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Speed's ultimate price: the toll...


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#151 Indy500

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Posted 29 October 2000 - 22:37

I have found another name for the list, but i have doubts with it.

In the biography of Mr. Jelinek there's a picture of Count Zborowski at the start of the Nice-La Turbie race in 1903.

The text to the picture says, that he found his dead at the same spot as Wilhelm Bauer did.

Can anyone tell me more about this ?

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#152 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 30 October 2000 - 05:31

It is with great respect and in his memory that I add:

Rene Spangler - Swiss - April 26, 1976 - at Trier, Germany - AvD/ISCC race - Lola 342 Formula Ford

#153 Barry Lake

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 14:32

Over on the Chris Amon thread, Barry Boor asks:

"Has anyone listed Alborghetti in the fatal accidents list? The odd thing is, Chris Nixon devotes an entire chapter to the 1955 Pau Grand Prix in his book 'Rivals', but does not mention the Alborghetti crash."

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, Mario Alborghetti was driving a Scuderia Volpini Maserati 4CLT/48 and it was Pau in France, 11 April 1955.

#154 Barry Lake

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 14:40

Koen Piepers asked about Wilhelm Bauer.
Koen, he definitely was killed at La Turbie hillclimb and I think it could well have been the same corner as Zborowski. It apparently was a notoriously dangerous corner.

Bauer is supposed to have been the first person to have been killed in a hillclimb. It was 30th March 1900 and he was driving a Daimler (as in Gottlieb Daimler, before the Mercedes name was created for Daimler's cars).

By sheer coincidence, I was reading Daimler Days by Lord Montagu and David Burgess-Wise a couple of days ago. There is mention there of Bauer, who was associated with Daimler, about 10 years before his death. He was involved in an escapade with Daimler, promoting one of Daimler's internal combustion engine powered boats by "gate crashing" a demonstration to the Kaiser by someone with a steam boat.

#155 Barry Lake

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 14:58

Now that this thread once more is back up where everyone can see it, please allow me to ask a question to which there possibly is no answer.

In 1982 I was in Naples as a guest of Alfa Romeo Australia, visiting the Alfasud factory.

At one point we were travelling through Naples by coach and the then boss of AR Australia, Ruggero Rotondo (known as "Round Reg" to the Alfa club here, and who was born and raised in Naples) suddenly leapt to his feet.

"This is the old GP di Napoli race circuit!" he said, excitedly, and tried to persuade the coach driver to do a lap. The driver would not, for we were running late for our next appointment and he said he would lose his job.

But we did travel part of the lap, on our planned route. Ruggero, a short while later, insisted the coach came to a halt. He leapt out and said, "Here! Right here at this spot, when I was a young boy, I saw a racing driver crash and he was killed. He was lying on the footpath right here. I remember it like it was yesterday. His name was Borghese and he was a hero in Naples. Everyone was so sad."

I clearly remember the name Borghese because it was the same as the Prince who drove in the Paris-Peking Race in 1907.
I asked Ruggero what year it might have been and he said, around 1955. I said I had never heard of a Borghese of that era.

Since then I have searched and searched and can find no record of any driver of that name, let alone the death at Naples of a driver named Borghese - or anything close to that.

Does any one have any clues that might help solve this mystery?

I see Ruggero occasionally still, although he is no longer in the car business. I am sure he would like to know, also.

#156 Don Capps

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 16:52

Last night I looked at this thread and the hard work that has gone into it. I sat down and sketched out a format for a database that would allow all this info to be captured and updated or corrected as needed.

I haven't the time right now to do it, but using MS Access it shouldn't be too difficult. Here are the fields I decided on:

Last (name)
First (name)
Date (in YYYY.MM.DD format -- doing it this way greatly eases inquiries using the date)
Venue
Event
Series
Circumstances



#157 Indy500

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 16:53

Hmmm strange,

I know only one Borghese.. that was indeed the Prince that won the Paris-Peking race (raid).

An it couldn't be him that crashed in 1955. He would have quite an age at that time.

That seems to be a difficult one to shed a light on i guess


#158 Don Capps

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 18:03

Over on the Chris Amon thread, Barry Boor asks:

"Has anyone listed Alborghetti in the fatal accidents list? The odd thing is, Chris Nixon devotes an entire chapter to the 1955 Pau Grand Prix in his book 'Rivals', but does not mention the Alborghetti crash."

