97 replies to this topic

[Bob Riebe]

Did anyone in Australia or New Zealand ever run a Holden vee-eight in a sprint car?

Bob

[Peter Leversedge]

Bob - I can't speak for Australia but as far as NZ goes I have never seen a Holden V8 in a sprint car here and I was involved for over 25 years so if there was one being used it is likely I would have known about it. There is a 6cyl Class at Ellesemere Raceway and they mainly run 6 cyl Holdens.A few cars have run Ford & Chrysler V8 engines. There is more equipment here for Chev and it costs less. Some early Holdens sold here had Chev engines before Holden had there own and some cars where even badged as Chev. Current Holden V8 cars have a engine based on the Chev.I myself prefered the Chev engine and look at it as being one of the best engines ever built.In my early racing day I did run Ford Flathead V8s but Chev engines where very hard to get here before the early 70's [Govt Regs]

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Peter Leversedge
Bob - I can't speak for Australia but as far as NZ goes I have never seen a Holden V8 in a sprint car here and I was involved for over 25 years so if there was one being used it is likely I would have known about it. There is a 6cyl Class at Ellesemere Raceway and they mainly run 6 cyl Holdens.A few cars have run Ford & Chrysler V8 engines. There is more equipment here for Chev and it costs less. Some early Holdens sold here had Chev engines before Holden had there own and some cars where even badged as Chev. Current Holden V8 cars have a engine based on the Chev.I myself prefered the Chev engine and look at it as being one of the best engines ever built.In my early racing day I did run Ford Flathead V8s but Chev engines where very hard to get here before the early 70's [Govt Regs]

To paraphrase, as I do not remember exactly the wording, what Richard Petty said in a book I have-" If you want horse power, run a Ford, Dodge or AMC, but If you also want parts, run Chevy.

Bob

[Peter Leversedge]

Richard Petty is most likely correct when talking about running NASCAR but when it comes to a sprint car on a 1/2 mile or 1/4 mile dirt bull ring the Chev engine seems to make enough power to get the job done. There just seems to be some thing about the Chev that really suits the conditions. I am not suggesting that they may be the best engine for NASCAR where you run wide open throttle for 500 miles

[wrighty]

ok big catch-up time ;)

Firstly, re: Harry van der Spuij (i know thats the spelling now, you'll see why in a second lol)......... some of the dates are a little sketchy but it would appear that Harry raced in the UK in 1971, '76, '79, '81 and 1984. He was accompanied in at least one of these visits by Dick Zimmerman (racing as USA1 in 1979) and Dick's reputation preceded him as current/recent CRA champion (rated as one of the most competitive Sprint Car series in the USA at the time). As it was, the World Final that year was held at the White City stadium in Manchester....a great venue for racing, a tight oval, almost certainly less than 1/4 mile round (the tarmac track was within the existing greyhound oval at the stadium). The White City World Final was wet......very wet in fact (I was there lol, I was 12 at the time and that's about all I can remember of the meeting, just how wet it was) but the night is remembered by Brisca fans 'of a certain age' as being the only World Final win for Frankie 'Smiler' Wainman #212, a legend of the sport (his testimonial meeting is in Manchester next month - if anyone's interested i'll post the relevant information, there's lots of 'history' promised )

Harry's cars; Pics are below of the cars Harry used in the various visits here, with special thanks and credits to 'spannerman' and Paul Williams;

http://forum.stoxnet...e=post&id=11871

This was Harry's 1971 ride (the Harringey final winner) - loaned by Stuart Smith (another Legend of the sport), this car was a Buick-powered 'lightweight' (this is a relative term, Stock cars at that time were barely regulated, so a lightweight car could still weigh well in excess of 2000kgs )

http://forum.stoxnet...e=post&id=11872

This was the 1976 car, as loaned by 'Smiler' Wainman......very much 'de rigeur' for the time (and a long period of time since, almost up to present in some ways), this car featured a big block Chevy (probably 454 c.i) and Bedford LD (Light Delivery van) running gear in a custom-built frame.....tyres at the time were usually Dunlop RS5's unless it was wet or boggy (shale), in which case the 'town & country' tyre was used for extra grip (as can be seen on the rear of the car in this pic).

http://forum.stoxnet...e=post&id=11879

This was the 1984 car, again loaned by Frankie Wainman.....according to Stoxnet poster Higgi29 (ex-F1s racer Ian Higgins) this car was one of Frankie's famous early 'offset' cars....Higgi knew this because when he had the car it was nigh-on impossible to get the sparkplugs out due to the proximity of the left-hand chassis rail to the cylinder head (and as you'll see from the pic, this is where i got the confirmation on the spelling of Harry's surname haha).
Signs of newer developments on this pic include the use of double dampers on the outside front corner and the almost complete removal of the 'stock body' concept that had been the basis of the 'stock cars' principle.....by now (early '80s) the cars were specifically built for the intended job, racing around ovals in an anti-clockwise direction, hence the use of offset engine for weight distribution, and the 'stock car' ideal was by now restricted only (as you can see) to the use of certain 'trademark' parts, which in Wainman's case was an MG grille. The picture also shows an '80s interpretation of the Sprint car style wing, again based on the theory of the wings used in the US, although without the high offset side panels, which were reckoned at that time not to be needed by F1s, due to the smaller tracks and lower cornering speed (as an aside, the sport has now gone completely the other way with almost universal use of a specific shale wing, designed solely for drifting, with no straight-line aero effectiveness......imho the ugliest development in motorsport, I can't think of anything more hideous off the top of my head). Wainman was one of the innovators of the sport, hence the very high esteem in which he's held today, and the cars that he loaned to Harry allow us a unique 'running pictorial' into a period of constant development for the sport over a period spanning almost 20 years.

