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#1 xmbreak

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 20:56

:up:
Hello Every-one
I'm searching some information about Howden Ganley who as I was told was a Formula 1 driver some year ago from new zealand.
I saw a pic of him driving a Citroen SM on "touring saloon cars" I think and I like to know a bit more about this race and how it could be possible for him to compete on this car
On another forum someone told me that he recently lost his wife and may be my question is a little bit "out of" his main preoccupation nowaday that's why I would be delighted if someone can help me.
Please forgve me if my english is not so good but I'm french and I try to do my best.
With my best regards
Thierry

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#2 Gary C

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 21:03

before you do ANYTHING else, please look through this thread : http://forums.autosp...&threadid=94301

#3 sterling49

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 21:05

From memory it was on the Avon Motor Tour of Britain, a mixture of Rally Stages and circuit races, won by James Hunt, Roger Clark and Tony Pond in the years '73,'74 and '75 (IIRC :smoking: )

#4 Doug Nye

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 21:05

Welcome to TNF. Howden is a very popular New Zealander, a former racing mechanic who became a very capable racing driver, notably in Formula 5000, Formula 1 plus CanAm and sports-prototype racing. Try any of the relevant websites to find his track record. He then became a competent and successful constructor, building Tiga cars with ex-driver Tim Schenken. He has also been a very active and capable Director of the British Racing Drivers' Club.

DCN

#5 jarama

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 21:27

Thierry,

may I suggest you to go to the Search BB facility, enter Howden Ganley and maybe you'll find some useful info.

Carles.

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 22:00

Originally posted by xmbreak
.....I saw a pic of him driving a Citroen SM on "touring saloon cars" I think and I like to know a bit more about this race and how it could be possible for him to compete on this car.....


That would also interest me very much!

#7 Michael Clark

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 01:58

Howden is a good friend of mine - we are in regular contact.

If you have any questions, PM me and I'll be happy to pass them on.

#8 Rob29

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 09:06

Saw an interview with Howden yesterday.On Sky World Motorsport-should be repeated several times!One thing I did not know was that he was the first McLaren F1 mechanc when they started at Monaco 66.

#9 Rob Ryder

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 09:25

Originally posted by Rob29
Saw an interview with Howden yesterday.On Sky World Motorsport-should be repeated several times!One thing I did not know was that he was the first McLaren F1 mechanc when they started at Monaco 66.

Yes, I was lucky enough to catch the part that covered the 'Mechanics Trust' annual dinner. It was great to see so many of the old faces.. and try to recognise them! I loved Howden's comment about Big Lou :)

For those that missed it, it is repeated at 9am & 2.30pm tomorrow (Tuesday) Sky Sports 2
Rob

#10 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 12:07

Originally posted by xmbreak
:up:
Hello Every-one
I'm searching some information about Howden Ganley who as I was told was a Formula 1 driver some year ago from new zealand.
I saw a pic of him driving a Citroen SM on "touring saloon cars" I think and I like to know a bit more about this race and how it could be possible for him to compete on this car
On another forum someone told me that he recently lost his wife and may be my question is a little bit "out of" his main preoccupation nowaday that's why I would be delighted if someone can help me.
Please forgve me if my english is not so good but I'm french and I try to do my best.
With my best regards
Thierry


Could this be the Citroen SM race at the Dubai "GP" in 1981? I'm at work at the moment but will check the entry list when I get home.

#11 Rosemayer

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 17:29

Here i a little info.

1961, Citroën began work on 'Project S' - a sports variant of the revolutionary Citroën DS. As was customary for the firm, many running concept vehicles were developed, increasingly complex and upmarket from the DS - eventually becoming a halo vehicle for the brand. Citroën purchased Maserati in 1968 with the intention of harnessing Maserati's high performance engine technology to produce a true Gran Turismo car, combining the sophisticated Citroën suspension with a Maserati V6 engine.

The result was the Citroën SM (Sport Maserati), first shown at the Geneva Motor Show in March 1970. It finally went on sale in France in September of that year. All produced were left-hand-drive, although some RHD conversions were done in the UK.

The SM was Citroën's flagship vehicle, competing with other high performance GTs of the time from manufacturers such as Jaguar, Lotus and Porsche. It was also Citroën's way of demonstrating just how much power and performance could be accommodated in a front-wheel drive design.

