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4 race gearbox?


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#1 Clatter

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 14:14

The 4 race gearbox was supposed to be coming in for 2008. Can anyone confirm if this is still the case, or was this one dropped?

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#2 peroa

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 14:38

http://www.fia.com/s...ons/f1regs.html

According to this, 4 races.

#3 Wout

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 15:30

I hope RBR gets their act together then :

#4 Dragonfly

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 16:57

This is stupid and driving F1 further away from it has been deemed to be.

I'd prefer a rule about 1 Mosley for 4 years maximum.

#5 D A

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 17:10

With any luck Mosley will be gone after 2009. In October 2005 it was decided that the president couldn't serve more than 2 terms. In 2009 Mosley would begin his 5th term (if they began their 4 year term on or before 2001, in which he began his 3rd term).

#6 united

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 17:45

Originally posted by D A
With any luck Mosley will be gone after 2009. In October 2005 it was decided that the president couldn't serve more than 2 terms. In 2009 Mosley would begin his 5th term (if they began their 4 year term on or before 2001, in which he began his 3rd term).


As a Belarusian I can tell you that autocrative presidents sometimes tend not to rely on some written laws. That's nothing new.

#7 Clatter

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 18:37

Originally posted by peroa
http://www.fia.com/s...ons/f1regs.html

According to this, 4 races.


That's what I thought. I was hoping it had been delayed/scrapped and I'd just forgotton about it.

I can see an awful lot of grid penalties next year./

#8 scarbs

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:40

The rule IS coming in for 2008. But don’t forget the rule only covers the mechanical part of the gearbox, so hydraulics are not part of the rule. It’s the hydraulics that cause the majority of the failures.
Even then, the teams are allowed to change the gears (and dog rings) for different ratios in between races, plus they can change a damaged ratio during a race weekend, as long as they don’t make a habit of it. I don’t see the rule making much impact on the racing next year.

#9 Clatter

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 12:24

Originally posted by scarbs
The rule IS coming in for 2008. But don’t forget the rule only covers the mechanical part of the gearbox, so hydraulics are not part of the rule. It’s the hydraulics that cause the majority of the failures.
Even then, the teams are allowed to change the gears (and dog rings) for different ratios in between races, plus they can change a damaged ratio during a race weekend, as long as they don’t make a habit of it. I don’t see the rule making much impact on the racing next year.


Well we already see teams cruising to save the engine, I fear this will just make the situation worse.

#10 Timstr11

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 16:36

Originally posted by scarbs
The rule IS coming in for 2008. But don’t forget the rule only covers the mechanical part of the gearbox, so hydraulics are not part of the rule. It’s the hydraulics that cause the majority of the failures.
Even then, the teams are allowed to change the gears (and dog rings) for different ratios in between races, plus they can change a damaged ratio during a race weekend, as long as they don’t make a habit of it. I don’t see the rule making much impact on the racing next year.

Aren't Spyker already running a conventional 4 race gearbox?
I think they introduced it with the new rear end several races ago.
Gascoyne thinks teams with Quickshift boxes will struggle with the new rule.

#11 DEVO

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 17:43

What about the gear shift mechanism, will it remain semi-automatic? Or will it be a manual shift?

I would love to see a miss-shift occur in a race, it seems impossible with current cars.

#12 wingwalker

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 18:06

Originally posted by DEVO
What about the gear shift mechanism, will it remain semi-automatic? Or will it be a manual shift?

I would love to see a miss-shift occur in a race, it seems impossible with current cars.


i guess we would be hearing lament of the teams for months now if the manuals were to be reintroduced. but that would be great.

#13 DEVO

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 18:48

So I found this off on the FIA website... it appears that gear changing will now be in the drivers hand, and not a computer.

