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The Maserati 151#002 of Maserati France


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#1 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:44

Maserati 151#002

This absolutly fascining car of the Maserati France came twice in England.

First : august 6, 1962 for the Guards Trophy at Brands Hatch, where Lucien Bianchi DNS after oil leak was found during warm the engine,
and the following year (151-1#002 with the new V8 5 liters fuel injected) where Lucien Bianchi finished 13th and last, august 5, 1963.

Who remember this two races ?
Who have colors pics ?
Who have details ?

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#2 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:41

:wave: Maserati Tipo 151 The last monster from Modena has race reports ,results , statistics ,colour pics (though only b/w from the Guards) , as well as technicals etc.

by Michel Bollee and Willem Oosthoek !!

A great book on a great looking car !!!

1962 : T151 , chassis 151.002 , 3944 cc

1963 : T151/1 ,chassis 151.002 , 4941cc



#3 SWB

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 15:31

The French car went through a few evolutions, eventually becoming the Tipo 151/4 in 1965, which was the end of it (I think?), and unfortunately the end of Lucky Casner when it flipped at the Le Mans trials in April.

There is a very good write-up of all three cars in 'Maserati-The Postwar Sportsracing Cars' by Joel Finn.

#4 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 18:09

Really, here, nobody remember the Guards Trophy of 62 and 63 ?

#5 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 18:27

As you obviuosly know or have the book I mentioned , I wonder what it is you are after! Apart from colour pics!

#6 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 19:11

Yes, I've the wonderful book of Michel Bollée... (except of the bad print)

I just want some details direct from personal pics or temoignages

#7 d j fox

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 19:49

OK—I’ll try to remember!!

Back in 1962 practice for the Guards Trophy Race on August 6th ( Bank Holiday Monday) was on the preceeding Wednesday to enable the Grand Prix drivers to then get off to the Nurburgring for the German GP.

For some reason a “friend of a friend” —allowed my Dad and I to assist him with marshalling at the very exit of South Bank bend—in those days it was a concrete post inches from the track, more or less at the pint where the racers were drifting onto the grass!!

A truly wonderful entry had been received for this meeting ( no less than 6 Ferrari 250 GTOs in the GT race!). For the main race Mike Parkes in the works Ferrari Dino 246, two more Ferraris from Scuderia SSS Republica di Venezia for Jo Bonnier TR1/61 and the wonderful “Breadvan” for Carlo Mario Abate. Innes Ireland UDT Laystall Lotus 19, Jim Clark in the Essex Racing Stable Twin cam Lotus 23 and Roger Penske in a bright red Cooper Monaco with “freaky” America fins, Jaguar D types, Listers, hordes of Lotus 23s ,Elvas and good old Jack Fairman in the curious Ecurie Ecosse Tojeiro Climax “EE”.
Struggling manfully during the practice session was Lucien Bianchi in the rather tatty looking Maserati Tipo 151. From our viewpoint it seemed to lurch and roll it’s way around South Bank and was misfiring and banging up the straight. Bianchi was only 8th quickest against the stellar field and it was no real surprise when the car didn’t turn out for the very wet and very miserable Monday afternoon race…a “broken oil pipe” was the slightly lame excuse given. The car would have gone backwards in the race….