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, Mario Alborghetti was driving a Scuderia Volpini Maserati 4CLT/48 and it was Pau in France, 11 April 1955.


Barry,

I remember the crash, but I didn't see it. We watched most of the race from the casino area, but did move about a bit. I probably didn't realize it was fatal until probably that evening or the next day. I did see the aftermath of the Mantovani crash at Torino which is why every time I see the photo taken of the car, I cringe.

I was an enthusiastic 8-year old so much of the subtleties of the events were lost on me at the time -- and it WAS a long time ago! I got smarter as the season progressed and was probably unbearable during the 1956 season (we were in the USA for most of 1957) and from 1958 onward.

The first GP pilote I spoke to was Ascari at Torino and I was crushed when he died in May. And the death of Bill Vukovich just literally days later did not sit well either. And then on top of that, I was at Le Mans in 1955!! We were walking towards the Indianapolis/Maison Blanc area -- away from the grandstands, when The Accident happened. One person from our party stayed behind and the accident was just to his left (where we had been). He said it was bad as anything he ever saw on the Eastern Front during the war (our inside joke was that all our friends -- they all worked for my Dad -- fought on the Eastern Front, which all but one did -- he was captured in North Africa at the ripe old age of 18 in 1943 and sent to a POW camp in South Carolina). Anyway, that was how it seemed to go during the first part of my first full season racing in Europe. I was an 'old pro' by then having been to my first race in 1949...of which I recall nothing nor the details of any of the others until about 1952 or so when a friend of Dads's drove a blue Ford (just like ours!) in stock cars races in the Virgina area. I got to sit in it a lot and that is probably what really hooked me.

#159 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 18:57

Thanks for that one, Don.
A couple of matters arising; surely Alborghetti wasn't driving a Maserati? I thought it was a Volpini. There is an excellent photo of car and driver taken at Pau and the car is like no 4CLT I've ever seen.
If I knew how to post images, I'd stick it in, but alas....

I know it could be a whole new thread, but it gives me the wobblies when I think of how near Don was to THE accident. It makes me think about accidents I have not witnessed despite being at the event; Moss at Goodwood; Hawkins in the harbour at Monaco.

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#160 Don Capps

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 19:43

Barry, You don't even want to imagine what it was like when we got home and my Mom got started!!! We managed to get in the Dutch race the following weekend -- all the arrangements were already made, but she was not a very happy camper after that. While she never was very (well... that might be an understatement) vocal about my going to races I also never failed to know her opinion about it either. However, I never went back to another Le Mans race and we were around for the 1956, 1958 - 1960 editions.

Oh, I did see the Mille Miglia in 1955 as well. we watched them head south and then crossed over to watch them go north. We had a good view both times of at least a few kms of the road to watch the cars zip on by. It was a huge party as I remember. I assume I saw Moss, but I honestly couldn't say now yea or nay. I do remember sleeping on the journey from east to west and being tired & sleepy during the latter part of the race. We sat on the hillsides and watched the race with all the locals, who were great. Ditto 1956, but I think the weather was lousy that year and played havoc on our watching the race. I don't recall all that much since I probably found playing with the other kids a higher priority.

Going to the races at the Nurburgring was pretty much the same most of the time. They were like big parties. The 1000km races were more fun since the cars droned around forever and you had plenty of chances to see them.

It is funny how you can do to a race and be clueless about a fatal or big accident until later -- I was at Watkins Glen in 1974 and didn't know that the Koinnig accident was fatal until much later after the on the way home. We knew he was missing, but that was all.

In fact, the greatest danger I was ever in at a track was during a practice & qualifying session at the Hartsville (SC) track -- a half mile oval -- in the mid-60's when a driver hit the wall and the battery (!) flew out of the car and hit the press box about a meter from where I was sitting -- and I never saw it until it hit, WHAM! Definitely got my attention!

#161 MoMurray

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 23:04

Peter O'Reilly died at Ratra corner in the Pheonix Park in September (?) 1978 in a formula ford race. I believe he was driving a Crossle and went into the wall backwards. I was 14 years old and working as a lap charter for the announcer Robin Rhodes who was very experienced in the sport. In the announcers tower we were made aware of the fatality but did not announce it until the end of the meeting. I vividly remember Rhodes saying "they all know the risks when the get into the cars". As an impressionable child at the time, this response and treatment of the fatality has stayed with me since. Maybe that explains my position on the danger discussed in the time travel thread. Maybe I need therapy. Maybe I shouldn't play with sharp objects.

