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Pre-War AAA Big Car Championship top-tens


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#101 fines

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 15:57

Well, I think I now have the points system for the pre-war Eastern and Midwestern AAA circuits sussed... still, NOT the Pacific Coast - that one was always different, and I will need a few more hours of therapy before I tackle that once more :| ...;)

Generally, it's 2.4 points per mile for first place, 1.6 for second, 1.2 for third and 0.8 for fourth, with races of ten miles and more paying 0.4 points per mile for fifth, and races of twenty miles and more 0.2 for sixth.

Apart from the odd irregularity*, that should be it, and the system appears to have been in place for the full period of time, i.e. from 1932 to '41. Further tests are still needed, and will be performed, to iron out those irregularities, and I still can't compile tables for any year, but I'm confident of my findings nonetheless. :)


* e.g. it is possible that consolation events only paid half points.

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#102 fines

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 15:52

I have found a 1935 newspaper article that stated that the AAA held 125 races that year, fourteen more than the year before. So far, I have 122 races in my database for 1935, and 111 for 1934, although a few of them are "shaky", i.e. I do not really know if the races took place at all. Doesn't look too shabby, does it? :smoking: :)

#103 fines

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 17:38

Originally posted by fines
I still can't compile tables for any year

Well, some four weeks and quite a lot of old-fashioned 'hard work' later:

1936 AAA Big Car Championship, Midwestern Circuit

Events

1936-06-07  Roby Speedway				50m   Rex Mays		 Sparks-Weirick/Miller	 37'36.71"   79.76 mph

1936-06-21  Wisconsin State Fair Park	40m   Frank McGurk	 Worley/Miller			 31'45.22"   75.58 mph

1936-07-04  Roby Speedway				50m   Rex Mays		 Sparks-Weirick/Miller	 37'33.72"   79.86 mph

1936-08-22  Illinois State Fairgrounds  100m   Wilbur Shaw	  Thorne/Miller		   1:12'31.58"   82.72 mph

1936-08-23  Wisconsin State Fair Park	25m   Billy Winn	   Winn/Miller			   17'32"	  85.55 mph

1936-08-26  Wisconsin State Fair Park	25m   Tony Willman	 Bagley/Cragar		   * 16'44"	  89.64 mph

1936-08-30  Roby Speedway				45m   Billy Winn	   Winn/Miller			   38'13.87"   70.62 mph

1936-09-20  Roby Speedway				50m   Rex Mays		 Sparks-Weirick/Miller	 37'05.52"   80.87 mph

1936-10-25  Roby Speedway			   100m   (postponed to Nov 1, then cancelled due to rain)  --	--	--



* at the time quoted as 15'44", most certainly a typo





Pos Driver		   Total   R 1  R 2  R 3  R 4  R 5  R 6  R 7  R 8	   E   R   C 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th  FT

 1  Rex Mays		   408   128	-  144	-	-	-	-  136	   3   3   3   3   -   -   -   -   -   1

 2  Wilbur Shaw		310.5  12	-   88  240   16	8	-	-	   5   5   2   1   1   -   -   -   -   -

 3  Chet Gardner	   288	 -	-   72   24   48   12   88   44	   6   6   5   -   2   1   -   1   -   -

 4  Billy Winn		 274	 -	-	-   24   76   42  132	-	   4   4   3   2   -   1   -   -   -   1

 5  Bill Cummings	  232	 -	-	-  128   24   36   62   12	   5   5   3   -   -   2   1   -   -   -

 6  Frank McGurk	   199.5  12  132	-	-	-   21   34	-	   4   4+  4   1   -   -   -   1   1   -

 7  Tony Willman	   192	 -	-	-   48	0   84   48	-	   4   3   3   1   0.3 -   1   -   -   1

 8  Ted Horn		   163.5  24	-	-   21   12	-   17   88	   5   5+  3   -   1   -   -   -   1   1

 9  Frank Brisko	   140	 -	-   16	-	8   12   24   76	   5   5   1   -   -   1   -   -   -   -

10  Emil Andres		136	56	-   44   10	-	-	-   24	   4   4   3   -   -   -   1   1   -   -

11  George Connor	  126	 -	-   18   24   24   56	0	0	   6   5-  2   -   1   -   -   -   1   2

12  Jimmy Snyder	   123	16   36   16   40	-	-   12	-	   5   5   1   -   -   -   -   1   -   -

13  Floyd Roberts	  108   108	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	   1   1   1   -   1   -   -   -   -   -

14  Ted Johnson		103	 -   16	-	0	8	-   24   17	   5   4+  1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

15  Ken Fowler		  98	24	-	-	0   30	-   24	-	   4   4+  -   -   -   1   -   -   -   -

16  Babe Stapp		  96	 0   80   16	-	-	-	-	-	   3   2   1   -   1   -   -   -   -   -

17  George Barringer	90	 -   28   16   80   16	-   16	-	   5   5   3   -   -   -   1   1   -   -

18  Louis Tomei		 76	28	-	-	-	-	-	-   48	   2   2   2   -   -   -   1   1   -   -

19  Tex West			74.5   -   72   12	-	-	-	-	-	   2   2   1   -   -   1   -   -   -   -

20  Frankie Beeder	  72	 -	-	-   16   36	-   16	-	   3   3   1   -   -   -   1   -   -   -

	Doc MacKenzie			 16	-	-  128   12	-	-	-	   3   3   1   -   0.7 -   -   -   -   -

	Duke Nalon				 -	-   64	-   12	-	-	0	   3   2   1   -   -   -   1   -   -   -

	Port de Fraties			-	-	-   12   34   24	-	-	   3   3   2   -   -   -   -   1   -   -

	Johnny Sawyer			 22	-	0	-   24   16	8	-	   5   4   2   -   -   -   -   -   1   -

	Walt Brown				64	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	   1   1   1   -   -   1   -   -   -   -

  * Ben Musick				 -   56	8	-	-	-	-	-	   2   2   1   -   -   -   1   -   -   -

	Ray Pixley				 -   16   24	-	-   24	0	-	   4   3   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Floyd Davis				-	-   12	4   12   34	-	-	   4   4   1   -   -   -   -   1   -   -

	Chuck Tabor				-	-	-   20   13	8   12	-	   4   4   3   -   -   -   -   -   2   -

	Myron Fohr				 -   24	0	-	0	-	-   24	   4   2   1   -   -   -   -   -   1   -

	Joe Thorne				 -	-	-	0	4   12   12	-	   4   4   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Johnny van Rossen		  -	-	-	-	-	-	-   22	   1   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   1   -

	Cowboy O'Rourke			-	-	-	-	-	-	-   16	   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Eddie Beaver			   -   12	-	-	-	-	-	-	   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Mauri Rose				 -	-	-   12	-	-	-	-	   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Henry Banks				8	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Al Putnam				  -	-	-	-	-	8	-	-	   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Freddie Winnai			 0	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Verne Franke			   -	-	0	-	-	-	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

	Lou Webb				   -	-	0	-	-	-	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -



* alias "Bill Morris"
Please note that some of the totals don't add up correctly yet!!!

