Jump to content


Photo

Alonso/Hamilton Hungary qualifying controversy (merged)


  • Please log in to reply
3698 replies to this topic

Poll: Alonso/Hamilton Hungary qualifying controversy (merged) (228 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Good - Excellent use of the rules (39 votes [17.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.18%

  2. Bad - Shows no regard for fairness (168 votes [74.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 74.01%

  3. No opinion (20 votes [8.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.81%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#101 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,860 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:57

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
so which is the bigger issue for McLaren?
the external or the internal one?

Ron is gonna lose all his hair :


The team is basically imploding and exploding at the same time.

While trying to hold on to a championship lead and a massive pace advantage, at least in this track.

Advertisement

#102 ExxonValdez

ExxonValdez
  • Member

  • 497 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:57

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Tomorrows race is going to be absolute dynamite.

A 2x World Champ so scared of a rookie that he has to resort to this sort of tactic. Where's exxonvaldez when you need him?


I'm here. I was a little bit shocked on live when I was seen it. Alonso was looking at the pit wall all the time instead the mechanics. But after hearing Alonso's words for Spanish TV it has more sense. The theory is that one of the McLaren's drivers would have an extra-lap to try to get the pole. Because Alonso couldn't have this extra-lap in Nurburgring (McLaren gives extra laps in those circuits which are shorter than 1.30"), he asked Hungaroring was his turn. Dennis decided that Hamilton would have this extra-lap today. I think Alonso's engineers acted in consequence: No extra-laps for anybody. He also was forced by the team to stop for a long time while Hamilton was burning oil in the track.

Alonso has been really hard against McLaren when he talked to the Spanish press: When someone asked him why the feeling of McLaren was almost tragic having both drivers in the pole, he replied: "That's because I'm in P1 today". Then the journalist said: "That's what you're saying sounds really hard". He replied: "What I'm saying is really hard and what I'm seeing is really hard".

That's the info I've got at this moment.

#103 Cheap Wine Alesi

Cheap Wine Alesi
  • Member

  • 2,723 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:57

Originally posted by inaki



Even in case that it was a deliberated tactic from Fernando, I think he is also a rebel inside an incredibly structured and rigid team. I think he feels asfixiated there.

We do not know if the pole was also fixed already and that was a reaction to prevent that.

:rolleyes:

#104 slapstick

slapstick
  • Member

  • 1,809 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:57

FA told at least one lie in the PC:

"The team held me back in this. We tried to have some space with the Ferrari (Raikkonen) in front of us."

As it was FA conveniently exited the pits when Kimi was on his hotlap. :rolleyes:

#105 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 2,927 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:58

:rotfl:

After the whole Stepneygate saga and the impending FIA appeal I bet that the last thing that Ron needed was to be back in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. :p

You could see it bubbling. Alonso braketested Kimi into the final corner in the fuel burn and somehow Kimi got by him, whether that was a mistake by Alonso or he was ordered by the team to let Kimi through I don't know but that lead to the exchange of words in pitbox and then to the actions in the final pitstop.

Goes to show how Hamilton has got under the skin of Alonso. He's been faster than him and its getting to him. He was sweating buckets in the press conference. Hamilton has him rattled.

Huge irony by ITV, Hill saying that Alonso's experience will help him in a pressure situation because he's been through it before so he should be better prepared than Hamilton. :lol:

A thumbs up to Hamilton for keeping his nerve. He was angry yet he was doing a PR favour to the team by not letting it get to him and saying that the team would respond to Alonso's actions. A mature thing to do in the circumstances.

Alonso...very very dirty. Can't say stuff about Michael after Monaco and then do it yourself. :down:

Personally if Michael got a penalty so should Alonso because he stopped a rival from setting a fast lap.

McLaren should show him that he works for the team not the otherway round. If you mess with the team the team will mess with you. McLaren should stop for 10 secs tomorrow in the pitstops for Alonso before getting back to work on the car. Should send a clear message to Alonso.

#106 snx843

snx843
  • Member

  • 855 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:58

Should take a 10 place penalty, dirty f*****, thats really bad, he is trusted by the team in that situation, he should be fired, total disregard for team-play, I am really sad about this.