#162 Don Capps

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 03:07

In my latest research, I found another death I was unaware of one that I didn't realize wasn't listed:

Pat Pigott: October 1962, Riverside, Lotus 23 crashed at Turn 9 about 10 minutes prior to end of the race; heavily damaged, it took until 20 minutes after the checkered flag fell to free him, by which time he was in bad shape; died at March AFB 2 1/2 hours later -- I remembered this one since it was reported at the time.

Stuart Dane: 3 February 1963, Riverdside, Formula III car crashed at Turn 9, died at the track; during Pacific Coast Championship meeting of the CSCC/ 'Cal Club'; was active in the FRA (Formula Racing Association) -- new one to me

#163 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 09:53

I've just found this in the July 1956 edition of Road and Track.

Ernie McAfee was killed when his Ferrari 4.4 Sports struck a tree during the running of the Del Monte Trophy at Pebble Beach.

There was a Jack McAfee driving in the race - were they related? He continued to race after the accident and finished third behind Carroll Shelby and Phil Hill.

#164 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 10:09

And another from Motor Sport July 1960

Chris Threlfall was killed during the Formula Junior race at Aix-Le-Bains when his Elva-DKW ran into the wreckage of a footbridge that had collapsed across the circuit. The date was May 22, 1960.

#165 Barry Lake

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 11:12

BJB
It is intersting that you should bring up the fact that Alborghetti was in a Volpini. I always remembered it as such. His death was reported in a Sydney newspaper at the time - not because he was famous, of course, but because they had a poor quality radio photo of the car crashing into the straw bales (or bale-padded wall, perhaps).
They reported it as a Volpini and I feel confident that I have read of it since as being that.
But I looked up the race in Sheldon's Grand Prix and Voiturette Racing and they had it listed as a Volpini entered Maserati - as I listed here.
Perhaps it was a Volpini modified Maserati? Or a Volpini made from Maserati bits?

#166 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 13:02

Barry.
I am on the point of mastering this image-posting business. When I do, you will see that the Volpini was nothing like any Maserati ever designed. It really was a genuine 'special'.

#167 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 13:07

Right, here we go. If this works I'll be staggered:
Posted Image
Don, if the image does not work, obviously there is no sense in posting the message.
If this has gone up o.k. the picture shows Mario Alborghetti at Pau and must have been taken just a few minutes before the tragic crash.

#168 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 13:10

I suppose I should have known. RATS. Can anybody right click on the non-loaded image and tell me what is wrong with the URL address?

#169 fines

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 13:21

From my memory, the Volpini (or Arzani-Volpini) was a rebuilt of one of the two Milano cars from 1950. These were built by the Scuderia Milano (Ruggeri Bros.) to replace two original San Remo Maseratis which ran with engines modified by Mario Speluzzi. Apparently this engine was modified further still to serve in 1955. That makes for a very small input of Maserati in the car...[p][Edited by fines on 11-04-2000]

#170 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 13:32

This is embarrassing ! (So is not being sure about the spelling of embarrassing!)

One more try

http://www.bboor.fre.../Website/photos

#171 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 13:36

That's it ! I'm going out !

#172 Roger Clark

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 15:31

Barry B,

i can't see your website at all. I remeber that when I first loaded pictures onto mine, it was two days before the world outside could see it. My ISP told me that this would be the case. Maybe it's the same with Freeserve.

#173 Flicker

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 16:17

The pic of poor Barry :stoned:
Posted Image

P.S. Barry plese verify(!!!) Your URLs...

#174 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 17:40

Flicker, you are a star.
Right, to anyone who has not lost the will to live where this thread is concerned, above you can see the Volpini of Alborghetti at Pau.
It is described in the book 'Grand Prix Reflections' as being born of a mother who had been frightened by a Ferrari squalo. Clearly there is little 4CLT Maserati about it.

#175 Roger Clark

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 17:43

Paul Sheldon does recognise thatit was entered as a Volpini, but refers to it as a Maserati because it had a 4CLt chassis. motor Sport (May 1955) refers to it as an anzani-volpini, as does Doug Nye in history of the Grand Prix car 1945-65. DSJ said:

"a nicely made Italian special, built in Milan and using some parts from the Scuderia Milan cars of the old formula 1. It had a twin-cam four-cylinder engine with eight plugs, and four single choke Webers, a four speed gearbox on the back axle, double wishbone suspension with torsion bars, and trailing link rear suspension with a transverse leaf spring".