The top twenty in points (i.e. position, driver, total points and number of races) are from various sources, mainly a Chicago Daily Tribune article of October 25 in 1936. I have compiled the rest of the table from my own database and the scoring system outlined above. There's all sorts of imperfections coming into play here, not least of all poor legibility of old (microfilmed) newspaper articles!!!

To wit, only six of the top twenty driver points totals match, namely those of Mays, Gardner, Winn, Roberts, Stapp and Tomei - you'll notice that's three of the top four scorers, so it's not too bad. The differences are, in detail: Shaw (+ 53.5), Cummings (+ 30), McGurk (- 0.5), Willman (- 12), Horn (- 1.5), Brisko (- 4), Andres (- 2), Connor (- 4), Snyder (- 3), Johnson (- 38), Fowler (- 20), Barringer (+ 66), West (+ 9.5), Beeder (- 4) - mostly minor, probably due to some heat finishes that I couldn't find, or perhaps typos. Overall it doesn't make much difference to the outcome, except for Ted Johnson and George Barringer - I am suspecting a relief driver scenario at the Springfield 100-miler, the point-heavy race that I wasn't able to find much on at all, actually!

Also, notice that the calculated point totals of MacKenzie (156) and Nalon (76) would put them into the top twenty, if correct. In the case of the former, it is possible that he was not listed because of his demise - as mentioned earlier, old points tables are sometimes a bit quirky in that regard! As for Nalon, he may have gone "outlaw" again before the end of the season, although I don't have any info on that - he was actually entered for the (cancelled) October 25 race. Incidentally, the number of races in the table are from my research, differences to the newspaper article are indicated (+ or -), and may be down to faulty research on my part, or typos again. The number of Fast Times don't add up because of missing info, and some of it is suspect anyway!!!

As speculated on before, there appear to be some modifications necessary to the scoring system posted above - I'm still not sure if consies paid full points, and longer races appear to have paid points to 7th and 8th place finishers. The further 'down the line', the more difficult gets the research! Most sources simply ignore the backmarkers, or list the names in order without the correlative placing, so it's even more subject to errors and omissions than already usual! :|

I will go into a bit more detail in subsequent posts, and will endeavour to put "the story of the championship" into the context of the season. Some may have noticed some oddities in the table, no?;) Well, the Midwestern Circuit was always "a bit peculiar", which will be in need of a few explanations, but the sheer paucity of events made it possible to compile this table in the first place, so no complaints from my side! :D

#104 GILMORE

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:18

Originally posted by fines
WARA (Western Auto Racing Association - WA, OR, CA), possibly Washington Auto Racing Association
1929 Swede Smith
1930 Howard Wills
1931 Mario Bianchi
1932 Mario Bianchi (?)
1933 Art Scovell
1934 Woody Woodford
1935 Jimmie Wilburn
1936 Frank Wearne
1938 Adolph Dans
1939 Chick Barbo (?)


Hello, longtime lurker here. I have registered finally and after awaiting activation.... I can now post. :wave:

My interest is mainly from the years 1930-1941. I am looking for photos and info on Gilmore Oil Co sponsored cars; Blu Green Special, Red Lion Special, Gilmore Special, Gilmore Speedway Special, Gilmore Lion Special, Gilmore Lion Cub Special, etc.... Their co-sponsored cars can be detected too for they'd have their lion logos somewhere on car body. I have several albums full of photos and programs from 1930-1941 that I am always looking for more info on. Any help I can get is very much appreciated.

Anyways, I was looking for info on Mario Bianchi yesterday morning and was directed to this thread. Below is a link to a photo I have of him, I believe, standing behind the Red Lion Special at Portland Speedway (Date/Year?, maybe 1932). Does anybody have any more info on or pictures of him?

Posted Image

Edited by GILMORE, 17 September 2009 - 02:23.


#105 ReWind

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:45

From googling I can offer this which leads to the following dates from SSDI:
b. 17 April 1898, d. April 1975 (76 or 77 years old).

#106 GILMORE

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:49

Thank you.

I almost found that one actually. Googling brought me to this site ... http://befastpast.bl...-car-owner.html ... but I wasn't smart enough to notice the Mario Bianchi link on the right. I would have seen this 1934 Red Lion Special photo ... http://befastpast.bl...l/Mario Bianchi ... and the article you supplied. :up:

#107 GILMORE

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 04:39

Originally posted by fines

Date		D  CR  St  Venue		 TT   RD  Winner				Team/Owner			Chassis			   Engine				Time



1933-02-26  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Bob Carey			 Joe Marks			 Marks SC-33		   Miller 255			?

1933-03-05  P   ?  CA  Imperial	  D1   60  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White				 Miller 220			?

1933-03-19  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   95  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White				 Miller 220			1:09'44"

1933-04-02  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White				 Miller 220			?

1933-04-16  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Babe Stapp			?					 ?					 ?					 ?


Missing is the March 26 100 lap race at Ascot. Bob Carey won in the Marks Miller setting a new record of 45 minutes, 41.81 seconds... Triplett-2nd... Chet Gardner-3rd... Sam Palmer-4th... Babe Stapp-5th

For April 2nd (Bob Carey's last race)- Carey won the first 25 lap heat in 11 minutes, 8 seconds. Triplett won the second 25 lap heat in 15 minutes, 21.40 seconds. Triplett won the 40 lap main event in 17 minutes, 57 seconds.

Below is one of a dozen or so photos I purchased from the grandson of Joe Marks. March 26 Helmet Dash victory kiss from Celeste Edwards...

Posted Image

Edited by GILMORE, 17 September 2009 - 02:23.


#108 fines

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:31

:clap: Welcome, Jeremy! :clap:

Boy, does this thread need rejuvenation? :D;)

About the Mario Bianchi pic, I would believe it to be a few years younger, 1935 would be my guess. I have seen Mario in a #36 "Red Lion" in a roster of 1935 Ascot cars; also the car looks a bit too "classy" for me to have run in the Northwest in 1932 - no disrespect meant, but the money simply wasn't there!

Two more pictures of the same car can be found in the late Don Radbruch's "Dirt Track Auto Racing 1919-1941", p260: dated May 25, 1934, the car carries #2 and the "Gilmore Special" name, and the paint scheme is more reminiscent of the later Bill White/Shorty Cantlon "Cocktail Hour Cigarette" and "Sullivan & O'Brien" cars at Indy, which was quite popular during the latter part of the thirties.