In other news ;) I've received 2 pictures from Peter (Leversedge....aka OP of this thread) and you've just got to see them, these are both wonderfully evocative cars.......I'll let Peter fill in the finer details of how he came to be the owner of the two cars but for the moment i'll share with you the e-mail that Peter sent with the pictures;

I am sending a shot of my "K8" taken at the Nelson Beach races sometime in the late 60's. The second is my ex Jeff Gordon [ of NASCAR fame ] Ozcar sprint car taken in the late 80's. I still have the "K8" car and the chassis and parts of the Ozcar.

So as you can see we need Peter's input to tell a: The history and current state of "K8" and b: whatever happened to that Jeff Gordon guy





The bit I like the best in Peter's e-mail was his closing line......'It would be great if you have time to post what ever you think would be of interest to the members. Regards Pete' ....... whatever I think might be of interest? The guy has K8 still in his garage alongside an ex-Jeff Gordon Sprint car? I'm not worthy

[/ramble]

cheers all, thanks as always for TNF .......... Wrighty

oh and ps..........

Originally posted by Peter Leversedge
Champ Dirt Cars?

yes, those are fabulous pictures aren't they......they weren't champ dirt cars specifically, they were either champ cars or dirt cars, depending on what surface was under the tyres at the time....aside of that, I stand to be corrected but I believe they were one and the same. Nigel Roebuck talked to Mario Andretti on several occasions that I was lucky enough to read in the magazine (the last one was when Mario was over here for the Autosport awards iirc) and he mentioned there the kind of schedule that they rang, from track to track, from tarmac (asphalt sorry) to shale....it reminded me of stock cars earlier days, before 'shale cars' and 'tarmac engines' and 'setups' took over

[Peter Leversedge]

Thanks for posting the photos of my car "Wrighty"
Brief Details of the Cars
"K8" Car - Built in NZ in 1949 By John Jacobson & Neil Stuart usig the plans from th book "Hown To Build A Racing Car" as a guide. It has a modified 26' Essex frame, 39' Ford V8 front & rear end, Chrysler 70 steering box and 39' Mercury based engine of 286 CI. It was raced by both John & Neil then pased to Bill Harris jnr in the late 50's who in turn sold it about 1960 to the Rattray Bros Peter & Alec. I acuired it in 1965. It won the NZ Beach Racing Championship 3 times with Bill Harris and myself.
Ozcar - Built in the US by Lee Ozborne of Jamestown Ind.in 1985 but is a "1986" model. the first owner was John Bickford [ Geff Gordons stepfather ] . I understand it ran the Cal. swing of the 85' World of Outlaws with Indiana Andy Hillenburg driving and later was driven by Geff Gordon in the midwest. then next season it went to Carl Shields of NARC [ Northen Auto Racing Club ] in Nth Cal. I aquired it ih about 1988 and raced it untill 2000 when I gave up racing. I sold it about 2003 to Royce & Kevin Clive. Kevin raced it for a season a then got the chasiss back, They kept the engine which was a 406 Gaerte Chev

[JACQUESVDS]

Fabulous link, thank you (for those of you who haven't tried it yet, there's some big 2007 clips there too, full race highlights at 70-100mb, but well worth the download)......Interesting to watch the non-winged racing, i'm so used to watching Outlaws (on tv/pc unfortunately , they don't do UK lol) which are much more nervous, I hadn't realised the wing had that much effect but there you go, a picture paints a thousand words

oh, @ barrykm, I need to have a look about but u may have better access to Harry van der Spuy's history, did he race a couple of times in the UK in the 70s at Brisca stock cars? The name rang a bell as soon as I saw it, i'm sure he's in 'our' history books somewhere....if I can find a pic i'll post it up.

Finally @ Peter Leversedge, do you cross paths and share meetings with the stock car boys? I'm just watching the results for the build-up night in the Brisca F1s, and a guy called Peter Rees is a sensation over here atm, talk of the town He's blagged a ride in one of the support formula cars, a saloon stox, and he's apparently dishing the bumper out in the true NZ style

All in all, it's safe to report that from Sprint cars to saloons to stock cars, oval racing has many forms and they all seem to be fairly spectacular

oh I nearly forgot, but I wanted to share with you that Sprint cars do race in the UK (and Europe)......It's on an independent-ish series called 'Rolling Thunder show', follow the link for pics (with acknowledgements to) Rolling Start

[/ramble]

HI GUYS,

I'M NEW TO THIS. I AM HARRY VAN DER SPUIJ'S OLDEST SON SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUERIES REGARDING HIM FEEL FREE TO ASK.
YOU'VE PROBABLY FORGOTTEN ABOUT THIS FORUM, BUT JUST IN CASE........

CHEERS JACQUES

[Flat Black 84]

I love sprint car racing. Have loved it ever since my daddy (RIP) took me to my first race at the age of four back in '71.

