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Nurburgring Nostalgia 2007


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#1 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 21:04

Last weekend saw the latest Oldtimer GP. Here some shots for those of you not attending:

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#2 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 21:21

Some more.

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#3 simon drabble

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 06:53

excellant - thanks for making me feel even worse about not going! I gather that the Nordschliefe race was cancelled

#4 Pedro 917

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:53

No car went out on Friday, not even on the new track. With a visibility of maximum 100m, a wise decision....
But Saturday and Sunday were magnificent, I got sunburned like I've never been before, this is how I look now: :o

#5 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:16

100 metres? Try 20!

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Copyright: heppypress

Needless to say, everything was cancelled on Friday on both GP circuit and Nordschleife. That is why some races on Saturday had to start without any practice or qualifying! The organizers therefore decided to do three warm-up laps behind the pace car so the drivers could at least familiarize themselves with the circuit a little.

Saturday morning was also foggy, but when the sun came through it was hot indeed!

#6 john ruston

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:58

It's one of the best Historic race weekends and a calender with Silverstone and Dijon would make a good basis for a season with Pau and Le Mans Classic as an add on.Goodwood 's a seperate thing.The pre war grid has got very thin with GP cars mixed with Sports Cars.At a cost of 25% less than other pre war sports car races for more racing and very good hospitality for three days I wonder why.You also get the chance to visit that track next door as part of the package.To many races for these cars.

#7 Alan Cox

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 16:37

A nicely "arty" selection of photos, Arjan. Thank you for those.

#8 Stirling

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 17:17

Terrific photos, Arjan! If I may digress briefly from the classics on show, I understand that the new Jaguar XF was also on display, and was wondering if you saw it? If so, I wonder what you made of it? In particular, if it had been debadged would you have immediately identified it as a Jaguar upon first sight in the metal?

ciao,
Stirling

#9 r.atlos

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 17:21

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
100 metres? Try 20!


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Copyright: heppypress

Reminds me of a race back in 1996 or 1997: Impossible to complete a timed lap during practice due to electrical problems, talked organisers into letting me start from the back of the grid - and on Sunday morning things looked like on Rob's picture. By 10am it was anounced races would be shortened and by 1pm or so prices were finally awarded based on practice times and they wished us a safe trip back ...

Except that that happened late in October - not early August !

#10 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 19:35

Originally posted by Stirling
I understand that the new Jaguar XF was also on display, and was wondering if you saw it? If so, I wonder what you made of it? In particular, if it had been debadged would you have immediately identified it as a Jaguar upon first sight in the metal?

ciao,
Stirling


No sorry, I was 'only' four hours at the Ring and took pics in the pits. The Paddock was quite crowded at 11:00. I did see Pedro917 (catching his sunburn) whizz by when I was under a F1. But I couldnt trace him back again (sorry Pedro!).

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#11 Pedro 917

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:50

I had a great time at the Ring, truly a wonderful event with beautiful cars and animated races. I'm filing my pictures (some 3.000) and will ask Dennis to put them on his site.
There was a Fangio tribute (it was 50 years ago that he won in the Maserati 250F) and I believe there were 8 Maserati 250 entries in the GP cars till 1960 race. One Maserati 250F did a demo run with Peter Heuberger at the wheel. He told me it was the Maserati that Fangio drove to victory in 1957 and that he didn't race it. That would be chassis 2529 then. Can someone confirm this?
Here are pictures of the demo run :

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Shot with Canon EOS 10D

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#12 willy.henderickx

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 19:33

ADAC indicated that the winner of the 1957 GR (2529) would be presented ans dubsequently shown at the nest motor show (Frankfurt, if I remember)

Peter Heuberger ran his own 2526 (Monaco winner with Stirling Moss)

PS.; If I had ample opportunity to verify the identity of 2526, I had no opportunity to check if car #1 was indeed 2529 belonging to Hartmut Ibing.

Regards.

Willy

#13 Barrie Hobkirk

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 19:57

Hi Pedro 917,

I made the very long trip from Vancouver to the Oldtimer GP. Just back Monday evening.

I can confirm that the above three pictures posted by Pedro 917 are in fact of chassis 2529 and it is the same car that Fangio won the German GP with in 1957 - 50 years ago. The car was recently sold to a yet unidentified owner and has recently undergone a restoration to replicate its 1957 German GP appearance.