#109 fines

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:38

Originally posted by GILMORE
Missing is the March 26 100 lap race at Ascot. Bob Carey won in the Marks Miller setting a new record of 45 minutes, 41.81 seconds... Triplett-2nd... Chet Gardner-3rd... Sam Palmer-4th... Babe Stapp-5th

For April 2nd (Bob Carey's last race)- Carey won the first 25 lap heat in 11 minutes, 8 seconds. Triplett won the second 25 lap heat in 15 minutes, 21.40 seconds. Triplett won the 40 lap main event in 17 minutes, 57 seconds.

Below is one of a dozen or so photos I purchased from the grandson of Joe Marks. March 26 Helmet Dash victory kiss from Celeste Edwards...

Ahhh... you don't get me that easily! :D

I have March 26 as the date for a rain-out at Oakland, and chances are the boys all towed north only to find out they went in vain! In fact, the data you post for March 26 matches what I have for February 26, too much of a coincidence?;)

1933, Feb 26, AAA Pacific Coast Championship round 5, Legion Ascot Speedway, Alhambra (CA)
100 laps of 0.625 mile oiled dirt track
1 Bob Carey, 45'48.1" ® -- 45'43.8" (?), 45'41.8" (???)
2 Ernie Triplett
3 Chet Gardner
4 Sam Palmer
5 Babe Stapp
6 Al Gordon
7 Stubby Stubblefield
8 Woody Woodford, 98 laps (engine)
Fast Time: Triplett, 25.81" ®
Helmet Dash: Carey, 52.40" ®

Points: 1 Carey 143.39, 2 Triplett 133.30, 3 Wilbur Shaw 72.38, 4 Al Theisen 50.57, 5 Stapp 39.31, 6 Bill Cummings 34.60, 7 Gardner 27.40, 8 Chris Vest 24.19, 9 Kelly Petillo 23.91, 10 Palmer 23.49

But anyway, thanks very much for your contributions, all and everything is welcome! :up: :up: :up:

#110 GILMORE

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 15:23

Hey, I got the April 2nd info right... 2- 25's and a 40 lap.

As for my March 26 mistake, I was given bad info from an April, 1933 Speedway magazine article...

Posted Image

#111 fines

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 15:59

Interesting! I still think it to be an error, as I have my info from contemporary newspapers, and it would be odd for them to miss a race, wouldn't it? Does the rest of the race info match what I posted about the Feb 26 event?

P.S. Yes, you're right about the "triple feature" on April 2. :up:

#112 GILMORE

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 16:02

Now that I have my dates wrong for some of my Bob Carey photos. Need some help identifying these first two.

Feb 12?, Mar 19?, other???...

Posted Image

April 2?, 16?...

Posted Image

April 16...

Posted Image

April 16...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by GILMORE, 17 September 2009 - 02:24.


#113 GILMORE

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 16:04

Originally posted by fines
Interesting! I still think it to be an error, as I have my info from contemporary newspapers, and it would be odd for them to miss a race, wouldn't it? Does the rest of the race info match what I posted about the Feb 26 event?

P.S. Yes, you're right about the "triple feature" on April 2. :up:


I believe your info is right. I have found "misprints" in these old mags before.

#114 fines

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 16:46

Difficult to date these pictures! I believe the car ran for the first time on February 5 at Oakland, winning the main event there, then the following week at Ascot (retired). February 19 was a rain-out at Oakland, and then came the Ascot win already posted. March saw three races, Imperial/El Centro on the 5th, but I'm not sure Carey and the team went there, then an Ascot event postponed from the 12th to the 19th (retired) and the mentioned rain-out at Oakland. Then two more Ascot events (April 2 and 16), with a free weekend in between.

That means we're looking at five Ascot races, and one each at Oakland and Imperial, plus a possible Oakland appearance before the rains on March 26! I've had one of the latter confuse me before, there's a picture of Bill Cummings sitting in "Poison Lil" with #6 at Oakland, trouble is he never raced that car with that number at that track, only at Ascot, or #5!!! Caused me a lot of head scratching, and a wrong theory in desperation! In the end, I found out that a race at Oakland was rained out after qualifications had already begun, so that picture was probably taken then - phew!

Notice how the lion is pale in the first pic, and in a different position in the third? I have seen another pic of it with the lion in the same position as pic #3, but without the "LION HEAD" legend (helmet different, too)! That already makes three different configurations for five events (I'm pretty sure all are from Ascot)!

#115 fines

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 16:56

Originally posted by GILMORE
Feb 12?, Mar 19?, other???...

Posted Image

Btw, that are Harry Meyer, E. J. Sanders, Louie Meyer and Dave Koetzla behind the car. Second picture: Harry Meyer (?), Joe Marks and Louie Meyer. But I bet you knew that already...;)

#116 GILMORE

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 22:38

:up:

I've helped out a couple Louis & Eddie Meyer collectors in the past and one of them emailed some of those photos to Louis "Sonny" Meyer, Jr. I knew most of the info he gave already but was still excited to receive the email from him, a legend himself. :love: Sonny's response is below...

"The Gilmore # 6 Car was built by my Dad. He sold the car to Joe Marks. Dad was building two new cars for the 1933 Indy 500. One for himself to drive and the other for Bob Carey to drive. My Dad was helping on the car as he couldnt drive due to a broken collar bone and left shoulder (notice how his shirt is out in front because of the brace under it). When my Dad went thru the fence at Ascot and couldnt drive, he hired Carey to drive for him. April 16, 1933 Carey was killed at Ascot and this could be the picture the morning of the day he crashed. Dad healed up enough and went on to win the Indy 500 for the second time in May 1933."

Am I correct that the '33 Marks Indy 500 entry was the second car he built and that was the car Carey was to drive that year?

Here a some more Joe Marks photos.. Purchased several of the #3 car at Indy, all have Wilcox in the car though. Last one is from Rose's 2nd at Detroit...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

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Posted Image

Edited by GILMORE, 17 September 2009 - 02:25.


#117 fines

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 23:28

Originally posted by GILMORE
"The Gilmore # 6 Car was built by my Dad. He sold the car to Joe Marks. Dad was building two new cars for the 1933 Indy 500. One for himself to drive and the other for Bob Carey to drive. My Dad was helping on the car as he couldnt drive due to a broken collar bone and left shoulder (notice how his shirt is out in front because of the brace under it). When my Dad went thru the fence at Ascot and couldnt drive, he hired Carey to drive for him. April 16, 1933 Carey was killed at Ascot and this could be the picture the morning of the day he crashed. Dad healed up enough and went on to win the Indy 500 for the second time in May 1933."