Later he says:

"Alborghetti was braking for the Station hairpin when Pollet went by on the inside, lapping him. Whether this unnerved the young Italian is uncertain, but the Arzani suddenly accelerated violently and crashed into the barriers, the driver receiving fatal injuries."

Nye's book contains a very nice photograph of the car, as does Mike Laurence's Grand Prix Cars 1945-65.

Nye, Sheldon and Larence all say that te car practiced for the Italian GP later thst year, but neithe motor Sport nor autosport mention it. both Laurence and Nye say that he car still appears in historic racing.

#176 fines

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Posted 05 November 2000 - 14:16

Roger, it was not a 4CLT chassis, instead one of the Scuderia Milano built cars. The only bit Maserati in the car was in the engine, albeit a very little bit.

#177 fines

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Posted 05 November 2000 - 17:09

June 12, 1910: Whilst practicing for the forthcoming "Coupe de la Meuse" in Belgium the Touring Car of P. Chainaye and the Voiturette of Robinson (USA) collided in a heavy fog at 0630 am. Chainaye's riding mechanic, Léon Tutélaire, broke his back and died arriving at the hospital in Verviers (from "Der Motorwagen", issue XIX 1910).

#178 Indy500

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Posted 07 November 2000 - 20:46

I've read some more about that Wilhelm Bauer accident in the book 'mijn vader monsieur Mercedes' (My father mister Mercedes). That book was written by Guy Jellinek a son of Mr. Jellinek.

Bauer crashes indeed in 1900 on the La turbie hill climb. According to this book the hill climb was part of the Nice speedweek.

Three years later on the same spot (according to the book even the same rock !) count Zborowski was killed.

On that rock there were 2 plaquettes installed : one for Bauer and one for Zborowski.. I wonder if they are still there ??????


According to that book there were 10 deads in the 1903 Paris-Madrid race. My count only goes to seven. The book doesn't specify who was killed? anyone got an answer on this ?


#179 mhferrari

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Posted 07 November 2000 - 20:56

Flicker,

The website you referenced, I lost track of, used to be Geocities. Thanks for finding it!

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#180 Barry Lake

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Posted 07 November 2000 - 23:29

From "The Irish Gordon Bennett Race 1903" by Bob Montgomery, Dreolin Specialist Publications Limited, 1999, in reference to the Paris-Madrid race of 1903:

"While not underestimating the horror of the event and its toll on human life, it is now generally accepted that the death count was not more than six - 1 driver, 2 mecaniciens, and three spectators..."

#181 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 09 November 2000 - 01:30

Milan Fistonic asks above if Ernie and Jack McAfee were related.

(by the way - can anyone explain to me how to post someone else's earlier quote? It's such a nice way to refer to an earlier question or comment).

They were not related despite sharing the same surname and racing at a comparable level in west coast (primarily) U.S. road racing in the early 50's. They both drove for John Edgar at one time or another among other entrants. Jack McAfee had been a sprint car driver. He continued to race sports cars at a top level in to the 60's. Ernie McAfee's tragic death that day also marked the last race at the classic Pebble Beach circuit.

#182 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 09 November 2000 - 01:32

Oh, I forgot to add that the date was April 22, 1956.

#183 Barry Lake

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Posted 11 November 2000 - 16:53

Browsing through "The Racing Coopers" by Arthur Owen, I came across the following:

September 1951 (no day supplied), Castle Combe, R M "Curly" Dryden was killed in a JBS 500. (Strange, I thought I had that one listed, but I didn't.)

October 1951 (no day supplied), Brands Hatch, H Parker was killed in a Cooper 500.

April 2, 1956, Goodwood, Bert Rogers was killed driving a Sun Pat Special (I think it was a 500).


#184 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 12 November 2000 - 00:19

Although Rainer's list includes the better known fatalities at Watkins Glen I must add the following names both to respect their memories and in the spirit of historical accuracy.

