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Bob Jane's cars - where are they?


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#151 David Shaw

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 12:56

:eek:

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#152 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 12:58

What does that tell you David? I hope it doesn't blow apart all your theories.

Allen

#153 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 16:38

David... from post 137:

Originally posted by Myself
By the way, for the pic of Harvey that's showing Allen's M10B, go to P 22 of RCN July 1970.


I think everyone missed this line when I posted it earlier...

Here's the pic, anyway, complete with the caption:

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I can spot a difference between this car and the one in the yearbook photo... can you?

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I think you're correct about the possibility that pics in yearbooks cannot be trusted.

Remember, too, my point about the Lakeside report... that he'd biffed the car at Surfers, therefore likely having to substitute cars?

#154 David Shaw

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 19:11

I can spot the difference with the cockpit sides and matching rear bodywork. I wonder if it is a different meeting or if they tried different bodywork on a new car?

I take it that photo appeared in the review of the Sandown Tasman meeting? The roll hoop structure, complete with supports gives it away to me as the Jane, tapering from the top and two braces. For that reason the Fred Wheelhouse photo is more confirmation. With the car more or less evolving from a Brabham to the Jane, the roll hoop is the one visible structural piece that to me indicates which chassis it is.

Sorry Ray, I did miss that earlier reference to that photo, but then again seldo has all my RCNs now anyway.

#155 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 19:21

No, David...

I specifically stated that this is the photo from Lakeside. I have no doubt whatever that this pic is from that Lakeside meeting and no other. I explained how it got mixed up with the Sandown F5000 shot.

There are no forward braces on the roll bar. Were they maybe a late addition?

#156 David Shaw

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 19:59

I think the front braces did appear a bit later.

What I meant by a different meeting, was I wondered aloud if the annual photo was taken at a different meeting. I have no doubt that the RCN photo is from Lakeside.

#157 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 00:09

Put it this way, David...

Have you ever seen a Lakeside pic like that?

I would reckon it's Surfers, but they didn't run there. Oran Park? Is there a photo credit? That might give a clue...

#158 David Shaw

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 01:13

I must admit to frowning this morning when I tried to picture it being Lakeside. I only have a photocopy of the article, so no sign of a credit.

#159 Haggis 2

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 14:45

Originally posted by David Shaw


Even if Britto did build another chassis, that was definitely in the first half of 1968, not 1969 unless the year quoted on the CoD is incorrect.

My thoughts are that maybe Neil has the Jane Brabham with the Britto chassis (as raced by the Jane Org. after the Bathurst crash) and that Art has BT23E-1 with a repaired chassis. This would explain the existence of two cars.


I think the opposite scenario could be more likely. My father did some work on the car when Rod Housego and then Domenic Mannello owned it. He found that the chassis was significantly twisted from some huge accident in days gone by. Makes me think Neil's is probably the "genuine" article.

As for the CAMS COD, it makes me laugh to think anyone would take these seriously. They are compilled from heresay and legend and if you can prove that the self tapper holding the grungy dish washing liquid container used as a oil dump can came from the 1962 Thingumybob Special they'll issue a COD. :lol:

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#160 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 14:50

Originally posted by Haggis 2
.....As for the CAMS COD, it makes me laugh to think anyone would take these seriously. They are compilled from heresay and legend and if you can prove that the self tapper holding the grungy dish washing liquid container used as a oil dump can came from the 1962 Thingumybob Special they'll issue a COD.


It's not that easy is it?

I heard that a large sum of money had to also change hands...

#161 GO NOT SHOW

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 00:07

Looking closely at the yearbook photo the asphalt the car is standing looks pretty fresh, and the track edges have nil grass cover, which indicates a recently re-surfaced track. The lack of grid markings may indicate the car is not on the track but on an access road/dummy grid perhaps.

If you look at the shadows you could get this angle from the top of the Lakeside Tower if Harvey was on drivers left on the grid, maybe 2nd row. The tower is close to the track and the track is narrow.

If the shot was taken at Surfers it would have been impossible to get this overhead angle from the top of the tower to a car on the left of the grid, and the shadow (if in afternoon) are the wrong way around. The tower was well back from edge of tack and the track very wide (dragstrip). Also at lakeside you start into the afternoon sun (west) while surfers grid faced the morning sun (east).