#107 magicalonso

magicalonso
  • Member

  • 1,253 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:58

:lol: Whether or not he did in on purpose ...

watching the WronG one's face and smashing his headphones was so hilarious and made it more than worth it. :lol: :lol:

#108 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,840 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:58

Originally posted by condor
There should have been a poll on this thread - whether one thought Alonso was guilty of stitching Hamilton up or not etc.

Just from watching Alonso's expressions in the press conference talk, I'd have voted guilty.



Give him a fair trial....then hang him :lol:

#109 snx843

snx843
  • Member

  • 855 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:58

TERRIBLE, he should be banned from the event.

#110 CaptnMark

CaptnMark
  • Member

  • 1,016 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:59

I fully expect for Alonso to have a slow pitstop tomorrow, or a lost tyre, Ferrari style.

#111 Orin

Orin
  • Member

  • 8,444 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:59

Originally posted by airwise
The Stewards need to take matters into their own hands. It's a clear breach of sporting regulation 116 b and they are compelled to remove all of the cheating little arse's times.



We knew the guy was gutless from his behavior over the past few months but this takes the pale.


That would be more than just, it would be hysterically funny! Really, Alonso was moaning that Hamilton was beating him with his own set-ups, so he's apparently been hiding them, now it looks like Hamilton's going to beat him on Alonso's favourite track, so he pulls a stunt. There are no more excuses left for me.

#112 johnwilliamdavies

johnwilliamdavies
  • Member

  • 200 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 04 August 2007 - 13:59

Alonso reminded me of Senna today. He has absolutely zero desire to finish second, a proper racing driver.

#113 Cheap Wine Alesi

Cheap Wine Alesi
  • Member

  • 2,723 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:00

Originally posted by magicalonso
:lol: Whether or not he did in on purpose ...

watching the WronG one's face and smashing his headphones was so hilarious and made it more than worth it. :lol: :lol:

I hope McLaren screw him back tomorrow, the laugh I would have from that would be unforgettable :up:

#114 snx843

snx843
  • Member

  • 855 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:00

Originally posted by f1rules


exactly, i actually think that would be a very measured punishment from mclaren



Agreed, I'd throw some sand in the engine. Dirty bastard.

#115 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,860 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:00

Originally posted by ExxonValdez


I'm here. I was a little bit shocked on live when I was seen it. Alonso was looking at the pit wall all the time instead the mechanics. But after hearing Alonso's words for Spanish TV it has more sense. The theory is that one of the McLaren's drivers would have an extra-lap to try to get the pole. Because Alonso couldn't have this extra-lap in Nurburgring (McLaren gives extra laps in those circuits which are shorter than 1.30"), he asked Hungaroring was his turn. Dennis decided that Hamilton would have this extra-lap today. I think Alonso's engineers acted in consequence: No extra-laps for anybody. He also was forced by the team to stop for a long time while Hamilton was burning oil in the track.

Alonso has been really hard against McLaren when he talked to the Spanish press: When someone asked him why the feeling of McLaren was almost tragic having both drivers in the pole, he replied: "That's because I'm in P1 today". Then the journalist said: "That's what you're saying sounds really hard". He replied: "What I'm saying is really hard and what I'm seeing is really hard".

That's the info I've got at this moment.


The funny thing is that the only people that believe in Alonso's own theories of Alonso vs the world, are spanish.

#116 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,841 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:00

It would have been a better idea to stall. Just like Schumacher should have nudged the barrier. Win at all costs, good to see it didn't leave F1 with Schumacher.

#117 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:00

not enough options.

We don't know what was going on in the car - trouble selecting gears? Low revs? perhaps he did do it on purpose - but until there is an explanation, all of this ire, upset and speculation is meaningless.

#118 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,074 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:01

the more I see Alonso the more I like Raikkonen ;)

#119 inaki

inaki
  • Member

  • 2,421 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:01

Originally posted by AndreasF1
Alonso sucks. The hypocrite bitches at MS move in Monaco and then pulls the same stunt on his teammate. He cant beat Hamilton in a straight fight. What a looser :down: :down: :down:


Do not even compare this to Michael's at Monaco.

