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Richie Ginther: what happened?


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#51 dretceterini

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Posted 25 June 2002 - 18:54

Mr.Nye:


BRAVO!!

:clap: :clap: :clap:


Stu

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#52 ensign14

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Posted 25 June 2002 - 20:21

Originally posted by Vitesse2


In his June 1972 Letter from Europe, DSJ reports a chance meeting with Richie at an unnamed European circuit, where he was shepherding an American FSV driver (EFR presumably) in a Europe-USA match race. Very little detail, but the race was apparently won by a Liechtensteiner, so that should narrow it down a bit.


Must be Rikki von Opel.

#53 sat

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Posted 25 June 2002 - 21:58

Manfred Schurti win 3 races in 1972 Castrol Goldpokal, but i have no evidence about american competitors in this races.

#54 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 June 2002 - 22:24

Originally posted by David M. Kane
DCN that was absolutely brillant. Thank you for a very human overview of this complex talent. I feel much, much better now and in a way at peace.


Yes, indeed... and sad to learn he found driving the BRM such a problem.

And I'll express my sincere apologies for having introduced Frank Gardner's statement to this discussion.

Lyn... those times with Honda must have been great for him too, leading the team, developing the car, heavily involved with the tyre development too. The highlight of his career, surely? The days ye rode the most highly-strung horse in the race...

#55 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 21:04

I believe I've posted elsewhere that a proper Ginther biography is long overdue. Perhaps our own DCN would be the best hope for this to happen. Ginther was certainly a complex man and an underappreciated driver whose story deserves telling.

Jack

#56 David M. Kane

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 21:40

He did match Moss's lap time in Monaco that's been pointed out in another post...

#57 FerrariV12

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 21:42

I have a video box set, "The BRM Story", in which Ginther is interviewed, and he doesn't look too clever :( was this the 1989 commemorative film mentioned earlier in this thread?

#58 David M. Kane

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 22:08

I once had a one hour sitdown conversation with John Surtees and I didn't find him too clever. Maybe I didn't ask questions that stirred his interest? Please this was in the day's before these guys had coaches on speaking and what all? Since I haven't seen the footage you are describing, I can't comment. Besides you don't have to have a good personality and be a good dancer to drive a race car. After you've heard the same question for the 50th time, it looses it's spark.

Do you consider Kimi to be a good interview? He gives me the feeling he's in total agony! Ronnie Peterson didn't make the transistion from working on elevators to public speaking too smoothly either.

Sorry to so sensitive, but I too am not too clever either. A fairer statement would be, what were you expecting and why?

Thank you.

#59 T54

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 22:14

Doug,
The lovely Jackie Ginther, who unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago and who was married for a long time to Richie, told me a few years back that Richie had a rare heart condition called "hypertrophic cardiomyopathy". Jackie was a member of our group called "The Fabulous Fifties" of which I am the unofficial historian.
I did not register the name at the time because it was too complex to remember from a simple conversation, but I know a bit more now because I was found recently to have the same ailment, luckily in a much milder form presenting no danger to me. So I have learned how to spell it really quick, as it gives freaky EKG readings and could cause someone to open one's chest when there is no real need!
It is a genetic degeneretive hardening and thickening of the heart muscle causing high blood pressure and irregular heartbeat. This is apparently what got Ritchie as sometimes, the heart just stops beating, and that's it. In fact alcoholism is a help and not an hinderance, as long as one uses the red stuff. Beer is not so good. Obviously Ritchie had other problems that did not help. I just remember him in the 1960's and early 1970's as the most charming person with a great sense of humour.
Poor Robs Lamplough's son who passed away in 2002 may have been victim of the same ailment, as very few doctors even know what it is as this ailment was only identified by scientists in the past 30 years or so.
For the ones who think that Ginther was "second fiddle", you have never seen the man race. He was as good as anyone of his generation, and a smart one at that. He might not have APPEARED clever on TV or film, but it was possibly shyness or stage fright.
Regards,

T54

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#60 kayemod

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 22:18

Originally posted by FerrariV12
I have a video box set, "The BRM Story", in which Ginther is interviewed, and he doesn't look too clever :( was this the 1989 commemorative film mentioned earlier in this thread?


