147 replies to this topic

[BDM977B]

I note some stuff about the golden age of rallying is appearing here!
Back in 1967 I was a university student and a keen rallyman. A friend and I decided we would follow the 1967 Gulf and Susan Seigle-Morris was kind enough to give us a set of petrol vouchers and a press kit.
At the last minute, my friend chickened out, deciding that bed was more important than spending several nights chasing rally cars. So I set off on my own to see how far I could get before rest became essential. In the event, I got to Newton Stewart and decided to call it a day (well a couple of days and nights!) and have a long sleep...

I took my cheapo 8mm cine camera along, and used all the grant money I hadn't spent on records to buy film. Very expensive, so there's not a vast amount of footage. It is of course, silent!

I've uploaded this to You Tube.
If you're quick as well as the cars you may catch glimpses of:
Susan Hampshire (with the flag) Roger Clark, Vic Elford, John Sprinzel,Tony Fall, Mike Wood, Pat Moss, Liz Nystrom, Graham Robson, Eric Carlsson, Henry Taylor, John Davenport, John Brown, Jean-Francois Piot, Bjorn Waldegaard, Ove Andersson, Bengt Soderstrom, Lars Ytterbring, Roy Fidler, Barry Hughes, Tony Chappell, Hywell Thomas, Peter Wareing, John Vipond, David Seigle-Morris and others...

[RS2000]

Magnificent! Problem is I don't have a fast enough link to keep on downloading it! It was too far to cycle to the start once it moved from Heathrow to Ringway so I never saw anything of 67. Now all I need is an entry list... From guesswork or in one or two cases actual knowledge:
1. Ake andersson 2.Soderstrom 3.Elford? 4.Waldegard 5,7,9,12,13,15,21,23.Take your pick from Saab contingent. 8.Fall 10.Ytterbring 11. Ove Andersson (winner) 16. Piot/Brown 20. Fidler/Hughes 22. Sprinzell
24?Clark?
White CooperS Jerry Larsson?
49.Bob Bean?

[RS2000]

I think this was originally courtesy of someone on Forum Auto - Jean-Francois Piot/John Brown (appears to be at Manchester Airport hotel start:

[BDM977B]

"I think this was originally courtesy of someone on Forum Auto - Jean-Francois Piot/John Brown (appears to be at Manchester Airport hotel start:"

Mmmm.. Don't know where you got the photo from but it's actually also mine, and I did take it in the car park at the Excelsior!. It's amongst others on my Alpine web site. ( I have an A110)

Glad you liked the film. Standard 8mm, I got it copied to VHS tape back in the 1980s and then made the digital copy via my DVR. Sorry about the quality after all those transcriptions.

[RS2000]

Photo above deleted. "Where it came from" was already stated - the main French historic rally site/thread.

Same source for this photo of the winner, Ove Andersson/John Davenport, Gp2 Lotus Cortina (the "Ford Saluki Bronze" coloured car used by Soderstrom to come 3rd on the Acropolis and almost certainly scrapped or otherwise disposed of after this Gulf Rally). Further to attempted list above, the Clark/Porter works Lotus Cortina was actually No.6? Graham Robson has described both the Soderstrom and Clark cars as being Gp5 on this event. Looking at this film suggests they were Gp2, although the reg numbers look to be the ones later carried on Gp5 cars for the cancelled 67 RAC Rally. Anyone out there with an entry list they could copy? I have results for 1st-15th (from the rally results forum experts - Carles in this case?) if anyone interested.

[BDM977B]

"Photo above deleted."
Not necessary, please put it back up since I don't mind, intriguing to know where it's got to though!


I've put the shots of the 68 Oulton Park stage with the early works Escorts here:
http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=a8dA2CaOfXI

As I recall it the Gulf was very free on car specs, and it would have been quite likely that they were Gp V (was there such a thing, I can't remember! Edit: yes there was, that's how they got the Allardettes in!)
Roger Clark and Jim Porter were no 6, they are in one of the shots of the cars starting. Mr Clark was of course very young then, only just out of 2ANR, wearing a dark blue shirt and giving a sour look at the spectators.