GEARBOXES
- All cars will be fitted with gear ratios, final drive ratios and differentials which have been manufactured by an FIA designated supplier to an agreed specification
- Gear changing will only be permitted by the use of a manually operated mechanical linkage to the gearbox
- Clutches will only be operated via a foot pedal connected mechanically to a release mechanism

Reasons
- to restore control over the clutch and gear changing to the driver
- the use of standard gearbox internals will result in a very significant reduction in expenditure

#14 peroa

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 18:58

I don`t think that is meant for 2008.;)

#15 WigF1

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 23:40

It would be marvelous if that was for '08 - where did you find it DEVO ?

#16 Melbourne Park

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:41

Originally posted by scarbs
The rule IS coming in for 2008. But don’t forget the rule only covers the mechanical part of the gearbox, so hydraulics are not part of the rule. It’s the hydraulics that cause the majority of the failures.
Even then, the teams are allowed to change the gears (and dog rings) for different ratios in between races, plus they can change a damaged ratio during a race weekend, as long as they don’t make a habit of it. I don’t see the rule making much impact on the racing next year.

I don't understand that: are you saying that hydraulic actuation is not regarded as being mechanical?

#17 Mr_London

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 16:51

whats the point of introducing a 4 race gearbox? must be to save money and try and help the lower teams


Mr_London

#18 barteks

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 18:32

BMW could have a serious problem...

#19 Clatter

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 11:25

http://www.fia.com/a...t/article2.html

This article talks about weight penalties for engine/gearbox changes rather then grid places. Was this thrown out?

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#20 ATM_Andy

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 13:07

I Don't think that because Red Bull had issues this year with there design means they will next year, with the new rule. Evey team will have to change their design as no one's gearbox at present can last 4 races.

#21 AFCA

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 15:47

The gearbox needs to last four Saturday/Sundays now, around 2500 km. If you can show to an FIA official that only the gear wheels or the claw clutch are damaged, then you're allowed to change these without being penalized. As was the case with Raikkonen in Melbourne. If however, more internals are damaged you will be put back five spots on the grid. As was the case with Glock in Melbourne.

But everytime after a Grand Prix teams are afraid their gearboxes have been kind of pre-damaged in some way, which may lead to a real malfunction and thus a penalty. Prior to the Bahraini GP, McLaren and Toyota requested the FIA to break the seal of Hamilton's and Glock's gearboxes respectively, to be able to have a look inside. In both cases a component of the differential was replaces, legally.

Prior to the Spanish GP there are likely to be such requests again. Glock suffered a gearbox problem which forced him to switch to a back-up programme. This might lead to some 'after effects' although Vasselon leads us to believe that ''...normally everything should be fine.'' Which must perhaps not be taken for granted with today's delicate seamless-gearboxes.

Already in the warm-up lap Piquet told the team his gearbox wouldn't engage in second gear. Renault asked the Brasilian to abort the race. Piquet wanted to go on but would have risked a greater gearbox failure by doing so, Symonds: ''Now we're allowed to change exempt from punishment in accordance with the regulations.''

During the wintertests not as many gearbox problems were reported as is the case now. In Melbourne three gearboxes were changed, in Malaysia four and prior to Bahrain two.

Costa reckons things will go on like this: ''In case of normal operations, the internals endure the four races without problems, like in testing. But in case of emergency, so many peak loads can occur due to the hectic and special circumstances, that more than just the gearing wheels and claw clutch are affected. We are yet to see many gearbox changes as well as penalties.''

#22 AFCA

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 17:58

The gearboxes that are used on Friday are not part of the four race life span. This is actually an expensive regulation because a number of (top)teams bring more gearboxes to the trackside than would actually be necessary.

Nowadays the topteams take seven gearboxes to a GP. Three (including one spare gearbox) are used on Friday. Two brand new gearboxes are transported to the circuit in case a problem occurs with either of the 'regular' gearboxes that are in the four race life span. These two gearboxes could be left at home in case it would be allowed to use a gearbox from Friday in the event of a malfunction. The next four race life span would then commence at the next GP. The 5 place penalty will remain unchanged.

This regulation would safe transport- and construction costs.

The team principles agreed on this change in the regulations. In case the World Motorsport Council accepts the change then the new regulations could be enforced come Monaco already.