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Speed's ultimate price: the toll...


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#601 Udo K.

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Posted 04 September 2002 - 13:28

Yes, great work, Stefan.

Midget racing must have been a damn dangerous affair....

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#602 Jim Thurman

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Posted 04 September 2002 - 21:51

Originally posted by Udo K.
Yes, great work, Stefan.

Midget racing must have been a damn dangerous affair....


Yes, great job Stefan. My big project after the next big project, is to make some corrections and additions to Ed Watson's "Tribute". Ed was nice enough to send a copy along (and a big thanks to Don Radbruch for suggesting I contact him :up: )

Udo,

Yes, Midget and Sprint racing in the pre-roll bar and seat belt days was very dangerous. For the Midgets - small tracks, remarkably potent little cars, fence posts, often bad track conditions and preparations, sometimes poor medical help...not a good recipe. The Sprint Cars were more of the same only on larger tracks.

I not exactly that old...yet :) , but the first races for both Midgets and Sprints I attended...they still were running with just the roll bar, no roll cage (of course, one was when I was 9 years old and one when I was 10, but it gives an idea how late it was when they mandated cages - 1970 for Sprints most everywhere, Midgets IIRC in 1971).


Jim Thurman

#603 LB

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Posted 04 September 2002 - 23:52

I dunno weither this has been mentioned before. ( if it has it was probably by me)

38 year old Robert Leonard died when his car flipped and landed on him at Western Springs Speedway. After inspections of the vehicle, police have now confirmed they are unlikely to be laying any criminal charges in connection with the incident.

from a New Zealand website I found on google dated Feb 22nd 1999. Accident actually happened in the previous week at sometime.

I was there at the time and remember it well as it happened directly infront of me ( I should be able to find the exact date if I could find my old passport I left NZ the following day I was only there two...)

Leonard was driving a Midget and got tangled up between another car and the wall on the backstretch, the vehicle was launched into the fence and barrel rolled along it, as the car had almost finished spinning Leonard came out of his harness and fell onto the track the car rebounded off the fence and landed on top of him.

Its the only time I have witnessed a fatality first hand and I have no wish to do so again. :(

#604 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 00:18

Originally posted by Stefan Ornerdal
Posted by Don Capps:

I have.
Here:
http://user.tninet.s...lities_Head.htm

I am not very satisfied over these lists (Barry Lake knows why, I presume) so I have started to change it. Please take a look here: http://user.tninet.s...291w/F40_49.htm and tell me what you think.

Stefan


It is a truly wonderful piece of work, Stefan, but I did notice one big mistake. Consalvo Sanesi is listed as dying in 1951, when he actually went on to live until 1998, when he died peacefully. Nitpicking I know, but I know you'd want it to be right, just as I want to get my info right. :)

#605 Barry Lake

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 01:57

LB

Can you tell us at which speedway this crash occurred?


Stefan

I can't tell you just how pleased I am that you are attending to the Motor Racing is Dangerous listing. I made the dreadful mistake of incorporating a very early version of this into my own listing so I could compare the information. The idea was to simply look at the two entries (mine and the imported one), say "Yep, both agree" then delete the imported entry. When I find differences, I then go searching books and the web to ascertain which entry is incorrect. The problem was that, with this list, there seemed to be an endless supply of incorrect information. In 99% of cases it is the information imported from that dreaded listing. After many months (or is it years now) I am still weeding out the rubbish.

And I have hassled poor Richie Jenkins, seemingly endlessly, to check dates that never should have had to be checked.

There were a few examples of my gaining new information, but not many - and then many of these I subsequently found to be incorrect or partially incorrect.

Unfortunately I did not provide myself with an easy way of just jettisoning the whole thing.

Words don't exist to describe the anger I feel every time I waste yet more time trying to rid myself of this... er... crap is the only word I can think of.

Now I know you didn't create the list yourself, and I often wonder what happend to the person who did - who appeared briefly on The Nostalgia Forum, had some errors pointed out, and disappeared, as far as I know, never to be heard from again.

The errors are obviously the work of someone who continually hit the wrong keys (a 5 instead of a 6 for example), who frequently read a driver's name from one line and added the date from the next driver's line, who was prepared to take a guess at whether a crash happened in practice or in a race, who apparently invented some categories of car, who was prepared to take wild guesses at venues and dates and other information just to fill empty spaces, and so on. And, even worse, who appeared NEVER to check or correct his own work.

And the part that upset me the most - and still does - is that it appears I am the only person in the world who noticed these glaring mistakes.