For 1963 at least the weather was kinder and the main race was this time for Sports and GT cars, and in the dry….another splendid entry was received.
Once again the Maserati was hopeless…..
For fans of this period I’ll jot down the runners from my scribbled lap chart -- lap 2 to be precise
1st Roger Penske-Zerex Special (single seater)
2nd Roy Salvadori-CT Atkins Cooper T61 Maserati
3rd Timmy Mayer -ex Penske Cooper Monaco
4th Tony Maggs-UDT Laystall Lotus 19
5th Graham Hill-Maranello Concesionaires Ferrari 250 GTO
6th Carlo Mario Abate- Ferrari TR1/61 (ex Venezia now painted grey!!)
7th Innes Ireland –works Aston Martin DB4GT (“Project style”)
8th David Piper- Ferrari 250 GTO
9th Jack Sears- John Coombs Ferrari 250 GTO
10th John Coundley-Lotus 19
11th Chris Kerrison Ferrari 250 GT Drogo Speciale
12th Chris Summers- Cooper Chevrolet
13th Dicke Protheroe –“low line” Jaguar E type “Cut 7”
14th Peter Sargeant- Jaguar E type
15th Bill Kimberly- works Aston Martin DB4GT (“Project style”)
16th “Lucky” Casner- Maserati Tipo 61 with strange bodywork-entered by Col. Simone
17th Lucien Bianchi-Maserati Tipo 151 entered by Col. Simone
18th Jimmy Blumer-Marina Rolls Royce ( who else remembers that!!??)
19th Augie Pabst-John Mecom Lola GT Chevrolet
20th Lorenzo Bandini- Maranello Concesionaires Ferrari 330LMB
21st Tommy Hitchcock-Prince Zourab Tchkotoua Ferrari 250 GTO
22nd Maurice Charles- Jaguar D Type
23rd L.Fowler - Jaguar E type
24th “Paddy” McNally-standard road going Chevrolet Corvette Stingray

…I’d pay serious money to see that again!!

David Fox

#8 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 19:56

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All Photos: Copyright The GP Library

DCN

#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 20:29

Small version:

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#10 RA Historian

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 00:27

Originally posted by d j fox
For fans of this period I’ll jot down the runners from my scribbled lap chart -- lap 2 to be precise
1st Roger Penske-Zerex Special (single seater)

Wasn't the Cooper Zerex Special a two seater by then? If memory serves, after winning Riverside and Laguna Seca in October, 1962, Roger was told that the car had to be a true two seater or he would not be allowed to race it again. Over the winter the car was rebuilt with two seats side by side in order to qualify for the sports car rules of the day. I don't know if this happened before or after Roger moved his operation in with Mecom.

#11 Jerry Entin

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 00:27

A few corrections to David Fox's list of participating cars in the 1963 Guards Trophy:

- Penske's Zerex Special had ceased to be a single seater for quite a while and was now a real, genuine, FIA-approved two-seater.

- Pabst's Mecom Lola GT, in its maiden appearance, carried a Ford engine, not a Chevy, whatever the race program may have claimed.

As for Monsieur Gamand's claim of "bad print" concerning Michel Bollee's self-published Tipo 151 book, I am totally baffled. Perhaps there is a language barrier on his part, but as Michel's co-author on a number of his books, I have ample comparison with other recently published motorracing books, done on cheap paper and with inferior photo reproduction. Michel has done an excellent job so far.

Last, two of DCN's photos were taken at Le Mans, not Brands Hatch.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

#12 RA Historian

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 00:40

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
Yes, I've the wonderful book of Michel Bollée... (except of the bad print)

What? The copy that I have of this book by Michel and Willem (as well as their great book on the 450-S) is anything but bad print, et al. I was impressed by the quality of the work, almost as much as I was stunned and impressed by the beadth of the work and the research. Maybe your copy got damaged at the book store before you bought it, because that certainly was not the state of my copy.

#13 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 03:22

Thanks for all

When I say "except for bad print" I just pointed that colors pics are not the good one. (My job is art edition...)
But it's difficult for me to explain in english.

Jerry don't be baffled : nevermind, I confirm the book is excellent and Michel have done an fantastic job...it's the reason why I bought it !

Effectively, the two first pics post by DCN was take at Le Mans, and on the first we can see André Simon, just behind the car (with the parka)

#14 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 07:03

If Doug's 2nd and 3rd photos were both from Le Mans, why is the front bodywork different and the number in a different position?

Did they try 2 different noses?

#15 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 07:15

I believe its Cl.Ferrand 63 , not LM ! Probably whats called a "seniormoment" !

#16 Jerry Entin

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 15:57

Photo 1: Le Mans Preliminaries, April 6 1963: Chassis 002 still with 1962 body. Mechanic Cleto Grandi and Andre Simon next to the car.