[RS2000]

Unbelieveable to see film of the fiirst stage in 68 at Oulton! Many thanks.
Running 10 (or was it 15?) laps of Oulton was highly controversial in what was essentially a forest rally. Both works teams and private entrants complained. As can be seen in the film, it produced cars running together as in racing, on forest ride heights and with most amateurs inexperienced in running close together. Graham Watton, known for driving a Mk2 Cortina, used a Healey 3000 on the 68 Gulf and had a Saab spin in front of him at Oulton and could not avoid it. This did for his (only?) radiator. On return to the paddock/service area he threw his helmet into the car in the way Luis Moya did in more recent years after losing the WRC in the last 100 metres of the RAC Rally.

The Cortinas of Clark and Soderstrom in 67 have bumpers fitted in the film? Running Gp 5 or 6 they normally ran without. The Escorts in 68 were Gp5/6 (no bumpers). Clark's private Cortina GT, 2ANR, (albeit with all the Boreham bits) of course won the 65 Gulf. In 66 he was in the works car KPU383C. I believe the move to Manchester was prompted by the long run out from Heathrow in 66 to the first stage in the Yorkshire forests.

The Swedish Scania Vabis 911s and the inclusion of a freer Gp5/6 category on the Gulf are the root cause of the current 911 domination of the UK Historic rally category, where "used in period" rather than homologated applies. The works 911s in Gp3/4 as late as the 68 RAC were not as well prepared for the forests, through the factory's arrogance, despite having had Vic Elford's advice for 2 years.


Clark starts number 1 in 1966. Elford at offside rear? (and a spectator to the left who seems to be in a fashion time warp by 1966 standards...) :

[RS2000]

Tony Fall in the sole works Cooper S features in both films (No8 in 67, No7 in 68). On the 65 Gulf he drove his private Gp1 car:


On the 66 Gulf he "wrote off" what was (by registration number...) the Aaltonen 65 RAC winning car (which sold for big bucks this year.....) :

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by RS2000

Running 10 (or was it 15?) laps of Oulton was highly controversial in what was essentially a forest rally. Both works teams and private entrants complained. As can be seen in the film, it produced cars running together as in racing, on forest ride heights and with most amateurs inexperienced in running close together. Graham Watton, known for driving a Mk2 Cortina, used a Healey 3000 on the 68 Gulf and had a Saab spin in front of him at Oulton and could not avoid it. This did for his (only?) radiator. On return to the paddock/service area he threw his helmet into the car in the way Luis Moya did in more recent years after losing the WRC in the last 100 metres of the RAC Rally.

As far as I'm concerned, the last RAC was in 1984!

A number of nationals had started using circuits or airfield lappery as part of their events by then and it was, as I recall, no problem for most.
We clubmen had started the practice at Oulton Park a few years earlier on Fylde MSG's Shunpiker. One of the reasons they did it in 68 was that the clubmen complained after 67 that it was a bit silly going to Oulton for service, when nothing else happened there. All that lovely circuit and nothing to do...There weren't many prima donnas then.
With free petrol and a £25 entry fee, the Gulf was a clubman's dream, if you could take the endurance aspects. I am pleased that the clubman's view point held fast.
In any case, circuits are nice and wide. Now for really scarey mixing it, you should have done David Thistlewaite's Bolton Rally in 63,64? (can't remember) when we did multiple laps of Eppynt, and the mid field was regularly passed by the circus by any means possible! It was wonderful to be there. (Particularly with the night sky being lit by fireworks from some exercises going on somewhere else on the range)

[RS2000]

Originally posted by BDM977B
As far as I'm concerned, the last RAC was in 1984!

Well 85 I suppose, although 84 was the last I competed on, so fits the description!

My first experience of laps of Eppynt was the Nutcracker that same Gulf year, 68, in torrential rain.

[Nick Wa]

Naughty Boys!

To continue the thread drift on multiple laps of Eppynt, 66 or 67 likewise can't remember which.

Jim Bate and yours truely had a major breakdown in Bath on the way to the start, well something that required spares not available on a Saturday afternoon. Now I require wheels for work Monday morning so we hire an 1100. We've also got an exeat for the weekend so lets go and spectate. We sign on (to get a road book) and start and do the first three road sections. Now we can't (daren't) do any forestry stages in Mr Swan's car, so we cut cross country to the ranges but the start and finish are on opposite sides of the circuit. We want to see the quick boys, to achieve this we must do half a circuit, the start marshall is quite amazed as this unlikely car is running on time! So off we go after half a lap we are quite enjoying it and nobody has caught us so a little practice does no harm, how about a full lap? yes go on. Eventually got caught at 2/3rds distance but got out of the way early and graciously retired at the end of the lap before David Sutton, Sheppard and few other quick Cortina mates caught us.
Endpiece Jim was so impressed by the 1100s performance he went and bought one!