The SM innovated a new type of variable assist power steering that has since spread throughout the vehicle population. It allowed great assistance to the motorist while parking, but little assistance at motorway speeds. The steering actually had the same "assist" at all speeds - the steering was hydraulically locked against steering movement of the wheels from the road ("feedback") up to the capacity of the unit. Hitting a pothole at high speed would not turn the steering wheel in the driver's hands! The hydraulic pressure to the power centering unit increased with speed, giving the impression of less and less power "assist." Enough pressure was admitted to the centering unit to return the wheels to the straight ahead position when the car was not moving. The centering pressure was regulated by a flyweight centrifugal governor driven by the pinion (secondary) shaft of the manual gearbox and by a proportioning valve connected to the pressure in the automatic gearbox, which pressure was proportional to the speed of the output shaft.

Contemporary automotive journalists were most effusive about the SM's dynamic qualities, which were unlike anything they had experienced prior. The SM provided a combination of comfort, sharp handling, and high performance not available in any other car at the time. Popular Science noted that the SM had the shortest stopping distance of any car they had tested. To this day this stopping distance remains outstanding.

#12 xmbreak

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 21:43

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall


Could this be the Citroen SM race at the Dubai "GP" in 1981? I'm at work at the moment but will check the entry list when I get home.


I think no I'm sure that it was a CX gti race in Dubai 1981 with formula one drivers.
According to some info I got it must be avon motor tour of britain in 1973, 1974 or 1975
Regards

#13 Jerry Entin

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:59

XMBreak or Thierry: Welcome to the forum. As they say here it is from the horses mouth: This is what Howden has to say about driving the Citroen:
" I think this must all relate to the "Tour of Britain" in 1973.
When the event ( a British version of the Tour de France ) was
announced Ray Hutton, Sports Editor, and then later Editor of Autocar
magazine, asked me if I would like to compete in it. Me to drive and he to Navigate.
It was to be a mixture of rallying and racing. Ray organised
the car, in this case a Citroen SM. A lovely Motorway cruising car, but
not exactly a rally or racing car. The biggest problem was that the rules
required the car to be in standard form, but the Citroen with all its
clever hydraulics needed to have the valves changed in the suspension
system so as to stiffen it up but this was not permitted so it rolled
around like an old school bus and tore up the tyres. The event lasted three
days and visited various circuits and special stages. It was actually quite
hard work and rather tiring. I was in the middle of a fairly busy racing
season anyway with the World Championship F1 races, plus the
non-championship F1 races,( with Williams ) plus the World Sports car
Championship with Gulf Racing, so I probably should have taken the weekend
off to catch up on my sleep instead of losing even more sleep on the Tour.
Nevertheless it was good fun, and quite amusing at times. The Citroen was a
great understeerer, with front wheel drive and all the braking on the front
wheels so we had a few 'incidents' at speed. On one special stage through
the grounds of a Stately Home I arrived into a corner much too fast and
slid across the immaculate lawn into a huge Rhodedendrun hedge out of which
we ricochetted and continued on without even lifting off. We were one of
the first cars through but probably the same hedge reached out and grabbed
a few other competitors as they slid past ! One can imagine the Head
Gardener reporting to his Lordship on Monday morning " Begging your pardon,
M'Lord, but it appears that one or two motor cars may have been driven
across Your Lordship's lawn and into Your lordship's prize hedge "

#14 alansart

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 09:25

Originally posted by sterling49
From memory it was on the Avon Motor Tour of Britain, a mixture of Rally Stages and circuit races, won by James Hunt, Roger Clark and Tony Pond in the years '73,'74 and '75 (IIRC :smoking: )


The SM taken at Knebworth Park - bearing a few scars!

Posted Image

#15 sterling49

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 09:49

Great photo Alan!!! Like rallying an armchair!!!! Memory proved o.k. in the end.....Just!!!! :smoking:

looks like Howden is giving it the full beanz :up:

#16 alansart

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 10:08

Originally posted by sterling49
Great photo Alan!!! Like rallying an armchair!!!! Memory proved o.k. in the end.....Just!!!! :smoking:

looks like Howden is giving it the full beanz :up:


I remember it well. Knebworth House has, or had, a concrete single track road that ran around the Park. It was a hot dry day and most drivers were using the grass as much as the road. That Ciroen had so much body roll it was still swaying as it dissapeared down the next straight. I'm surprised they weren't sea sick!