- You are supposing something you are not totally clear about.
- In case Alonso was the one who decided to hold up, McLaren has a 1-2 anyway, but not the 1-2 maybe Ron was pretending.
- Alonso has done a 19.6 with hards, which was a better time than previous attempt of Hamilton in supersofts.

Advertisement

#120 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 10,077 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:01

I still don't know what to think but it sure looks suspect.

#121 UPRC

UPRC
  • Member

  • 4,620 posts
  • Joined: February 99

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:01

My respect for Hamilton went up as a result of this though. He was very calm and collected on the outside and managed to put on a good face.

#122 K-One

K-One
  • Member

  • 5,917 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:02

The team always decides when I have to get moving," Alonso told Spanish reporters after qualifying.

"I know it looks that way because he lost the opportunity to do his lap, but even if I had left those five seconds earlier he wouldn't have made it anyway.

"I think the calculations were wrong. I'm sorry for him but I leave the pits when I'm told to."


Ron should just stick with Finnish drivers, no problems like this whatsoever ;)

#123 f1rules

f1rules
  • Member

  • 4,543 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:02

Originally posted by ExxonValdez


I'm here. I was a little bit shocked on live when I was seen it. Alonso was looking at the pit wall all the time instead the mechanics. But after hearing Alonso's words for Spanish TV it has more sense. The theory is that one of the McLaren's drivers would have an extra-lap to try to get the pole. Because Alonso couldn't have this extra-lap in Nurburgring (McLaren gives extra laps in those circuits which are shorter than 1.30"), he asked Hungaroring was his turn. Dennis decided that Hamilton would have this extra-lap today. I think Alonso's engineers acted in consequence: No extra-laps for anybody. He also was forced by the team to stop for a long time while Hamilton was burning oil in the track.

Alonso has been really hard against McLaren when he talked to the Spanish press: When someone asked him why the feeling of McLaren was almost tragic having both drivers in the pole, he replied: "That's because I'm in P1 today". Then the journalist said: "That's what you're saying sounds really hard". He replied: "What I'm saying is really hard and what I'm seeing is really hard".

That's the info I've got at this moment.



well with actions like this he wont get any sympathy, that be from the team or the fans

#124 mach4

mach4
  • Member

  • 1,873 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:02

A bit of both really. Brilliant tactical move because he managed to get the time exactly right.. it's only a window of 6 seconds or so. And also to think of that move in the middle of a contested qualifying takes a cool, calculating mind.

But of course it's also extremely bad sportsmanship and he might get burned for it, if not by the FIA, by the team and by the public in general.

By the way, I was disappointed with Peter Windsor in the press conference. He didn't ask the hard questions such as why Alonso didn't go given that the lollipop was up.

#125 BiH

BiH
  • Member

  • 2,340 posts
  • Joined: September 05

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:02

Ferrari should hire Emonso and fire Massa :lol:

#126 msam

msam
  • Member

  • 46 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:02

I had qualifying recorded. Went back and timed it. After the lollipop went up, Alonso stayed in place for 16 seconds. There was a mechanic behind Alonso who had his hand out, but that I believe is for Hamilton not to move forward.

The camera was zoomed on Alonso and so I could not see if someone was stopping Alonso from the front, but the lollipop was certainly not there.

#127 joachimvanwing

joachimvanwing
  • Member

  • 465 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:02

I don't know if what FA did, was deliberate.

He seemed to be having flaming discussions with the crew at monitors, while the mecanics didn't know who to listen to. You saw their head going left and right, back and fort from the engineer and Fernando. There was a little panic. And this happened on both occasions when FA went into the pits for tires. Tires I guess.

If this was all done on purpose by team Alonso, then it was perfectly executed.

#128 Hyatt

Hyatt
  • Member

  • 1,145 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:03

now Mclaren has every reason to throw Alonsos entourage out of the pits ... they are working aginst the team ... how stupid

#129 Cheap Wine Alesi

Cheap Wine Alesi
  • Member

  • 2,723 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:03

Originally posted by inaki



- Alonso has done a 19.6 with hards, which was a better time than previous attempt of Hamilton in supersofts.

