946 supplement covering that year's event. From then on, he published annuals after each race. The last I have is 1959, though they may have gone later. Carl Hungness then picked up the ball, publishing his annual Indy Yearbooks; I don't know when these ended, but I believe the Speedway now publishes something similar. My pal John Chuhran collects all of these yearbooks and may have some duplicates; he's at jtchuhran@netscape.com, and he may monitor this forum.

Frank

#3265 ensign14

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 22:37

The last Clymer was 1968, the first Hungness 1973, but Hungness did a catch-up volume later for the missing years. His last before Tony Stalin forced him out for speaking his mind was 1997. There hasn't been an Indy one for some years, the Indy Reviews were not fit for wiping one's backside with, and only useful for digging out quotes to demonstrate the Genetic Lottery Winner's hypocrisy.

#3266 Mark A

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 12:10

Originally posted by VWV
Mark A regarding "Inside IMSA's Legendary GTP Race Cars: The Prototype Experience"

From Mike Fuller at http://www.mulsannescorner.com/

Book update. I've been fielding quite a few questions regarding the IMSA GTP book and have been remise in the complete lack of updates. The book is currently with the printers and Motor Books International is indicating that the "warehouse" date is April 4(!!). That puts us about 5 months behind the original schedule and about 2 month behind the revised schedule.


Cheers.

#3267 fines

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 17:27

Originally posted by ensign14
The last Clymer was 1968, the first Hungness 1973, but Hungness did a catch-up volume later for the missing years. His last before Tony Stalin forced him out for speaking his mind was 1997. There hasn't been an Indy one for some years, the Indy Reviews were not fit for wiping one's backside with, and only useful for digging out quotes to demonstrate the Genetic Lottery Winner's hypocrisy.

Sorry to see you lower your standards to Buford niveau! :(

Having an opinion is one thing, even if it's patently wrong, but using language like this shows you are not prepared to listen to reason, and just makes yourself look foolish and small.

#3268 ensign14

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 18:46

Given my opinion of how the Speedway treated Hungness, I think that's raising my opinion somewhat.

#3269 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 20:27

Originally posted by helioseism
Here is the history of the Autocourse American Open Wheel annuals:

CART Annuals
-----------------------------------------------
Autocourse Indy Car Official Yearbook 1993-1994
Autocourse Indy Car Official Yearbook 1994-1995 Cosworth promotional edition also exists
Autocourse Indy Car Official Yearbook 1995-1996
Autocourse Indy Car Official Yearbook 1996-1997
Autocourse CART Official Yearbook 1997-1998
Autocourse CART Official Yearbook 1998-1999
Autocourse CART Official Yearbook 1999-2000
Autocourse CART Official Yearbook 2000-2001
Autocourse CART Official Yearbook 2001-2002
Autocourse CART Official Yearbook 2002-2003
Autocourse Champ Car Official Yearbook 2003-2004
Autocourse Champ Car Official Yearbook 2004-2005
Autocourse Champ Car Official Yearbook 2005-2006

IRL annuals
----------------------------------------------------
Autocourse Indianapolis 500 Official Yearbook 2003 & Indy Racing League IndyCar Series
Autocourse Indianapolis 500 Official Yearbook 2004 & Indy Racing League IndyCar Series


Earlier annuals are in the "Men And Machines" series:
-----------------------------------------------------
Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing - CART 1987-1988 STP promotional edition also exists
Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing - CART 1988-1989 Amway promotional edition also exists
Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing - CART 1989-1990 Amway promotional edition also exists
Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing - CART 1990-1991
Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing - CART 1991-1992
Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing - Indy Car 1992/1993
Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing - Indy Car 1993/1994


Originally posted by helioseism
Just the one series. If you want earlier IRL annuals there are these:

Indy Review Vol. 01 1991
Indy Review Vol. 02 1992
Indy Review Vol. 03 1993
Indy Review Vol. 04 1994
Indy Review Vol. 05 1995
Indy Review Vol. 06 1996
Indy Review Vol. 07 1997
Indy Review Vol. 08 1998
Indy Review Vol. 09 1999
Indy Review Vol. 10 2000
Indy Review Vol. 11 2001


The Indy Reviews are generally worthless, very poor, and usually devoid of anything resembling information. Much the same can be said for the Men And Machines Of Indy Car Racing books.

The CART Annuals, Media Guides, Record Books, and what have you that first appeared in 1981 can be very useful, but after the 1985 Media Guide Ken McMaken and John Glenn Printz were dropped for what could best be described as political reasons so there is cause to approach the historical information after that with some caution.