A slight misunderstanding here I think. In common UK English parlance, to say that someone 'doesn't look too clever' means that they don't look in good health, it has nothing to do with intelligence. If it did, the phrase could be applied to quite a few F1 drivers of recent times. On the main topic, I've always rated Ritchie Ginther highly, and think he's been somewhat underappreciated by many historians.

#61 T54

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 22:50

In common UK English parlance, to say that someone 'doesn't look too clever' means that they don't look in good health, it has nothing to do with intelligence.


I got to get to Goodwood more often... :)
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

#62 Jerry Entin

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 00:11

Richie also managed the effort by Jo Siffert in the 1971 CanAm. They finished 5th at Monterey under Richie's guidance. In a Porsche which had I believe STP sponsorship. Sadly Jo Siffert was killed between the race in Monterey and the last race of the 1971 CanAm season at Riverside. Richie also spent a lot of time in Palm Springs. Before he moved to Mexico. He was friends with John Von Neumann and I believe he lived with him during his stay in Palm Springs. This would have been during the early 70's. Richie sadly passed away on Sept 20, 1989 at the age of 59.

#63 Jerry Entin

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 01:28

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Here is the Porsche Richie Ginther ran for Jo Siffert in the 1971 CanAm Series on the westcoast. Photo courtesy of Rob Neuzel. copyright Rob Neuzel 2006

#64 Jerry Entin

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 11:23

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Here is a picture of Richie Ginther in 1982 with his good friend Doreen Green and Kerry Green this was at Monterey where Richie had gone to drive a Porsche for Vasek Polack. Richie sadly passed away in 1989 in France. Photo by Green Family

#65 Jerry Entin

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 11:26

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Here is Richie in one of Vasek Polack's Porsche's at Monterey in 1982. Photo from Green Family

#66 flat-16

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 23:33

A rather moving thread… Thanks to all contributors.

Considering Honda recently saw the value in utilising their pedigree in past motor sport for advertising purposes, the Ginther name has now been exposed to a whole new generation; it’s a shame the man wasn’t alive to witness the advert – it showed him in the light that I will always remember him in.

One can only imagine the current climate to be perfect for a Ginther biography.

Justin

#67 Jerry Entin

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 16:25

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Richie Ginther and his lovely wife Jackie recieving an award from Phil Hill in 1959. Photo from Dave Friedman collection.


#68 macoran

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 18:03

posting for ry6

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Syd van der Vyver (Lotus 24 Climax v8) waving Ritchie Ginther's BRM through during the 1962 Rand Grand Prix at Clubhouse Corner.

Syd was to retire soon afyter with a clutch malady and Ritchie fell by the wayside with reported gearbox trouble.

I also saw Ginther perform at Westmead and East London in the 1962 season.

He was a fine driver and at Westmead particularly certainly took the BRM by the tail and gave us some exciting spectating.

#69 Jerry Entin

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 10:29

Very nice picture Marc. As T54 has said earlier. I remember Richie as being full of life in the early 70's. A friend of mine owned the Yamaha dealership in Palm Springs. And Richie would come into the shop to visit. In 1971 Sid Taylor and I ran the BRM CanAm car for Brian Redman at Monterey. And Richie was running the Porsche effort for Jo Siffert. Jo finished right behind Brian in the race. I thought that was a very good result at that time the Porsche was non turbo charged. Richie told me they were testing a Turbo motor and the car was going to be sorted out by Mark Donohue for Roger Penske the coming year and it was going to give the McLaren's fits. When he told me this I thought he was nuts. Ha, He was 100% right.
Mark Donohue was hurt in a testing accident with the car, at I believe Road Atlanta. Roger Penske than got George Follmer to drive the car. They had a slogan. "Let George do it." They were sponsored by L&M and they won the CanAm in 1972 with the turbo Porsche 917/10K. I had never heard of a Turbo motor and thought the 650 hp the Aluminum big block 494 Chevy's had was something no one could match. They then brought out a better car in 1973 it was called a 917/30K. People in the series were calling it the Turbo Panzer. And this time Mark Donohue won the CanAm series with it. Richie saw all this coming. No one else imagined McLaren could ever get beat. But Porsche figured out how to get 1100 horsepower out of that flat 12 engine. With only 5.4 Liter's

#70 macoran

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 17:40

Thanks Jerry but I am only posting the pic for ry6

#71 Oversteer1

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 19:18

Maybe Mr. Nye would consider writing a book about Ritchie Ginther in the future. After reading
his book concerning the "Cooper Racing Team", I'm sure it would be a great read. Thanks!