A great event. They should bring it back.

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 10:19

Originally posted by alansart
A great event. They should bring it back.

They have
It's call the Britannia Tour

#18 RS2000

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 16:12

Originally posted by David McKinney

They have
It's call the Britannia Tour


Except the Tour of Britain was for Gp1 saloons. So was this "revival" said to be when originally proposed (cars up to 1981, the end of the Appendix J that included Gp1). Reality is, I'm sure, that with race circuit fees as they are today, it never could have worked as a true, affordable revival of the T of B. What still grates though is that the first change to the proposed event was to amend 1981 to 1978 - and that had the effect of excluding a lot of affordable cars owned by impecunious rally people - and still leaves a scar. Water under the bridge because, with hindsight, today's revival event could never have been "affordable".
(It actually grates with some of those who could afford it - I was talking to a 70s racing driver at his Caribbean home last December who had been interested in doing the event...until he saw the cost details and high standard of hotels, at which point the expletives came thick and fast).

#19 alansart

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 17:02

Originally posted by David McKinney

They have
It's call the Britannia Tour


What I meant was Current GP Drivers, Rally Drivers and some of the best International, Club drivers and Journalists all hammering around the UK in virtually standard road cars.

Brittannia Tour has it's place, but it's hardly the same.

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#20 xmbreak

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 18:04

Gratefull thanks for all these very interresting answers that are very nice for me even if I sometimes needa dictionnary :lol: to understand everything
I wonder if someone can find in his archives the final result of such competition
Best regards to you all
Thierry

#21 David McKinney

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 22:43

Originally posted by xmbreak
I wonder if someone can find in his archives the final result of such competition

Here you are, Thierry:-
1 James Hunt/Robert Fearnall (Chevrolet Camaro)
2 Gordon Spice/Stan Robinson (Ford Capri 3000)
3 John Handley/John Clegg (Alfa Romeo 2000GTV)
-
18 Ganley/Hutton
-
21 Graham Hill/David Benson (Datsun 180B)
-
27 Frank Gardner/John Davenport (Datsun 180B)

#22 xmbreak

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 22:55

:clap:
Thanks a lot David I appreciate, can you just tell me how many cars participates to the race and how many did finish the race
Best regards :up:

#23 Jerry Entin

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 02:08

xmbreak: Here is a little more information from Howden on the Citroen:
" I am sorry it is a bit brief, but I don't want
to bore the TNFers with a lot of detail. The whole event was quite
entertaining so I have written a short chapter about it in my book. An
unusual car, very clever technically although with only a little 2.6 litre
V6 Maserati engine it did not have a very good power to weight ratio.
And it was hard to get the tail out , except on the grass !!"
Howden

#24 David McKinney

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 09:50

Originally posted by xmbreak
Thanks a lot David I appreciate, can you just tell me how many cars participates to the race and how many did finish the race

I don't know how many participants, but there were 100 entries. I imagine most of them would have finished.
And, by the way, it wasn't a race. It was a rally

#25 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 10:16

Originally posted by David McKinney

I don't know how many participants, but there were 100 entries. I imagine most of them would have finished.
And, by the way, it wasn't a race. It was a rally


And to confuse it had races included!! :drunk:

#26 David McKinney

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 11:52

Just like the Tour de France rally :D

#27 RS2000

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 15:54

I think the first couple of years it was reasonably balanced between the "race" stages and the "rally" stages. That a rally driver, not a racing driver won in 74 is maybe something Gregor may have an insight into! (team orders or blocking!)
Certainly for 76 and probably for 75, it was heavily biased towards the "rally" side. Not in total stage distance between circuits and more rally-orientated stages but by overall stage times. A race circuit stage could be a lot of laps/mileage but only produce a few seconds separation. A rally stage in those days tended to produce greater time intervals - it is only today's "WRC" cars that finish entire World Championship Rallies seconds apart.