That was at our local 3/8 mile track which was then called Arena Park Raceway and now goes by the name of Lady Luck Speedway. Currently it is dirt but has gone through asphalt incarnations as well.

I saw many a great race at this track. None of you will have heard the names Dave "Wolfman" Yeager (my cousin), Charlie Bolton, Don Zahn, Sleepy Nelson, George Davidson, Glen Polk, Richard Sweat, Chet Fillip, Larry Holloway, Hershal Cook, Bobby Marshall, Don Colson, and Tim Irwin, but they sure as hell put on a show on our isolated little track back in the 70s. It is the stuff of memories!

Everybody ran a 350 Chevy, and wings were rare up through '75 but became uniform during the second half of the decade.

And incidentally, I'll be venturing out to Lady Luck this coming Friday with my brother for a healthy dose of nostalgia.

PS--Any TNFers spend time at the High Banks? From all I gather, Winchester, Salem and Dayton (when it existed) were that acme of sprint car racing in the 50s and 60s.

Edited by Flat Black 84, 18 May 2009 - 21:40.

[Buford]

PS--Any TNFers spend time at the High Banks? From all I gather, Winchester, Salem and Dayton (when it existed) were that acme of sprint car racing in the 50s and 60s.

No my parents wouldn't take us to see sprint cars. Said they didn't want us to see people get killed. We were a stock car family, but we went to a lot of Midgets and they were deadly too in that era.

[RStock]

Richard Petty is most likely correct when talking about running NASCAR but when it comes to a sprint car on a 1/2 mile or 1/4 mile dirt bull ring the Chev engine seems to make enough power to get the job done. There just seems to be some thing about the Chev that really suits the conditions. I am not suggesting that they may be the best engine for NASCAR where you run wide open throttle for 500 miles

Chevy motors , particularly the small block , are cheap , reliable horsepower . They have a sharper , quicker torque peak which seems to suit the shorter tracks better , compared to the flatter , longer Ford torque range .

I can tell you through experience that parts are much easier , and cheaper to come by . You can find pretty much the same thing for a Ford or Mopar , but there is a much , much wider selection and price range for Chevy parts . Your pretty much fighting an uphill battle using anything else . Unless your like Casey Luna , and just want to prove a point , and it seems like Kenny Woodruff was the only one who could get the full potential from that particular mill . But the Ford or Mopar can be just as effective when done right . And they have made somewhat of a come back as of late , gaining in use .

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 20 May 2009 - 01:05.

[Lee Nicolle]

This another thread that has been hiding!
I have followed Sprinters as they evolved from heavy stockcars to Sportsmen then supermodifieds into sprintcars. Here in Oz our cars these days are the same as the US cars. I still love to watch them race but get very sick of the endless restarts so only see them half a dozen times a season. For what seems a very crude basic piece of equipment is actually very sophisticated. On a good track watching near 800hp unleashed in a 600kilo car is magic but when the track goes dry and dusty they all have to drive half throttle and often get very untidy hence the constant restarts.
In the 70s all sorts of engines were used, Holden 6s, slant 6 Valiants, Falcon 6, 300 Ford truck 6, A Rambler V8,308 Holdens, Windsors, Clevelands, Mopars plus ofcourse Chevvys. As the cars progressed most were Chev powered with the occasional Mopar. once alloy engines came to the fore they were all Chev based with the exception a few years back of a few Mopars which were developed very well in the states and won a World of Outlaws series and a few ended up here too. I think Garry Brazier won a title using a Mopar a few years back. An SA competitor used a late style Holden V8 for a short period but not really succesful [and the chassis was a dog]
The 360 class rules dictate the use of an iron block Chev which I think is a pity as it could be a good class with different engines,you could use a Ford, Mopar and Holden V8 and others too. Though the Chev would still be the cheapest and as good as any other.

[goffer]

Sprint cars = some of the most jaw dropping and intoxicating action you are ever gonna see on a race track. First time I saw them (Ruapuna Speedway, Chch, NZ) I could not believe the speed - was utterly astounded they could make it around the corners. The noise, the stomping, snorting, drama that is a field of sprint cars in full flight - pretty clear why they got called "bullrings". Primal & brutal, but to watch an evenings racing as the drivers search out the traction on high or low lines, dancing on scuffed or pillowed dirt, is poetry in motion

[fredeuce]

For me Sprint Car racing is the best value for my motorsport spectator dollar. End of story.

[Roger39]

Hi Bob - whatever SA tracks are still being used are likely to be bull-rings as you call them. I've totally lost touch with whatever sprint car racing is still taking place - there is some, but nowhere near the scale I described earlier, and not in the major centres. I would love to be contradicted though.

The alternate track to Durban's Alan Ford Stadium was Wembley Stadium in Johannesburg, which was longer than Alan Ford, and possibly closer to 1/2 mile, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately I never watched any racing there.

Thanks as well to Jim and Marty for their postings - I should of course have remembered Dick Zimmerman and while I know the name Carl Adams, it is more for his cars (CAE?), I don't recall seeing him race here. I think there was another American driver in SA but I cannot recall a name....perhaps it was Carl Adams - Google will be put to the test and I will revert.

Cheers for now.

