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Speed's ultimate price: the toll...


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#101 fines

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Posted 22 October 2000 - 10:21

To take this thread into the 3 digits, I have two more fatalities from Woodbridge board track:

Oct 27, 1929: Johnny Rohrer crashed through the guardrail and fell 35 feet deep

Jul 27, 1930: Bob Robinson was killed when following a driver who'd just been stung by a bee he was suddenly driven off the track as a result

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#102 jarama

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Posted 22 October 2000 - 13:10

Barry Boor,

I can confirm the deaths of Jean-Luc Salomon and Denis Dayan in th F3 race meeting at Rouen '70.

Denis had his crash at the Virage des Six Frères, tha same spot who saw the death of Jo Schlesser two years before, while Jean-Luc crashed at the Virage de la Scierie dying in the Grand Prix Medical Unit.

#103 Barry Lake

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Posted 22 October 2000 - 17:29

Do you have a date for that Rouen race Jarama?

#104 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 October 2000 - 17:31

I do, Barry. It was June 28th.

#105 Barry Lake

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Posted 22 October 2000 - 17:47

Barry
Thank you.
Barry

#106 jarama

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Posted 22 October 2000 - 21:25

To add a little more stuff, this was the support race of the GP de Rouen F2.

#107 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 October 2000 - 22:13

Rainer, sorry if I appear to be nit-picking, but a minor correction; you have a 1964 entry for someone named Tony Kegbourne. That should be Hegbourne.
Tony used to drive in a team called Normand Racing with a guy named Mike Beckwith. Pretty white and blue cars; Lotus 23 sports cars and F2's I think, probably Coopers.

#108 Barry Lake

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 07:07

BJB
That's not nit-picking. It's called "getting it right". I am surprised I hadn't picked that up; I remember the name well, now you've got it right. But we are still short of the exact date.

On a similar vein:

Rainer and Koen

You both have Art Bisch as having been killed on 4 July 1958.
I have it from another source as being 6 July 1958.

Now that I write it in this form, I realise that 4 July is a holiday in America, so that date is posibly correct. I had thought the 6th was more likely as that was a Sunday and the 4th was a Friday.
Both sources agree it happened during a race.

I wouldn't suggest altering your entry, but we should try to find a correct date for that Atlanta race.

I also just noticed that I have him listed elsewhere as "Art Birsch".

I will try to think of some way to check it all.

#109 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 07:40

Barry, are you aware that Peter Dale died about three months ago?

#110 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 09:22

Here are a few New Zealand drivers for the list.

George Lawton killed at the Roskilde Ring in Denmark in 1960. He was the joint winner, with Denny Hulme, of the 1959 Driver to Europe Award and showed great promise before losing his life in the Copenhagen Grand Prix, which was run as a F2 race that year. I haven’t been able to find the exact date but I know he finished fifth, behind Clark, Gurney, Bonnier and Graham Hill, in the Kentish 100 F2 race at Brands Hatch on the 27th of September.

Brian Faloon was killed at Pukekohe during the running of the 1972 New Zealand Grand Prix. The date was the 8th of January and he was driving a Rorstan-Porsche. He collided with Graeme Lawrence’s Lola T300 on the back straight of Pukekohe.

John Woolf and his co-driver Grant Whittaker were killed when their Peugeot 504 Coupe collided head-on with a marshal’s vehicle on the Chisum Trail Rally in Oklahoma. The accident occurred at the end of May 1982.

Brian Mabey and Gifford Tait were both killed while competing in races on Tahunanui Beach, which is at Nelson at the top of the South Island of New Zealand. Maybe’s accident happened on December 31, 1960. He was driving a self-built single-seater called a BCM (his initials). It was front –engined and powered by a 2240cc six-cylinder Vauxhall Velox motor, which drove through a Mabey-built combined diff/gearbox.
Giff Tait died on December 30, 1967 when his Chrysler Valiant rolled several times. He was thrown from the car and, I believe, was killed instantly. One theory for the crash suggested that the automatic transmission would have selected low gear when the rear brakes locked going into the corner. This meant that the wheels would still be virtually stopped after the brakes were released.

John Mansell died when his Cooper T51-Maserati slid into a telegraph pole during the Dunedin Road Race. The race was held in very wet conditions on February 3, 1962 and Mansell joined the race many laps after it had started. He completed about ten laps before losing control and crashing side on into the pole. The car broke in half and the driver was thrown into some trees. He suffered head injuries which caused his death about nine or ten days later.