It is really frightening to me to think that, even with all the accumulated knowledge of the experts - many of them infinitely more knowledgeable on the subject of GP racing than I am - on The Nostalgi Forum, I don't remember anyone picking up these mistakes other than myself. I can only assume that each person develops his own list or lists and never again refers to those on the web.

Even I didn't try to make corrections; there were simply too many. I just dismissed the list from my 'places to look'. The unfortunate part, from your point of view, is that also meant I didn't go back to your web site at all, and therefore probably have missed a lot of entertaining and informative reading.

In fact it turned me off going to any similar web site. I even have found mistakes in the much-lauded Forix (not to mention the fact that I can't figure out how to find the extra information I want when it limits a list to 100 entries - and I need more than 100 answers). Just last week I came across some incorrect dates for non-championship GPs from the otherwise excellent and very helpful (8W, is it?) list. At the time I was too tired to make a note of them to have them corrected. I just corrected them on my own version. So those mistakes still exist on the web. Now I have guilt feelings that I didn't fix them, but no longer have the time to go through the entire exercise again.

Having been involved in publishing books and magazines for about a third of a century now, I know how difficult it is to eradicate mistakes. Next to impossible, in fact, because human beings are not perfect. But I derive enjoyment from being able to 'tidy up' some of the very few errors that creep into well-researched material such as Hanz Etzrodt's GP Winners list and get it a little closer to the ideal. But outright anger is my response when confronted with sheer shoddiness.

Usually, when I want to know something, I don't try to look it up on a web site that I think probably is never proof-read, never corrected, I ask the experts (or more correctly, relentless searchers for the truth) on TNF. Thank you to the likes of Hans Etzrodt, Richie Jenkins, Darren Galpin, David McKinney, Roger Clark, Milan Fistonic, Michael Ferner, Jim Thurman, Felix Muelas, Carles Bosch, Marc Ceulemans, Alessandro Silva, Allen Brown, Michael Muller, Brian Lear, Tim Dudley, Quintin Cloud, Mike Argetsinger, Rob Ryder, Don Radbruch, and (although I mostly disregard people without 'real' names), Vitesse2, Ensign14, Udo K, and others.

I am mentioning those who come to mind as people who have supplied information that has been interesting or useful to me. There will be others who perhaps are equally informative, but perhaps in areas that do not directly interest me. Of course, inevitably I will have missed some names, and there are many informative newcomers coming in whose names have not yet sunk in (especially when they are not real names). There are those who only post when they have something important to say, so have provided useful facts but don't readily leap to mind. Others who have contributed long ago and, seemingly on sabbatical, also are not easily remembered. But you get the message. I am extremely grateful to all. And I am especially grateful to Bira for creating Atlas F1 and TNF and to Don Capps for overseeing the whole thing. How else would I ever have had access to so much information and friendly interchange of ideas?

All of this is in direct contrast to people who are prepared to put carelessly compiled information on the web without checking it, and without caring how many others plagiarise the mistakes and repeat them ad infinitum.

More worrying still, is the fact that motor racing sites are probably among the best of all web sites. It gets worse when you go to other areas.

As an exercise, if anyone wants to test this theory, try searching for some dates of important events on the web and see how many different answers you get. Did you know, for example, that the Berlin Wall was erected overnight, not once, but on at least eight different - and quite widely varying - occasions? I suppose it could have been due to shoddy workmanship, or perhaps people were tearing it down as fast as they built it. But I suspect it's more likely due to people desperate to get "something" on the web, whether for misguided self gratification, or for the hope of financial gain.

Did you know that an Australian runner won events in the very first modern Olympic Games in Athens as long as four months before the games officially began - even though you have a number of options as to when those games really began? Oh, there are many amazing facts on the world wide web...

Now that I have vented my spleen, can I go back to work?

Sorry Stefan. I know it's not your fault, but that list burned me, badly. I won't forget it in a hurry. And thank you, again, for your efforts to put the matter right. The way it is displayed is excellent. I will now follow the progress with interest and will assist where possible.

#606 LB

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 02:52

Originally posted by Barry Lake
LB

Can you tell us at which speedway this crash occurred?


I did,

Western Springs, Auckland. It was an Aus v NZ sprint car thing this race was on the undercard. Actually If I rummage about enough I have the programme somewhere - will get back to you after the weekend.

#607 Mark Beckman

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 04:48

Andrew Carpenter - name of Marshall killed at Goodwood 2000

#608 LittleChris

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 08:43

Two more to add sadly from this weeks Autosport.