Sam Collier - September 23, 1950, 38, while leading the sports car Grand Prix - Ferrari

Bud Faust - September 22, 1962 -age unknown - home Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - Lotus-Buick -Sports Car GP

Harold C. Woods,Jr. - August 22, 1965, 34, from Riverton, New Jersey - Glen 500 - Daimler

Edward Mathis - October 1965 -age unknown - from Buffalo, New York - Elva-Porsche

Martin Krinner - August 20, 1967 - age not known - from Boonton, New Hampshire - Shelby350Cobra - Glen 500



#185 Indy500

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Posted 12 November 2000 - 22:44

I've found another one :

Mai 1948, Buenos Aires, GP d'automne a certain Pablo Luis Pessati was fataly injured. Make of car unknown

I've found a picture of the crash in the Belgian magazine of that year bij the name of 'Speed magazine'.

I also found a picture of the crash that killed Alborghetti in Pau, they state that the car was a volpini..

The published quite some shocking pictures in that magazine. It was a monthly magazine in french and a little bit in dutch.

#186 Barry Lake

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Posted 13 November 2000 - 13:40

I think some of these people would be pleased to know they are being remembered after all this time, by such a widespread group as those on The Nostalgia Forum. I know I would be. Better than having been forgotten forever.

#187 Indy500

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Posted 13 November 2000 - 20:20

Yes Barry I agree,

we always try to remember the champions, but are always trying to forget those that gave everything for their sport, hobby or profession. An thats in al sports the same.


#188 Sid Rutty

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Posted 14 November 2000 - 00:31

Two more people that come to mind are Don Watson at Bathurst in 1994 Holden Commodore and Reg Smith at Bathurst 1962 in a porsche.


#189 Barry Lake

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Posted 14 November 2000 - 03:45

If we ever get this list completed (a near impossibility, I would think) then we could start one on racing drivers who showed real promise but left the sport with broken bodies, hearts, marriages, businesses or bank accounts (or all of the above) without having made a real mark for themselves.
Now THAT list would go on forever!

#190 Sid Rutty

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Posted 14 November 2000 - 04:46

As you had said previously it is nice to know that these drivers can still be remembered.

#191 Indy500

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Posted 14 November 2000 - 22:07

Barry,

Another idea for a list that would go on for quite a while is this:

Try the list every race ever driven in any class of motorsport by date...

That would be some lifework I guess..

Anyone interested ?


#192 fines

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Posted 14 November 2000 - 22:43

You must be joking, Indy! :twitching at the thought of:

#193 Mickey

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Posted 17 November 2000 - 15:00

I'm sorry if this won't add anything to the list, but I've just watched, for the first time, a clip of Tim Pryce's and the fire marshall's fatal accident, followed by some stills taken afterwards.
I read about the details of the accident before but, with hindsight, I wish I didn't see the clip. It's one of the most horrific things I've ever seen, really wrenching my guts, and made me think about all the war veterans who saw friends being torn apart. I don't know how they can face the memories of having seen such things. I hope they forget.

#194 fines

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Posted 17 November 2000 - 19:40

A terrible accident, I can remember! And how lucky Stuck and Laffite have been...

#195 Flicker

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Posted 17 November 2000 - 22:40

Nothing to add except sadness... :(
Posted Image

#196 fines

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Posted 18 November 2000 - 21:11

And here's at long last the image of the Alborghetti crash, Pau 1955:

Posted Image

#197 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 November 2000 - 22:51

I wonder if he would have survived if his crash helmet had not come off.

#198 oldtimer

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Posted 19 November 2000 - 04:53

Stepping in very late, a potted history, with a mechanical description, of the Arzani-Volpini is given in Motor Sport Racing Car Review, 1956, by DSJ. The 1956 review would for F1 cars raced in 1955. Jenks description says nothing of the chassis being derived from a Maserati. It had independent suspension all round. Pictures of the car (with no.28, the Pau car) and engine are shown. Jenks wrote that the car appeared for practice at Moza, driven by Luigi Piotti.

#199 Marcor

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Posted 20 November 2000 - 04:21

In his book Le Grand Prix de Pau (1899 - 1960), 1992, Pierre Darmendrail made a description of the Arzani-Volpini and the fatal crash of Mario Alborghetti.

There's nothing really more to add (the picture of the crash is included) but he said that nowadays the driver would be probably unhurt. The young inexperimented driver lost his helmet as you can see in the picture.


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#200 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 20 November 2000 - 19:43

Roger Joice was killed at Silverstone on April 9, 1983 when his Frazer-Nash Le Mans Replica overturned after colliding with another competitor.