Mark

#72 FerrariV12

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 01:35

Originally posted by kayemod


A slight misunderstanding here I think. In common UK English parlance, to say that someone 'doesn't look too clever' means that they don't look in good health, it has nothing to do with intelligence. If it did, the phrase could be applied to quite a few F1 drivers of recent times. On the main topic, I've always rated Ritchie Ginther highly, and think he's been somewhat underappreciated by many historians.


Sorry my bad! Yeah that's what I meant, he didnt look in good health (I'm English lol) Maybe should have phrased it differently.

#73 Jerry Entin

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 18:13

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This is at Torrey Pines in 1952. Dave Sykes is signaling Phil Hill and a young Richie Ginther is on the side watching the watches. This great photo was lent to the site By Ron Kellogg. Phil Hill was in a C type Jag. Copyright 2006 Ron Kellogg-photo by Ralph Poole

#74 GT Reproductions

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 11:34

Here's some shots of Ritchie's Porsche 914 involvment. http://www.pbase.com...ritchie_ginther
I worked with Allan Johnson, Ritchies team mate on the 924 program. At the time I had no idea of Ritchies acomplishments. I just love piecing the puzzle of motor racing history together. What a fasinating sport we have. I'm thrilled to be a part of this forum.
Here's another shot of Allan and Ritchie hanging it out at the SCCA Runoffs
http://www.pca.org/p...gal_200412.html

#75 Danny Skehan

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 14:19

Some shots of Richie taken in 1961 at Monza and Monaco and with Wolfgang Von Trips from Peter Miller’s book “Men at the Wheel” photographers – Bernard Cahier and Geoffrey Goddard in the book he makes mention of Richie’s father dying of a heart condition and of Richie’s fondness of cigarettes, fine wine and spirits and that also he was an expert on the history of the native American Indian.


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:up:

#76 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 03:54

Very nice B&W photos. I have been in touch with Dr Bret Ginther, Richie's son who told me that when he died suddenly whilst on holiday in France, he was cremated there and his ashes were brought back to Mexico where they were scattered in the Pacific Ocean by his home in Rosarito Beach.

http://www.findagrav...&GRid=15362917

#77 David M. Kane

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 21:13

As they say, it's your health and your friends that matter. Given his family DNA I think he did remarkedly well for himself in a demanding sport.

#78 kzimmerm

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 17:55

As a young man I worked for Richie Ginther in his Culver City Porsche Racing shop for two years. Richie was "larger-than-life", even to a beginner like me. He did some extreemely innovative and cool things with racing cars during his life. Over the last 24 years, since leaving his shop, I've dedicated a race car build to Richie, as a Tribute to the man. A thread on another site (below) has more pictures and stories about Richie. Thanks to all who remembered him here!!

The part of the thread that talks most about Richie Ginther begins here http://www.early911s...p?t=6828&page=5

#79 Jerry Entin

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 18:55

A slight correction Stu. Ed Niles no longer has the scrapbook of Jackie Ginther's. It is now owned by Ron Kellogg and he kindly loaned the site the picture of Richie timming Phil Hill in 1952 that is posted above. Myself and Joe Playan also attend the breakfast meetings of Bubbas group at the Corral Cafe the first saturday of the month in Burbank. When I am in California and they are a great group of guys. Davey Jordan is usually there and the host is Dave Scully a great guy. Tam McPartland is usually there also. And Bob Falcone and Bob Schillings amongst others.

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#80 Jerry Entin

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 21:03

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Here is a Great picture of Richie and Jackie Ginther with car owner John Edgar holding winning flag. A car very similar to this one recently sold at auction for a mere 5.61 Million dollars.


