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Pre-War AAA Big Car Championship top-tens


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#151 Winchester

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 19:24

Here's an example of the scope of these championships, and even if the list is probably not complete, the number of races is quite typical for the entire period of the thirties. You can see that the National Championship was but a VERY SMALL part of the US racing scene in those years!

!!!The data is not only incomplete, but also quite suspect in a number of cases, especially entrant and car info!!!

Date		D  CR  St  Venue		 TT   RD  Winner				Team/Owner			Chassis			   Engine				Time



1932-05-30  C   1  IN  Indianapolis  P+  500  Fred Frame			Harry Hartz		   Miller-Hartz IC-32	Miller-Hartz 182	  4:48'47.46"

1932-06-05  C   2  MI  Detroit	   D1  100* Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Meyer IC-31		   Miller 230-249		1:09'32.63"

1932-06-19  C   3  IN  Roby		  D1  100  Stubby Stubblefield   Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick IC-32  Miller 220			1:18'40.2"

1932-07-02  C   4  NY  Syracuse	  D1  100* Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Meyer IC-31		   Miller 230-249		  59'53.52"

1932-09-10  C   5  MI  Detroit	   D1  100  Mauri Rose			Louis Schneider	   Schneider IC-30	   Miller 122-152		1:20'34.43"

1932-11-13  C   6  CA  Oakland	   D1  150  Bill Cummings		 Mike Boyle			Miller 230			Miller 230-268		1:39'29.8"



1932-05-07  E   ?  PA  Langhorne	 D1   50  Bill Cummings		 Louis Schneider	   Fronty				Fronty SV			 ?

1932-05-15  E   ?  PA  Reading	   D-   20  Fred Frame			Fred Frame			Duesenberg 122-30	 Duesenberg 91-150	 ?

1932-05-22  E   ?  NY  Deer Park	 D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-05-22  E   ?  PA  Lehighton	 D-   15* ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-05-28  E   ?  PA  Langhorne	 D1   25  Al Theisen			?					 Vance				 ?					 ?

1932-05-29  E   ?  NY  Deer Park	 D-	5  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-05-30  E   ?  MA  Brockton	  D-   20  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-05-30  E   ?  NJ  Flemington	D-   20  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-05-30  E   ?  NJ  Ho-Ho-Kus	 D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-06-05  E   ?  NY  Deer Park	 D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-06-05  E   ?  PA  Pottsville	D-	?  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-06-17  E   ?  PA  Reading	   D-   20  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-06-19  E   ?  NY  Deer Park	 D-   15  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-06-26  E   ?  NH  Salem		 D1   50  Al Gordon			 Doug Harrison		 Miller 91			 Miller 220			?

1932-07-04  E   ?  NJ  Ho-Ho-Kus	 D-   20  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-07-09  E   ?  NY  Altamont	  D-   20  Billy Winn			Billy Winn			Clemons			   Fronty				?

1932-07-09  E   ?  PA  Bloomsburg	D-   20  Gus Schrader		  Gus Schrader		  Schrader SC-32		Miller 220			?

1932-07-17  E   ?  PA  Reading	   D-   20  Billy Winn			Billy Winn			Clemons			   Fronty				?

1932-07-24  E   ?  NY  Plattsburgh   D-   15  Harris Insinger	   Don Church			?					 Ambler				?

1932-07-27  E   ?  NY  Middletown	D-   20  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-08-06  E   ?  MA  Readville	 D-   25  Gene Haustein		 Arthur Chevrolet	  Fronty				Fronty				?

1932-08-13  E   ?  PA  Langhorne	 D1   50  Mauri Rose			Louis Schneider	   Schneider IC-30	   Miller 122-152		?

1932-08-26  E   ?  PA  Lewistown	 D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-08-26  E   ?  NY  Little Valley D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-08-27  E   ?  PA  Lewistown	 D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-08-27  E   ?  NY  Little Valley D-   10  Bryan Saulpaugh	   Leo Krasek			Krasek				Fronty				?

1932-08-28  E   ?  NJ  Woodbridge	D-   25  Bryan Saulpaugh	   Leo Krasek			Krasek				Fronty				?