LH with more fuel set a laptime that monobrow Alonso could barley beat. He was getting beaten by LH bigtime and he decided to behave like a jerk.

#130 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,860 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:03

Originally posted by inaki


Do not even compare this to Michael's at Monaco.

- You are supposing something you are not totally clear about.
- In case Alonso was the one who decided to hold up, McLaren has a 1-2 anyway, but not the 1-2 maybe Ron was pretending.
- Alonso has done a 19.6 with hards, which was a better time than previous attempt of Hamilton in supersofts.


The only two differences from this to Michael's stunt:

- Michael held up everyone in the track with his stunt, Alonso did not.
- Michael held up direct competitors, Alonso held up his team-mate.

It sure as hell is comparable and I'd put it in the same level of unsportsmanship and cockiness.

#131 Scudetto

Scudetto
  • Member

  • 8,053 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:03

Originally posted by joachimvanwing
If this was all done on purpose by team Alonso, then it was perfectly executed.


And should be perfectly punished.

#132 Hyatt

Hyatt
  • Member

  • 1,145 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:04

Originally posted by K-One


Ron should just stick with Finnish drivers, no problems like this whatsoever ;)


i guess he tried exactly that ...

#133 snx843

snx843
  • Member

  • 855 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:04

Originally posted by ensign14
Alonso wouldn't have had to do that if he thought he was quicker than Hamilton.


Alonso is a joke. Totally cracked.

#134 Orin

Orin
  • Member

  • 8,444 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:04

Originally posted by man from martinlaakso
I agree, that FA was really braketesting Kimi, which was unsporting. If Fernando wanted to drive a slower lap, he should have let Kimi overtake him without extra operations.


Yes, I'd quite forgotten that with what happened at the end of the session. He looked to be trying to wind Kimi up to the max. If it were Massa I could understand it, but why Kimi? Appalling behaviour in Q3 from the Spaniard.

#135 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,074 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:05

Originally posted by clampett


The more I watch those drivels from the rabid KR-fanboytrolls, the more I support Massa/Alonso/Schumacher/etc.


Take it easy mate! I'm not saying Kimi is better than any of those. I just like him more. :wave:

#136 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:05

People are rather jumping off the deep end here.

It is possible that the car was not picking up revs as it should, that there was a small clutch problem, that there was some movement at the back of the car that worried him (look at the previous pit stop with the tire warmer... how clever was it of him to take his time THEN?)

It's also possible that he sat there knowing that it would prevent LH from getting in another qualy lap...

Until I have more information though, I'll not be running around asking for Alonso to be dsq'ed or anythign so rash.

#137 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,840 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:05

What a cheat, I knew it was no longer a sport....

#138 se7en_24

se7en_24
  • Member

  • 14,283 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:06

A shame he feels his only chance of being faster than Lewis is to prevent him from being able to compete on the same level.

Remember Alonso crying when he blocked Massa last season:

"I am a sportsman. I love sport, I love the fans. I don't consider Formula One like a sport anymore,"

Yep, you really showed that today Fernando.

#139 Rubens Hakkamacher

Rubens Hakkamacher
  • Member

  • 1,567 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:06

The lollipop came up.

Alonso didn't put it into gear until well afterwards - he didn't plan on leaving when the lollipop came up!.

His pit crew were looking around like "what's the holdup???"

The guy Ron pulls off the wall had a smirk on his face.

In Alonso's first pitstop, Alonso was pointing at the pit wall, madly gesturing; Dennis turned around to look at him.

The timing was perfect to make Hamilton just miss his lap.

----------------------------------


I'd say the first stop was a bit of theatrics to make the second stop appear more plausible; whether the tire warmer incident was a cabal or not I don't know, but the pit board man smiling while obviously being redressed is indicative. Alonso didn't seem bothered by the second stop's mysterious holdup - although he did seem flushed for some reason....