The USAC yearbooks vary widely in content and quality, beginning with a very basic one for the 1956 season to where they at least had results of the championship events and information on the other divisions; I finally gave up on them around the early 1980s.

The Hungness volumes tend to be consistently eccentric as well was eclectic, a feat of some imagination.

#3270 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 21:11

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad
I received an email a few weeks ago from the proprietor of the web site, and it wasn't encouraging. Apparently Mr. Hill's health has sadly deteriorated to the point that the release of the book has been delayed. However, the book is still on the web site. Perhaps DCN could give us some (encouraging) information on the progress of the book and Mr. Hill's condition.

Jack


Phil has good days and bad days - the delay to the book is ENTIRELY down to me and my working practises. It is well advanced and will emerge as a standard-setter - we intend - bringing now only Phil's fantastic colour phtography to the market - 1948-1962 - but also telling the story in his words as the most intelligent, most insightful, most capable car-nut-from-birth-cum-world-class-racing-driver-cum-World-Champion there has ever been... My apologies to all for the delay - including Phil and his great family. But please trust us. It is for me THE most important book project with which I have ever been associated...

DCN

#3271 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 22:21

Thank you, Doug, for those reassuring words. This book is bound to be wonderful. Coincidentally, the last time I anticipated a book so eagerly was when I was a mere 15, waiting for Phil Hill: Yankee Champion to arrive. We'll leave you alone to get back to it now. (See you at Revival!).

Jack.

#3272 bradbury west

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 00:42

DCN, I know it goes without saying, but please pass on the kindest good wishes to PTH from all TNFers who hold him in such high regard.
Roll on the book's arrival
Roger Lund

#3273 MichaelJP

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 10:21

I always call into Motor Books for a browse when I'm in central London, and picked up "Porsche High-Performance Driving Handbook" by Vic Elford, bargain price at £6.99:) It's quirky and not really a performance driving book, but has some nice anecdotes about Vic's driving in the Targa Florio, in the 917 and so on. A pleasant surprise.

They also had his autobiography but I didn't get it immediately, anyone know if it's any good?

#3274 petefenelon

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 16:47

Originally posted by MichaelJP
They also had his autobiography but I didn't get it immediately, anyone know if it's any good?


Yes. Crisply written, ego-free, witty, self-deprecating, atmospheric and well-illustrated. Loads of insight into Porsche. Vic comes over as not only tough, quick and versatile but also as one of the Good Guys.

#3275 red stick

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 18:48

Originally posted by petefenelon
Yes. Crisply written, ego-free, witty, self-deprecating, atmospheric and well-illustrated. Loads of insight into Porsche. Vic comes over as not only tough, quick and versatile but also as one of the Good Guys.


:up:

For that matter, all of the bios/memoirs published by David Bull have been pretty good.

#3276 petefenelon

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 18:52

Originally posted by red stick


:up:

For that matter, all of the bios/memoirs published by David Bull have been pretty good.


They're all highly readable, but I will hold out a criticism of the photo repro in some of them - bit murky at times - and proofing and subbing could be improved. Still, anyone who's brought us books by John Horsman, Vic Elford and Peter Bryant, plus Mike Argetsinger's excellent Walt Hansgen bio is doing something right.

Looking like a good year for books about Proper Drivers, what with Brian Redman, 'Whizzo' Williams, Gordon Spice and the PTH/DCN book all in the pipeline.

#3277 David Beard

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 19:49

Originally posted by Doug Nye

It is for me THE most important book project with which I have ever been associated...

DCN


Err...might be a bit of a good book then...


:smoking:

#3278 petefenelon

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 20:12

Incidentally, in an inverse 'first cuckoo of spring' sort of moment, I finally found a copy of Autocourse 2007-08 today! - a couple of shrink-wrapped copies had turned up in my local Waterstones. Nice to see it taking A1GP almost as seriously as GP2.

#3279 red stick

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 14:42

[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
They're all highly readable, but I will hold out a criticism of the photo repro in some of them - bit murky at times - and proofing and subbing could be improved. Still, anyone who's brought us books by John Horsman, Vic Elford and Peter Bryant, plus Mike Argetsinger's excellent Walt Hansgen bio is doing something right.

Looking like a good year for books about Proper Drivers, what with Brian Redman, 'Whizzo' Williams, Gordon Spice and the PTH/DCN book all in the pipeline.
[QUOTE]

And Gordon Kirby's coming bio of Rick Mears.