Tony Clinkard ( 1955 - 2002 ) and Stefan Gilboy ( 1964 - 2002 ) were both killed at Cadwell Park last Sunday. Both were driving Cobra clones in the Sports Racing & GT Challenge race when Gilboy apparently put a wheel on the grass approaching Coppice. His car turned right into Clinkards sending both into the tyre barrier. Gilboy was pronounced dead at the scene whilst Clinkard succumbed that evening following emergency surgery.

:(

#609 dmj

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 10:46

I believe that Kesjar Csaba, a Hungarian F2 driver that had his fatal accident in Norisring on 14. July1988, wasn't yet mentioned in this thread. He was supposed to be first Eastern European F1 driver in decades...

#610 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 11:25

Posted by Barry Lake:

Sorry Stefan. I know it's not your fault


It is. I should have known to be more careful with sources.

The site is now closed.
I will work on it, to keep it updated and make it correct, but I do not know if there will be "a second coming" on the Internet. Is there any need to have such a list on the Net, if ever so correct and well researched?

Stefan

#611 Criceto

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 11:28

On the September 1 accident at Cadwell Park - I have programmes for the series in question, although not this Sunday's programme, and the "Cobra clones" Little Chris correctly refers to were both recorded in the past as RAM sports cars.

Just in case anyone wants to be precise in their listings.

On a personal note, I saw Stefan and Tony racing on many occasions, and the news came as a dreadful shock.

#612 LittleChris

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 12:02

Originally posted by dmj
I believe that Kesjar Csaba, a Hungarian F2 driver that had his fatal accident in Norisring on 14. July1988, wasn't yet mentioned in this thread. He was supposed to be first Eastern European F1 driver in decades...


dmj,

He was actually racing in the German F3 championship at the time and IIRC had had a run in a Zakspeed F1 car recently. Apparently his car went straight on at the Station Hairpin and hit a barrier head on. There were rumours that he may have had a blackout, but I never heard anymore about the cause of the accident

#613 ghinzani

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 15:12

Csabas teammate was Bernd Schneider and he did indeed test a Zakspeed in 1987..

#614 Barry Lake

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Posted 06 September 2002 - 02:01

Originally posted by dmj
I believe that Kesjar Csaba, a Hungarian F2 driver that had his fatal accident in Norisring on 14. July1988, wasn't yet mentioned in this thread. He was supposed to be first Eastern European F1 driver in decades...


dmj

I have this on record, but have the date as 24 June 1988. Guess what source I have for that? And do you see how it could be a result of hitting the 2 key instead of the 1, and the 6 instead of the 7 - and not bothering to check what was typed?

While 24 June is a Friday, 14 July is a Thursday. Was the crash during practice?


Stefan

Sorry again to contribute to your heartache on that list. But regarding your question, yes I do believe there is a need for such information. Not necessarily "up in lights" to tell the world at large, but at the very least somewhere that it can be accessed by genuine researchers - especially via the new portal that is being developed on Atlas F1.

This is important history, and I also believe we owe it to those who lost their lives helping to create the sport we all love so much, to be remembered in some small way. Even if it is as simple as having the tragedy recorded on a list.

If I had been one of the unlucky ones, I would much prefer the world knew what happened to me than have a very few people thinking, "Whatever happened to that, er, what was his name again..."

#615 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 06 September 2002 - 12:24

Barry,

I also think there is a need for such a list, but it can work against us!
A few days ago I discovered a link to my site from a personal web-page, a family who has a personal "vendetta" against the governing body in an american racing series. I have now lost the address to this site but the driver who lost his life was Mike Gagliardo. As I see my web-page as a Tribute to those drivers who crashed fatally I don't want it to be used in this way!

Good idea to have such a list here at atlasf1, accesable only for TNFers.

Stefan

#616 Barry Lake

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Posted 06 September 2002 - 15:25

Stefan

I found the site about Gagliardo. Haven't had a look at it yet, but the other one (racingpress.com) has an interesting article about this fatality.

www.makeracingsafe.org

www.racingpress.com/publish/article_61.shtml

#617 Barry Lake

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Posted 06 September 2002 - 15:49

It sounds like they might have a genuine gripe about this whole deal.

Looks like someone wasn't playing by the rules, someone else might not have been enforcing the rules.

Another interesting discovery. A story on one of the linked sites states there have been 14 fatalities at Mosport Park. I have only seven. It looks like we might be a long way from finishing this tragically long list.

#618 Barry Lake

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Posted 06 September 2002 - 15:57

And I found the following, too ("that same weekend" refers to October 2001):

"But that same weekend, drag racer Wayne Bailey died after crashing during the IHRA World Finals at Red River Raceway in Gilliam, La. Since then, accidents have claimed several lives.