[jarama]

Originally posted by RS2000

1. Ake andersson 2.Soderstrom 3.Elford? 4.Waldegard 5,7,9,12,13,15,21,23.Take your pick from Saab contingent. 8.Fall 10.Ytterbring 11. Ove Andersson (winner) 16. Piot/Brown 20. Fidler/Hughes 22. Sprinzell
24?Clark?
White CooperS Jerry Larsson?
49.Bob Bean?

#5, Pat Moss-Carlsson / Liz Nyström, DNF

#77, Ted Worswick (Austin-Healey 3000, 67 ARX), classified


Carles.

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by Nick Wa
Naughty Boys!

To continue the thread drift on multiple laps of Eppynt, 66 or 67 likewise can't remember which.

Jim Bate and yours truely had a major breakdown in Bath on the way to the start, well something that required spares not available on a Saturday afternoon. Now I require wheels for work Monday morning so we hire an 1100. We've also got an exeat for the weekend so lets go and spectate. We sign on (to get a road book) and start and do the first three road sections. Now we can't (daren't) do any forestry stages in Mr Swan's car, so we cut cross country to the ranges but the start and finish are on opposite sides of the circuit. We want to see the quick boys, to achieve this we must do half a circuit, the start marshall is quite amazed as this unlikely car is running on time! So off we go after half a lap we are quite enjoying it and nobody has caught us so a little practice does no harm, how about a full lap? yes go on. Eventually got caught at 2/3rds distance but got out of the way early and graciously retired at the end of the lap before David Sutton, Sheppard and few other quick Cortina mates caught us.
Endpiece Jim was so impressed by the 1100s performance he went and bought one!

Wonderful. I seem to remember the Bolton where we did it was also the one where David Thistlethwaite and Gerry Ryan came up with neutralised sections. It's a long time ago and I may have got the name of the tactic wrong, but it was another of the little ruses to fool the RAC (Les Needham hadn't arrived there then). You just wrap up a nice 50mph stage inside a 30mph road section, and you end up with an extremely tight road schedule...Or was the neutralised section something else, invented another year. Bolton Le Moors were very good at that!. Somewhere I probably still have the roadbook for that event I think, must dig it out.

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by RS2000
Unbelieveable to see film of the fiirst stage in 68 at Oulton! Many thanks.
Running 10 (or was it 15?) laps of Oulton was highly controversial in what was essentially a forest rally. Both works teams and private entrants complained. As can be seen in the film, it produced cars running together as in racing, on forest ride heights and with most amateurs inexperienced in running close together. Graham Watton, known for driving a Mk2 Cortina, used a Healey 3000 on the 68 Gulf and had a Saab spin in front of him at Oulton and could not avoid it. This did for his (only?) radiator. On return to the paddock/service area he threw his helmet into the car in the way Luis Moya did in more recent years after losing the WRC in the last 100 metres of the RAC Rally.

The Cortinas of Clark and Soderstrom in 67 have bumpers fitted in the film? Running Gp 5 or 6 they normally ran without. The Escorts in 68 were Gp5/6 (no bumpers). Clark's private Cortina GT, 2ANR, (albeit with all the Boreham bits) of course won the 65 Gulf. In 66 he was in the works car KPU383C. I believe the move to Manchester was prompted by the long run out from Heathrow in 66 to the first stage in the Yorkshire forests.

The Swedish Scania Vabis 911s and the inclusion of a freer Gp5/6 category on the Gulf are the root cause of the current 911 domination of the UK Historic rally category, where "used in period" rather than homologated applies. The works 911s in Gp3/4 as late as the 68 RAC were not as well prepared for the forests, through the factory's arrogance, despite having had Vic Elford's advice for 2 years.


Clark starts number 1 in 1966. Elford at offside rear? (and a spectator to the left who seems to be in a fashion time warp by 1966 standards...) :

Very interesting.

I owned one of those Scania Vabis 911:s between 1974 and 1979. B34880 ( BOL 210).
It was raced by Björn Waldegård in 1967 (but I cant see it in the video).
When I had it...it was modified to a Carrera RS I believe...with a 2 Litre Carrera six motor.
I had no idea about all of this...until the guy who owns it today called me some weeks ago.