Note to self - remove detective hat before lunch !

#162 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:59

By that reckoning, then, these two pics are from the same meeting?

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We have, then, a difference in the car at the one meeting... the higher sides on the bodywork appearing on the car in the static shot. If your guess is correct, and it looks pretty good, then it means the photo out of Hungry was from practice.

Remember, Harvey had crashed the previous week at Surfers, so many odd things could have been happening. And the Racing Car News report mentions that the Lakeside surface was new... the 'practice session... began as the contractor put away his brooms'!

Harvey sat on the outside of the second row. I completely agree that this pic is from Lakeside and that the car changed between practice and the race.

#163 GO NOT SHOW

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 03:09

Are there any other photos of the start of this race - where are the grid markings ?

I can't believe that CAMS would have allowed a race start without markings.

The overhead shot was taken very late in the day due to the shadow lengths (and it was policy at Lakeside to avoid late afternoon starts for open wheelers), so could it have been taken during private practice before the meeting (thurs or Fri). Do the race records give a start time ?.

With the re-opening of Lakeside soon, and the tower and track in the same relative positions, it would be possible to duplicate those photo shadows given the date and time of day.

#164 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 03:56

It was winter, the sun set early...

By what I read in the report, there were some 'local races', some motorcycle races and then the Gold Star event ran late in the programme. There was maybe two races after it.

On the other hand, the photo of Stewart coming off the Loop might need your detective skills. Or was it also a practice pic?

#165 GO NOT SHOW

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 05:26

The Hungry photo shows straw bales at the apex - which supports the "new surfacing" story.

I'm not familiar with the Stewart photo at the Loop ?.

#166 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:43

The fact that Des wrote it confirms, not supports, the fresh surfacing...

Now this pic is taken from inside the Eastern Loop... witness the wire fence that's seen at no other part of the circuit. Stewart is heading basically south as he heads towards Shell Corner.

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Note the shadow of the front wings is virtually in line with them... the sun is high and generally in the north. So, again, probably taken in a practice session. Which makes sense, Brier would have shot this stuff both days to be sure to get pics of each of the cars, and probably stationed himself at the other end of the circuit on race day for variety. As it transpires, the only pics used were from this end of the track.

#167 John Ellacott

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 11:35

Bob Jane Elfin 400 Repco - Warwick Farm February 1967

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#168 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 11:49

Good on you John!

Nice one, I don't recall seeing that before, looks like practice day. Good to see you posting pics at last!

#169 David Shaw

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:21

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Nice one, I don't recall seeing that before, looks like practice day.


Is that judging by the crowd or the car's shadow? ;)

I agree, lovely picture.

#170 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 13:28

Originally posted by David Shaw
Is that judging by the crowd or the car's shadow?


Nahh... the bloke in the background, he always wore his blue hat on Sundays...

.....I agree, lovely picture.


David, I can tell you, you ain't seen nothin' yet...

Now John's posting pics you're in for a real treat.

#171 John Ellacott

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 05:54

Bob Jane Maserati 300S running as a GT car Bathurst October 1961.

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#172 Leo D

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 07:32


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#173 David Shaw

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 09:07

Nice, the BT11A that Spencer brought with him across from Scuderia Veloce. Taken at Phillip Island on the weekend I imagine.

#174 GD66

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 13:17

Drool, dribble, slaver.... wow, you gotta love TNF !! Keep 'em coming, lads....;)

#175 Haggis 2

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 00:20

Originally posted by giffo
I have found & uploaded these images of the Jane car prior to resto
They show (for BT23 experts) some of the Britten chassis differences at the rear & the shape of the fuel tanks that the Jane car used.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


Yep..... I've been lurking around old posts... : From Giffo's pics, I still don't see any confirmation that this is the Jane and not the original Brabham chassis. If the roll bar is the primary evidence, as everyone seems to be hooked on, then not only are the forward braces, and their mounting points, missing, but there is also no visible evidence of their mounting points onto the chassis rails around the cockpit. I was very familiar with the car when Rod Housego brought it to WA in the mid 1970's (my father did a lot of prep work on it) and cannot remember forward rollbar bracing then either. Not only are there no mountings, but their alleged removal is pretty damn good.... There's no sign of welds on any of the tubes, or telltale grind marks where they were removed. It's not easy to remove that type of evidence from chassis tubes, and given the rough state of most of the chassis I can't believe that whoever did it would have been bothered with taking the time to make this area of the chassis perfect.