"Short track driver Al Papini in Rockford, Ill. Former Formula One driver Michele Alboreto at the Lausitzring circuit in Germany, and a marshal at that same track a week later. 17-year-old Washington native Ashley Bergman, a student at the one-day Competitive Edge Racing School. SCCA driver Ralph W. Ridge III at an SCCA Club racing Double Regional event near Grand Rapids, Mich.

"61-year-old John Bankston at a sprint car event in Rossburg, Ohio. 39-year-old cross country endurance biker John Deacon at the Masters Rally in Syria. A marshal at the F1 Australian Grand Prix. 50-year-old Michael Roberts during a race practice in Lebanon, Mo. Several spectators after a car lost control at Jerez de los Caballeros rally in Spain.

"Mike Gagliardo, during the Trans-Am Series 125 event in Bowmanville, Ohio. A driver's wheelchair-bound mother at an event in Amherst, Ohio. Alex Cope at the Northwest Clay Cup sprint car event in Bellingham, Wash.

"Plus, Dean Roper."


Must be some in there we'd missed. Unfortunately there are no dates.

#619 dmj

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Posted 06 September 2002 - 16:20

I will check my old magazines for exact date of Csaba's death. "My" date was stated by one Hungarian TNF member in this thread: http://www.atlasf1.c...highlight=csaba F2 reference was from my memory, obviously not working so good. But I believe Geza Sury should know this for sure.

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#620 Jim Thurman

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Posted 07 September 2002 - 23:54

Originally posted by Barry Lake


Stefan

Sorry again to contribute to your heartache on that list. But regarding your question, yes I do believe there is a need for such information. Not necessarily "up in lights" to tell the world at large, but at the very least somewhere that it can be accessed by genuine researchers - especially via the new portal that is being developed on Atlas F1.

This is important history, and I also believe we owe it to those who lost their lives helping to create the sport we all love so much, to be remembered in some small way. Even if it is as simple as having the tragedy recorded on a list.

If I had been one of the unlucky ones, I would much prefer the world knew what happened to me than have a very few people thinking, "Whatever happened to that, er, what was his name again..."


Well said Barry.

I've posted before that I have had serious misgivings about getting involved in this sort of project. But, the spirit of "getting it right" and the sincerity of those involved has brought me around. It doesn't mean I still don't have some misgivings.

My main concerns with posting this info to the net was the likelihood of the incredibly negative, incredibly lazy U.S. "journalists" abusing the information and taking it out of context for yet another anti-racing diatribe. Like the drivel (or should I say dribble?) that came from the Charlotte (North Carolina) Observer in it's investigative piece "Death At The Track". Not to say that they didn't bring up some valid points, but the overall tone was terrible and the errors (some intentional IMO) were truly insipid.

I can see the chronicling of racing fatalities being instantly misused by the U.S. media. While short track deaths need to be included on a list to make it truly comprehensive, I also feel deaths through off track accidents, illnesses and natural causes must be included to truly give context. As bad as the number of fatalities were in the open wheel, open cockpit ranks in the pre-roll cage days, the fact remains that most of those guys lived long lives. And this is where a major problem comes in. The passing of your average U.S. short track racer goes overlooked, often even in his hometown. So how can one chronicle and give the list some true perspective when that information is so difficult to come by?

I also would like to see a similar compilation of the nearly 1000 U.S. football (gridiron) deaths to provide a counterbalance. Of course, the U.S. media will always find a way to excuse those deaths. Somehow, it's worthy when a football player dies, yet pointless when a racer dies. To quote myself in a discussion on why auto racing deaths are reported differently than football deaths: "Because a fatal racing crash, sometimes with flames, is much more spectacular than when a football player dies, but you know what?...a football player snapping his neck is every bit as dead."

Generally speaking, I've noticed a common weakness being European writers having difficulty with U.S. racing and vice versa (let's don't even bring up racing in the Antipodes, South America, Africa or Asia!).

So, considering that, I think Stefan and Rainer both have done great jobs :up: Instead of criticizing, I intend to help and correct the errors.

Stefan, you now have "Tribute", the same publication I do and I've been rather busy...so that's why you haven't heard from me.

After my most pressing project, I intend to tackle this. Even in "Tribute", I've noticed some errors and some missing. For example it's Max Wickey (not Wiki) who died in a crash at Champion Speedway, Brisbane, California in 1966. I have the regional racing paper with a report on the accident.