I have some pics of it: Waldegård at Jyväskylä...as owned by me...and as it looks today.

Will post pics if interesting.

Best: Staffan

[RS2000]

Would be very interested in photos Staffan.
Without entry lists it is difficult to track the story of the Scania Vabis 911s in the UK. We see in the 67 Gulf film 3 911s at the start running numbers 1, 3 and 4. These are Ake Andersson seeded no.1 (for winning the 66 Gulf in a Saab), what appears to be Bjorn Waldegard's car at no.4 and, by elimination, no.3 being Vic Elford. We also see a Porsche service van in what looks like works orange rather than Scania Vabis red. The no.3 car appears to be red too rather than orange. Vic Elford has posted on TNF, so I hope he still reads it and can recall it! B.Waldegard finished 2nd and A.Andersson 3rd.
(Interestingly, one frame of B.Waldegard walking past the car shows a large Gulf advert on the "bonnet" - no adverts were allowed on cars in UK motorsport until 1968 and it seems to be missing later!)
Having no full entry list for the cancelled 67 RAC Rally, I cannot recall whether SV were there. The only 911 I recall was a white one (for V.Elford?) :

The 68 Gulf was won by Ake Andersson (in a SV car? - but it appears orange in photos) and Lars Nystrom was 4th (also in a SV car?). Again without an entry list I don't know if B.Waldegard or V.Elford were entered but I have an idea there was a 3rd car.
On the 68 RAC, 4 911s were entered - V.Elford, T.Fall, A.Andersson, B.Waldegard. All retired. The last 2 were SV red cars and I believe the first 2 were orange works cars (the V.Elford car that I think was leading at one point certainly was)(although his 68 Monte winning car was red?). I recall seeing one of the SV cars on the end of a tow rope in central Wales (after Dyfi??).
The joys of inadequate records...

[RS2000]

Staffan, was your car B34880 or BB4880? The winning 68 Gulf car carried BB4300 - I have a photo that has appeared on a French forum but I think it was one that also appeared in Motoring News at the time so I'd better not post it here.

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by RS2000
Magnificent! Problem is I don't have a fast enough link to keep on downloading it! It was too far to cycle to the start once it moved from Heathrow to Ringway so I never saw anything of 67. Now all I need is an entry list... From guesswork or in one or two cases actual knowledge:
1. Ake andersson 2.Soderstrom 3.Elford? 4.Waldegard 5,7,9,12,13,15,21,23.Take your pick from Saab contingent. 8.Fall 10.Ytterbring 11. Ove Andersson (winner) 16. Piot/Brown 20. Fidler/Hughes 22. Sprinzell
24?Clark?
White CooperS Jerry Larsson?
49.Bob Bean?

No sooner said than done!

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by RS2000
Staffan, was your car B34880 or BB4880? The winning 68 Gulf car carried BB4300 - I have a photo that has appeared on a French forum but I think it was one that also appeared in Motoring News at the time so I'd better not post it here.

Hi.

It was B34880.

Picture from "Jyväskylä-Rally_1967"

Pic as it looked when I owned it...Visby 1975

2 pictures of how it looks today

Best: Staffan

[jarama]

Originally posted by RS2000

The 68 Gulf was won by Ake Andersson (in a SV car? - but it appears orange in photos) and Lars Nystrom was 4th (also in a SV car?). Again without an entry list I don't know if B.Waldegard or V.Elford were entered but I have an idea there was a 3rd car.

According to my database, Björn Waldegård was @ the wheel of a 911T, but failed to finish.


Carles.

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by RS2000
Would be very interested in photos Staffan.
Without entry lists it is difficult to track the story of the Scania Vabis 911s in the UK. We see in the 67 Gulf film 3 911s at the start running numbers 1, 3 and 4. These are Ake Andersson seeded no.1 (for winning the 66 Gulf in a Saab), what appears to be Bjorn Waldegard's car at no.4 and, by elimination, no.3 being Vic Elford. We also see a Porsche service van in what looks like works orange rather than Scania Vabis red.

It was red, it's very old kodachrome transcribed first to vhs and then to AVI!