Brent Hawes, aged 30, died when his Begg-Chevrolet sports car crashed on April 20, 1969 at Ruapuna circuit in Christchurch. Hawes had a fear of being burnt in a race crash so did not wear a safety harness. He was thrown from the car when it left the circuit at high speed after its brakes failed.

Glen Hawkins was another to die when the car he was driving had brake failure. He was driving his Holden Commodore at Pukekohe on May 2, 1999 when the brakes failed at the end of the back straight. He crashed at high speed into a tyre barrier.


#111 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 10:26

Milan, one missing from your list of Kiwis killed overseas is the luckless John Ward (of Gisborne), ejected through the windscreen of his Lotus Cortina at Catalina Park for the same reason as you mention for Hawes, he refused to wear a harness.
The date was August 18, 1968.

#112 Barry Lake

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:36

Ray
Peter Dale? I think he used to import cars from Europe and sell them through Australian Motor Sports in the 1950s. Is that who you mean?
I never had anything to do with him. Perhaps I should have, but I can't talk to everyone.

#113 Barry Lake

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:40

Ray
I can't vouch for the truth of this but, at the time Ward was killed, I was told by "someone who should know" that he had a sash-only belt (not a lap-only).
I thought it sounded strange at the time and said so. My informant (I can't remember who it was) said that, though it seemed weird, that is what he had.

#114 Barry Lake

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:54

Rainer
You might already have picked up this mistake yourself (I am working on a copy of your list, not from your web site).
You have (had) Ricardo Rodriguez as being killed at the Nurburgring, when of course it was Mexico City.
You also have the date as 2nd November whereas my list (and Koen's) have the date as 1st November 1962.

#115 Barry Lake

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:57

Rainer
I also just noticed you have "Riccardo" when his name was spelled Ricardo, with one "c".

#116 fines

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 15:10

Art Bisch died two days after the race at Atlanta, so July 6 is correct. He was unconscious after the accident and died after surgery to remove damaged parts of his brain! Well, that was neurology as of 1958, I guess! He was 31 years old.

#117 mikedeering

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 15:40

A few you may have missed from the UK scene - I haven't seen any lists so you may have them

Marcel Albers - British F3 for Alan Docking Racing - Silverstone in 1993???

Paul Warwick - British F3000 - Oulton Park in 1990

Also John Foulston (Brands Hatche Owner at the time) at Silverstone, testing a McLaren CanAm car I believe, 1987 or 88.

#118 fines

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 16:10

Marcel Albers died Apr 20, 1992 in Thruxton F3 race.

Paul Warwick died Jul 21, 1991 while leading Oulton Park F3000 race. Since that race was stopped after this accident and never restarted he was posthumously declared the winner.

Hitoshi Ogawa died May 24, 1992 in Suzuka F3000 race.

#119 rainern

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 18:23

Barry....
i don´t know what list you talk about....it is spelled Ricardo on my list....and btw I never had Aussie Tony Alcock listed either....:)

Some confusion seems to exist...

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#120 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 20:02

Ray
I didn't put John Ward on the list as I thought you had already added his name.

A few more for the list.

Bert Hawthorne was killed in the Jim Clark Memorial Trophy Race at Hockenheim on April 16, 1972. He was driving the F2 Tui-Hart BDA.

Keith McFadzien died at Teretonga on December 8,1968 when his Begg 1500, or Begg Formula Ford as I have seen it referred to, crashed during a practice run.

Les Moore, twice winner of the Lady Wigram Trophy driving what was reputed to be Nuvolari's 1935 German GP winning Alfa Romeo P3 Type B and father of three-times World Speedway Champion Ronnie Moore, died when he crashed a locally-built single-seater called the RA-Vanguard. I haven't been able to confirm the date or location. I have two dates 1962 and October 1960 and two locations; Timaru and near Timaru.

I am still working on two others. A Formula Vee driver named Alexander Elvey(?) who died at Bay Park and a rally driver named Batt who drowned when his car went into a water reservoir somewhere in the South Island.



#121 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 20:23

Of those you mention, Milan, surely Falloon's was the most horrifying... crashing into a speeding train going past the circuit?