Jim Thurman

#621 MPJay

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 01:27

From the Mosport Site:

We are saddened by the loss of Julio Haig following a racing accident on lap 2 of the GT regional race at Mosport this past Sunday (September 15, 2002).

:cry: I'm pretty close to Mosport, yet never been there, never smelled the fumes of racing gas, nor have i sampled the sheer noise of motor racing yet in person. It doesn't make this any less real, as armchair enthusiasts very well know, when your heros large or small fall, we feel the loss.

God speed Julio

#622 Darren Galpin

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 07:07

From www.motorsport.com:

Supermodified driver Dion Parish dies in testing
OBITUARIES STOCKCAR ISMA

2002-09-16


It is with great sadness and deep regret that the 3-D Motorsports Racing Team wishes to pass along the news of the tragic and untimely passing of their driver, and friend, Dion Parish of Kalamazoo, MI.

Dion was lost to us on Saturday, September 14 2002 in a practice crash at Kalamazoo, (MI), Speedway. Dion was in the midst of shaking down his recently finished supermodified in preparation for the upcoming Midwestern Supermodified Association, (MSA), race at Sandusky, (OH), Speedway when the car suddenly and without warning went straight in turn two at Kalamazoo.

Dion had turned several slow laps on the fast 3/8 without any problems and was just getting the car up to speed when the crash happened. According to crew chief Dan Emmons, Dion had come out of turn four slightly higher than he had on previous laps. He accelerated normally down the front stretch and rolled out of the throttle entering turn one. As he accelerated entering turn two the car suddenly and inexplicably went straight and up the track. Dion left the track proper and hit the Kalamazoo Speedway Safety truck that was parked on the outer edge of the track just outside of turn two. It is believed that the impact with the safety vehicle killed Dion instantly.

Contrary to early reports the throttle on the car did not stick. "Dion clearly rolled out of the throttle going into one and then was accelerating through the apex of the corner when the car suddenly went straight," said Emmons. "At this point for all I know he could have blown a tire, but there's no way the throttle stuck and until I look at the car further I won't know for sure what happened, if we ever do. Right now that's the furthest thing from my mind."

Dion's passion was the supermodified division, which is known as "The Ultimate Short Track Race Car." Reaching speeds as fast as Indy type cars on one-mile ovals, Dion knew the risks inherit with this type of oval racing, but was willing to take that risk to follow his dream. While working with a shoestring budget he had completely refurbished his new car and was looking forward to doing battle with the MSA regulars for the last two races of the season.

His friends will remember him as intense, driven, and dedicated to the division he loved so well. However, they will also remember him as a lighthearted jokester that always had a smile and was willing to lend a hand whenever a fellow competitor needed it.

Funeral arrangements have been made with Betzler Funeral Home located at 6080 Stadium Drive, Kalamazoo, MI 49609. Services will be held on Thursday, September 19 at 1pm in the afternoon with burial Friday, September 20 at Fort Custer National Cemetery in Battle Creek, MI.

His wife Julie and daughters Mindy & Lindsey, and son Kenny survive Dion. Pending further notification and arrangements the family has asked for a time of bereavement and personal grief. The Parish family wishes to extend a heart-felt thank you to all of the racing community for everything it has done to help further Dion's dream of racing supermodifieds as well as all of the sincere expressions of sympathy already expressed.

Parish often competed with the ISMA supermodified organization in regional competition.

-cdh-

#623 Darren Galpin

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 07:46

From October 2002 Motorsport: Hermann Kuehne, killed driving a Mercedes in the 1962 Gran Premio Internacional Standard Supermovil YPF road race on the 25th October. It was a road race, and he swerved to avoid some goats on the road, rolling twice.

#624 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 23 September 2002 - 05:16

I have searched this thread and this name does not appear.

Donald Beaumont was killed racing Sir Jeremy Boles' 2-litre Connaught A-series in the Leinster Trophy race at the Wicklow circuit in Ireland on July 9, 1955.

It was the only fatality at the 8.34-mile circuit.

Source: The Wicklow Circuit 1950/1957.
Irish Car and Bike Illustrated 89 Yearbook.

#625 Rob29

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Posted 23 September 2002 - 08:52

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
I have searched this thread and this name does not appear.

Donald Beaumont was killed racing Sir Jeremy Boles' 2-litre Connaught A-series in the Leinster Trophy race at the Wicklow circuit in Ireland on July 9, 1955.

It was the only fatality at the 8.34-mile circuit.

Source: The Wicklow Circuit 1950/1957.
Irish Car and Bike Illustrated 89 Yearbook.