1932-09-02  E   ?  NY  Rheinbeck	 D-   10  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-09-03  E   ?  NY  Ballston	  D-	?  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-03  E   ?  NJ  Flemington	D-   20  Billy Winn			Billy Winn			Clemons			   Fronty				  16'44"

1932-09-03  E   ?  NY  Hamburg	   D-   10  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-09-04  E   ?  NJ  Woodbridge	D-   25  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-09-05  E   ?  NJ  Flemington	D-   15  Billy Winn			Billy Winn			Clemons			   Fronty				?

1932-09-05  E   ?  PA  Pottsville	D-	?  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-05  E   ?  MA  Readville	 D-   25  Mauri Rose			Louis Schneider	   Fronty				Fronty SV			 ?

1932-09-05  E   ?  VA  Richmond	  D-   15  Harold Larzelere	  ?					 ?					 Fronty				?

1932-09-10  E   ?  NY  Dunkirk	   D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-10  E   ?  VT  Rutland	   D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-10  E   ?  NJ  Trenton	   D-   10  Harris Insinger	   ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-11  E   ?  NJ  Woodbridge	D-   25  Bryan Saulpaugh	   Leo Krasek			Krasek				Fronty				?

1932-09-16  E   ?  NY  Altamont	  D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-17  E   ?  NY  Altamont	  D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-17  E   ?  MA  Brockton	  D-	?  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-17  E   ?  NY  Mineola	   D-   10  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-09-17  E   ?  PA  Reading	   D-   20  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-18  E   ?  NJ  Woodbridge	D-   25  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-09-23  E   ?  NY  Riverhead	 D-	?  Billy Winn			Billy Winn			Clemons			   Fronty				?

1932-09-24  E   ?  PA  Allentown	 D-   25  Billy Winn			Billy Winn			Clemons			   Fronty				?

1932-09-24  E   ?  PA  Langhorne	 D1   50  Bill Cummings		 Mike Boyle			Miller 230			Miller 230-268		?

1932-09-24  E   ?  NY  Riverhead	 D-	?  Fred Frame			Fred Frame			Duesenberg 122-30	 Duesenberg 91-150	 ?

1932-09-25  E   ?  NJ  Woodbridge	D-   25  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-10-01  E   ?  PA  Bloomsburg	D-   20  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-10-01  E   ?  PA  Lehighton	 D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-10-02  E   ?  NJ  Woodbridge	D-	?  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-10-08  E   ?  CT  Danbury	   D-	?  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-10-08  E   ?  PA  Hughesville   D-   10  Bob Sall			  Green Engineering	 Green				 Green				 ?

1932-10-08  E   ?  VA  Richmond	  D-   20* ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-10-09  E   ?  NJ  Woodbridge	D-   25* Joe Russo			 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-10-12  E   ?  MA  Readville	 D-   50  Lloyd Vieaux		  Lloyd Vieaux		  ?					 Fronty				?

1932-10-15  E   ?  NC  Concord	   D-   20  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-10-22  E   ?  VA  Suffolk	   D-   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?



1932-05-08  M   ?  IN  Roby		  D1	?  Billy Arnold		  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-05-22  M   ?  IA  Cedar Rapids  D-   15  Howard Adams		  Joe Kinsey			Kinsey				Fronty DO			 ?

1932-05-30  M   ?  IA  Davenport	 D-   15  Howard Adams		  Joe Kinsey			Kinsey				Fronty DO			 ?

1932-05-30  M   ?  IN  Winchester	D-	?  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-06-12  M   ?  IN  Fort Wayne	D-   50  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?

1932-07-10  M   ?  IN  Winchester	D-	?  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?

1932-07-17  M   ?  OH  Cleveland	 D1   50  Ira Hall			  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-07-24  M   ?  IN  Fort Wayne	D-  100  H. Wilcox/M. Rose	 Louis Schneider	   Fronty				Fronty SV			 ?

1932-08-20  M   ?  MI  Detroit	   D1   10  ?					 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-08-28  M   ?  IN  Winchester	D-   20  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?

1932-09-18  M   ?  MI  Saginaw	   D-   25  Gene Haustein		 Arthur Chevrolet	  Fronty				Fronty				?

1932-09-25  M   ?  IN  Fort Wayne	D-   15  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?

1932-10-02  M   ?  MI  Detroit VFW   D-   20  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?

1932-10-09  M   ?  MI  Detroit VFW   D-   20  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?

1932-10-16  M   ?  MI  Detroit VFW   D-   20  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?