Am I correct that the '33 Marks Indy 500 entry was the second car he built and that was the car Carey was to drive that year?

Well, "building" the cars is a bit of an exaggeration, I'm afraid - "race preparation" is the word we'd be using today. In those days, that included a total teardown of chassis and engine - well, not too different from today, actually, except that the drivers usually did it themselves. Imagine Lewis Hamilton sitting in front of a million pieces of his McLaren/Mercedes-Benz! :lol:

Lou Meyer was preparing two cars, the 1931 Miller of Ralph Hepburn, who was still nursing his 1932 New Years Day Oakland injuries (though he would eventually drive another car at Indy) for himself, and the 1931 Meyer/Miller, the car he had driven to fourth in '31, and Carey again to fourth in '32, for Carey. After Carey's death, Howdy Wilcox was selected to drive the car, qualified it for the second row and was then disqualified for medical reasons. Rose stepped in, but retired after a stormy drive.

Thanks for the pictures! :up:

#118 GILMORE

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 04:35

Hey fines, I started my own Gilmore ?'s thread so I will not ruin this one anymore with all my questions. :eek: :)

http://forums.autosp...threadid=107033

#119 fines

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 20:56

:clap: I've managed to crack the Pacific Coast code! :clap: :clap: :smoking:

Perhaps the most complicated scoring formula devised, certainly for its time, but I think I have now managed to find out how it worked, at least for the top finishing positions, and for the year 1933! I am almost sure it wasn't changed during all seven years of the championship, but I'll need to check a few items first... If there's interest, I'll post my findings in the afternoon... :smoking:

:|

Seems my joy was a bit premature... :blush:

Last night I thought I had it cracked, with just a few minor irregularities that might have been down to typos or even miscalculations, but when I checked a few more race results this morning... :mad: IT'S ALL GONE!!! CHAOS REIGNS AGAIN!!! AARRRGHH!!!!!

Sigh! Sometimes I do believe they really drew these figures out of a hat... :lol:

[shakes his head in disbelief...]

Well, eight months on (gosh, where's the time? :|), I am still not much further with the Pacific Coast Drivers Championship points, although I know by now why the scoring is so unpredictable - it's closely coupled to the purse breakdown, and as such it is subject to change, quite simply! The purse structure may stay the same for months, but then also change from race to race, so that without detailed info it is impossible to reconstruct the standings! :( I believe that studying the AAA microfilm reels will finally yield a lot of that data, but especially for the very early races the outlook is rather bleak. Oh well...

On the other hand, I have also good news, because I managed to discover how the Owners Championship worked - it's actually very simple, and was the same for all races, completely disregarding the different race distances, and only counting main event results:

1st place - 40 pts,
2nd place - 20 pts,
3rd place - 10 pts,
4th place - 5 pts,
and 5th place - 2½ pts.

Unfortunately, finding out who drove what is not that simple, and owners point standings are almost as rare as hen's teeth or rocking horse droppings, but with a bit of detective work and lots of sleuthing, coupled with the indispensable aid of copies from Ascot programme pages provided by Jeremy GILMORE :up: :up: :up:, I managed to reconstruct the final points table of the...

1932 AAA Pacific Coast Owners Championships
Pos Car  Owner	 Total	1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48

 1  # 6  Sparks (n)  605	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  - 10  - 20 20 10  5  5 40  - 20  -  - 40  - 10 40 40  - 10 40  - 40 10 10
	# 6  Sparks (o)		10  - 40 20 10  -  - 40 40  -  - 10 40  - 20  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
 2  # 1  White (n)   597½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10 40 40
	# 1  White (o)		 40 40  -  - 20  - 20  2½ 2½20  -  - 10 20  -  - 40 40  -  -  -  -  - 20 20 20 10  5 20 20 40  - 40  -  -  2½ 2½ 2½ -  - 20 20  -  - 10  -  -  -
 3  #19  De Paolo	582½   2½ 5  -  -  - 20  -  -  -  - 20  -  -  2½ -  -  2½ -  5  -  -  -  - 40 40  - 40 40 40  -  - 20 20 40 40  5  - 20 20 20  - 40  - 20 40 20 20  -
 4  # 5  Ward		535	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10 10 20  -  5 40 40 20 20 20 20 40  5 40  5  - 10  -  2½ - 40 20  -  - 10  - 40  -  - 40  2½ 5  - 20  5 20  5  - 20
 5  #44  Jacobs	  260	- 20 20 40  -  -  - 10  -  2½ 2½ -  2½ -  2½ -  -  -  2½ - 10 40 10  -  - 40  -  -  2½ -  -  -  5  -  - 20 10  5  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5
 6  # 9  Haskell	 255	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ 2½ -  -  -  2½ -  2½
	#48  Blauvelt		   -  -  -  -  -  -  - 20 10 40 40  -  5 10  - 20  -  -  -  -  -  - 20  -  5  -  5 10  5  2½10 10 10  -  5  -  5 10  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
 7  # 2  Gardner	 247½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5 10  -  - 40  5 20  -  - 10  -  5  2½ -  - 10  -  5  -  5  -  - 20 40  5  5 10  5 40  2½ -  -  2½ -
 8  # 8  Quinn	   117½   -  -  - 10  -  -  5  - 20  -  - 40  - 40  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
 9  #15  Meyer	   112½  20  2½ -  5 40  - 40  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
10  # 7  McClurg	  67½   -  -  -  -  2½ 5  2½ -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  5 10  -  - 10  - 20  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -
11  # 3  Tarbet	   60	-  -  -  -  - 10  -  -  -  -  5  2½20  - 10  -  - 10  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
12  #12  Deulin	   40	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  2½20 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
13  #23  Bielch	   25	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -
	# 2  Harrison		   - 10  2½ -  -  2½ -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
14  #28  Duray		17½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½10  2½ -  -  -
15  #18  Edwards	  12½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	#18  Moore			  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
16  #14  Vieaux	   10	-  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
17  #21  Rasor		10	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
18  #30  Martinson	10	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -
19  #54  Blomgren	  5	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
20  #10  Cantlon	   5	-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -

	#28  Christensen		-  -  -  2½ - 40 10  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	# 9  Fox				-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ 5  5 10 40  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	# 9  Ward			   5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	#39  Stricker		   -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	#	?				  -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	#17  Monson			 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	#	?				  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	#	?				  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
	#	?				  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -


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#120 fines

fines
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Posted 03 May 2009 - 21:09

:well: Hm, well, yes... I actually expected that... I started this table several weeks ago, before the new software "hit" us, and it doesn't really work out like I planned it! Maybe I should have arranged the points in columns instead of lines, but I was not going to start all over again. Hm. :well:

Anyway, a few words of explanation: the top 20 positions are from the programme of the last race of the season, with me editing in the points of that last race. Below are a few more entries that didn't make the top twenty, although you will note that the first two (#28 Christensen and #9 Ward/Fox) should have done so! I have no real explanation for their omission from the final table, except that they both disappeared from the Championship around mid-season, but then again Louis Meyer's #15 did the same! Also, you will need to understand that the Championship was for owner's entries, rather than real cars, hence the (n) and (o) suffices to the #6 Sparks and #1 White entries - both started the season with an "old" car (o), and finished with a "new" one (n).