#122 Barry Boor

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Posted 23 October 2000 - 21:14

Wasn't Marcel Albers' accident at Thruxton ?

I witnessed Paul Warwick's crash first hand. The car hit the bank about 5 metres to my right. Dreadful. Quite the worst thing I have ever seen in 43 years of watching racing cars.

#123 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 24 October 2000 - 09:54

Ray
As I remember the accident it was Lawrence's Lola that hit the train. Faloon's car hit an earth bank.

Also the train would not have been speeding. In those days there were no advertising hoardings along the back straight at Pukekohe and the train drivers on the main trunk line between Auckland and Wellington always used to slow right down so they could watch the action on the adjacent track. And I mean really slow down. They would crawl the length of the straight before continuing their journey.

#124 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 October 2000 - 10:58

Right on all counts, Milan... Faloon moved over for the leader, failing to see Lawrence coming behind, Lawrence hit and started cartwheeling, bits of his car flying into the train that was pulling in to take spectators home. Faloon's strange car, the Rorstan Porsche, went straight ahead, into the earth bank, then went over the top, inflicting injuries so serious he died about an hour later. Strange how recollections can be so wrong... and I know I've spoken to Lawrence about the crash, too.

#125 Barry Lake

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Posted 24 October 2000 - 14:44

Do we have a date for that Faloon/Lawrence crash?

#126 Boniver

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Posted 24 October 2000 - 18:37

Jerry Titus 5 aug 1970 Milwaukee USA
After his Pontiac Firebird hit a bridge on the Elkhart Lake Circuit in practice of 18 july

Chris Williams GB 26 03 69
Testing a Merlyn F2 at Silverstone

John Woolfe GB 26 O7 69
Lost controle at maison Blanche on first lap with Porsch

Bill Ivy GB 26 07 69
In practive at the Sachsenring – Jawa motor



#127 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 24 October 2000 - 19:09

The Faloon/Lawrence crash happened during the NZ Grand Prix on January 8, 1972.

#128 Boniver

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Posted 24 October 2000 - 20:47

George Lawton with Cooper 45 – Team New Zealand IGP
Crashed ; was thrown out of the car and killed.
11.09.60
First Danish Grand Prix at Roskildering (F2)



#129 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 03:25

A correction to the details of Bert Hawthorne’s death.

He actually died on Friday during practice for the Jim Clark Trophy Race. That would make the correct date April 14, 1972.

I’ve dug out the Motoring News report on the race written by Alan Henry and it adds more info. Hawthorne was circulating in tandem with Bernd Terbeck and both went missing at the same time.
An agitated Niki Lauda called into the pits two laps later to ask why nothing was apparently being done about a car on fire out on the circuit. It was only then that a fire tender and ambulance were sent to the scene.
Henry’s explanation of the accident was that Hawthorne’s Tui slowed leaving the fast chicane on the outward leg and Terbeck could not avoid hitting him. Hawthorne was pitched into the barriers at tremendous speed and the nose of the Tui jammed between the two rails and slid along for some distance, pulling out the securing uprights, before coming to rest on fire.
He concludes that though the car burnt slowly for quite a long time it was subsequently confirmed that poor Hawthorne succumbed immediately to serious head injuries.


#130 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 04:06

re the earlier post on John Foulston - he was killed testing his newly acquired McLaren/Offy Indy car (not a Can Am car) - also I recall it happening at Oulton Park not Silverstone - I may be wrong on the circuit but I am certain it was an ex-Indy car - thinking about it now I seem to recall that it was an ex-Indy 500 winner -possibly Al Unser's 1970 car? - also, Ray mentions Lodovico Scarfiotti dying at a hillclimb in Germany - this may be correct but my strong recollection is that it was in Switzerland - what I do recall very clearly though was being at Spa that day as the news made it around the paddock - a tragic loss that was all the more keenly felt following the loss of Clark, Spence, and Schlesser the three preceding months - I didn't know Scarfiotti well - only well enough to remember him as a consumate gentleman (and a brilliant driver) - I saw him win for Ferrari at Monza in the '66 Italian GP but best remember having dinner with him (and Jim Clark and Jochen Rindt) at Rockingham, N.C. the November '67 weekend they competed in a NASCAR race at that circuit. But that's another story and I have gotten rather far afield here. It is good, though, to remember the individuality and humanity of these people. I have no doubt that the current crop are a great bunch of guys too. I just wouldn't know.