Hey barrykm, I remember the Buddy Fuller racing at Kings Park in the 80's when I was a teeneager. The Sprint cars were fantastic, I remember clearly how they used to get sideways and blast the barriers and people with dirt! :-) Do you remember "Wild" Willie Zurich? They also brought out some overseas speedway stars on one occasion.."The Jellyman" Kelly Moran, Neville Tatum...it was fantastic!
The stadium was demolished and is now the site of the stunning new stadium for the 2010 soccer world cup...

[Flat Black 84]

Sprint cars = some of the most jaw dropping and intoxicating action you are ever gonna see on a race track. First time I saw them (Ruapuna Speedway, Chch, NZ) I could not believe the speed - was utterly astounded they could make it around the corners. The noise, the stomping, snorting, drama that is a field of sprint cars in full flight - pretty clear why they got called "bullrings". Primal & brutal, but to watch an evenings racing as the drivers search out the traction on high or low lines, dancing on scuffed or pillowed dirt, is poetry in motion

That's a very great description.

I'll never forget the night I took my rather delicate and dainty wife to Williams Grove Speedway to see the World of Outlaws back in about 1999. She had never in her life been to a live race of any sort, and boy was she in for an eye-opener.

The first cars took the track for hot laps and one of 'em was inching along right in front of us when the driver suddenly romped on the accellerator. Ha ha! She liked to jumped out of her skin. Next thing I know she was making a beeline to the concession stand for a pair of earplugs. She also visited the ladies room, which, she informed me in no uncertain terms, did not meet her high standards of cleanliness.

As for the the racing, Mark Kinser tore everybody a new one that night and one of his lady fans, who was seated directly behind us, kept on intoning with grave certainty, "Y'all are never gonna catch that Chrysler."

We topped off the night by almost getting run smack over by Darren Pittman in the pitts.

I have been unable to convince my better half to return with me to the races.

Edited by Flat Black 84, 19 May 2009 - 14:46.

[barrykm]

HI GUYS,

I'M NEW TO THIS. I AM HARRY VAN DER SPUIJ'S OLDEST SON SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUERIES REGARDING HIM FEEL FREE TO ASK.
YOU'VE PROBABLY FORGOTTEN ABOUT THIS FORUM, BUT JUST IN CASE........

CHEERS JACQUES

Hi Jacques, great to have you here. As you may have read, I was a huge fan of your dad, and would love to read any news and anecdotes you could share with us - some pictures would be great as well, if possible. In the early 70's as a part-time motorsport photographer I rubbed shoulders with the some of the world's F1 greats at Kyalami (which was great of course), but remember being in awe listening to your dad explain some the fundamentals of sprint car driving to a small audience one evening after a meet at Alan Ford stadium in Durban.

So, any contribution you can make will be most welcome!

[RStock]

One of the great things about Sprint Cars is , even though there is a tried and true formula for building a good , competative car , there is room in the rules for some unusual things to come out still .

Here's a "Computer Designed" Sprint Car that competed in Texas back in the 80-90's


photo used with permission of Rudy Garcia


A good look at an earlier version the car here






I found this photo at the AUDI site awhile back . The only info with it was a caption saying it was Emanuele Pirro testing an AUDI powered Sprint Car , I'm pretty sure it was in New Zealand , or possibly Austrailia . Anyone know any more about this ?


photo copyright AUDIworld.com

[goffer]

Well there is a magazine called "auto trader" in NZ so it's conceiveable. Can someone verify that it is Emanuele behind the wheel ?? I don't know enough to know what the car or location is. Need moar anorak.

[Lee Nicolle]

One of the great things about Sprint Cars is , even though there is a tried and true formula for building a good , competative car , there is room in the rules for some unusual things to come out still .

Here's a "Computer Designed" Sprint Car that competed in Texas back in the 80-90's


photo used with permission of Rudy Garcia


A good look at an earlier version the car here






I found this photo at the AUDI site awhile back . The only info with it was a caption saying it was Emanuele Pirro testing an AUDI powered Sprint Car , I'm pretty sure it was in New Zealand , or possibly Austrailia . Anyone know any more about this ?


photo copyright AUDIworld.com

Some different wings there! And Jeff Swindell won with a Ford. plus a couple of legends in Steve Kinseer and Jack Hewitt. And no fence.

[Lee Nicolle]

Some different wings there! And Jeff Swindell won with a Ford. plus a couple of legends in Steve Kinseer and Jack Hewitt. And no fence.

[barrykm]

No doubt the wings are great for traction as well as sponsor advertising but, to me, they look dreadful. Am I right in thinking that there is a league in the States that runs without wings?

[Peter Leversedge]

I myself prefer non wing sprint cars but if you are allowed to run them you sure need them. I remember one night not having enough attack angle, I increased it slightly and the next race it was like a big hand was holding the car down on the track.

[RStock]

No doubt the wings are great for traction as well as sponsor advertising but, to me, they look dreadful. Am I right in thinking that there is a league in the States that runs without wings?

I myself prefer non wing sprint cars but if you are allowed to run them you sure need them. I remember one night not having enough attack angle, I increased it slightly and the next race it was like a big hand was holding the car down on the track.

It doesn't really matter to me if they have wings or not . I can't say wings add anything to the show other than more speed . But I do like the fact that the big top wings give a "cushion" as an added safety factor , particularly since Sprints are so easy to get on their head . I'm probably more used to wings being here in the states , as even the "Modified" class I used to participate in used wings for the most part .