Point taken. What I find impressive is the quality of the writing, sourcing, and subject-matter, which is to say, someone's actually publishing good books about sports car racing!





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#3280 ensign14

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 14:46

Originally posted by Doug Nye
THE most important book project with which I have ever been associated...

DCN

Interesting you say that, Doug, given there's already a Phil Hill biography...suggests that there is a LOT more to the story to come that we haven't even dreamed of.

#3281 philippe charuest

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:06

never bought "yankee champion" cause in general those bio of the sixties were kind of tin in content and written in the "life of saints " style, but this new book on P.Hill by MR.Nye, i will buy for sure. base on the interview of hill that i read in magazines , he seem to be a very bright man , and a guy and that what is rare who is able to keep a distance and have an honest an unedulcorated view of his carreer and era

#3282 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 18:11

Probably little to no interest here since it does not deal with a British or formula one topic, but Liz Clarke, the motor sports writer for of my local paper, The Washington Post, has a new book out. It is entitled One Helluva Ride: How NASCAR Swept the Nation, Villard, ISBN 978-0-345-49988-2. As always, Clarke provides a book that is worth taking the time to sit down and read, helping to put some things in a bit of perspective, since it is also one of the better written books on this topic.

The Post does not utilize her enough in my opinion, but, then again, motor racing is not a very hot sports topic in a town with a glut of professional teams.

Given that NASCAR is not going to fade from the scene, regardless of how much some wish it would, this is a far better overview of the world of NASCAR at the Cup leven than the usual tripe that finds its way to the bookshelves. It does a good job of laying out the appeal of drivers such as Junior Johnson and Dale Earnhardt as well as the expansion into Mexico and Canada.

Clarke's book is definitely one of the books I would recommend for someone just beginning to get involved with NASCAR racing and wanting some background on the sport.

#3283 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 19:55

COLIN SEELEY, RACER........AND THE REST by Colin Seeley (ISBN0-9544357-1-0).

This book is by far the best presented book on motorcycle racing I've ever had the pleasure to read. A bit wider than A4 and 283 pages, printed on heavyweight glossy paper, the photos are superbly reproduced in a sort of not quite black or sepia. Every page seems to have four or five pictures including odds and ends like programme covers, tickets and even school reports. Seeley tells a fascinating story from his youth in NW Kent and his motorcycling times at Johnson's Cafe, to his start in sidecar racing.He never quite reached the very top in sidecar racing mainly because he could never compete with the Germans and their BMW Rennsport engines. Even when he finally got hold of a fire damaged outfit with a Rennsport engine, the factory were very tight fisted with spares favouring the German riders. The second half of the book tells the story of his AJS/Matchless engined Seeley racing bikes and he doesn't pull any punches with his opinion of John Blanchard. Although he claims to be friendly to Derek Minter, he doesn't come over too well. The text does get a bit repetitive at times with endless race results, but two things really grated with me, the typos with one seemingly every couple of pages ('Motorcycle' rather than 'Motor Cycle', 'Motorcycling' rather than 'Motor Cycling'), and his use of nicknames. Bill Ivy get's called 'Little Bill', the Pocket Rocket', 'Maidstone Marvel' and the 'Maidstone Flyer' again and again, and sometimes all three in the same paragraph. So when 'Banbury Dan', 'Cooperman' (sometimes 'Mooneyes'), and the 'Ruislip Rebel' were in the same race, it could get a bit too much.

A beautifully presented book though and Volume 2, which covers his time with Brabham and BE, is out about now.

PS In fact Redline Books now tell me that Volume 2 is due out in October/November this year.

#3284 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 07:26

:wave: Good review Paul , might buy it ! Thanks!

Now, has anyone got or seen the new Karl Ludvigsen Red-Hot rivals ? Any comments ?

#3285 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:49

Sterling49

You asked about the Barry Sheene book. There are at least five books on Barry Sheene available so I'm presuming you mean BARRY; THE STORY OF MOTORCYCLING LEGEND, BARRY SHEENE by Steve Parrish & Nick Harris. I've not read the book but I've heard that it may well be a 'cut & paste' story with nothing new added.

Read the customer's comments on Amazon.co.uk and make your own conclusions.