#131 Barry Lake

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 07:28

My records (from more than one source) say that Scarfiotti was killed at Rossfeld Hillclimb in Germany.

(They could all have copied from the same incorrect source, of course...)

There always has been confusion over whether is first name was Ludovico or Lodovico. Does anyone know the correct version?

Also, was he related to the man of the same name who was one of the original partners in FIAT, with Agnelli?

#132 Barry Lake

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 12:47

Boniver
Koen Piepers has the date for John Woolfe's death as 15 June 1969.
Can you check this?

#133 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 13:09

I meant to mention this before... John Woolfe died at Le Mans in a Porsche 917, the first victim of that car, which was expected to bring harm?

#134 jmcgavin

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 13:21

I believe that he actually crashed on the first lap at Maison Blanche. From memory he was the first privateer with a 917. This may be wrong but i believe he insisted on having one although they were renowned for being fast but very tricky. Derek Bell mentions 917s were pretty frightening to drive, as you were going very quickly with your feet well ahead of the axle line. in fact Le Mans in the late 60s early 70s was widely judged to be more dangerous than most other racing at the time, which must be saying something

#135 Barry Lake

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 14:06

Rainer
I am sorry, I only just now saw your post on the previous page.
You are right, I have absorbed information from your list and from Koen's into mine and I have been confusing them.
In future, when I find errors, I will just note them here without trying to suggest whose list has the error.
But we should try to get all the lists right, because we never know where the information might go - and we don't want to be responsible for distorting history, do we?

#136 fines

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 16:21

If Foulston's car was an ex-Indy winner then there are only three possibilities:

1. McLaren M16B (Mark Donohue in 1972)
2. McLaren M16C/D (Johnny Rutherford in 1974)
3. McLaren M16E (Rutherford in 1976)

Ludovico (not Lodovico, I've seen a pic with his name on the overall) Scarfiotti died at the "Internationaler Alpen-Bergpreis Berchtesgaden" at the Roßfeld-Höhenring-Straße close to Berchtesgaden in Bavaria, Germany. It was the second practice run on June 8 in 1968, and his teammate Rolf Stommelen had just survived a horrific accident at km 3.2 of the 5.76 km hillclimb. Scarfiotti had started his run a minute after Stommelen's and left the road at km 2.4, tumbling down the hill and being thrown out of his Porsche which came to a rest 15 or 50 feet (depending on which report you do believe) below road level. The Italian tumbled down a further 120 (?) feet and officially died on the way to the hospital though the general consensus was that he died on impact.

#137 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 25 October 2000 - 23:58

I did my post late the other night without benefit of any archival materials - just from memory. My thanks to Barry Lake and Michael Ferner for confirming that Scarfiotti's fatal hill climb was in Germany. Somehow or other Switzerland had become lodged in my memory bank. As for Ludovico over Lodovico I too have seen it spelled both ways. But Michael if you saw it on his uniform that would seem to answer the question and is plenty good enough for me. As to the identity of John Foulston's car I am going to do a little digging. It may have been a Lola rather than a McLaren. I only said McLaren because the original post postulated that it may have been a McLaren CanAm car. What I am certain of is that it was an ex-Indy car and that the power plant was an Offenhauser. What I'm less certain about is the year although for some reason I keep thinking 1970 (watch out though - I remembered Switzerland for Germany as we have seen). So it may very well have been a Lola. What does come to mind is that Foulston must have been a very brave guy as those cars of that era were monsters and a handful even in the hands of the aces of the day. Finally, can anyone confirm or refute my recollection that it happened at Oulton Park rather than Silverstone? The reason I think it was Oulton is that it was one of the circuits he owned and Silverstone was obviously not one of his. But that in itself proves nothing.

#138 Barry Lake

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 04:51

Michael Ferner (fines) mentions here that Hitoshi Ogawa died May 24, 1992 in Suzuka F3000 race.

I have (from Rainer or Koen - sorry, I have your lists mixed up) that he was killed at Monza on that date in a Toyota in a WSC race.

It shouldn't be difficult to check, but I have pressing deadlines at the moment...


#139 William Dale Jr

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 06:33

Just went to the Brands Hatch Leisure Group site and found this:

1987
John Foulston tragically killed while testing his Maclaren M23 at Silverstone.


Cut and pasted from the site, so 'Maclaren' wasn't my spelling mistake.