And Pete is right , if wings are allowed , you must have one . A non-winged car doesn't stand a chance against a winged car . And there are sanctioning bodies here in the states that run without wings , USAC comes to mind first , and the CRA used to be non-winged . But there are lots of tracks that run without wings as a part of their regular schedule races . Even the World of Outlaws ran a lot of non-winged shows early on . I believe the rule was they used them (or not) according to the rules of the track they were at . They later allowed them at all their sanctioned races , it was deemed safer and gave the cars instant grip , which they felt put on a better show .

There is controversy often over who's better , non-winged drivers or winged drivers . Many say the non-winged guys are best . But I remember years back , USAC offered a "bounty" , $10,000 I think it was , to the first regular "Non-winged driver" to beat their regulars . The first time Steve Kinser was in the area , he removed his wing and easily took their money . So it seems you don't hear that argument much anymore , and I don't think USAC has offered another "bounty" like that .

But , the purist form of a Sprint car is one without wings . The modern day Sprint Car is actually an evolution of the Super Modified class (where wings began) and Sprint Cars . We covered this subject and more in this thread . Some of you might like to take a look at it .

http://forums.autosp...rint car racing

[Flat Black 84]

When did wings first make their appearance on sprint cars? I'm guessing around 1970.

PS--I'm also guessing Steve Kinser had far more money and thus much better equipment than the USAC non-winged drivers. And if so, Kinser's defeating those guys does not prove the superiority of the winged drivers. Put Kinser in typical USAC equipment and then let's see how he fares.

Edited by Flat Black 84, 20 May 2009 - 15:57.

[fines]

I would guess that Kinser is the one man who would win regardless of specs... wings or not, you don't win twenty WoO titles without "some" talent!

As for when wings first appeared on Sprint Cars, that's perhaps not so easy to answer: the first wings on Modifieds appeared in 1961, iinm, and the line between Modifieds and Sprints became rather blurred during the latter part of the sixties. And yes, wings add a LOT of speed! IIRC, WoO ran wings and non-wings events on consecutive days on some tracks in the early eighties, and the wings were good for two seconds on a halfmile track!

Looked it up:

1981-05-22 Knoxville pole 18.342" (98 mph) wings
1981-05-23 Knoxville pole 20.192" (89 mph) non-wings

That's a cool 10 % of added average speed!!!

Edited by fines, 20 May 2009 - 17:38.

[RStock]

.

PS--I'm also guessing Steve Kinser had far more money and thus much better equipment than the USAC non-winged drivers. And if so, Kinser's defeating those guys does not prove the superiority of the winged drivers. Put Kinser in typical USAC equipment and then let's see how he fares.

I would guess that Kinser is the one man who would win regardless of specs... wings or not, you don't win twenty WoO titles without "some" talent!

That's kind of the point I was making . Fast and talented is fast and talented , wings or not . But the USAC guys had just as good of equipment . They didn't have Karl Kinser working on it though . That was a distinct advantage , to say the least .

As for when wings first appeared on Sprint Cars, that's perhaps not so easy to answer: the first wings on Modifieds appeared in 1961, iinm, and the line between Modifieds and Sprints became rather blurred during the latter part of the sixties.

Being pedantic here , but that would be "Super Modified" , not "Modified" . They are two different animals . "Modifieds" are actually considered a "Stock Class" , as in "Modified Stock Car" . They require the use of a production car frame , and other such items that set them apart from "Super Modifieds" , which had more open rules .

And yes, wings add a LOT of speed! IIRC, WoO ran wings and non-wings events on consecutive days on some tracks in the early eighties, and the wings were good for two seconds on a halfmile track!

Looked it up:

1981-05-22 Knoxville pole 18.342" (98 mph) wings
1981-05-23 Knoxville pole 20.192" (89 mph) non-wings

That's a cool 10 % of added average speed!!!

A good example of that is something that happened in Florida during Speedweeks in the early 80's , though it involved the "Modifieds" which I mentioned above . Our local cars and the DIRT North Modifieds ran against each other . Our cars had "Skinny Bodies" , as in the photo above I posted , used wings and also ran small block motors . The DIRT North guys ran killer big blocks , and wide body cars with "tunnels" for a wing type effect . They decided to let our cars use their wings , thinking it would give them a chance against the more powerful northern cars .

Our cars literally blew them away , lapping them in short heat races . I don't recall the exact times , but it was at least a 2 sec. difference . The Northern boys loaded their cars on the trailer and refused to run until our cars pulled the wings off . Which they did , and it was our turn to get dusted .

[JimInSoCalif]

Marty, "The Dragon From Galt" in the Bailey Brothers 01. Good photo. I'll see if some of our other members can dig around and name the driver ;) ...let alone where the photo was taken.

I'll echo race4aliving's post and recommend anyone go and check out a Sprint Car race.

I attended my first Sprint Car race in far too many years this past June at Perris, California and it did exactly what race4aliving mentions, it reminded me of everything about motorsports that I fell in love with.

The USAC/CRA series is non-winged as well. I have mixed feelings, as the wings have clearly proved a great safety feature, but do take away a lot of what Simon mentions. Despite a vehement anti-wing camp, I have to disagree on one of their claims in that I've seen some outstanding winged Sprint races as well.