Photo 2: Le Mans Practice, June 12 or 13, 1963: New body and door windows still to be opened up. Unfamiliar spectator behind the car.

Photo 3: Brands Hatch, August 5 1963: On the starting grid next to Kellison's 250GT. John Simone with cap and Cleto Grandi behind the car.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

#17 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 17:04

Why didnt you say that at once ! Now I :blush:

Could it be because I :smoking:

With all my seniormoments :drunk:

Thanks Jerry and Willem :clap:

#18 TIPO61

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 21:32

EVERY book we buy (motorsports and non-motorsports) should have such "bad print" as Oosthoek's definitive works.
We should be so lucky.

#19 r.atlos

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 22:02

Sorry, Jerry, if I have to correct the obvious: It is, of course, André Simon (no "e" at the end please) whom we see with helmet in picture #1. The man behind this entire project was, of course, Colonel Johnny Simone (and now with with an "e" at the end please) whom we see in picture #3.

André Simon was working as late as 1982 at the Thepenier garage in St.Cloud (a.k.a. Maserati France). A very nice and unpretentious chap "you could buy a used car from" (and, in fact, I did). Realizing that I knew a bit about his and Thepenier's past he gave me a guided tour through the premises' vaults: The 250GTO was still there, an A6-heaven-knows-what Zagato, an A6GCS Spider - absolutely terrific !!

I would also tend to disagree that the 151 present at the April '63 test was identical to the '62 version (I appreciate that these have not exactly been you words). While the body was still basically the same I think to remember that the door lines leading to the rear fenders as well as the side windows had been slightly modified.

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#20 Jerry Entin

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 03:17

Tipo: Thank you very much for your compliment of the book.

R. Atlos: You are right about Andre Simon, I have corrected it above. My mistake.
Careful comparison of the doorlines and side windows between the 1962 version of chassis 002 and the version that appeared during the April 1963 Le Mans Preliminaries show no differences. The only 1963 changes to the 1962 body were:

- blocked-off oil coolers in the tail.

- additional hood bulge to accomodate the new fuel injection.

- central hood bulge extention [near the windshield] to close off the previously open rear section of the same.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

#21 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:17

David,

Thanks for the precision about the 1962 practice of 151#002.

Here a pic of the 1963 start : Penske (Zerex), in front of Maggs (Lotus 19), Salvadori (Cooper T61), Tim Meyer (outside, with the white Cooper), Aston of Ireland...

Good old time indeed !

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#22 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:37

Is that really Tony Maggs? The helmet looks a bit dark. (yellow)

#23 bradbury west

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 11:41

The Rosso Bianco car listed as a 1963 car at the 1994 Goodwood FoS

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usual copyright rules.

Roger Lund.

#24 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 11:49

In Motor Racing Reflections by Anthony Carter (Veloce) is 3 pics of the T151 from the Guards 62 !
A fantastic book with lots of great pictures never seen elsewhere ! And in the 2nd edition a guy named Bjørn Kjer is mentioned having helped with a lot of infos! :smoking:

#25 tyjak

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 14:38

Is that a 250 GTO on the inside, fourth car back?

#26 scags

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 16:00

2, I believe.

#27 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 16:04

Are you :drunk: I only see 1 , the other to me is fith ! :rotfl:

#28 r.atlos

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 16:49

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Careful comparison of the doorlines and side windows between the 1962 version of chassis 002 and the version that appeared during the April 1963 Le Mans Preliminaries show no differences. The only 1963 changes to the 1962 body were:

- blocked-off oil coolers in the tail.

- additional hood bulge to accomodate the new fuel injection.

- central hood bulge extention [near the windshield] to close off the previously open rear section of the same.

Ooops, sorry - I just realise what has mislead me here: I have compared a side view of 002 from the '63 April trial with one of the '62 Cunningham cars (004 or 006). But when comparing with 002 as it was in 1962 it is absulutely identical except for the details you mentioned above. :blush:

#29 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 17:46

I believe the fith is Graham Hill on the Maranello Concesionaires 250 GTO

#30 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 18:07

The Competition Press report by Tim Mayer on the 1963 race said the following:

"...an immense 5-liter Maserati for Lucien Bianchi...Prototype honors went to Bandini in the Ferrari, Bianchi taking second place after completing 36 laps and nearly as many pit stops..."