A few more idiosyncrasies: #30 Martinson is actually the same car as #9 Ward/Fox, but with a new owner mid-season, so that points were allocated seperately. Yet, #9 Haskell was the former #48 Blauvelt, but kept the points scored by the first owner, and the same goes for #2 Harrison/#23 Bielch, #18 Moore/Edwards and, intriguingly, #9 Fox which was #9 Ward in the first race(s) of the season! Somewhat less controversally, #28 Duray also ran as #64 Duray, initially - it's Leon Duray's Miller, actually, that departed in August for Italy and the Monza Grand Prix, and upon returning to California in October received a new coat of paint, and a new number!

Finally, it should perhaps be pointed out that the Owners Championship was the real highlight of the season's final race, as the Drivers Championship had already been clinched a couple of weeks earlier by Ernie Triplett, despite the fact that 100 points were at stake for the winner of this race, the most ever for a Pacific Coast Championship round! But there were still three cars in the running for the Owners title, and three other cars were even more closely bunched fighting for 5th place. Leading the chase was the #6 Sparks, the "defending Champion", but even second place in the race would not have been enough if #19 De Paolo won, and the latter (driven by Wilbur Shaw) led the race for the first 150 of 200 laps, except for a period after the inevitable pit stop! Then, the whole thing ended in tears as Al Gordon spun the #23 Bielch in Turn 1, trapping Shaw who had no alternative but to crash into it, nearly taking Triplett in #1 White out with him - and that wasn't even the end of it!

Now Triplett led, and was in a position to clinch the title for his owner, too, provided Bill Cummings in the Sparks couldn't finish the long grind in the top four, but instead "Wild Bill" was "putting on the coals", and trying to wrest the lead from Ernie, until a puncture put him into the guard rail, eight laps from the finish! :eek: :eek: Cummings managed to steer his racer to the pits, had the tyre changed and stormed off again, narrowly catching Carl Ryder before the end to finish third - phew! The fight for 5th place in the championship was equally close and dramatic, with Chet Gardner laying down the gauntlet by qualifying his own #2 for pole position, then losing out within seconds of the start by crashing and flipping in the first turn! :o Incidentally, the overturned racer was left in its position for the rest of the race, and provided an interesting background for the photographers when snapping pics of the Shaw/Gordon incident, over an hour later! Now the decision lay between #44 Jacobs, driven by Ryder, and #9 Haskell (Stubby Stubblefield), and whoever finished ahead would take the spot, but with both running in close company for nearly the full distance the issue wasn't decided until the very last lap - 11,000 spectators simply ate it up! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Edited by fines, 03 May 2009 - 22:08.


#121 ensign14

ensign14
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Posted 03 May 2009 - 22:33

:well: Hm, well, yes... I actually expected that... I started this table several weeks ago, before the new software "hit" us, and it doesn't really work out like I planned it! Maybe I should have arranged the points in columns instead of lines, but I was not going to start all over again. Hm. :well:

Seems to work OK, other than the width, but it's more familiar this way around than in columns.

The Christensen and Fox entries may have been forgotten by the programme editors? More difficult to forget Meyer as an Indy winner. Plus if Martinson had taken over the Fox car it would be obvious that Fox was no longer in the points battle. And there were new numbers 28 and 9, so it would have confused.

Great work though fines. How big were owners' championships compared to drivers'? It's also funny how many races counted for the regional titles when the national was down to a couple of races.

#122 fines

fines
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Posted 03 May 2009 - 22:51

How big were owners' championships compared to drivers'?

How big? I'd guess only the owners themselves cared at all, and then only those who were "in the hunt"! :D When I said 11,000 spectators ate it up I was refering to the spectacular and dramatic race! ;)

Good point about the numbers being reused, and the programme editors perhaps trying to avoid confusion!

#123 fines

fines
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Posted 04 May 2009 - 08:02

1932 AAA Pacific Coast Owners Championships
Pos Car  Owner     Total    1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 1  # 6  Sparks (n)  605    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  - 10  - 20 20 10  5  5 40  - 20  -  - 40  - 10 40 40  - 10 40  - 40 10 10    # 6  Sparks (o)        10  - 40 20 10  -  - 40 40  -  - 10 40  - 20  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 2  # 1  White (n)   597½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10 40 40    # 1  White (o)         40 40  -  - 20  - 20  2½ 2½20  -  - 10 20  -  - 40 40  -  -  -  -  - 20 20 20 10  5 20 20 40  - 40  -  -  2½ 2½ 2½ -  - 20 20  -  - 10  -  -  - 3  #19  De Paolo    582½   2½ 5  -  -  - 20  -  -  -  - 20  -  -  2½ -  -  2½ -  5  -  -  -  - 40 40  - 40 40 40  -  - 20 20 40 40  5  - 20 20 20  - 40  - 20 40 20 20  - 4  # 5  Ward        535    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10 10 20  -  5 40 40 20 20 20 20 40  5 40  5  - 10  -  2½ - 40 20  -  - 10  - 40  -  - 40  2½ 5  - 20  5 20  5  - 20 5  #44  Jacobs      260    - 20 20 40  -  -  - 10  -  2½ 2½ -  2½ -  2½ -  -  -  2½ - 10 40 10  -  - 40  -  -  2½ -  -  -  5  -  - 20 10  5  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5 6  # 9  Haskell     255    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ 2½ -  -  -  2½ -  2½    #48  Blauvelt           -  -  -  -  -  -  - 20 10 40 40  -  5 10  - 20  -  -  -  -  -  - 20  -  5  -  5 10  5  2½10 10 10  -  5  -  5 10  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 7  # 2  Gardner     247½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5 10  -  - 40  5 20  -  - 10  -  5  2½ -  - 10  -  5  -  5  -  - 20 40  5  5 10  5 40  2½ -  -  2½ - 8  # 8  Quinn       117½   -  -  - 10  -  -  5  - 20  -  - 40  - 40  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 9  #15  Meyer       112½  20  2½ -  5 40  - 40  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -10  # 7  McClurg      67½   -  -  -  -  2½ 5  2½ -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  5 10  -  - 10  - 20  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -11  # 3  Tarbet       60    -  -  -  -  - 10  -  -  -  -  5  2½20  - 10  -  - 10  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -12  #12  Deulin       40    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  2½20 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -13  #23  Bielch       25    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -    # 2  Harrison           - 10  2½ -  -  2½ -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -14  #28  Duray        17½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½10  2½ -  -  -15  #18  Edwards      12½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -    #18  Moore              -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -16  #14  Vieaux       10    -  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -17  #21  Rasor        10    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -18  #30  Martinson    10    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - 10  -  -  -  -  -  -19  #54  Blomgren      5    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -20  #10  Cantlon       5    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  5  -  -  - ?  # 9  Fox          67½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ 5  5 10 40  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -    # 9  Ward               5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - ?  #28  Christensen  57½   -  -  -  2½ - 40 10  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - ?  #39  Stricker      5    -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - ?  #    ?             5    -  -  -  -  5  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - ?  #17  Monson        2½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - ?  #    ?             2½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - ?  #    ?             2½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - ?  #    ?             2½   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2½ -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Is that better?