Two paperbacks you might like to consider, and can often be found cheaply in charity shops where I do the majority of my book buying, are -

BARRY SHEENE, A WILL TO WIN by Michael Scott (ISBN 0-352-31353-6)

BARRY SHEENE, THE STORY SO FAR by Barry Sheene (ISBN 0-352-30143-0)

#3286 Jim Thurman

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 20:42

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Probably little to no interest here since it does not deal with a British or formula one topic, but Liz Clarke, the motor sports writer for of my local paper, The Washington Post, has a new book out. It is entitled One Helluva Ride: How NASCAR Swept the Nation, Villard, ISBN 978-0-345-49988-2. As always, Clarke provides a book that is worth taking the time to sit down and read, helping to put some things in a bit of perspective, since it is also one of the better written books on this topic.

The Post does not utilize her enough in my opinion, but, then again, motor racing is not a very hot sports topic in a town with a glut of professional teams.

Given that NASCAR is not going to fade from the scene, regardless of how much some wish it would, this is a far better overview of the world of NASCAR at the Cup leven than the usual tripe that finds its way to the bookshelves. It does a good job of laying out the appeal of drivers such as Junior Johnson and Dale Earnhardt as well as the expansion into Mexico and Canada.

Clarke's book is definitely one of the books I would recommend for someone just beginning to get involved with NASCAR racing and wanting some background on the sport.


Don, I perused Clarke's book, and aside from the term "How NASCAR Swept The Nation" coming at a time when TV ratings continue an ever increasing downward spiral and more and more empty seats are found at the races, I found a couple of glaring issues. Perhaps the first is an editing error, but more likely both are from poor choices in research sources.

In discussing NASCAR's (modern day) expansion to California, Clarke wrote that Riverside and Ontario both failed due to lack of interest and financial difficulties. Ummm, no. Ontario obviously collapsed under ridiculously poor financial non-planning, but not Riverside. And lack of interest is simply shoddy reportage.

And while it's always enlightening to see yet another version of the Jeff Gordon story, Clarke has several elements of his ascension wrong, but then again, the people telling her aren't exactly forthright and unbiased.

The Jeff Gordon story (which when told even by the prinicpals, changes every time) is one that has perpetuated and been incorrectly repeated so often it's become modern mythology. To go along with the Gordon ideologists (theologists might be a more apt term) that his move to NASCAR is what doomed CART is questionable at best and should prompt more questions that were unasked. Here she has not only perpetuated and re-iterated it, but added to it.

Every writer seems to take anything said by the Gordon camp as absolute fact. Yet there are strong implications and evidence of ugliness right beneath the surface. One being the ever changing story and it's discrepancies, not just over the years, but even at the time. It's all there, someone just needs to connect the dots. No one does.

But, in spite of this, I do like her writing style and the rest of it seems to be quite decent. I have trouble getting past these two issues though.

I'm afraid to see what she wrote about Tony Stewart as it was and is Gordon redux minus the pushy stepfather.

#3287 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 23:00

For those interested in the English version of The Brothers Rodriguez , I understand that it is tentatively scheduled for release this September from David Bull Publishing.

Jack

#3288 DN5

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 22:38

Just got hold of Brands Hatch - The definitive history of Britain's best-loved motor racing circuit by Chas Parker.

Looks pretty good from a quick flick through.

Can't see anybody else having mentioned it recently.

Geoff

#3289 glyn parham

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:50

Just got hold of Brands Hatch - The definitive history of Britain's best-loved motor racing circuit by Chas Parker.




I recieved my copy last week as well but I haven't had time to give it more than a glance. It certainly looks interesting and it is good to see how it concentrates on the development of the cicuit rather than who won what and when.

Glyn

#3290 Mark A

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 22:49

Originally posted by RS2000
Sorry Lewis, none of the 6 books about you are on my Xmas list. This will be, if out in time.
Posted Image


I've had an email to say the printing of this book has been delayed due to a change of printer, looks like delivery in the middle of April now.

#3291 green-blood

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 10:33

hey guys

I wonder could I bother you guys for a bit of help tracking down a book.

I picked up at a boot sale "Lost Causes of Motoring - europe Vol 1, Lord Montagu of B" Which I enjoyed greatly, this week on Ebay I snaffled the edition covering UK manufacturers, however I cant find Europ Vol II anywhere - any help, hints, tips.... I'm only after a decent reading copy

#3292 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 10:56

There are currently several on ABEbooks - cheapest are £12.50 at Godley Books in Hyde and £15.00 at Bookbarn in Bristol.

#3293 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:58

Given that there might be some interest in how historians view the past -- or at least how one does, here are two reviews that mention the new Gordon Wood book, THE PURPOSE OF THE PAST, Reflections on the Uses of History:

Jonathan Yardley, The Washington Post

Jill Lepore, The New Yorker

The Lepore article addresses an issue that might be considered quite germane to the writing of motor sport history....

