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Maserati question


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#1 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 15:44

Having had succes with my Ferrari thread , I try for this !

In the books Maserati by Crump and de la Rive Box p.67 and A racing history by Pritchard p.57 is pictured
a 6CM1500 in 1936 . Knowing that after Subalpina Scuderia Torino took over most works entries I wonder if the logo on the door is theirs ???? Because it is not a Maserati logo !!! Any help please ????

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#2 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 07:29

Sometimes patience is not my strong side , but am I really alone on this ? There must be a Maserati specialist or two out there ?

#3 GIGLEUX

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 08:29

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Sometimes patience is not my strong side , but am I really alone on this ? There must be a Maserati specialist or two out there ?


Is it an ultimatum?

#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 09:47

Sounds like it, Jean-Maurice!;)

The picture in question is certainly on page 57 in Pritchard. However, for those of us who have the second edition of Crump/Box it's on page 80. :p

Bjørn: you're presumably referring to the tiny - almost indiscernible - thing which might be a logo on the door of the transporter behind the car? 'Fraid I don't have an electron microscope handy ....

But, if you look at the picture of Furmanik's streamlined record-breaker on page 58 of Pritchard it has a logo on the tail which bears more than a passing resemblance to the arms of the Provincia di Torino:

http://www.crwflags....lags/it-to.html

#5 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 14:53

Hi you 2 , the only ultimatum I would state would be against myself ! :smoking:

But it did help, didnt it ? I believe so , having looked at the Torino Flag by Vitesse , I feel sure untill otherwise assured that it would have been the logo , or much alike for Scuderia Torino !

Thanks for that ! :wave:

#6 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 15:57

:wave: guys , I am right now looking for pictures of Maserati racers driven in Sweden or Denmark in the 50s!

Curious , being a Dane racing never interested me that much here ! It has changed a bit now , and I know Moss was at Karlskoga and Roskilde Ring in 1958 . Other Maserati drivers ? Other races ? Pictures or hints where to look ?

1955 A.Loens , B.Musy , J.Behra

1956 : A.Loens , L.Beels ?

1957 : J.Bonnier , A.Loens , L.Beels

1958 : S.Moss , J.Bonnier , U.Norinder

1959 : B.Ljungfeldt , G.Lundgren ,

#7 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 06:27

OK , no luck then , how about a picture or hint to one of Bojnnier in Camoradis T61 at Karlskoga in 1960 ? :|

#8 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 07:50

:wave: DSJs book from 1960 , A STORY OF FORMULA 1 , has a chapter 8, on transporters ,with a couple of pictures . One such picture carries the text : Unloading a Maserati etc.

Can anyone scan or send me a copy of that picture on : kjerbjoern@hotmail.com ?

#9 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 17:52

:( I hope some of you might not have seen these questions ?

#10 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 07:58

:wave: If you please look at post 6 , I have had no luck yet. The races mentioned being of lesser character on the international scene , allthough in some cases big in their respective countries , might have had some mention in magazines like Autosport ? I used to have a lot (but certainly not all) from these days , but never "fell" over reports from the races. Does any of you have race reports ?

#11 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 15:43

Having just looked through my Wimppfen Winged Sports Cars book (again) I notced the Maserati (T60???)
on page 125. Driven by Paratore/Semilia retiring halfway , entered by Scuderia Settecolli , no162 :

Any ideas of the bodywork , selfmade ? Certainly no Birdcage outside !u

#12 coco

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 16:22

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Having just looked through my Wimppfen Winged Sports Cars book (again) I notced the Maserati (T60???)
on page 125. Driven by Paratore/Semilia retiring halfway , entered by Scuderia Settecolli , no162 :

Any ideas of the bodywork , selfmade ? Certainly no Birdcage outside !u

Bjoern,
all T60/61 coachworks where done in-house by Maserati. Only exeption was the T61 #2472 that was born with standart body but later modified by Drogo. This car is today in the Panini-Collection near Modena.

Ciao!
Walter

#13 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 17:36

:wave: Post 7 , got one , thanks !

Post 8 , got it , thanks !

Post 9 : I believe "coco" , you have not seen the picture , the bodywork is NOT a T60/61 , so I assume its "homebuild" by the team or some garage ! :smoking:

#14 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:41

:clap: Here I go again , trying for answers to post 1 & 11 ??? :confused:

#15 D-Type

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:27

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
:wave: Post 7 , got one , thanks !

Post 8 , got it , thanks !