The oil tank location would have been a very simple modification on any car, so this is of no consequence.

I'm not saying it isn't the Jane, but I don't see any compelling evidence so far that it is either.

#176 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 21:26

The Monaro is with Tino Leo in Sheparton, as far as I know last raced at the GP in 94 where the engine hd a big blowup at the end of qualifying. Willie Van Wersch has the much modified/updated Torana and Bob Jane has the restored Camaro.
The red and white Torana pictured is owned by Rob Solomon in Perth who bought it from me in early 2007. I had it for 24 years. Quick, simple, proven Chev powered car, would be the fastest early Torana Sports Sedan in Australia.

#177 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 21:39

The Monza got rebuilt by Bryan Thompson into the Supra which then went to Des Wall who raced it until recently and probably still got it.
Thommo's Torana was not the Bob Jane car, was built in Shep by himself and Peter Fowler. Was raced later by the Lustys

#178 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 21:51

Not to mention the unlikeable Mike Gore...

Or maybe we shouldn't have mentioned him? I think Geoff Russell also raced it in Queensland.

#179 thunder427

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 02:48

The Des Wall Syndicate has the Bob Jane Monaro Sports Sedan,Ex-Ward ,Ex-TIno Leo, and are restoring it to its former Improved Production Spec's, so watch for this to appear real soon ,I'm betting that it will look 'Fantasic'!!!....................perhaps Muscle Car Masters ????????????????


Who's Mike Gore !!??

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#180 Terry Walker

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 02:52

Three pics of Bob Jane's cars at Wanneroo Park

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#181 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 03:00

Originally posted by thunder427
The Des Wall Syndicate has the Bob Jane Monaro Sports Sedan, ex Ward.....

Who's Mike Gore !!??


He died about ten years ago in America. Was big in the Sports Sedan scene in Sydney until he bought the Beechey Monaro 350, then moved to the Gold Coast and eased his way into that society. Some people were not saddened at his loss.

There'd be an awful lot of work to do to get that Munro back to original!

#182 thunder427

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 03:17

Great Camaro Pictures,Nice 'white' pipes...........Camaro is in bits at this time,a bunch of new 'you bute bits', also installing an 'original-stock-factory 'Hurst' shifter, Plus 'Powersteering' (this !!, has proved to be a challenge space wise,but have "Aced" it ,.........ton's of room..."so to speak"!!)...the Annual 5/year service!!..............so see you all, in the Sun, at the 'Muscle Car Masters'







#183 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 07:14

From memory the Monaro was not fully modified when Tino had it, the motor was back a bit but I would suggest a far easier rebuild than the Muscle Car article on the Camaro.
I think Mike Gore was the father of WPS Craig Gore. Same attitude anyway!

#184 Leo D

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 08:02

Originally posted by David Shaw
Nice, the BT11A that Spencer brought with him across from Scuderia Veloce. Taken at Phillip Island on the weekend I imagine.


Sorry David, I missed your reply.... Yes it was at the Island...
Here is another...
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This one is a little older.... I've posted it on another thread previously
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#185 Catalina Park

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 09:22

I was reading about Mike Gore in my old RCNs the other day. In one issue he had someone run into his trailer wrecking his whole outfit and a couple of pages later he lost the lot in a workshop fire. Talk about bad luck.

#186 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 11:10

I don't think much was lost in the workshop fire at all...

Mostly it was the office area that was burned out. Bookwork, records, that sort of thing. Similar to the fire at the house where he had his office on the Gold Coast a few years later.

And yes, he was Craig Gore's father.