Sorry,Milan-looks like a miss spelling in your source (which I have never heard of-where can I get one!) Should be Don BeauMAN.

#626 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 23 September 2002 - 09:07

The caption to the photo of the Connaught has Beaumont while the article has the name as Beaumann!

I'll refrain from making any comments about the source of the source!

#627 stuartbrs

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Posted 24 September 2002 - 01:29

Wasnt there a fatality in Targa Tasmania in 1996?

#628 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 September 2002 - 22:30

This is a very strange one; has anyone else picked up on this thread from Reader's Comments?

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=48464

Should it be listed on this thread?

#629 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 26 September 2002 - 14:31

Doubtful in my view, if he never raced before, and beeing just wealthy amateur doing a test...

#630 Darren Galpin

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Posted 10 October 2002 - 12:03

RCA/RE/MAX Series driver, ERIC MARTIN/No.2 Hixson Construction Chevrolet was killed early Wednesday afternoon at Lowes Motor Speedway during ARCA practice. Martin, 33, was involved in a two-car crash in Turn Four. He had spun and crashed backwards into the wall, stalling on course. He reportedly had radioed into his crew that he was all right.

Although two drivers, RON HORNADAY/No.54 National Guard Chevrolet and SHELBY HOWARD/No.64 Mac Truck's Dodge, avoided the stalled car, DEBRA RENSHAW/No.75 Bob Schact Motorsports Ford didn't, and slammed into the drivers' side door. Martin died of massive international injuries. His body is reportedly on its way to the State Medical Examiner's Office in Charlotte after a coroner's evaluation. ARCA impounded the car.

Renshaw, of Bowling Green, Kentucky, is in fair condition at Carolinas Medical Center-University. She underwent a CT scan and is scheduled for ankle surgery Thursday morning.

Both drivers were wearing the HANS device.

ARCA mandated restraints after the death just over a year ago at Lowes Motor Speedway of ARCA driver, 1996 ARCA Rookie Champion, BLAISE ALEXANDER. He died of a basilar skull fracture.

Although the car was immediately covered with a tarp, the wreckage was still visible while being towed away. Both AP and RPM 2Night felt compelled to display the image, which one observer said looked worse than the wreckage of GEOFFREY BODINE's car after his horrific crash at Daytona.

ARCA's rule on spotters is that they are required in all sessions, either stationed on the team hauler roof or in a spotter stand above the press box, with two-way communication between driver and spotter. Renshaw's spotter was team owner, BOB SCHACT, who was on the hauler roof.

Reportedly, BILL VENTURINI was nearby on his hauler roof, spotting for his son, BILLY VENTURINI/25 Bass Pro Shops Chevrolet. He said "From where we were standing, you couldn't see that one section (where Martin's car was) of the race track."

NASCAR doesn't require spotters for Practice session, but most teams use them for all track sessions

Out of respect for the family, the ARCA family of drivers canceled all remaining track activities Wednesday. The field for the Thursday night season's finale, the EasyCare Vehicle Service Contracts 150 race, will be set based on Owner Points. Three-time ARCA Champion, FRANK KIMMEL/No.46 Advance Auto Parts Ford, is on the pole.

It would appear from the official ARCA starting grid that Hornaday will race a Chevrolet with Renshaw's number for Bob Schact Motorsports.

Renshaw, 25, came from the Late Model Series and is 29th in the standings, after five of 21 races.

Martin has been racing ARCA since 2001 and has had 40 starts. This season, he raced 18 of the 21 races, not competing at Daytona or Talladega. He was 20th in the standings, and finished sixteenth last season.

Martin, of Hickson, Tennessee, is survived by his wife, TAMMY, who is a Lt. J. G. in the Navy, stationed in Florida on the USS Gettysburg. Their two children are with grandparents.

#631 Jim Thurman

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Posted 13 October 2002 - 08:57

Sadly, I ran across another while doing a project for another TNF member...

Stuart Dane died when his F3 car went under the turn 9 guard rail at the opening round of the 1963 SCCA/Pacific Coast Championship at Riverside International Raceway. No date given, just 1963.

On a side note, Eric Martin's fatality has to rank as one of the most unecessary in a long time. His stalled car, after rather insignifigant wall contact and a few spins, sat motionless on the track for anywhere from 9 to 18 seconds before being hit at full speed. A combination of the spotter having a blind spot and drivers not paying enough attention to the yellow. As my brother said "Too much reliance on the spotter".