Post 9 : I believe "coco" , you have not seen the picture , the bodywork is NOT a T60/61 , so I assume its "homebuild" by the team or some garage ! :smoking:

I haven't seen the picture either. Are you sure it's a T60/61. The 300S/200S/150S kept on racing in minor events even as late as 1959-60

#16 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:37

The results say its a Birdcage , the picture shows its not (the bodywork) , thats why I ask !

#17 Graham Gauld

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:49

To Bjorn

I noted that earlier you were asking for photos of Jean Behra in 1955. Here is one I took of him at the Tourist Trophy race with the 300s.

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#18 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 14:03

:wave: Hi Graham , to get the oppertunity (with the pic in the right size), to watch a great driver , seeing the concentration in his face in a beautifull car ,is really superb! Did you "just" stand on the opposite of the corner , or with some long distance equipment ? :up: :up: :up:

#19 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 14:21

Surely that is Musso, Graham?????

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#20 Graham Gauld

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 14:26

Bjorn, flattered.

The pic was taken with my trusty Leica IIIB with a 50mm Summar lens because here, at the hairpin at Dundrod you were so close you didn't need a long lens even if you had one. At that time the longest lens I had was a 135mm and it was not until the 1960s I moved up to 200mm and above.
The banks were quite high so you were in no great danger but these were different times, you know.
Indeed it was so long ago I said it was Behra driving the car when of course it was Luigi Musso. This car, I believe, is still owned by Dudley Mason Styrron.

#21 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 14:58

:wave: I did wonder about the Maserati logo , never saw Behra with that ! Barry :up:

But it is still a great picture from a time(danger or not) that will never ever return !! Graham :still :up: :up:

#22 David McKinney

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 16:36

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
This car, I believe, is still owned by Dudley Mason Styrron.

I think he passed it on to Hugh Taylor about five years ago
And if Stan Patterson looks at this thread, he'll recognise it as the ex-Doug Whiteford car :)

#23 Graham Gauld

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 17:06

Bjorn,

Just to keep you happy here is Behra. Note taken from the same position. Also note that he too had a 300S with a trident on the nose. He was later to crash and lose his ear !

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#24 coco

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 21:08

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Bjorn,

Just to keep you happy here is Behra. Note taken from the same position. Also note that he too had a 300S with a trident on the nose. He was later to crash and lose his ear !

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Graham, Bjoern,
both cars are the shortnose version of the 300S. Behra had chassis #3055 (today with Hugh Taylor) and the Musso-car was its sister, chassis #3054 (today with Jose Albuquerque). The Trident-logo on their nosees was a standart specification. Both cars had been modified by the Factory to longnose version over the winter 1955/56.

Great photos Graham! Watch out my 300S-book that hopefully comes out later this year!

Ciao!
Walter.

#25 John Ellacott

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 06:40

Maserati 300S chassis 3055 , Doug Whiteford Longford Tasmania March 1960 Australian Tourist Trophy meeting

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#26 John Ellacott

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 07:17

Another photo of 3055 from the time when we had two of these wonderfull cars down under.
Sandown Park Melbourne March 1962 . Other car is Tom Sulman Lotus Eleven

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#27 coco

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 08:26

Originally posted by John Ellacott
Another photo of 3055 from the time when we had two of these wonderfull cars down under.
Sandown Park Melbourne March 1962 . Other car is Tom Sulman Lotus Eleven

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John,
great photos! Thanks for sharing. #3055 was more modified to "semi-longnose"-specs. by the Factory. It was in a poor state when it came back to Europe and it took a long resto to get it back on its wheels. IMO its today the only 300S that is painted in its correct Maserati "Rosso Corsa"-color (more a red-orange than a red!).(':clap:')

Ciao!
Walter

#28 John Ellacott

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:13

Bathurst October 1960, Doug Whiteford in 3055 in a bit of trouble

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#29 John Ellacott

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:18

As Whiteford stands by his car the ex Moss Maserati 300S 3059 driven by Bob Jane comes by.

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#30 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:51

Originally posted by John Ellacott
Bathurst October 1960, Doug Whiteford in 3055 in a bit of trouble

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Comparing the stripe on the bitumen in the second pic to the lack of stripe in this one, yes, I'd say Doug had his hands full. Any idea what the problem was?

#31 coco

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:56

Originally posted by John Ellacott
As Whiteford stands by his car the ex Moss Maserati 300S 3059 driven by Bob Jane comes by.

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I assume that one of the drive-shafts broke. It was a common problem with the 300S/250F. I also had that bad experience when I drove #3056 in Nothern Italy some years ago. During the restoration of #3055 in England it was found that the original shafts had been replaced in Australia.