The driver here is Lukas Huni who ran demo laps on the new GP circuit both Saturady and Sunday. Lukas Huni, Peter Heuberger and a few others in 250F's did a parade of the Nordschleife Sunday morning before most people were awake.

All told there were 11 250F's present, of which three were Cameron Millar Replicas.
2507, 2508, 2521, 2522/23/26, 2525, 2529, 2531 V-12, 2534, CM-5, CM-7, & CM-8.

Cheers,
Barrie

#14 Pedro 917

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 20:13

Thanks Barrie, I'll post some more pictures later. Were you a competitor or did you spectate?

#15 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 00:14

Here are some more pictures of "2529" :

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#16 Barrie Hobkirk

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 00:32

Hi Pedro 917,
Very nice pictures. Nice looking car isn't it?
No, not a competitor. I just went to see all my 250F's.
Thanks for asking.
Cheers,
Barrie

#17 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 00:59

Barrie:

Would you identify soon the new owner of the 2529?

Could you tell us then?

I am very interested

By the way, CM-9 replica is the one the Juan Manuel Fangio Museum has.

#18 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 01:02

Grand Prix Masters :

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Entries & Results can be found here

#19 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 01:05

Barrie, I'll post some Maserati 250 pictures tomorrow. :up:

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#20 David McKinney

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 05:31

Originally posted by Pablo Vignone
By the way, CM-9 replica is the one the Juan Manuel Fangio Museum has.

Really?
In addition to CM3, which they have had for some years?

#21 willy.henderickx

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:59

I took a photograph of an all white rear engined formula car with GTX on the cold air box. Unfortunately, taken from 3/4 rear, I cannot see the race number.

Only trhing readable is GTX on the cold air box.

This car is nor represented on the thumbnails.

I hope that someone can identify this car.

Thks in advance.

Willy

#22 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 08:30

Willy, that must be the Trojan 103. Check the 5th from last picture.

#23 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 08:38

and this one :

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#24 willy.henderickx

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 08:44

Pedro, first thanks for the early reply. Upon checking my picture, I hardly can see the red pontoons behind the left rear wheel.

Funny, the driver is my neighbour Paul Grant who raced and unfortunately crashed his usual mount, the Cooper Bristol.

#25 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:04

This one?

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#26 willy.henderickx

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:11

Ye sir

#27 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:29

All Maserati 250F's :

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# 2534 - Jos Koster

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# 2526 - Peter Heuberger

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# 2531 - Werner Max

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# 2507 - Klaus Edel

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# 2521 - Frank Stippler

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# 2508 - Josef Otto Rettenmaier

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# 2525 - Tom Price

#28 Adam F

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 10:29

Barrie,

Glad to hear you've returned safely from your transatlantic trip.

One question - Isn't David Wenman's CM replica "CM-6", rather than "CM-5"?

Adam

#29 David McKinney

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 11:30

Great shots as always Pedro
But you shouldn't believe all you read in the programme :lol:
2534 was driven by Max Werner, and 2531 by his brother Moritz

#30 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:02

Re the Trojan, the car at the Nurburgring is a modified 5000 tub built up as a Formula One car by Charlie Agg in the 90ties, the real car is in pieces in Chesterfield.

#31 Barrie Hobkirk

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:09

Pedro 917 and Adam,

Great photos Pedro. David is correct with the names. It wasn't known publically until late Friday that Jos Koster was not feeling well so stayed home. Max Werner was asked to drive his car (2534). Max's younger brother Moritz stepped in to drive the V-12 2531. Burkhard von Schenk could not make the event so professional driver Frank Stippler was 'hired' to drive Schenk's 2521.

Adam. Cameron Millar replicas CM-5 & CM-6 were sold as 'kit' cars to new owners over 25 years ago. Neither were completed until the early to mid 1990's. Cameron intended that the T-1 in Scotland be CM-5 and the English T-3 car be CM-6 although neither were tagged. CM-6 was completed first and was then sold in a 1993 Brooks auction as CM-6. Shortly after a tag welded on the car proclamed it as CM-5. Cameron intended to straighten this out but newer got around to it. Nothing much has happened in recent years but under David Wenman's ownership their has been much publicity for the car as CM-5. I was trying to get together with David Wenman at the OGP to discuss the issue and see if anything had been arranged with the Scotish car.
By strick chronology the manufacture of the T-1 frame preceeded the T-3 frame by a year or two.
I don't think anyone is too concerned as long as they both don't try and be CM-5. The only fly in the ointment historically is the fact that the Wenman car was sold in 1993 as CM-6.
I hope that explains it, be it somewhat brief.