/ I can't believe he did that, but I'm quite certain he did
// Lewis would have gone back out on the super softs and been that much faster; note that Alonso could see the super softs unveiled before he pulled out of the box - which makes me think did he see those tires, instantly realized "Lewis is going to beat me on those right now", and then he decided to stall?
/// but the pit wall guy seems implicated in some way....?
//// the lollipop *rules*; you go when it comes up. It was NOT a team decision, it was either Alonso on the spot, or (worse) a cabal

Advertisement

#140 oxxcar

oxxcar
  • Member

  • 257 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:06

How is possible that Alonso knew when to block Hammilton? How could he know when to get out of the pits?

Very simple. The drivers don't control that. They just follow orders of the team directors.

I'm amazed to see how people are so sure that Alonso made that on purpose. It should very easy to demonstrate if he was doing so.

#141 magicalonso

magicalonso
  • Member

  • 1,253 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:06

Originally posted by snx843


Alonso is a joke. Totally cracked.


He is such a choker that he went out on track and demolished the pole time in his very last attempt. This guy can't driver under pressure at all. :drunk:

#142 K-One

K-One
  • Member

  • 5,917 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:07

This surely has to be under investigation by stewards or is that unbiased Verdegay there again?

Since this happened at pits, is it considered "on track" like the rule says?

#143 inaki

inaki
  • Member

  • 2,421 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:07

Originally posted by Henrik Brodin


No, NOT mech difficulties, he said at the PC it was the team that held him. Do we believe him? Not entirely, because the universal sign that it's time to go is the lollipop going up.... And it did. At his first stop, when they also waited for free air, the lollipop was down until he could go.


Maybe you are right, but:

- how about the radio ??
- Does the driver have the right to decide when to leave pits even if lollilop is up ?
- Was anybody (f.ex. pit board man, who was talking with Dennis after the session) doing something like looking for space to do a clean lap.
- Was the crew to blame for the accumulated 20-30 seconds that they have also lost (by the way with Hamilton waiting behind too), because they screw it up when they forgot to take the warming blankets off the tyre in 1st pitstop with 5 minutes to go.

#144 xman

xman
  • Member

  • 780 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:08

I sure won't be surprised if Alonso will have a problem during his first stop, that his pit stop will be 5 seconds slower than Hami's one.

Very unsportsmanship thing from Alonso... all this brake-testing Kimi etc during the session, he should be penalized somehow.

#145 balaclava

balaclava
  • Member

  • 200 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:08

I love how pissed the brits and haters are about this.... WELCOME TO F1 MR HAMILTON!

You should watch golf or tennis. The WTA for example.

#146 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:08

Originally posted by Tomecek
For about 10 seconds, indeed more than Hamilton needed to catch hs flying lap.


10 seconds? The report on Autosport says "several" - which woould suggest anywhere between 2 and 4 - and that's what it looked like to me, watching it live.

McLaren is at least partly to blame for this, given that both times they held Alonso for what was a longish period of time - I know it's iomportant to get track position, but to wait so long in the current format is begging for trouble, especially at the end...

#147 K-One

K-One
  • Member

  • 5,917 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:09

Originally posted by oxxcar
How is possible that Alonso knew when to block Hammilton? How could he know when to get out of the pits?


Hamilton was behind him and time was running out, his physio was also "instructing" him. Surely you understand this?

#148 Ultra150

Ultra150
  • Member

  • 628 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:09

Originally posted by DCult
This will piss off Bernie for sure ... :lol:


:up:

#149 kyriakos75

kyriakos75
  • Member

  • 437 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:09

Originally posted by WDC1992
Its fantastic the way that as soon as anything about cheating is brought up Schumacher's name automatically comes into play. No one was a more filthy cheat than him and by tomorrow this whole Alonso thing will be forgotten........... roll on wdc number 3 for Alonso!!!


Troll.

#150 Scudetto

Scudetto
  • Member

  • 8,053 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:09

Originally posted by Bruce
Until I have more information though, I'll not be running around asking for Alonso to be dsq'ed or anythign so rash.


I think that in the time between Alonso's stunt in the pits and the conclusion of Q3, Ron would have been able to develop some sense of what had occurred. So his body language at the end of qualifying speaks volumes as to whether this was a technical issue or a petulance issue.