#81 Jerry Entin

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 21:06

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Another great photo courtesy of Chuck Miller. Monza 1962- Schlegelmilch/Lehbrink photo

#82 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 01:54

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Here is Richie in Sacramento in 1956 the Porsche driver Sam Weiss is right next to him. That's Bill Murphy shaking hands. photo Don Meacham

#83 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 03:44

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Pretty impressive Drivers meeting. Photo from Kurt Zimmerman collection

#84 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 03:48

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Mexico City 1965

#85 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 03:51

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Mexican Road Races with Phil Hill November 1954 Carrera Panamerica

#86 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 04:12

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Richie with John Von Neumann - photo Kurt Zimmerman collection

#87 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 04:24

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Richie with Bret

#88 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 04:26

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Honda power RA 272 F1-V12 Transverse mounted-240 hp at 11,000 rpm's. Alois Rottensteiner photo

#89 David McKinney

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 04:57

Some wonderful images there, Jerry
Thanks to you (and your supply chain) :up:

#90 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 05:03

Glad you like them David. If things go right you have seen nothing yet. Hang on. I am waiting for Cathy Ginther to come through with the Family ones.

#91 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:31

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Richie and Phil Hill - Bobcat down for the count. Car is 1953 Ferrari 250MM Vignale. While traveling in a caravan with Bill Devin one of the vehicles hit the Bobcat this was near Lone Pine in Califonia on Highway 395.

#92 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:35

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Nice Ferrari one this is John Edgar's 857S. It is Monterey in 1957. photo Don Meacham

#93 David M. Kane

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 02:43

Mega Jerry!

#94 Barry Boor

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 07:36

I think that may be Mexico City 1965, not '62.

#95 Jerry Entin

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 13:06

Barry you are right. I have corrected it. Typo as they say. I want to thank Zawed for starting this post. And I am sure pictures are coming that will really do justice to the memory of Richie. I didn't know him very well but he was a bright and cheery guy was my impression of him. He drove some great cars and did a very good job of it. And Jack the Lad is right about someone doing a very nice book on Richie. Long overdue. Also thanks to our new member Kurt Zimmerman for his great pictures and sharing them with the site.

#96 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 13:06

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad
I believe I've posted elsewhere that a proper Ginther biography is long overdue. Perhaps our own DCN would be the best hope for this to happen. Ginther was certainly a complex man and an underappreciated driver whose story deserves telling.

Jack


The wonderful photos posted above have inspired me to repeat my previous message....

Jack

#97 Jerry Entin

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 19:27

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Here is a very nice picture lent to the site by Hal Thoms. Richie in 1963 at Riverside Raceway in a Porsche RS61. Hal Thoms has a great book on Porsche Racing cars called Porsche Racing Milestones. He is currently working on a book dealing with the 4 cam Porsches which should be coming out soon. Hal is also the director/editor of the Porsche 356 Club Magazine. A must read for Porsche 356 fans. It can be seen at www.porsche356club.org

#98 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 22:50

Jerry:

Thanks for posting that image of Richie in the RS61.

Not in the least with the intention of short-circuiting this great thread, I must mention my love affair with the RS60 and RS61 models. The very first motor race I ever attended was the inaugural Player's 200 at Mosport in 1961 as a 12-year old. A number of these models competed with such luminaries as Bonnier and Gendebien plus a few NA drivers of note, too. Local hotshot, Ludwig Heimrath, piloted a version throughout 1961-63. At every meeting for the 200, the Canadian GP plus Canadian National championship races, these cars thrilled me not only with their excellent performance but by their sound. I didn't just hear it...I felt it! A buzzing resonance was set up in my chest each time the cars accelerated away up the back straight coming out of Moss'. The frequency, volume, amplitude and heaven only knows what else combined with my body size, chest cavity, lung capacity, etc. Everything fell right into place. Positively exhilarating in the extreme!

I haven't seen one in action since maybe 1964 or 1965. Pity.

#99 David M. Kane

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 23:44

Manfred:

Go to Monterey to the Historics they run there every year.

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#100 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 03:55

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Richie in RA272 Honda Formula One in Mexico City 1965. Photo lent to site by Kurt Zimmerman. Glad you enjoyed the photo Manfred. I also remember Rudi Bartling. My good friend Joe Playan also ran an earlier version. Called a Porsche 550 RS. Joe bought his car after Richie Ginther past his MG Special in a race like he was tied down.