#28 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 18:13

I couldn't possibly comment on the '74 Tour!! :stoned:
All I will say is there was no way Dad was going to win it but he loved it.
He was mega annoyed Vauxhall hadn't allowed him to do the '73 one (he had done the odd rally that year too) and he paid out of his own pocket to enter a car in '74 but then got the Ford call and drove the Escort whilst his car was driven by someone else.
The '75 event he didn't enjoy as his Magnum kept blowing rear tyres but the the '76 event he finished 4th overall in another Magnum, so he didn't have a bad record in it and always said when he was old and slow he'd go rallying!!

#29 RS2000

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 21:30

A bit OT, but a very poor photo taken on the Weston Park Stage of the 76 Tour of Britain - not sure if it's Gerry Marshall.
Posted Image

#30 Muz Bee

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 21:42

You may be able to fill in some of the gaps in the Howden Ganley story by googling Bruce McLaren Trust where he is regarded (along with most New Zealand enthusiasts of the era) as the 4th member of the kiwi "trio at the top". A very versatile man, the mark of "a true kiwi"!

#31 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 22:35

Originally posted by RS2000
A bit OT, but a very poor photo taken on the Weston Park Stage of the 76 Tour of Britain - not sure if it's Gerry Marshall.
Posted Image


If you can zoom in a bit on the off side front light and see 4 DTV as the number plate then it is Dad in '76.

#32 HASNO the Frog

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:24

I just happened to be looking at the Judy Ganley items when I saw Howden's name immediately above Judy's on the list!!
What are the odds of that happening with all the subject matter that is posted one this site?
Or is somebody on high arranging the listings.....!
On a serious note has a book been written yet of Howden's life in racing as I am sure it would have some references to his life with Judy?

#33 Michael Clark

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 22:22

Originally posted by HASNO the Frog

On a serious note has a book been written yet of Howden's life in racing as I am sure it would have some references to his life with Judy?


Stand by HtF ;)

#34 xmbreak

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 22:07

:clap:
Thanks a lot to everyone of you who gave me parts of informations about Howden Ganley.
I've learned a lot with your help and it was a very nice experience to talk to you.
I'll kept preciously all your answers and try to find always a little bit more for my future book when I'll be retired in 2023 :rotfl:
Best regards

#35 BT8

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 01:41

Another shot of Howden and the SM
Posted Image

#36 jph

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 17:38

As this thread meandered from Howden Ganley via the Citroen SM into the Tour of Britain, maybe it's not too irrelevant to mention that Mike Beckwith raced one of these unlikely cars in production saloon races in the 70s.

As for the Ganley book alluded to in Michael Clark's post, can anyone shed any further light? So long as it's not another Eoin Young cut-and-paste job.....

#37 John-w

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 12:47

Hello,

here is Howden's Marlboro-BRM P160/05 (Clermond-Ferrand 1972) in scale 1/20th.
More photos on my homepage:
http://www.john-w.de/models/news.htm


Posted Image

John-w

http://www.john-w.de/models/

#38 David M. Kane

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 15:35

That is an impressive model!

#39 COUGAR508

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 17:32

Originally posted by David M. Kane
That is an impressive model!


Indeed it is. On first glance, I thought it was a photo of the car itself!!

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#40 Jerry Entin

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:39

Posted Image
Here is Howden Ganley in 1966 at the Nassau Speedweeks. Ian Gordon riding along side of Howden.
photo Ted Walker collection-scanned for site Terry O'Neil.
copyright 2007 Ted Walker

#41 flat-16

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 13:46

Originally posted by COUGAR508


Indeed it is. On first glance, I thought it was a photo of the car itself!!


It fooled me for a minute or so :blush:

I would equate rallying an SM to be a bit like digging the garden in a Chanel suit :D

One thing I find difficult to understand about the SM is its choice of FWD. Maybe I'm missing something (I probably am), but if a car's got the budget for a relatively complex Maserati engine and hydro-pneumatic everything, it's hardly going to have a negative impact on sales if you factor RWD into the package. As can be seen from the photos of the SM on the track, understeer wasn't just an issue on rallies. Either way, it's a fantastic car - a model I suspect every petrol-head wants to own for a time before they snuff their mortal coil - it's just that the choice of FWD puzzles me somewhat.