"...Roger Penske driving the Mecom Racing Team Zerex Special powered by a 2.7 liter Coventry Climax engine..."

"...Tony Maggs in the BRP Lotus 19-Climax..." (started on the front row, finished fourth)

I think it is the #24 and #26 Ferrari GTOs in the photo, Graham Hill and David Piper...

"...The GT section of the race was considerably less placid, with Graham Hill, Innes Ireland and Jack Sears all chopping each other up with great abandon until Hill's throttle broke on lap 10..." (In GT, they finished Sears, Ireland, and then Piper).

Vince H.

#31 Jerry Entin

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 18:56

I presume the GTO discussion centers around the Brand Hatch starting grid photo taken in 1963. Don't know what grid format was used, 3-2-3, or 3-3-3, but Kerrison qualified 12th fastest with this #29 250GT Speciale, with Bianchi 13th fastest in the Tipo 151. Next to him, out of the photo, would have been Summers' Chevy-powered Cooper Monaco 14th fastest]. All GTOs qualified ahead of this row, with the exception of Hitchcock in the #27 GTO [15th fastest]. Next to him would be Sargent's #19 E-type [16th fastest]. All grid positions from the Tipo 151 book.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

#32 d j fox

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 19:17

OK—Penske leads from Maggs (most drivers never cleaned their helmets in those days!) and Salvadori; alongside is Mayer. Behind Mayer is Ireland and behind him (right) is Abate.
Behind “Salvo” is G Hill and Piper with their GTO's-behind Piper is Summers in the Cooper Chevy.
Behind Hill is Sargeant's E type-behind him is Kerrison and alongside the Ferrari is Coundley’s Lotus 19..then possibly Sears' GTO on the inside and just visible Kimberley’s Aston.

David Fox

#33 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 19:26

Many thanks David for your contribution.

I try to understand the reality of this Maserati 151#002 : fantastic car, or just one more on the grid...

#34 tyjak

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 23:14

Just an observation.... The #24 GTO appears to be a right hand drive car. According to the Ferrari Register, #4399, car #24, was a DNF at Brands Hatch on 3-8-63, driven by G Hill. The register says this is a left hand drive car. If memory serves me correctly, there were only 3 right hand drive cars. Could this picture be from a different race? I have seen where different numbers were used on the same car at different events. Did not Surtees use #24 on his GTO at some races? I beleive Surtees raced at Brands Hatch in '62. Surtees car was right hand drive. Any thoughts?

#35 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 07:30

Originally posted by tyjak
The register says this is a left hand drive car.


The following shows 4399 is right hand drive

http://www.barchetta...99GT.250GTO.htm

Vince H.

#36 D-Type

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 08:51

Barchetta sometimes get it wrong.

For example, they say that the 3 litre 'Dino' driven by Mike Hawthorn at the 1958 Daily Express meeting was RHD. But the photograph in Motor Sport clearly shows it to be LHD. I have told them and they did nothing, not even an acknowledgement.

#37 r.atlos

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 13:18

Why the doubt about 4399GT being RHD ? There was a wonderful LAT color pic in Motorsport 9/2004 showing Graham Hill at the TT on 24/08/1963; the car was RHD and even sported the correct road registration 91553 MO.

#38 tyjak

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 13:34

It was just an observation based on seeing Surtees in a GTO with the #24 at some point and the apparent error in the register. I went back to the register and noticed the car pictured on the register is indeed a RH car, and the text says it is a LH car. They obviously did not proof read their information.

#39 scags

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 14:05

the Jess Pourret "250 GT" book also has it as a RHD car, original owner Maranello Concessionaires, later converted to the 64 body style.