1932-01-01  P   ?  CA  Oakland	   D1  100* Babe Stapp			?					 ?					 Miller				  45'13.4"

1932-01-03  P   ?  CA  Bakersfield   D1   50  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			?

1932-01-10  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			?

1932-01-17  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Bill Cummings		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-01-24  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Wilbur Shaw		   Otto Lind			 ?					 Cragar				?

1932-02-13  P   ?  CA  Imperial	  D1   30  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		?

1932-02-14  P   ?  CA  Imperial	  D1   60  Sam Palmer			?					 ?					 Cragar				?

1932-02-21  P   ?  CA  Oakland	   D1  100  Bob Carey			 Louis Meyer		   Miller 91			 Miller 230-249		1:06'19.84"

1932-02-28  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Bill Cummings		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-03-06  P   ?  CA  Oakland	   D1   50  Bill Cummings		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			  33'09.7"

1932-03-13  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Wilbur Shaw		   Fred Blauvelt		 Blauvelt SC-32		Miller 220			?

1932-03-27  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Wilbur Shaw		   Fred Blauvelt		 Blauvelt SC-32		Miller 220			?

1932-04-03  P   ?  CA  Oakland	   D1  100  Bob Carey			 Leslie Quinn		  Quinn SC-31		   Miller 220			1:05'43.43"

1932-04-10  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Bill Cummings		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-04-17  P   ?  CA  Oakland	   D1  100  Bob Carey			 Leslie Quinn		  Quinn SC-31		   Miller 220			1:05'24.8"

1932-04-20  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Arvol Brunmier		Harvey Ward		   Ward				  Miller 220			?

1932-04-27  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Arvol Brunmier		Harvey Ward		   Ward				  Miller 220			?

1932-05-08  P   ?  CA  Oakland	   D1  100  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			1:07'25.40"

1932-05-11  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			?

1932-05-18  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Chet Gardner		  Chet Gardner		  Miller 91			 Miller 220			?

1932-05-25  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Sam Palmer			Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-06-01  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25* Nick Martino		  Harvey Ward		   Ward				  Miller 220			?

1932-06-08  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Carl Ryder			Otto Lind			 ?					 Cragar				?

1932-06-15  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Nick Martino		  Harvey Ward		   Ward				  Miller 220			?

1932-06-22  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			  18'27"

1932-06-26  P   ?  CA  Huntington B. D-   15  Tex Peterson		  ?					 ?					 Fronty				?

1932-06-29  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-07-06  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Carl Ryder			Otto Lind			 ?					 Cragar				?

1932-07-13  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   25  Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-07-20  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   30  Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-07-27  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   30  Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-08-03  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Wilbur Shaw		   Harvey Ward		   Ward				  Miller 220			?

1932-08-10  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			?

1932-08-17  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   30  Kelly Petillo		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-08-21  P   ?  CA  Culver City   D-   12½ Tex Peterson		  ?					 ?					 Fronty				?

1932-08-24  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   30  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			?

1932-08-28  P   ?  CA  San Jose	  D-   62½ Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-08-31  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-09-04  P   ?  CA  Culver City   D-   15  Red Clark			 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

1932-09-07  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   37½ Babe Stapp			Harvey Ward		   Ward				  Miller 220			?

1932-09-14  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   37½ Kelly Petillo		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-09-21  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   37½ Chet Gardner		  Chet Gardner		  Miller 91			 Miller 220			?

1932-09-25  P   ?  CA  San Jose	  D-   37½ Babe Stapp			Harvey Ward		   Ward				  Miller 220			?

1932-10-05  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   30  Kelly Petillo		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-10-12  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   37½ Kelly Petillo		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-10-16  P   ?  CA  San Jose	  D-   62½ Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-10-23  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   95  Chet Gardner		  Chet Gardner		  Miller 91			 Miller 220			?

1932-10-30  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   30  Kelly Petillo		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-11-06  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Les Spangler		  Danny de Paolo		De Paolo			  Miller 220			?

1932-11-20  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   95  Bill Cummings		 Sparks/Weirick		Sparks-Weirick SC-32  Sparks 239			?

1932-12-04  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-   62½ Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			?

1932-12-18  P   ?  CA  Ascot		 D-  125  Ernie Triplett		Bill White			White SC-31		   Miller 220			?




Here is the list that I have.