Cheers,
Barrie

#32 Keir

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 13:16

Great stuff everybody !!

I hope to see some interesting cars at Lime Rock in a few weeks !!

#33 paulhooft

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 14:08

Did you make pictures of the # 11 Indy roadster that is in the background of the first Picture?
Paul

#34 Alan Cox

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 16:31

Im pleased to see that 2529 now has its yellow noseband finished as it was in '57, i.e with the curved end to its right-hand side, and not with a straight edge, as it had until recently.

Am I right, Barrie, in thinking that it was daubed on after practice by a mechanic using a pot of yellow whitewash (if you can have such a thing) as an aid to identification, and wasn't the fine quality gloss paint finish that we see today?

#35 Barrie Hobkirk

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 19:38

Hi Alan,

For the 1957 race, yes, the yellow nose band was added after the first practice. That is why you will often see pictures of the car without the yellow. I'm not sure how it was applied back then but it appeared to be 'better' that simply whitewash. The other team cars also had their noses painted by raceday. Behra had a blue nose and Schell had white while Scarlatti's was left alone. There may or may not be any connection with some tracks requirements for national identification. Hence yellow for Argentina, blue for France, white for America and red for Italy. On the otherhand it may purely have been to help the team identify the cars at a distance. This identification was done at a few venues in 1957.

As for the car we see today, Capricorn Engineering prepared the car with a somewhat flat finish. A mixture of talcum powder in the paint. For althought the surface of 2529 is now flawless, it did have a more period look of a "new" 50's paint job. The numbers on the car were painted using an off white colour to go along with the overall period look. The instrument panel was rebuilt to look as it did in 1957 and was also roughed up to give a period finish rather than the mirror finish we see in some cars.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Barrie

#36 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 21:43

Originally posted by paulhooft :
Did you make pictures of the # 11 Indy roadster that is in the background of the first Picture?

I took these :

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#37 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 22:18

The other Maserati's 250F :

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CM5 - David Wenman entry - not seen on track

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CM7 - Allan Miles entry

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CM8 - Georg Kaufmann entry

#38 Wolfgang Mathai

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:20

One images more from OGP 2007:

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#39 paulhooft

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:26

Great roadster pictures, Pedro917!!
THANK YOU!! :wave: :up:

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#40 willy.henderickx

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:32

c/n of the Porsche would be appreciated.

Thks in advance.

Willy

#41 Wolfgang Mathai

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:36

more pictures see at http://www.racecar-collection.com/

Wolfgang

#42 Pedro 917

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:51

Hello Wolfgang! Here are some action pictures :

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#43 Wolfgang Mathai

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 12:44

Hella Pedro! Well done!! May I use your pitures at Racecar-Collection ?

Wolfgang

#44 Pedro 917

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 13:45

Sure, just give me credit (Luc Ghys). You can use these too :

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Elva MkIII

#45 Wolfgang Mathai

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 17:30

Hello Pedro!

Thank you for your permission to use your lovely pictures at the Internetsite Racecar Collection. Ich have build them into the slideshow AVD Oldtimer Grand Prix 2007 .......

Wolfgang

#46 Pedro 917

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 18:32

Also found these, I guess Oliver is your brother :wave:

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Shelby Cobra MkI

#47 NPP

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 14:02

I am digging out this old thread to enquire whether any TNFers will be at the Ring for this year's Oldtimer GP next week.

Also, I'll be there for my first ever visit, so I'd be grateful for any tips on where to be, what not to miss and what to avoid that those who have visited in previous years might care to share.

Thanks in advance!

NPP

#48 René de Boer

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 15:09

I will be there, unfortunately only on Friday due to clashing commitments (Formula 3 Masters at Zolder). Should more TNF'ers be there on Friday already, maybe we can work out a brief meeting.

#49 aldo

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 17:28

I'll be there from Friday until Sunday covering the event for Italian magazines.
I'd rather suggest to arrange a meeting at the paddock door to enter the press room, i.e. at the beginning of the building (coming out of the Coca Cola Kurve), about 45 minutes after the end of the races on the Nordschleife, if the weather will grace us.

#50 fines

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 18:02

Still trying to make up my mind if I will go at all, but Friday appears to be the most likely day. Am still a bit miffed about last year, I think the event is heading in the wrong direction (for me, anyway!).