NASCAR has reportedly already changed a rule requiring spotters to be on the roof instead of in the infield atop haulers and ARCA is discussing doing the same.

Jim Thurman

#632 Udo K.

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Posted 13 October 2002 - 09:40

As far as I know Joe Eckhoff's fatal accident is not yet mentioned in this thread.
He died at the wheel of his Cooper-Climax T51 on July 23th 1961 in the Governor's Trophy Race at Lorenco Marques, while trying to take Syd van de Vyver for the lead.
(Thanks Hieronymus for the "Classic Car Africa" photocopies which contain so many valuable informations for me!).

#633 Criceto

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Posted 18 October 2002 - 03:41

Yet another one, I'm afraid. From Motor Magazine, February 9 1955, comes a mention of the South Pacific Championship race at Orange, New South Wales.

One Ian Fountain, a 25-year old Australian driver, was killed in his Peugeot Special when he went off the road, and found himself forced to try to avoid spectators standing in a prohibited area. Sad to say, he not only lost his life, but a spectator died, and another 7 were hurt.

Date of the race was January 31 1955.

#634 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 October 2002 - 04:04

This is a total surprise to me Tim...

Ian Mountain (yes, you've read an erroneous report there... the name was Mountain) should have been included here long ago.

As for the matter of dodging spectators, I doubt that very much.

I have recently done a story on the car involved...

Posted Image

The woman in the hat beside the car is the bride of the driver, this photo being taken at the Australian Grand Prix at Southport in late 1954... it was their honeymoon...

It used a supercharged Peugeot 203 engine, was built by Mountain himself and was very advanced for a special of its day.

In the course of discussing it with many people, I was told of a discussion one night between a whole bunch of Historic racers who all told their story of what they saw that day... so many of them had been at the Gnoo Blas circuit at Orange and it all sort of gelled, apparently.

One told of him being dangerously fast on the way to the circuit, towing the car behind his 203 over crests on the wrong side of the road, ploughing into the dirt edges and apparently totally unaware of any risks. Others told the details of the crash... and there was nothing about spectators causing it... John Cummins told how he got someone to help him with Mountain, who was barely alive and had to contend with this joker's fear of the car catching fire.

Then Cummins told how he was the one who drove the 203 back to Melbourne with the wreck on the trailer.

I think if spectators had had to be avoided, one of these people would have known. It happened on a fast bend that was notoriously tricky and frequently covered in gravel thrown up by wheels dropped over the edge.

Here's the wreck, by the way...

Posted Image

#635 David McKinney

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Posted 18 October 2002 - 15:17

The report in Australian Motor Sports (February 1955) suggests the accident was caused by Mountain going off-line to avoid stones thrown up by Curly Brydon's MG, which he was following. It makes no suggestion that the dead spectator (James Young) nor any of the seven injured had contributed, though the suggestion is made elsewhere in the same issue that they were in positions they shouldn't have been.

#636 Criceto

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Posted 18 October 2002 - 16:06

Thanks for the input, guys. I take back the inference as to the spectator involvement. The Motor magazine reference is only a tiny paragraph in the sports news pages, so it scarcely fills in the pertinent details like a discussion amongst firsthand witnesses would.

Motor makes no mention of Brydon, but I do see from my database that the name Mountain does show up at Bathurst in 1951 and 1952 (thank you John Medley) so I'll adjust that record immediately. Thanks, Ray.

#637 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 October 2002 - 21:24

Originally posted by Criceto
.....I do see from my database that the name Mountain does show up at Bathurst in 1951 and 1952 (thank you John Medley) so I'll adjust that record immediately. Thanks, Ray.


The irony is that John Medley is quite likely to be reading this...

And not posting. What a shame!

#638 Barry Lake

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Posted 19 October 2002 - 04:34

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
Sadly, I ran across another while doing a project for another TNF member...

Stuart Dane died when his F3 car went under the turn 9 guard rail at the opening round of the 1963 SCCA/Pacific Coast Championship at Riverside International Raceway. No date given, just 1963.


I already had this one, from Don Capps, probably in this thread... somewhere.

3 February 1963.

#639 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 19 October 2002 - 22:41

A quick check of the BB indicates that this thread does not record the fatal accident of Howard "Howdy"Wilcox at Altoona (Pa.) Speedway in 1923. I do not have the exact date of his fatal race but believe it was in September. Altoona was a 1.25 mile board track. Wilcox's Duesenberg blew a tire percipitating the fatal accident.