#187 thunder427

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 14:24

Lee Nicolle,the Monaro was very 'heavily' (read "Lightwieght!!)modified,I remember one day at Grey St. (Bob Jane Racing 'workshop')Pat Purcell, Harvey Spencer and Myself, bodily, carried the Monaro body across the workshop,(Oh !!HNS were where you !!)then we proceed to remove another 80LB from the total car weight,so I can assure you, the Des Wall Team will have had a 'Task' at least Equall to 'Project Camaro',I know by 'Association' that they are 'vvveeerrryyy' passionate to return it to its 'original' Improved Specs And willing to give it a 'Romp'as well...Lee as you would understand,to bring these cars back in the 'Spirit' of the era takes 'Tons' of research,Tons of patience and Buckets of money,Though, the main ingrediant is,'Passionate people' with out thier dedication we would all be reading books,looking at pictures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#188 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 22:17

I never saw the car in its early days, raced against when Tino had it, at that time it seemed fairly heavy and a lot of GMH. The Muncie was fairly trick though, I remember it in bits in the Sandown pits early 90s and it had lots of aftermarket [Hollinger?] bits.
At that time it seemed to need doors, guards, bonnet boot full trim etc to get it back to improved touring. Maybe a too casual observation but the basic shell did not seem to be badly cut up. I wish Des all the best on the resto and it will look far better in red!

#189 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 22:31

Holinger or Weissman, I don't know if Weissman made gearbox parts in those days, but the car certainly had a Weissman limited slip unit... it played up at Oran Park one day and gave the driver a terrible ride...

Even as a Sports Sedan, the car retained the original pickup points in the rear floor, with great big spherical bearings that took the place of the ever-compliant original rubbers. There must have been incredible stresses fed into those pressings!

The outstanding memory I have of this car, apart from when Wardspeed was giving it the benefit of his youthful exuberance, was when Harvey used it to ride shotgun to Bob's Camaro at Oran Park. Every lap he would follow Bob onto the straight, just in front of Moffat, who he clearly hated at that time, pull to the inside of the circuit and wave Moffat past.

The arm would come out of the window, lap after lap, "Come on, come on!" he'd be urging, but as he planted the boot into that 350 it simply drove away from the Mustang every time.

#190 seldo

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 16:21

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I don't think much was lost in the workshop fire at all...

Mostly it was the office area that was burned out. Bookwork, records, that sort of thing. Similar to the fire at the house where he had his office on the Gold Coast a few years later.

Damn!....You wouldn't think one man could have so much bad luck........ :eek:

#191 thunder427

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 03:00

There is no such thing as 'Bad Luck',........it's just a sheer case of MISMANAGEMENT !!

#192 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 03:37

I don't think he had any females working in the business, actually...

So there was no 'miss' in the 'management'.

#193 Catalina Park

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 10:07

I wonder who had the bad luck, Rod Blair or Digby Cooke?

#194 seldo

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 10:22

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I wonder who had the bad luck, Rod Blair or Digby Cooke?

I don't think it was Digger...;)

#195 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 10:23

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I wonder who had the bad luck, Rod Blair or Digby Cooke?


Perhaps someone had the Lion on the line?

There were others, of course, particularly in Canberra...

#196 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 02:28

As a lot of you may be aware there is a writeup on the restored HQ coupe in the latest Austalian Muscle Car magazine.
It must have been one helluva job from reading Thunder 427s comments on how much the car was lightened in Janes control let alone 20+ years of motorsport afterwards.
Congratulations to Des Wall and team for the job, it will be interesting to see Des race it too.

#197 Michael Gasking

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 02:18

Re: The so called Jane engine.
Even though I was a frequent visitor to the Jane workshop on my way home from Repco Brabham where I worked the Dyno, and enjoyed talking to Bob and his brilliant mechanic John Sawyer, who was once with Otto Stone and raced a K3 himself, I had forgotten all about the proposed engine and indeed thought it was a furphy until the name Bill Fell came up.
I used to work with Bill at R-B but he had more ideas than we could handle at the time, so I think he did move on to the Jane organisation.
I have often thought of him, as he was amongst the first to buy one of the very attractive Fiat 850 Sports Coupes for which we at the SCCSA are often asked to turn up information.
I would like to know where he is now.
Michael

#198 Lola5000

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:54

The 1st Jaguar E-type FHC?

#199 Ellis French

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 09:35

A few Jane cars....

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Lwt E Type Calder 8/66

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Elfin at Longford 66

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McLaren at Symmons Plains

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He put this one off Pit Corner at Symmons and retired for the day

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Camaro Symmons Plains

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Transam Mustang Symmons Plains

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V8 Torana Symmons Plains

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Another of the Torana V8 at Calder

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Another of the Camaro at Calder

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#200 Lola5000

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 09:51

gee he had/and has great cars.
I think i saw his brother Bill at a Auction today in Kew.
Any photos of the FHC E-Type.