#124 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:07

A few car histories:

# 6 Sparks (n)

The famous "Poison Lil": new for...

Read on at http://www.oldracing...-pacific-coast/

Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:09.


#125 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:26

# 6 Sparks (o)

New for Wilbur...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:09.


#126 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:52

# 1 White (n)

New for Ernie...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:09.


#127 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:57

# 1 White (o)

New in September of...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:10.


#128 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:16

#19 De Paolo

New for Lou...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:10.


#129 David McKinney

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:26

Re Sparks #6 Poison Lil

You might have said it somewhere else, but was the car owned by Sparks and Weirick from new until 1936, and then by Weirick alone until 1949?

#130 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:30

# 5 Ward

New for Arvol...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:10.


#131 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:33

Re Sparks #6 Poison Lil

You might have said it somewhere else, but was the car owned by Sparks and Weirick from new until 1936, and then by Weirick alone until 1949?

That is the way I understand it. It's not always obvious, as ownership is sometimes assigned to one or the other, and sometimes to "Sparks & Weirick" in the early years. But from 1937 onwards, Art Sparks was working for (and sometimes against :D) Joel Thorne (Thorne Engineering Co.), so Weirick would be the sole owner.

Edited by fines, 04 May 2009 - 10:35.


#132 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:01

#44 Jacobs

Built by Johnny...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:10.


#133 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:25

#48 Blauvelt
# 9 Haskell

New for Wilbur....

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:11.


#134 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:59

# 2 Gardner

Started life as...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:11.


#135 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:36

# 8 Quinn

New in February...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:11.


#136 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 14:31

#15 Meyer

New October...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:11.


#137 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 14:48

# 7 McClurg

New October...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:12.


#138 fines

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 15:17

# 3 Tarbet

Originally built as...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:12.


#139 fines

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 08:31

#12 Deulin

Possibly built in...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:12.


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#140 fines

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 08:50

# 2/23 Harrison
#23 Bielch

Originally a...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:12.


#141 fines

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 09:43

#64/28 Duray

Originally a...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:13.


#142 fines

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:07

#18 Moore
#18 Edwards

Very little...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:13.


#143 fines

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:30

#14 Vieaux

Apparently built in...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:13.


#144 fines

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:55

#21 Rasor

Possibly built in early...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:13.


#145 fines

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 15:03

# 9 Ward
# 9 Fox
#30 Martinson

New in July...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:14.


#146 fines

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 15:42

#54 Blomgren

I know next to nothing about the Blomgren, but I'd guess that it was built in 1931, and sold to the Zottarelli brothers in early '33, and probably used up in the West Coast minor leagues.

#10 Cantlon

Originally a...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:14.


#147 fines

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 16:10

#28 Christensen

Apparently built in...

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Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:15.


#148 fines

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 18:52

AAA Big Car main event wins and "winning miles", excluding "Class B" events, 1920-55:

Driver			  wins  miles	years

Rex Mays			 71   3451	1933-49
Tommy Milton		 15   3401¼   1920-25
Jimmy Murphy		 16   3290	1920-24
Wilbur Shaw		  20   2830½   1929-40
Louie Meyer		   8   2250	1928-36
Mauri Rose		   23   2209	1931-48
Pete de Paolo		 9   2095	1925-27
Ernie Triplett	   40   1979	1929-34
Tony Bettenhausen	23   1950	1941-53
Bill Cummings		21   1786¼   1930-34
Ted Horn			 89   1778¼   1934-48
Frank Lockhart	   16   1737½   1925-27
Johnnie Parsons	  17   1696	1948-53
Kelly Petillo		17   1570½   1932-35
Jimmy Bryan		  30   1562	1951-55
Al Gordon			25   1490	1932-36
Bill Holland		 63   1470½   1938-53
Troy Ruttman		 49   1416	1949-52
Ralph de Palma	   40   1374	1920-31
Billy Winn		   53   1292½   1930-38
Tommy Hinnershitz	95   1244	1936-55
Bill Vukovich		 4   1200	1952-54
Chet Gardner		 28   1162½   1926-38
Fred Frame		   25   1145½   1927-32
Ray Keech			 6   1085½   1927-29
Bob Sweikert		 18   1030	1953-55
Eddie Hearne		  8   1015	1920-23
Bennie Hill		   5   1000	1922-26
Harry Hartz		   6	970	1922-26
Shorty Cantlon	   13	947½   1926-34
Billy Arnold		  5	926¼   1929-31
Bob Sall			 50	862	1931-41
Floyd Roberts		 9	861½   1934-38
Bob Carey			16	859	1931-33
Duke Nalon		   29	785	1937-41
Earl Cooper		   4	750	1921-26
Francis Quinn		19	682½   1929-31
Lee Wallard		   9	682½   1939-51
Babe Stapp		   13	681½   1924-39
Joie Chitwood		44	664	1939-47
Ira Vail			 26	658	1920-28
Louis Schneider	   3	656	1927-31
Walt Faulkner		 3	650	1950-51
George Souders		5	647	1925-28
Roscoe Sarles		 3	625	1920-21
Gaston Chevrolet	  2	600	   1920
Chuck Stevenson	   4	600	1952-54
Tony Willman		 27	586½   1931-41
George Robson		 6	580	   1946
Lou Moore			 8	571¼   1927-31
Stubby Stubblefield  13	571¼   1929-32
Johnny Hannon		19	519	1933-35
Red Shafer			5	518½   1922-33
Cliff Woodbury		5	512½   1927-29
Harlan Fengler		2	500	1923-24
Bob McDonogh		  2	500	   1925
Doc MacKenzie		23	478	1934-36
Mike Nazaruk		 19	465	1950-55
Dave Lewis			2	449½   1926-27
Myron Fohr			4	433	1948-49
Johnny Mantz		 19	421¼   1948-50
Manuel Ayulo		  2	400	   1954
Jack McGrath		  4	400	1950-53
Jimmy Sharp		  15	392½   1929-30
Les Spangler		  9	387½	  1932
Leon DUray			3	381¼   1926-27
Jimmy Davies		  5	350	1949-54
Frank Elliott		 2	350	1922-25
Mel Kenealy		  14	348	1928-30
Bill Schindler	   18	326	1938-52
Floyd Davis		   5	325	1934-41
Maynard Clark		 8	300	1933-35
Tazio Nuvolari		1	300	   1936
Bernd Rosemeyer	   1	300	   1937
Joe Thomas			2	300	1921-22
Duane Carter		 19	299	1950-55
Johnny Thomson	   13	295	1953-55
Mel Hansen			5	288	1948-49
Sam Hanks			 3	283	1953-54
Mark Light		   22	282	1938-51
Dutch Baumann		 4	279	1927-29
Slim Corum			1	277½	  1924
Arvol Brunmier		9	262½   1930-32
Emil Andres		   5	260	1933-48
Paul Russo			5	252½   1950-53
Earl Devore		   1	250	   1926
Pat Flaherty		  1	250	   1955
Bryan Saulpaugh	  10	242½   1931-32
Pat O'Connor		 13	238	1953-55
Walt May			  6	230½   1929-30
Frank Farmer		  3	225	   1930
Red Fetterman		 1	225	   1921
Al Theisen			9	224¼   1932-34
Joe Boyer			 1	222½	  1924
Sam Ross			  3	210	   1931
Howdy Wilcox		  4	207½   1921-23
Bill Spence		   4	206¼   1926-29
Frankie Bailey	   13	200	1936-38
Freddie Winnai		4	195½   1927-29
Vic Nauman		   12	187½   1938-41
Vern Orenduff		12	185	1934-37
Jimmy Snyder		  5	185	1936-38
Bert Karnatz		  5	175	1928-31
Spider Webb		  16	166½   1947-50
Eddie Sachs		   6	166¼   1952-55
Bill Albertson		8	165	1921-30
Speed Hinkley		 3	162½   1929-31
Ira Hall			  7	160	1931-34
Ben Shaw			  8	160	1934-37
Duke Dinsmore		 4	159	1940-50
Frankie Beeder	   10	156	1936-38
Harris Insinger	   8	152½   1932-35
Rodger Ward		   2	151	   1953
Walt Brown			5	150	1939-48
Fred Comer			1	150	   1925
Gene Haustein		 3	150	1930-32
Joe James			 9	147½   1950-52
Bob Robinson		  4	145	1927-30
Hal Cole			  4	139	1935-37
Johnny Sawyer		 6	135½   1929-34
George Connor		 3	131	1937-46
Lou Unser			10	127	1934-53
Deacon Litz		   3	125	   1929
Walt Ader			 5	124½   1946-47
Fred Luelling		 3	119	1923-24
Joe Sostilio		  7	117½   1952-53
Larry Crockett		4	115	1953-54
Johnny Kreiger		4	115	1929-30
Lloyd Vieaux		  4	115	1932-34
Nick Martino		  4	112½   1929-32
Ken Fowler			6	110	1934-35
Sam Hoffman		   3	110	1929-33
Charley van Acker	 2	110	1946-47
Johnny Ulesky		 7	105	1938-39
Freddie Agabashian	1	100	   1949
Bobby Ball			1	100	   1952
Henry Banks		   1	100	   1950
Wally Campbell		8	100	1953-54
Bill Chittum		  1	100	   1929
Jimmy Gibbons		 8	100	1948-49
Sam Palmer			3	100	1932-33
Howard Taylor		 1	100	   1928
Ed Winfield		   1	100	   1927
Johnny Gerber		 8	 95	1925-33
Ernie McCoy		   6	 90	1952-54
Gus Schrader		  4	 90	1931-33
Buddie Rusch		  5	 89	1939-41
Glenn Shultz		  7	 87½   1923-33
Swede Smith		   2	 87½	  1930
Herb Balmer		   3	 85	1933-34
Tommy Mattson		 5	 82½   1947-48
Al Rogers			 6	 77	1940-51
Bill Heisler		  2	 75	   1929
Mel McKee			 2	 75	1930-31
Carl Ryder			3	 75	1931-32
Hank Rogers		   6	 72½   1941-52
Herman Schurch		4	 70	1928-30
Len Duncan			3	 65	   1939
Norm Batten		   2	 63	   1925
Frank Wearne		  3	 62½   1935-37
Tommy Dawson		  2	 60	1923-27
Al Herman			 2	 60	1954-55
Andy Linden		   4	 60	1950-55
Bill Mackey		   2	 60	1949-50
Henry Turgeon		 2	 60	1927-30
Charlie Musselman	 4	 59½   1954-55
Clay Weatherly		3	 55	   1934
Frank McGurk		  2	 52½   1936-41
Tom Alley			 1	 50	   1922
Al Aspen			  1	 50	   1931
Floyd Bobzien		 1	 50	   1927
Eddie Casterline	  2	 50	   1940
Clay Corbitt		  1	 50	   1933
Allen Heath		   3	 50	1952-53
Jimmy Randolph		1	 50	   1925
Roy Reed			  1	 50	   1921
Jerry Hoyt			3	 49	1953-55
Jimmy Patterson	   3	 47½   1931-33
Ottis Stine		   5	 47½   1949-51
Gene Force			3	 47	   1952
Milt McBride		  3	 45	1922-23
Johnny Shackleford	3	 43	1946-47
Chuck Tabor		   3	 42½   1933-36
Roy Huston			2	 42	1925-26
Rick Decker		   2	 40	   1930
Joe Russo			 2	 40	1932-33
Ted Simpson		   1	 40	   1930
Bus Wilbert		   3	 40	   1946
Elbert Booker		 3	 37½   1941-46
Ray Pixley			1	 37½	  1935
Jimmy Daywalt		 2	 35	1950-51
Al Keller			 3	 35	   1954
Paul Young			2	 35	   1938
Lucky Lux			 3	 31	1946-47
Speed Adams		   2	 30	   1932
George Clark		  1	 30	   1921
Jimmy Gleason		 2	 30	1927-29
Jackie Holmes		 3	 30	1948-49
Walt Keiper		   2	 30	1934-35
Mike Little		   2	 30	   1939
Dave Randolph		 2	 27½	  1941
Oscar Ridlon		  2	 27½	  1946
Bill Holmes		   2	 27	1937-38
George Bailey		 1	 25	   1931
Malcolm Fox		   2	 25	1932-34
Charley Gelston	   1	 25	   1931
Ernie Gesell		  1	 25	   1937
Otto Loesche		  2	 25	1920-24
Chuck Myers		   2	 25	1925-31
Archie Powell		 1	 25	   1931
Hal Robson			1	 25	   1946
Jack Ross			 1	 25	   1923
Bill Shoop			1	 25	   1931
Eddie Staneck		 1	 25	   1935
Johnnie Tolan		 1	 25	   1951
Art Boyce			 1	 24½	  1933
Wes Breeding		  1	 20	   1933
Oliver Kley		   1	 20	   1930
Al Miller			 1	 20	   1933
Jimmie Wilburn		1	 20	   1946
Adolph Gusti		  1	 19	   1924
Jiggs Peters		  2	 17½   1954-55
Jack Rose			 1	 17½	  1938
Harry Angeloni		1	 15	   1934
Bumpy Bumpus		  1	 15	   1946
Johnny Duncan		 1	 15	   1936
Ed Elisian			1	 15	   1954
Jules Ellingboe	   1	 15	   1921
Charley Engle		 1	 15	   1934
Gottlieb Flick		1	 15	   1933
Charles Ganung		2	 15	1928-29
Chet Gibbons		  1	 15	   1939
Clyde Gilbert		 1	 15	   1928
Henry Guerand		 1	 15	   1938
Bert Hellmueller	  1	 15	   1933
Johnny Key			1	 15	   1954
Bob King			  1	 15	   1954
Russ Klar			 1	 15	   1953
Harold Larzelere	  1	 15	   1932
Tee Linn			  1	 15	   1933
Fred Lyons			1	 15	   1924
Jack Moon			 1	 15	   1938
Don Moore			 1	 15	   1934
Len Perry			 1	 15	   1935
Rex Records		   1	 15	   1939
Jim Rigsby			1	 15	   1952
Ev Saylor			 1	 15	   1940
Bob Swanson		   1	 15	   1936
Harley Taylor		 2	 15	   1938
Dizzy Vance		   1	 15	   1940
Keith Andrews		 1	 12½	  1954
Noel Bullock		  1	 12½	  1922
Fred Carpenter		1	 12½	  1947
Bob Finney			1	 12½	  1955
Don Freeland		  1	 12½	  1954
George Hammond		1	 12½	  1952
Mike Magill		   1	 12½	  1954
Ed Phillips		   1	 12½	  1929
Bill Randall		  1	 12½	  1948
King Rhiley		   1	 12½	  1921
Harry Robtoy		  1	 12½	  1941
Bob Scott			 1	 12½	  1953
Joe Verebly		   1	 12½	  1946
Newt Meyer			1	 11½	  1939
Bobby Barker		  1	 10	   1951
Larry Beals		   1	 10	   1922
Jim Benedict		  1	 10	   1920
Charlie Breslin	   1	 10	   1938
Bert Ficken		   1	 10	   1931
Ted Kessler		   1	 10	   1932
Danny Kladis		  1	 10	   1954
Speed McFee		   1	 10	   1949
Carl Scarborough	  1	 10	   1947
Roy Sherman		   1	 10	   1950
Ed Terry			  1	 10	   1950
Omar Toft			 1	 10	   1921
Rex Williams		  1	 10	   1939
Billy Darragh		 1	  8	   1923
Earl Johns			1	  8	   1947
Buster Warke		  1	  8	   1947
H. H. Campbell		1	  7½	  1931
Lloyd Axel			2	  ?	1933-34
Frank Brisko		  2	  ?	   1931
Pat Cunningham		2	  ?	1929-30
Slim Harper		   1	  ?	   1925
Bud Henderson		 1	  ?	   1939
Bob Hoffman		   1	  ?	   1921
Roy Lake			  1	  ?	   1938
Don MacDonald		 1	  ?	   1938
Tommy McWilliams	  1	  ?	   1936
Zeke Meyer			1	  ?	   1929
Jack Petticord		2	  ?	   1925
Lou Schempp		   1	  ?	   1926
Steve Truchan		 1	  ?	   1941
Doug Wallace		  1	  ?	   1927