Wilcox won the Indianapolis 500 in 1919 in a Peugeot (at an average speed of 88.05 mph) and raced in each of the first 11 Indy 500's between 1911 and 1923 (no race was held in the war years of 1917 and 1918). Wilcox was also the AAA National Champion in 1919. In his last Indy 500 in 1923 Wilcox took over Tommy Milton's Miller as a relief driver (his own car had failed) and covered 115 miles in the winning car while Milton's blistered hands were being taped up.

This comes to mind because of the death on September 30 of this year of his son of the same name, age 82. The younger Howard Wilcox had a distinguished career in motor sport promotion serving on the board of USAC for many years and having founded the Indy 500 parade and the Little 500 bicycle race at Indiana University in Bloomington.

Recalling all this makes me feel somewhat melancholy as I reflect on how little is remembered of the giants of this earlier era.

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#640 LittleChris

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Posted 19 October 2002 - 23:02

From this weeks Autosport, BMW driver Mark Williams ( 1963 - 2002 ) died last Sunday (13th Oct )during practice for the Kumho series. at Thruxton, He apparantly lost control of his car in the wet on the run up Woodham Hill and hit a marshals post . He was declared dead at the site of the accident. :(

#641 Criceto

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Posted 19 October 2002 - 23:35

Minor detail additions to both the above posts.

Howdy Wilcox' accident took place on September 4th 1923.

Mark Williams' BMW was an M3 Coupe - which I think makes it an E36, although my BMW nomenclature is not what it might be.

#642 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 October 2002 - 04:47

Originally posted by Barry Lake


I already had this one, from Don Capps, probably in this thread... somewhere.

3 February 1963.


Oops...sorry about that. Yes, doing a search Don had already posted that.

At least I've got a good reason for missing it...it was posted a few months before I joined TNF.

Good that Don turned up a date, it was missing from the magazine account I ran across.


Jim Thurman

#643 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 October 2002 - 04:50

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
On a side note, Eric Martin's fatality has to rank as one of the most unecessary in a long time. His stalled car, after rather insignifigant wall contact and a few spins, sat motionless on the track for anywhere from 9 to 18 seconds before being hit at full speed. A combination of the spotter having a blind spot and drivers not paying enough attention to the yellow. As my brother said "Too much reliance on the spotter".

NASCAR has reportedly already changed a rule requiring spotters to be on the roof instead of in the infield atop haulers and ARCA is discussing doing the same.


Upon seeing footage from much earlier and a different angle, Martin did make signifigant wall contact exiting turn 4 and spun through the quad oval, where his car came to rest. The footage does show 9 seconds from the time his car came to a stop until it was literally driven into at full speed. Still a combination of the spotter's blind spot and simply not paying enough attention to the yellow light as the cause.


Jim Thurman

#644 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 27 October 2002 - 18:56

Secretary of the MG Car Club, 29-year old John Wratten was killed on April 10, 1971 when he rolled his P-type MG at Calder, Australia.

Source: Racing Car News, June 1971.

#645 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 29 October 2002 - 22:55

Sid Bufkin died in a Sprint Car crash at Fort Wayne (Indiana) Speedway the weekend of October 17-19, 1952. The report does not cite the exact day. Bufkin had been 1952 Central State Racing Association Gold Crown Champion for 1952. Bufkin and Bobby King tangled in Turn one of the first lap of the feature race. Bufkin's car hit the outside retaining wall and after a series of violent flips landed upside down. Bufkin was pronounced dead on arrival at a local hospital.
Source: NSSN

#646 Buford

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Posted 29 October 2002 - 23:09

Nolan White - Land Speed record Attempt 10/22/02

http://www.landracing.com/tribute.htm

#647 FEV

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Posted 30 October 2002 - 07:48

At the 1992 "Ferrari Days" meeting of of Spa (June 6-7), the British Rover Cup was also part of the schedule. A driver was killed during the race of this series when his car was hit at high speed by the one of another driver, on the way to Les Combes (source : Auto-Hebdo n°833, 11 juin 1992). Anybody as a name ?

#648 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 30 October 2002 - 08:00

The driver killed at Spa was Ian Taylor. He was involved in an incident with Martin Short and Ray Byford on the Kemmel straight.

The date was Sunday June 7, 1992.

#649 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 30 October 2002 - 08:09

Also in the same Autosport that recorded Ian Taylor's death is an obituary for Graig Hinton.

He was killed when his Mk2 Jaguar rolled at the Moroso Motorsports Park in Florida on May 30, 1992.

#650 FEV

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Posted 30 October 2002 - 08:24

:) Thanks Milan - that was fast ! Would he be the Ian Taylor seen in F3 in the early 70s ?