Justin

#42 sterling49

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 13:55

Originally posted by flat-16
Either way, it's a fantastic car - a model I suspect every petrol-head wants to own for a time before they snuff their mortal coil - it's just that the choice of FWD puzzles me somewhat.

Justin


Great car agreed, loved to watch it back in the day, but cannot agree with you on owning one, a "normal" Citroen is bad enough. I grew up travelling to Spain in the '60's in a DS Safari and Palas, complete with swivel lights, a fantastic way to travel, especially with the roads of that time, but when it went wrong...... :eek: For me, very much a car to appreciate, when OTHER people own it!

#43 flat-16

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 14:02

cannot agree with you on owning one, a "normal" Citroen is bad enough

:rotfl:

My stepfather was a Citroen nut. We had a Prestige and a CX Pallas.

When I mention the Prestige, bear in mind we're talking about a car that's substantial in stature, yet has the power-to-weight ratio of 86.78 bhp/ton :rotfl: The words 'skin' and 'rice pudding' spring to mind.

BTW - The first Prestiges had an electrical fault which resulted in several people nearly getting barbecued, including a family friend. Our one developed the same fault, it's a shame the stepfather was able to get out...

Justin

#44 sterling49

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 14:07

Originally posted by flat-16
My stepfather was a Citroen nut. We had a Prestige and a CX Pallas.

When I mention the Prestige, bear in mind we're talking about a car that's substantial in stature, yet has the power-to-weight ratio of 86.78 bhp/ton :rotfl: The words 'skin' and 'rice pudding' spring to mind.

BTW - The first Prestiges had an electrical fault which resulted in several people nearly getting barbecued, including a family friend. Our one developed the same fault, it's a shame the stepfather was able to get out...

Justin


:lol: :lol: :rotfl: The CX Turbo never had that problem......the words torque and steer seem vaguely familiar :eek:

Could you please be a bit more blunt re last paragraph.... :rotfl:

#45 vashlin

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 22:33

Although this is not Citroen related, I thought I would share these two Howden Ganley photos I took in the pits during a lull in practice: Mosport GP 1973

Posted Image


Posted Image


LinC

#46 GAH

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 23:30

For those of you who have inquired about a possible book being written by Howden, I have had the opportunity to read excerpts form the portions of the manuscript he has completed so far. The book begins with Howden's childhood, life in New Zealand, his involvement with cars/racing then his arrival in England to pursue his racing dreams. What I have read so far is very interesting with many great stories about the people and events Howden encountered along the way. The manuscript is a work in progress and when it is completed and published, it will be a book I'm sure any racing fan will enjoy.

#47 flat-16

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 23:54

The likes of Jenks and Mike Hailwood can't be wrong - I guess I just haven't driven the right FWD car.

Any further SM-related discussion would probably be best put in this thread: Jenks and the SM

Howden was fortunate enough to be active during a period in motor sport which was highly visually appealing. I would expect a biography to contain some excellent photos, as well as informing us about the man himself :up:


Justin

#48 Jerry Entin

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 02:57

Posted Image
Here is Howden at Riverside in 1971. Driving the Sid Taylor ran BRM P-167 to a fine 3rd place finish.

#49 Michael Clark

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 05:23

Originally posted by GAH
For those of you who have inquired about a possible book being written by Howden, I have had the opportunity to read excerpts form the portions of the manuscript he has completed so far. The book begins with Howden's childhood, life in New Zealand, his involvement with cars/racing then his arrival in England to pursue his racing dreams. What I have read so far is very interesting with many great stories about the people and events Howden encountered along the way. The manuscript is a work in progress and when it is completed and published, it will be a book I'm sure any racing fan will enjoy.


I too have read a good part of the manuscript and it will be a standout motor racing autobiography for a number of reasons, not least of which being because Howden's journey to F1 is unique - i.e. not the standard FF/FJ/F3>F2>F1 rout, and because it is told without a trace of ego.

I should also add - and it's being written by a racing driver/mechanic/engineer who can write!

We just have to keep encouraging him to complete it!

#50 Jerry Entin

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 13:10

LinC: The fellow sitting in the car with Howden in your picture from Mosport is Tim Schenken. Tim would later be the TI in Tiga. A car company Howden and Tim would form.
all research Howden Ganley.