The no.3 car appears to be red too rather than orange. Vic Elford has posted on TNF, so I hope he still reads it and can recall it! B.Waldegard finished 2nd and A.Andersson 3rd.

The 911s were red.

(Interestingly, one frame of B.Waldegard walking past the car shows a large Gulf advert on the "bonnet" - no adverts were allowed on cars in UK motorsport until 1968 and it seems to be missing later!)

Waldegaard is walking past his car to join me on the fire escape where I took the shot. He has his camera to take a photo of the car park. He did have a large Gulf logo, and as far as I remember ran with it. I don't think there is another shot of his car, I missed it at the start line. The second Porsche seen starting is Vic Elford

The 68 Gulf was won by Ake Andersson (in a SV car? - but it appears orange in photos) and Lars Nystrom was 4th (also in a SV car?).

They were red in 68 too!

PS, thanks for the entry list, I've been trying to remember whose was the BMW in Myherin (which has a flat tyre): it was Bill Fritchy, Safari man.

I still have the 8mm film, tho' last time I looked the emulsion appeared to be cracking. I'll investigate a direct transcription to DVD, to remove the arguments about colour!!

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by P 4 Staff


2 pictures of how it looks today
Best: Staffan

Lovely! The only car I would swap my Alpine for!!

[BDM977B]

I've got 3 more photos, paddock shots again showing part of B34880 and Elford's car S-YS 848 in 67, and a couple from 68 in colour with 2 red Porsches and a black or dark blue one. I'll post them when I've worked out how you do this here...

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by jarama



According to my database, Björn Waldegård was @ the wheel of a 911T, but failed to finish.


Carles.

Yes...if I recall correctly...the papers said it is a 911T.

But when I had the car it was heavily modified to a Carrere RS...or RSR type...and had a 2 Litre Carrera Six motor.

A friend of mine who worked at Kiruna airfield as an "Airtraffic...???..(dont know in English)...Took me out on the airfield one day.

We clocked the Porsche to 247 km:s avarage over 1 kilometer.

Will post some more pics of this Porsche soon.

Staffan

[RS2000]

Very big thanks to all above for the data.
Interesting on the stage list with the entry list to see Dyfi as one 30 miler - before the days of it being split into Dyfi Main and Dyfi Gartheiniog.

[BDM977B]

These are all in fact from 67:




Look no strut brace, not invented at that point!:

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by RS2000

(Interestingly, one frame of B.Waldegard walking past the car shows a large Gulf advert on the "bonnet" - no adverts were allowed on cars in UK motorsport until 1968 and it seems to be missing later!)

I've found the press list of entrants and the road book, I think the reason why Bjorn Waldegaard got away with the sticker was that the event was sponsored by both Gulf UK, and also Svenska Gulf Oil Co AB...Mind you it was still run under UK SSRs.

Embarassingly, in the road book, I've also found a note for a John Dixon SS37 from Peter Harwood giving instructions about the phoning of stage results which was apparently giving problems. I gave up my pursuit of the event before SS37: the note must have been given to me by Peter to pass on somewhere earlier on, tho' I don't remember it at all. I was getting a bit dazed by then, probably due to those little helpers we used to use. At any rate, if John Dixon, head marshal of the Chang stage reads this, and would like to find out how he was supposed to handle things, I'll certainly pass the note to him! I suppose he'll have closed the stage by now.

http://www.postimage...e.php?v=aV5Bszi

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by BDM977B
These are all in fact from 67:




Look no strut brace, not invented at that point!:

Fantastic...very nice to see this pic.

Here is a pic of Waldegård and his father:

and a couple of pics of the motor:

Best: Staffan

[BDM977B]

Those lovely triple choke Webers! Beautiful

[RS2000]

Originally posted by BDM977B
Those lovely triple choke Webers! Beautiful

The Soderstrom Cortina however appears to be on TJ injection rather than twin Webers and the entry list shows the Soderstom and Clark cars in Gp5 (and Graham Robson's fairly recent book "Boreham" is thus correct). For the 67 RAC these Gp5 cars were without bumpers, as were the Gp5or6 Escorts on the 68 Gulf (the 68 RAC having reverted to normal regs that did not allow Gp5/6 and such cars only able to enter the "European Cup Rally" that ran ahead of it). Wonder why the full lightening treatment was not applied on the 67 Gulf?

