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Speed's ultimate price: the toll...


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#3501 ReWind

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Posted 02 January 2024 - 12:21

In your eyes, Michael, this then must also be death pornography? The fact that the commemorative wall shows the names of all victims of the 1998 Eschede accident presumably means that none of their relatives thought it offensive.

But they all must have lacked common sense, mustn’t they?

 

I cannot imagine that you are not old or smart enough to realize that different people have different views on certain things.
Your problem, Michael, seems to be that you do not realize that there is no guarantee that your point of view is the only one that is compelling and conclusive.

 

BTW, embarrassing is the way you convert my question (How many relatives of victims of racing accidents do you know that are offended by entries on the Motorsport Memorial website?) into a statement (I don't know anyone who does, so there can't possibly exist anyone) that is not mine. It seems you misunderstood the reason of that question which refers to the problem I just pointed out.



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#3502 Michael Ferner

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Posted 02 January 2024 - 13:44

It is ridiculously pointless whether I know someone who is offended, and I can see no other reason why you posted that question, but yes, maybe my PoV is blinkered. But so is yours, suggesting that I think the relatives of the Eschede victims must lack common sense. The point is, even if this accident is already almost ancient history, I would guess that the question whether those relatives wanted the names published in that way was almost certainly discussed with them. It has absolutely nothing at all in common with publishing names on a website without consent, but you probably knew that and ignored it to drive home your point.

 

Yes, people have different views and different standards. My problem is not that I think my PoV is the only one with merit, my problem is that MM does not care about those different views and merely shrugs them aside. And I still fail to see the point in publishing specator names. Let's just take, for example, that dark day in Monza history when Wolfgang von Trips and dozens of spectators died in that one big accident. Is it good and meaningful to commemorate the accident with an entry at MM? Yes, of course. Does von Trips's name belong there? Why, yes, perhaps people will take an interest in his life, and in any case he was there to perform before public, so no problem. What about the names of marshals and track workers? A bit more tricky, as you can hardly expect people to take an interest in the individuals, but they were there on duty and died performing a task without which motorsport would hardly be possible; it's good practice to thank and commemorate the 'invisible helping hands' of the 'without whom department', even if it may be impossible to get clearance from relatives. But the spectators? Who benefits from knowing their names? What purpose does that serve? Why would you violate their right to remain anonymous? It's bad enough that those who were responsible for spectator safety did not do a proper job to protect them, why would you then want to drag their names through the mire, without even knowing (or caring) who they were?

 

And before the next one comes and goes on about war memorials with the names of innocent victims etc., let's just take a deep breath and think about why there's a big difference. C'mon, it's really not that complicated!



#3503 Doug Nye

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Posted 02 January 2024 - 14:22

" My problem is not that I think my PoV is the only one with merit... ".

 

Perhaps that is not a perception that some here - and in the wider world - might always share, Michael?  

 

DCN



#3504 dmj

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Posted 02 January 2024 - 15:02

I just called a friend who wrote a few books about Preluk races and he confirmed that accident happened. He will send me more details but, in the meantime, I can confirm that accident occurred during the race, at the first bend. Apparently, after some contact a tire was catapulted into the seating area, killing two spectators, a Slovenian boy and a man from Caserta, Italy, who was there on a wedding trip.

 

Adding to thoughts provoked by recent discussion here, newly married Italian couple weren’t racing fans at all, they just rented a room nearby and, with roads blocked due to race, decided to attend it. Wife was pregnant and later gave birth to a son who visited Opatija a few years ago to see where it happened, and met my friend.

 

 

 

In his book "Doctor on the Grid", Tony Goodwin reported a fatal accident involving one (or more?) spectators, during the "Consolation Race" - which he won - of the 1967 Grand Prix Adriatique, international Formula 3 race held at Opatija (he indicated 18 June as the date, but it was 18 August 1967).

 

 

He wrote "... confusion broke out behind and a Melkus ploughed into the crowd, causing some fatalities. The track was filled with ambulances and spectators and on one occasion I had to brake sharply to avoid a child running across the track..."

 

I am unable to find any other available source confirming this fatal accident, who was the driver involved as well as the number and the names of the victims.

 

Any help?

 



#3505 Jim Thurman

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Posted 02 January 2024 - 17:44

My thoughts regarding Jim's experiences would be the survivors looking at their departed as being selfish and throwing their life away in pursuit of some crazy racing dream without regard to the feelings of their loved ones. Could be they are pissed that their friend/relative didn't listen to their concerns and are gone due to the very reasons they feared.

I don't presume to understand what's gone on within these families, but in the few cases where family members contacted Motorsport Memorial, that - at least - is the starting point. Tales of abuse, adultery and general ne'er do well behavior have been shared. In one case, by more than one family member. They literally complained that the subject wasn't worthy of being remembered in a positive light. A sadder case yet was one where there were generational signs of delusion on a grand scale.

 

I've always been a big proponent of "warts and all" reporting. Not all of these racers were first-class citizens, let alone "heroes." But, that's only in cases where we have concrete corroboration via contemporary newspaper reports. I don't judge either. People are complex. I've run across legal issues for some racers that range from comical and minor to quite distressing. C'est la vie.



#3506 Michael Ferner

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Posted 14 February 2024 - 23:02

A bit of detail on John Sandrock:

 

Series was the ARI (Auto Racing, Incorporated) Championship sanctioned by IMCA, round 47 of 47

 

Event type was the consolation race, fifth and penultimate event on the programme, stopped after four of the five laps because of the accident

 

Venue was Muskogee Fairgrounds

 

Vehicle sub-type Big car/Sprint car

 

Vehicle brand/model Rutherford

 

Vehicle number 62

 

This was the 'house car' of constructor Melvin "Slim" Rutherford from Whiting/Indiana, recently retired as driver but still active as engine and car builder. Sandrock had been driving the Rutherford for about two months, finishing a good sixth at he Nebraska State Fair earlier in September after winning the consy there, but also escaping from a dangerous moment when the car caught fire at the Minnesota State Fair in late August. At Muskogee (a 'pumpkin date' with barely a dozen cars in the pits) he fought for the lead with fast timer Clair Cotter (third in ARI points) in the consy when he lost control. As a footnote, both the IMCA and promoter Frank Winkley had, even before the races, drawn attention to the fact that all the drivers were covered by a special and new accident and life insurance issued by Lloyd's of London. In a local newspaper on the morning of the races, an IMCA official was quoted as saying "that the drivers will be piloting their roaring mounts faster, harder and taking more chances than ever before" because of the new insurance plan - different times!