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#140 tombe

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 17:59

John Foulston was killed at Club corner, Silverstone on Sep.29, 1987 testing his McLaren M15 Offy of 1970 vintage.

Tom

#141 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 20:06

Thanks Tom.

#142 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 20:41

Funny, following this along, I was going to suggest that the website might be a lightweight approach, that any error was more likely in that...
Someone will have to email them to get it fixed.

#143 rainern

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 21:52

No problem....:)

Yes what we all want is that the history will be as accurate as possible.

And Ogawa died at Monza in a Toyota TS010 sportscar.

Rainer

PS
Something completely different
A compilation of the Tucker story can be found at :
http://w1.859.telia....5900964/F1pics/
DS

#144 Barry Lake

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Posted 27 October 2000 - 14:14

From a report on the death of NASCAR truck racer Tony Roper:

"Roper is the second driver killed in the truck series, the first being John Nemechek, brother of Winston Cup star Joe, who was killed at Homestead-Miami in 1997."

#145 Don Capps

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Posted 29 October 2000 - 04:06

While doing some work on open-wheeled racing in America, I recalled that the F.R.A. had a BB in SCG for years. While skimming through some issues there was the report from the Los Angeles Chapter on the death of member Russ Martin at the Labor Day weekend event held at Santa Barbara. Martin was killed when his Stanguellini FJ got involved in a crash – a “pile-up” – soon after the start of the race.

This information is from “Formula Racing Association Bulletin Board,” Sports Car Graphic, December 1962, Volume 2 Number 8, page 76.


#146 fines

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Posted 29 October 2000 - 10:40

Rainer, that's wrong!!!

Ogawa died at Suzuka, I've checked it in a contemporary magazine. The only race at Monza that weekend was for Historic Touring Cars, Sports Cars ran at Monza four weeks earlier and that race was actually won by Ogawa!

After finishing fifth at the next Sports Car race at Silverstone on May 10 Ogawa then took over Rickard Rydell's Lola in the Cerumo team for this race. Approaching Turn 1 on lap 27 he clipped a rear wheel of Andrew Gilbert-Scott's Lola and took off over the run-off area into a hoarding. The car was completely destroyed and Ogawa died on the way to the hospital from his severe head and leg injuries. Several photographers and a camera man were also injured.

The reason why I grouped this with the Warwick and Albers tragedies is because from memory these were the only recent accidents where deceased drivers still classified as finishers in a race, Ogawa e.g. still taking two championships points after the race was stopped and not restarted!

#147 rainern

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Posted 29 October 2000 - 12:12

Yes you are right of course Michael....
I didn´t even check the magazines from the period, i was so sure of the fact...

Seems that one single picture from a magazine locked my memory...

It was in fact a tribute-picture to Ogawa seen at Monza or the following race...
I could check it in the Endurance Racing 1982-91 of course but I have loads of Autosports from the period so I should have double-checked.

I am sorry to all involved, forgive me for this blatant mistake...

I will do a better job next time out...and I will now have a big chunk of that humble pie....

Rainer

#148 Barry Lake

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Posted 29 October 2000 - 13:02

Don't feel bad Rainer. We all make mistakes - especially when doing long, involved lists!
That is why it pays to have someone else check your work - or check your own at a much later date.
Checking your own work immediately after you wrote it, you often don't recognise slips like this.
Keep up the good work.

#149 Barry Lake

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Posted 29 October 2000 - 13:05

I imagine all would have seen this in the Atlas F1 News section - but, just for the record:

Driver Killed During Ferrari Celebrations

Saturday October 28th, 2000

One driver was killed and another injured today, when the two crashed during the Ferrari Event at Mugello, marking the Italian team's Championship double in Formula One.

Ferrari said Ulricch Plattenhardt, 66, from Germany, died at the medical center of the Mugello track, after competed in a special Ferrari Challenge race. He was unable to avoid the car of Swiss driver Daniel Kuenzli, which had crashed into a tyre barrier and spun back on the track.

Kuenzli, 51, had minor head injuries and a bruised shoulder.

#150 Flicker

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Posted 29 October 2000 - 13:37

Yes, its very sad...
But who was this 66-year-old german Ulrich Plattenhardt?
It seems that he lost his car at the staight and... was hit by another Ferrari...