Not only is it a link to the past (Midgets can pass to a degree as well), but dare I say that those two forms of short track open wheel racing, perhaps along with dirt track Late Model racing are the last bastions of "real" racing left.

Hi Jim,

I did not see anyone answer your question from two years ago, so I would say the driver of the Bailey Bros. Sprinter is Leroy Van Connet from Galt and my guess would be the photo was taken at the Calistoga fairgrounds in the Napa Valley in California. NARC used to run without wings until Gary Patterson's fatal accident at Calistoga. I believe they started running wings there and perhaps at a few other tracks.

Louie Vermeil, father of a UCLA football coach (a sport I don't know much about) was President of NARC and did not care for wings. Back in the day, Super Modifieds at San Jose and West Sacramento ran wings and most of the fans I met when I went up north were very fond of winged race cars. I don't know if NARC still exists as I have not found much about it on the net and have pretty much lost touch with Sprint Car racing since Ascot Park closed - gee, can that really be almost 20 years now.

I used to talk occasionally to Leroy Van Connet's son, Roy Lee Van Connet, at the races when he was a teen. I believe he started racing Sprint Cars in the 90's.

I spent most Saturday nights when I was not at another dirt track at Ascot during the 70s and 80s. During the early 70s Sprint Cars were still great looking race cars at CRA races - no wings, grills, and side panels for the engine. At first the cages looked funny, but the next time a car got upside down, they looked really good.

I quoted your whole message because I agree with everything you said so I did not have to repeat it.

Cheers, Jim.

[JimInSoCalif]

Speaking of Sprint Car racing down under, at one time, during our Winter a few drivers from the U.S. would travel to OZ to race. Larry Rice and Gary Patterson are the only two I can think of at the moment but there were a number of others. I don't know if this is still a common practice or not.

Also, around 1980 an Australian driver, Gary Rush, came over here and raced in Northern California for a couple of our Summers. I saw him run at West Capitol in West Sacramento and he was very fast.

Cheers, Jim.

[Lee Nicolle]

Speaking of Sprint Car racing down under, at one time, during our Winter a few drivers from the U.S. would travel to OZ to race. Larry Rice and Gary Patterson are the only two I can think of at the moment but there were a number of others. I don't know if this is still a common practice or not.

Also, around 1980 an Australian driver, Gary Rush, came over here and raced in Northern California for a couple of our Summers. I saw him run at West Capitol in West Sacramento and he was very fast.

Cheers, Jim.

There has been a lot of Yanks come out here to race in Oz, from my memory in the early 60s was Marshall Sargeant plus in the 70s Garry Patterson, Wally Baker, Larry Rice, Leroy Van Connett, Mike Wasina, Sherman Cleveland among a lot more. In the 80s Tim Green, Jack Hewitt, Danny Smith, The Kinsers and lots more. Some of those blokes have came on and off for 2 decades.Danny Smith has just done another tour.These days our summers have at least a dozen Yanks visit.
There has been a lot of Aussies do well in the states too, Rushy was one of the early one s though.

[RStock]

Louie Vermeil, father of a UCLA football coach (a sport I don't know much about) was President of NARC and did not care for wings. Back in the day, Super Modifieds at San Jose and West Sacramento ran wings and most of the fans I met when I went up north were very fond of winged race cars. I don't know if NARC still exists as I have not found much about it on the net and have pretty much lost touch with Sprint Car racing since Ascot Park closed - gee, can that really be almost 20 years now.

As a side note , Louie Vermeils son is Dick Vermeil , and he went on to be a very famous and succesful professional football coach . I believe he is in the hall of fame . I remember Dick retired from coaching at an early age (he came back later) and went to work doing commentary on televised football games . This landed him a job doing work at the Daytona 500 one year , and I remember thinking "what the hell does Dick Vermeil know about auto racing ?" I had no idea he was Louie Vermeils son .

I spent most Saturday nights when I was not at another dirt track at Ascot during the 70s and 80s. During the early 70s Sprint Cars were still great looking race cars at CRA races - no wings, grills, and side panels for the engine. At first the cages looked funny, but the next time a car got upside down, they looked really good.

Mention of Ascot , and the many folks here who have stated what gnarly horsepower beasts sprint cars are reminds me of a story , as told by Chris Economaki . I'll tell it best I can remember it .

Chris and Jackie Stewert were visiting Ascot Park to take in the racing one night . After watching some hot laps , they went for a stroll through the pits . There JC Agajanian calls out to Jackie " Say Jackie , You want to race ? We'll get you a car ! " Jackie replied " No thanks , I left my helmet back in Scotland ." JC answered back , "That's OK , we'll get you a helmet !" . Jackie shook his head no and said " No thanks , I left me balls there too . "


And speaking of sprint cars down under , it's a pet dream of mine to spend a season there watching the sprints . That and a trip to Europe to visit the classic GP tracks , and my life would be complete .

[wenoopy]

There has been a lot of Yanks come out here to race in Oz, from my memory in the early 60s was Marshall Sargeant plus in the 70s Garry Patterson, Wally Baker, Larry Rice, Leroy Van Connett, Mike Wasina, Sherman Cleveland among a lot more. In the 80s Tim Green, Jack Hewitt, Danny Smith, The Kinsers and lots more. Some of those blokes have came on and off for 2 decades.Danny Smith has just done another tour.These days our summers have at least a dozen Yanks visit.
There has been a lot of Aussies do well in the states too, Rushy was one of the early one s though.