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#40 RacingCompagniet

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 13:21

Back to the Maserati France 151. I cannot recall ever having seen/heard/read an explanation to the rather strange door / side window design for 1963. I don´t even think the excellent book states more than that additional slits were added before the 24-hours race. (I can see why. With the original 'sky-lights', M. Trintignant would not have been able to see out the side windows even if standing up in the seat...)

Could the reason have been a misintepretation of the technical rules regarding door size, or is there any other explanation (except for the obvious one that it made communication with the team manager easier during the pit stops... :lol: )?

#41 cstlhn

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 14:18

I believe that this is the Maserati of France 151 at LeMans;

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I would like to commend Willem Oosthoek on his brilliant research on this very subject. I plan to purchase one of his books, If there are any left.


Please credit the David Castelhano Collection

#42 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 16:55

:wave:Yes David ,but it did only 2 races in this disguise in 1962. For 63 the bodywork was uglier and not so beautiful with different colours too and a 5 litre engine for 4 races and LM practice. For 1964 it got new bodywork again and other colours looking very fast and did 3 races + LM practice.For 1965 it was "only" different colours and the end of T151/2 sadly, at the LM practice. If you are just a little curious about Maser , any book by Willem and/or Michel will fulfill your wishes ! I guarantee!

Thanks for the picture ,Bjørn :smoking:

#43 driverider

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:49

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
:wave:Yes David ,but it did only 2 races in this disguise in 1962. For 63 the bodywork was uglier and not so beautiful with different colours too and a 5 litre engine for 4 races and LM practice. For 1964 it got new bodywork again and other colours looking very fast and did 3 races + LM practice.For 1965 it was "only" different colours and the end of T151/2 sadly, at the LM practice. If you are just a little curious about Maser , any book by Willem and/or Michel will fulfill your wishes ! I guarantee!

Thanks for the picture ,Bjørn :smoking:



just come across this thread..........the Willem Oosthoek book is outstanding

on the original topic did anyone see the 64/65 car live? 1964 or possibly early on in testing for Le Mans 65

I know that the results were poor due to poor prep and development and not finishing but how did they look on track? climbing to 5th at LeMans in 64 must have meant that they could be competitive in it?

#44 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 15:01

Sorry to interrupt you driverider :wave: but they did climb to 3rd at LM ! It really was "sensationally" competitive , but of course if it hadnt been for the electrical maladies , we shall never know what would have been. And the "lack of prep" might have to do with not enough money! Reality shows that even with the 2 oldies driving it was fast and doing well !

#45 driverider

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 15:34

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Sorry to interrupt you driverider :wave: but they did climb to 3rd at LM ! It really was "sensationally" competitive , but of course if it hadnt been for the electrical maladies , we shall never know what would have been. And the "lack of prep" might have to do with not enough money! Reality shows that even with the 2 oldies driving it was fast and doing well !


thats what I thought!

#46 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 19:20

And the "lack of prep" might have to do with not enough money!


Maybe not... the fact is, Maserati and Le Mans.... well, you check the records. :)

#47 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 19:59

:wave: Barry , records dont tell if you have money.........

#48 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 20:11

Bjorn, my point is, check the finishing records of ALL the Maseratis that have ever started at Le Mans.

#49 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 21:11

:wave: Yes Barry , the results show relatively few Maseratis entered , seldom as works cars and WHEN supporting private teams probably LACK of money made the prep too shabby , so in most cases after good showings they retired ! And even then you will see silly reasons for those retirements in half the cases! They did after all have a few decent finishes and were more often than not the only rival to .....well ,their RIVAL !smoking: ! And they were allways fast ,the 64 model doing 308,2 km/h !
I am not (only) defending , but it must be put in perspective , count the entries and compare...............
Maserati were never Jaguar , Ferrari , Ford or Porsche !
OK , I know , it is all about winning and they did not............I remember reading Autosport reports when a youngster , allways thinking "why dont they just win ?"......... today I understand explanations and reasons better! None of this being meant that you do not , of course!

#50 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 21:25

They did after all have a few decent finishes


Are you serious? :D

9th in 1956; 12th in 1957; 4th & 8th in 1961, are the ONLY Maseratis ever to finish at Le Mans!