#3294 ensign14

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 12:22

I HAVE to take issue with the implications of this statement though...

Invention was a hallmark of ancient history, which was filled with long, often purely fictitious speeches of great men. It was animated by rhetoric, not by evidence.


Yes, there were lots of reported speeches in the works of Herodotos and Thucydides (a great deal less than in "500 Miles To Go", by the way). But Herodotos was not inventing things. He was reporting what other people had told him and he divulges a handful of his sources in his Histories. He was not judging what was true...

Thucydides was far more forensic in his approach and was trying to get at the facts. The speeches were self-admittedly not word for word but the gist of what was said - and were passages of high-flown prose to interrupt and illustrate the tight narrative of the Peloponnesian "War".

They were not inventing history.

And both of them were probably a great deal more accurate as historians than most historians from the fall of Rome to beyond Macauley. Archaeological evidence backs them up in surprising ways.

#3295 green-blood

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 13:12

Originally posted by Vitesse2
There are currently several on ABEbooks - cheapest are £12.50 at Godley Books in Hyde and £15.00 at Bookbarn in Bristol.


thanks, I completely forgot ABE, I left my last job before Christmas and all my links are still ona CD somewhere!!!!

cheers again

#3296 philippe charuest

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 18:53

what about that new book published by Haynes "analysing Formula 1 by Roger Smith" is he the new L.Pomeroy or W.Court ;)

#3297 COUGAR508

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 19:55

Originally posted by philippe charuest
what about that new book published by Haynes "analysing Formula 1 by Roger Smith" is he the new L.Pomeroy or W.Court ;)


I wasn't aware that this book had been published until you mentioned it. Does it contain more statistical analysis than glittering prose?

#3298 M Needforspeed

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 22:53

Originally posted by philippe charuest
what about that new book published by Haynes "analysing Formula 1 by Roger Smith" is he the new L.Pomeroy or W.Court ;)


Originally posted by COUGAR508


I wasn't aware that this book had been published until you mentioned it. Does it contain more statistical analysis than glittering prose?



I bought the book at the Jim Clark Festival at Eysham hall in February .Got the autograph from Smith .He has been both working on marketing survey for a long time and a long time Motor Racing enthusiast and follower .He told me he wanted to apply some of the things he used in his job, to the Motor Racing statistics ..

He regretted so much there has been in the past, mainly in the internet, so many attempts to try to put a classification on all time greatests F1 drivers,but which all have been rather dull, incomplete or partial ones.

Period covered goes from 1950 to Schumacher, but partial stats for Alonso , Hamilton and Raikkonen are inside as well.

So Roger Smith put his energy in many years research .The result worth every penny .I was happy to be the first crossing the channel ( Roger Smith dixit) with this book in my bag !

this book feel a hole regarding F1 statistics .it is a very in depth graphical demonstrations without any personal feelings : only crossing graphs with graphs .But the context of each era hasn 't been forgotten .Simply, this context has been transformed in numbers too .

A very rewarding reading, cause many new parameters have been introduced, casual statisticians didn 't put so far .
it is a complete coherent system of crossing diagrams . Smith did it, and he did with application. The more you 'll read, the more you 'll feel how much time consuming the task must have been to publish that work .

Below, the chapters , then an extract , with a graph and comments .Roughly 150 different graphs and dispersion coordinate tables .At the end, there is final podium among the "serious winners".A serious work, without doubt .

Roger Smith , I remember, didn 't want to give us the answer , so I will not put it there .Let say Roger Smith
is at least revealing thing that have not been demonstrated before, to those interested in F1 statitistics :

1 - statistics shows there has been 12 SERIAL WINNERS only

2 - he identified a "MAGNIFICIENT SEVEN" group among them


Michel

(I will edit and delete the images, if it infringe someone interest or copyright )

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#3299 green-blood

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 08:34

great stuff, thanks for that review. I'd seen this but was wondering if it might be a bit dry... there are lots of results books out there, I know who won what, when already. But this looks very thought provoking.

Just from that one graph its intersting to see how Schumacher dominates the graph, but also the suprising prominence fo Mansell

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#3300 Jim Thurman

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 19:53

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps

Jill Lepore, The New Yorker

The Lepore article addresses an issue that might be considered quite germane to the writing of motor sport history....


Well, yes and no. While presenting some valid points, it essentially presents a pissing match between 18th century literati, full of (among other things) the same egotism, pettiness, sanctimony that can be found at present.

Which does prove that some things do never change. And that is historical fact :)

Thanks for the link Don.