Bob (Two-Gun) Tattersall raced in New Zealand several seasons in the 1960's, and i'm sure he raced in Oz as well.
I read an interesting book about Bob a year or two ago, someone bought it on Ebay or similar.

Sadly Bob committed suicide for reasons not clear.

[Peter Leversedge]

Had a drive at Ascot one night in a sprint car ............

[Lee Nicolle]

Bob (Two-Gun) Tattersall raced in New Zealand several seasons in the 1960's, and i'm sure he raced in Oz as well.
I read an interesting book about Bob a year or two ago, someone bought it on Ebay or similar.

Sadly Bob committed suicide for reasons not clear.

Bob Tattersal died of cancer many years ago. His last racing trip here he had treatment[at that time cheaper than the US] but he was too far gone and died soon after arriving back home.
Tatts ever only drove midgets here but did it oh so well.

[McGuire]

I love sprinters, grew up with them. At one end of my neighborhood was the shop of a USAC champion team, at the other a top engine shop. Most every gas station and shop in the area sponsored a sprint car or super modified to run the local tracks.

...At the Mecum auction in Indianapolis this past weekend I saw this late '60s sprinter. Owner says it was formerly driven by Fred Linder, who I saw race countless times -- his home track was Fremont, Ohio. Very typical car for the period. One-off chassis reportedly built by Ed Wyborski, cross-spring front, torsion rear, quick-change rear. Small-block Chevy of course, Hilborn FI. Except for a few older super-style cars with Buicks, Cadillacs, Lincolns, etc, the SBC was nearly ubiquitous by this time. The car didn't sell, failing to meet its $17,000 reserve.

[barrykm]

I love sprinters, grew up with them. At one end of my neighborhood was the shop of a USAC champion team, at the other a top engine shop. Most every gas station and shop in the area sponsored a sprint car or super modified to run the local tracks.

...At the Mecum auction in Indianapolis this past weekend I saw this late '60s sprinter. Owner says it was formerly driven by Fred Linder, who I saw race countless times -- his home track was Fremont, Ohio. Very typical car for the period. One-off chassis reportedly built by Ed Wyborski, cross-spring front, torsion rear, quick-change rear. Small-block Chevy of course, Hilborn FI. Except for a few older super-style cars with Buicks, Cadillacs, Lincolns, etc, the SBC was nearly ubiquitous by this time. The car didn't sell, failing to meet its $17,000 reserve.

Now, that looks good...much better without wings! No problems with a full roll-cage though.

[Jim Thurman]

Hi Jim,

I did not see anyone answer your question from two years ago, so I would say the driver of the Bailey Bros. Sprinter is Leroy Van Connet from Galt and my guess would be the photo was taken at the Calistoga fairgrounds in the Napa Valley in California. NARC used to run without wings until Gary Patterson's fatal accident at Calistoga. I believe they started running wings there and perhaps at a few other tracks.

Louie Vermeil, father of a UCLA football coach (a sport I don't know much about) was President of NARC and did not care for wings. Back in the day, Super Modifieds at San Jose and West Sacramento ran wings and most of the fans I met when I went up north were very fond of winged race cars. I don't know if NARC still exists as I have not found much about it on the net and have pretty much lost touch with Sprint Car racing since Ascot Park closed - gee, can that really be almost 20 years now.

Well done Jim NARC was wings everywhere but Calistoga by the early 80's, which is what made Patterson's accident all the tougher. That was the one track they didn't run wings. Louie Vermeil was adamantly anti-wing and there was almost a fatality a year at Calistoga until the wings were added. The worst injury in several years with the wings was a broken kneecap.

NARC fizzled away after 2000.

[Bob Riebe]

Does anyone here remember why there was a USAC sprint car race at Pocono in "74 in which many top drivers strapped on a sprint car again for that race?

Edited by Bob Riebe, 22 May 2009 - 04:57.

[Chris Frizell]

Hi all, ahhh my beloved Sprintcars...great topic...the rawest toughest roughest most exciting form of motor racing ever invented. The power of an F1 car in a short wheelbase torsion barred monster with hardly any brakes, no gearbox, and 2 rear wheels of different sizes.

I have not been fortunate enough to witness a Sprintcar on full song at one of the epic US half mile tracks, one day perhaps, but I did see a bunch of them on the Bendigo half mile flat track years ago, and it was awesome. Flat out sideways at perhaps 120mph on a cold night, with contrails coming off the wings...a sight to behold.

For those that wish to know more about the great GP, check this site out...

http://www.garypatte...g.com/index.htm

Some of the photographs in here show the great man in fine form, completely sideways in a non-winged sprinter, flat out...just brilliant.

Almost at the bottom of the first photo page is a great shot like this, in the Bailey Bros Sprinter...the essence of car control and raw power all in one...love it..


Chris

[Jim Thurman]

Does anyone here remember why there was a USAC sprint car race at Pocono in "74 in which many top drivers strapped on a sprint car again for that race?