Very nice photos -again! Thanks John!

Ciao!
Walter

#32 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 06:56

:wave: Graham , thanks again , now for the Behra picture with his grimmy face , in anaother beate of a 300S. Also for the infos to taking the picture. To have experienced that.....!!!!!!!!!

Also great from John of Oz pictures , in the still pictures I couldnt resist looking at those typical 1950 (in Europe) transport trailers !

#33 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 13:09

:wave: Answer to post 11 : Its a 200S ! Seen Barrys model as well!

#34 Loren Lundberg

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 15:16

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
OK , no luck then , how about a picture or hint to one of Bojnnier in Camoradis T61 at Karlskoga in 1960 ? :|


Svensk Motor Tidning, September 1, 1960, pg 29; and "Motor", "Nr 33 1960", "26 Aug", on pages 18 & 19.

#35 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:21

:wave: Thanks Loren !

Please readers , read post 1 & 4 ? Any more help ?

#36 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 04:47

:wave: Would ANY of you have the SLIGHEST interest in a model of the Maserati T151/3-1964 in scale 1/87
????????? Please let me now or tell on the Racing models in 1/87 scale thread !

#37 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 14:26

:wave: Maseratis Fiat Bartoletti 642 race transporter which is a lookalike to all 3 Ferrari types , and the same as Ferraris 2 expls. Maserati had it from 1957 , does any of you know what happened ??????

#38 Graham Gauld

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 16:08

Some years ago when writing an article about Modena I included in the pictures a colour transparency of the Maserati Bartoletti transporter in 1957. As often happened, the magazine did not send it back so if anyone comes across a colour shot of the Maserati transporter in the paddock at Modena let me know as I want to return it to its rightful place in my collection.

#39 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 16:29

:wave: And now you want :smoking: me to send a copy of my 117 pics.......? No honestly , I do NOT have any originals etc, but if it would be any help I have a good copy(es) of yours I think ?

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#40 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 18:58

Should any of you be interesterd in a sculpture of your favorite Maserati , (I would be on the Monster T151/3-1964 ), then have a look at Marcs thread :My Auto Union D type Sculpture or/and his website too ! I know his is willing to do most , if interests are there ! :smoking:

#41 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 14:18

:wave: This is no question , but sometimes infos on the "a place to say" books thread drown ..... :

The book Toulo de Graffenried is a must for Maserati collectors or lovers !

Also Karl Ludvigsens new Red Hot rivals is very good : 336 pages , glazed paper lots of pictures and a very interesting text............. and while you are at it get his Classic Grand Prix cars at an undecently low price too !

#42 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 19:12

Sometime , I believe in the late 60's or early 70's , Autosport carried an article of about 4 or 6 pages on the Maserati 250F1 , small stories to each chassis no. , with some COLOUR pictures , amongst them their transporter , a Temple Buell car and one from a 250F the cockpit . Do any of you recall the Autosport issue / date ??? If so , please cpme forward and tell ! :smoking:

#43 David McKinney

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 19:16

Can't think of anything before Sept or Oct 1981

#44 rudi

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 19:42

Was Sept 24 1981.

#45 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 20:09

Thanks a lot , holy mackarel , what did I do in 10+ years ?

#46 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 15:32

Does anyone know what shade of red Maserati used from 1934 to 1939(1949) and did they use other colours when in 1935 Sub Alpina and in 1936 Torino ran the cars ?

#47 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 17:28

Maserati did not go bankrupt. Please , if anyone wants to discus the matter , enter your thoughts here.

#48 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 17:55

Bjørn, I didn't claim they did. As Duncan and I said in the other thread they were near bankruptcy, essentially under the control of a receiver, due to a law suit brought by a small creditor. This compelled them to apply for "'controlled administration', an Italian legal device only a step away from the receivership familiar in other countries". (quoted from "Maserati 250F" by David McKinney, page 99) Add that to their financial difficulties brought on by a combination the Italian authorities and the Orsis' bankers they were deep in the brown and sticky stuff. (ibid page 97)

#49 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:01

Thanks for your reply. I did overreact , because I have read more than one time that they did go bankrupt and this was the reason for withdrawing from racing with a works team. And I did not read your words properly , may have to do a bit with languages too.

The fact according to my research was that Maserati got out of their trouble all by themselves by selling out and reorganizing and did not receive help from anyone.
(Also they did never recieve promised money from the government, as opposed to Ferrari. )

Not to say that I know all fact or the truth..............

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 23 July 2010 - 04:27.