[RS2000]

When David Siegle-Morris's (Gulf Clerk of the Course) motorsport effects were auctioned after his death there was surprisingly little in the way of Gulf stuff, just some 68 items, including a Roadbook.

[RS2000]

Originally posted by BDM977B

I was getting a bit dazed by then, probably due to those little helpers we used to use.

"I thought Dexies' Midnight Runners was just the name of a pop group until I discoverd 60s rallying".

No, I never took anything more than concentrated glucose and those that went the Dexedrine or Benzedrine route usually reported the same problem - almost complete shut down too early, before the end of the rally. It was a bit longer than the long bombing raids over Germany they were prescribed for.
Notice the start/finish timings on the entry list - no nights in bed.

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by RS2000
When David Siegle-Morris's (Gulf Clerk of the Course) motorsport effects were auctioned after his death there was surprisingly little in the way of Gulf stuff, just some 68 items, including a Roadbook.

Here is the early Lotus Cortina he brought to the 1963 Chester MC Bernie:
http://www.postimage...e.php?v=aV6iug9


I can't remember whether it was this event or another, but I remember passing him broken down somewhere, since this was one of the early cars with the A frame under the diff.

As for dexies, a friend had introduced us to another type which I won't name here, didn't give you a dry throat and came in a controlled release capsule...

[RS2000]

Originally posted by BDM977B


Here is the early Lotus Cortina he brought to the 1963 Chester MC Bernie
I can't remember whether it was this event or another, but I remember passing him broken down somewhere, since this was one of the early cars with the A frame under the diff.

Didn't stop them using one on the 63 RAC then? (786BOO, Henry Taylor) - although the experience seems to have been too traumatic to repeat until the leaf springs were homolgated in 65!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by P 4 Staff
A friend of mine who worked at Kiruna airfield as an "Airtraffic...???..(dont know in English)...Took me out on the airfield one day.

Air Traffic Controller ?

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Air Traffic Controller ?

Probably so

He drove a 912 ;)

Staffan.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by P 4 Staff


Probably so

He drove a 912 ;)

Staffan.

They all do

[RS2000]

I see there was a 912 entered on the 67 Gulf. Not able to take advantage of its Gp1 homologation as Gps1&2 were combined. The Scania Vabis cars are entered as Gp2 so were 911L spec? but the Elford car was a Gp3/4 911S (so works presumably). (VE was of course driving the former AFN demonstrator in the BSCC as a Gp2 911L in 67).
Scotland's Ken Wood was an ATC and rallied Rover 3500, TR7 V8 (and Metro 6R4?).

[jarama]

Originally posted by RS2000
I see there was a 912 entered on the 67 Gulf. Not able to take advantage of its Gp1 homologation as Gps1&2 were combined. The Scania Vabis cars are entered as Gp2 so were 911L spec? but the Elford car was a Gp3/4 911S (so works presumably). (VE was of course driving the former AFN demonstrator in the BSCC as a Gp2 911L in 67).
Scotland's Ken Wood was an ATC and rallied Rover 3500, TR7 V8 (and Metro 6R4?).

Elford's car was S-YS 848 (a works unit) seen also in the '67 Monte (Klass/Wütherich, 42nd).


Carles.

[Milan Fistonic]

While looking for something else I came across the report of the 1968 Swedish Rally. It had this to say about the Porsches.

The two Porsches entered by Scania Vabis, the Swedish truck manufacturers who also import Volkswagens and Porsches, were actually marked 911T but were fitted with the standard S engines and entered in Group 3. Their only modifications were twin-pipe exhausts. They were finished in a vivid orange and sported full-length quarter-inch plate as underbody protection.

Waldegard's car was BB2277 and Andersson's BB2276. Both cars had large Gulf signs on the bonnets.

[Milan Fistonic]

Here is the 1968 entry list.

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
Here is the 1968 entry list.

Note Russell Brookes down at number 129 codriving for Roger Platt!

[RS2000]

Milan, my very great thanks for that - have been trying to locate a copy for a long time.

Quite a few names in their early days.
Chris Sclater's first International? (ex-Allard car?)
Paul Faulkner at very end.
Tony Mason

Someone once said the John Woodward Cortina used the shell of the 67 winning car but I thought it was a new MK2 shell used to re-shell an ex-works "KPU" reg (anyone know which?) Mk1 that was fire damaged.
I see Graham Rood there (author of new book on works Tigers - see book thread).