Yes, it was the same reason they similarly drove midgets at Trenton

[fines]

"World Series of Auto Racing" was the name - didn't they plan to run a race each for Sprints, Midgets, Indy Cars and Stockers? Don't think it ever came to pass, though, but it made for an interesting change from the usual diet: Pancho Carter was the hot shoe in Sprints that year, and he was second a week before Pocono at Winchester, and won a week after the event at Salem, yet on the three-quarter mile in Pennsylvania he only managed eighth, behind names like Foyt, Bobby U, Caruthers, Vuky, McElreath, McCluskey and Dallenbach. The race was run in sub-freezing temperature, by the way, 23° F was reported - I believe that's minus 5° C - brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

[Bob Riebe]

"World Series of Auto Racing" was the name - didn't they plan to run a race each for Sprints, Midgets, Indy Cars and Stockers? Don't think it ever came to pass, though, but it made for an interesting change from the usual diet: Pancho Carter was the hot shoe in Sprints that year, and he was second a week before Pocono at Winchester, and won a week after the event at Salem, yet on the three-quarter mile in Pennsylvania he only managed eighth, behind names like Foyt, Bobby U, Caruthers, Vuky, McElreath, McCluskey and Dallenbach. The race was run in sub-freezing temperature, by the way, 23° F was reported - I believe that's minus 5° C - brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Ah-for the days when men were men.

[Bob Riebe]

I looked up Bendigo, and it seems to be a little larger than one-half mile, or else I have the wrong track.

Do they still race there, and on a big track like that you DID get the full effect of the wonderof sprint cars.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 23 May 2009 - 05:19.

[Lee Nicolle]

I looked up Bendigo, and it seems to be a little larger than one-half mile, or else I have the wrong track.

Do they still race there, and on a big track like that you DID get the full effect of the wonderof sprint cars.

Bendigo is about 1/2 mile and is narrow dolomite and near flat.It really is a venue for agricultural shows and the like and I think trots?. I am pretty certain that it has not been used for speedway in over 10 years. Great facility, average track. I actually raced rallyX there in 1980.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 23 May 2009 - 03:43.

[David McKinney]

Peter Leversedge at Ruapuna Speedway (NZ) in his 1986 Ozcar. Former "World Of Outlaws" driver Lee Osborne built Ozcar Sprint & Champ Dirt cars from his shop in Jamestown Indiana. A J Foyt owned an Ozcar Champ Dirt Car raced by George "Ziggy" Snider.

EDIT: Apologies for the size. Blame ImageShack. I've twice set the width correctly, and twice it's ignored me

Edited by David McKinney, 27 May 2009 - 17:13.

[Flat Black 84]

Great pic! You really get a sense of the speed.

[Bob Riebe]

Bendigo is about 1/2 mile and is narrow dolomite and near flat.It really is a venue for agricultural shows and the like and I think trots?. I am pretty certain that it has not been used for speedway in over 10 years. Great facility, average track. I actually raced rallyX there in 1980.

For me, who grew up with cars on a flat half-mile dirt track, there is nothing better.
On my defunct home town track the track widened about three feet as one came out of the corner before the front straight and the site of drivers trying to make use of the brief wider track was a sight to see.
For years there was noting more than two braided wire cables, to keep people from sitting on the front of the grand-stand, and the race cars as they came by sometimes less than three feet from the grand-stand.
It was cover your popcorn and squint to keep the dirt out as they raced by before having to brake for the turn on narrowing straight.
AS Billy S. said "kill all the lawyers."

Edited by Bob Riebe, 29 May 2009 - 18:00.

[wenoopy]

For me, who grew up with cars on a flat half-mile dirt track, there is nothing better.
On my defunct home town track the track widened about three feet as one came out of the corner before the front straigh and the site of drivers trying to make use of the brief wider track was a sight to see.
For years there was noting more than two braided wire cables, to keep people from sitting on the front of the grand-stand, and the race cars as they came by sometimes less than three feet from the grand-stand.
It was cover your popcorn and squint to keep the dirt out as they raced by before having to brake for the turn on narrowing straight.
AS Billy S. said "kill all the lawyers."

There was a sprint car meeting held at Easter 1984 at the Kumeu Showgrounds NW of Auckland NZ. The circuit was a 1/2 mile tri-oval and the event was organised by Barry Butterworth and others. It drew a crowd of 10000 to 15000 depending which news report you read and seemed to have been regarded as a success. It was sanctioned by MANZ and not the Speedway Control Board apparently, and I don't think any other meetings were held, although there was talk of more. As I recall Butterworth was sometimes at odds with the speedway authorities over the years.

Copies of newspaper reports can be found on www.midgetracingnews.com -

[wrighty]

Back to an old thread and unfortunately for the wrong reasons......

I've been informed by his nephew Eddie Lombard of the recent passing of Harry van der Spuij in his native South Africa on Saturday May 25th. The discussion and pictures shared here was based on information transferred from the Stoxnet forum and through that contact (or indeed here) Eddie got in touch to let me know of Harry's unfortunate passing and also to let me know that the funeral will be held this Friday, the 31st of May. Anyone who would like to leave a message or memories of Harry's appearances on our shores are welcome to do so and i'll gladly pass them on to Eddie prior to the service.

Rest In Peace Harry, you'll be sadly missed.

Edited by wrighty, 29 May 2013 - 21:58.