My database for this timeframe now includes circa 4,000 races, of which circa 2,500 were AAA events - minus circa 150 Class B events, and minus circa 350 races of which I don't know the winner, so that this list now includes almost 300 drivers with very close to 2,000 race wins, the total distance of which adds up to more than 90,000 miles! Circa 250 additional AAA races were cancelled or postponed, and at a rough guess I suspect that about the same number of AAA races is still "out there", waiting to be discovered! Additionally, there are still many question marks about some of those races, as the info came from sources that have subsequently proved to be not reliable, and on many occasions the sanctioning body is not exactly clear - for the record, in the case of co-sanctions involving AAA the races have been included in this list, of course.

What makes the list interesting is that by adding up the "winning miles", i.e. the distances covered in the races won, it sort of levels the field for those who prefered to race in few long races against those who ran many short ones. You will notice that, for example, Tommy Hinnershitz racked up about the same figure of "winning miles" with almost a hundred wins, against Bill Vukovich with merely four! Thus, it about accurately reflects the status of the drivers, as the prime motivator in professional racing is always the purse, and in AAA that was always closely connected to the overall distance of the races. Overall I'm pretty well pleased with the list, as in my opinion it much better reflects reality in ranking than does a list which merely tabulates overall race wins, or points won in National Championship races alone.

Edited by fines, 01 June 2009 - 19:06.


#149 fines

fines
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Posted 18 June 2009 - 18:52

# 3 Tarbet

Originally built...



#28 Christensen

Apparently built in...


It turns out, the "shortened or maybe new frame" for the Tarbet Cragar was, in fact, the...

Read on at http://www.oldracing...-pacific-coast/

Edited by fines, 01 September 2009 - 14:16.


#150 Winchester

Winchester
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Posted 02 July 2009 - 19:22

1939 AAA Midwest Big Cars Final Driver Points
1 - Ted Horn - 315
2 - Rex Mays - 194
3 - George Conner - 93
4 - Emil Andres - 88
5 - Floyd Davis - 84.5
6 - Lou Webb - 67.5
7 - Shorty Cantlon - 58.5
8 - Lewis Durant - 57.5
9 - Tony Willman - 55
10 - Mauri Rose - 52
11 - Frank McGurk - 39
12 - Pete Romcevich - 30.5
13 - George Barringer - 29.5
14 - Billy Devore - 28
15 - Duke Nalon - 25
16 - Sam Hanks - 23
17 - Russ Snowberger - 22
18 - Louis Unser - 21
19 - Port DeFrates - 19.5
20 - George Robson - 16
21 - Frank Brisko - 11
22 - Babe Stapp - 10
23 - Al Putnam - 7.5
24 - Joel Thorne - 6
25 - Ted Tetterton - 4.5
26 - Paul Craven - ??