I was recruited into a service crew because, although very young, I knew how to change a hydrolastic unit on a Mini - and did so, sadly not within time as car took too long to get out of stage. Hair stood on end for weeks from the fluid that got in it.

Sadly also saw the downside of increasing summer traffic (many minor incidents) and the bad episode involving a service crew and a bridge parapet in SW Scotland. It was probably a fataly flawed concept to think a "Liege" could be run in the UK, just when it had been decided it no longer could in less traffic in Europe. We laughed at the time about falling asleep at the wheel and waking up driving along a grass central reservation but it all had to stop...too much blood on the tracks...

[Milan Fistonic]

In 1968 there were 16 non-starters but the report lists only eight of them.

Numbers 9, 11, 16, 17, 21, 41 and 59 did not start while Mike Offley withdrew leaving the Austin 1800 in the hands of Terry Harrison and Rob Lyall.


Martin Holmes showed remarkable dedication by fronting in the event.

Near the end of the rally a notice was posted at a control point informing him that he was the proud father of a son. As the report stated: "While he'd been losing sleep on the rally, his wife, Sally, had been kept awake for other reasons."

[RS2000]

Thanks - explains why I didn't remember the Renaults etc. in 68. Also I seem to recall Norman Harvey drove his Cooper S (an unusual metallic maroon and silver paint scheme) not a 911, unless I'm thinking of another event.

[Nick Wa]

I expect the Renaults were busy in Czechoslovakia being driven by locals, the drivers were certainly there using Alpines with Mr Todt replacing Mr Brown.
VLTAVA (MOLDAU) RALLY: 68
1). Jean Vinatier/Marcel Callewaert - Alpine Renault A110, 2). Simo Lampinen/Torsten Palm – Saab 96 V4, 3). Gilbert Staepelaere/Andre Aerts – Ford Escort TC, 4). Håkan Lindberg/Bo Reinicke – Saab V4, 5). Jean-Francois Piot/Jean Todt – Alpine A110, 6). Bonnier/Barth – BMW 1600, 7). Kec/Klima – Renault 8 Gordini, 8). Zid/Eech – Skoda 1000 MB, 9). Galle/Muller – Trabant, 10). Asmus/Piechler – Trabant.

Whilst sitting under a tree in Pisek watching the mechanics change all the bushes in a Saab's front suspension after a hard night's rece, we were all privy to a telephone conversation being made from the lobby of the nearby hotel between a M/s Nystrom who was attempting to beat the Czecho telecom system and a Mr Anderson who appeared to be in M-A-N-C-H-E-S-T-E-R. Eventually Torsten Palm called out "Liz come outside he will hear you better!"

John Brown was apparently considered too portly for an Alpine seat, I can't say the other fellow was exactly sylph like.

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Nick Wa
John Brown was apparently considered too portly for an Alpine seat, I can't say the other fellow was exactly sylph like.

Probably not enough room either for JB to duck a marshal's fist if he continued in his "shouting up" mode at controls...
By chance saw the Barry Hinchcliffe film "From Harrogate it Started" again the other day, with J.Todt's dainty footsteps on the ice after emerging from the J-L Therrier Alpine.

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by Nick Wa

John Brown was apparently considered too portly for an Alpine seat, I can't say the other fellow was exactly sylph like. [/B]

Jumbo Nicholas was no wraith either! The seats on Alpines were built for the drivers, and I have a picture of them side by side at an event, but it's copyright so I can't put it up here

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by RS2000


By chance saw the Barry Hinchcliffe film "From Harrogate it Started" again the other day, with J.Todt's dainty footsteps on the ice after emerging from the J-L Therrier Alpine.

Another film of the era I have in my collection, but doesn't seem to be that common is Lancia's 'Road Time', commentary by a rather formal JDFD. Lots of Alpines, '73 Monte Carlo.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000


Probably not enough room either for JB to duck a marshal's fist if he continued in his "shouting up" mode at controls...

He shouted his required minute to me, as he came into the time control,when marshalling on the Classic Targa some years back, he shouted the minute that he wanted, I told him the clock showed a later time, he argued, but took the time as it was coming round to the next minute.......Gamesmanship!

[RS2000]

Originally posted by BDM977B
Alpines, '73 Monte Carlo.

OT, but who could resist a mention of "Biche", AKA Michele Petit?

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and in 2007?