1932 AAA Eastern Big Car Circuit
05/07 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D - Bill Cummings - Louie Schneider Fronty #
05/15 - Reading, PA - 20L / D - Fred Frame - Frame Duesenberg #
05/22 - Lehighton, PA - 30L / D - - Bill Neapolitan -
05/22 - Deer Park, NY - / D -
05/28 - Langhorne, PA - 25M / D - Al Thiessen - Vance # 6
05/29 - Deer Park, NY - / D -
05/30 - Brockton, MA – 20L / D - Burt Karnatz -
05/30 - Flemington, NJ - - Johnny Sawyer -
05/30 - HoHokus, NJ –
06/05 - Deer Park, NY –
06/05 - Pottsville, PA -
06/17 - Reading, PA - 40L / D - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
06/19 - Deer Park, NY –
06/26 - Salem, NH - / D - Al Gordon - Harris Miller #
07/04 - HoHokus, NJ - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
07/09 - Altamont, NY - 20L / D - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
07/09 - Bloomsburg, PA -20L / D - Gus Schrader - Schrader Miller #
07/18 - Reading, PA - - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
07/24 - Plattsburgh, NY - 20L / D - Harris Insinger - Ambler #
07/27 - Middletown, NY - 20L / D -
07/28 - Harrington, DE - - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
08/06 - Readville, MA - 50L / D - Gene Haustein -
08/13 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D - Mauri Rose -
08/26 - Little Valley, NY - 20L / D* - Malcolm Fox - Miller # 34
08/26 - Lewistown, PA - 20L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
08/27 - Little Valley, NY - 20L / D* - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
08/27 - Lewistown, PA - 20L / D* - Bill Neapolitan - Ben Shaw Spl. # 16
08/27 - Middletown, NY - 40L / D - Jimmy Patterson - Fred Frame Dusenberg # 2
08/28 - Woodbridge, NY - 50L / D - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
09/02 - Rheinbeck, NY - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/03 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/03 - Hamburg, NY - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/03 - Ballston Spa, NY - 20L / D - Harris Insinger - Krasek # 41
09/03 - Flemington, NJ - 40L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/04 - Woodbridge, NJ - - Races Cancelled -
09/05 - Flemington, NJ - 40L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/05 - Richmond, VA - 30L / D - Harold Larzelere - Fronty # 2
09/05 - Readville, MA - 50L / D - Mauri Rose -
09/05 - Pottsville, PA -
09/09 - Pottsville, PA - 20L / D* - Harris Insinger - Krasek # 41
09/10 - Rutland, VT - / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/10 - Trenton, NJ - 20L / D* - Harris Insinger - Krasek # 41
09/10 - Dunkirk, NY -20L / D* - Ted Kessler - Kessler # 2
09/11 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
09/16 - Altamont, NY - 20L / D* - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
09/16 - Brockton, MA - - Rained Out -
09/17 - Reading, PA - 40L / D* - - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # 4K
09/17 - Altamont, NY - 20L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/17 - Mineola, L.I. - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/17 - Brockton, MA -20L / D - - Fred Frame - Fred Frame Dusenberg # 2
09/18 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/23 - Riverhead, NY - * - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/24 - Riverhead, NY - * - Fred Frame - Fred Frame Dusenberg # 2
09/24 - Allentown, PA - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/24 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D - Bill Cummings - Louie Schneider Fronty #
09/25 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
10/01 - Lehighton, PA - / D - Doc MacKenzie -
10/01 - Bloomsburg, PA - / D - Fred Frame -
10/02 - Woodbridge, NJ - / D - Al Thiessen - Vance # 6
10/08 - Danbury, CT –
10/08 - Richmond, VA - - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
10/08 - Hughesville, PA - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
10/09 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Joe Russo -
10/12 - Readville, MA - 50L / D - Lloyd Vieaux - Vieaux Fronty #
10/15 - Concord, NC - 20L / D - Johnny Sawyer -
10/22 - Suffolk, VA -20L / D -
* Hankinson Big Car Circuit



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#152 fines

fines
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Posted 05 July 2009 - 07:30

:clap: Thank you, and welcome to The Nostalgia Forum, Winchester! :clap:

With a user name like that, I'm sure you've done a fair bit of Midwest research, too, no? ;)

#153 Jim Thurman

Jim Thurman
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Posted 08 July 2009 - 21:27

Here's an example of the scope of these championships, and even if the list is probably not complete, the number of races is quite typical for the entire period of the thirties. You can see that the National Championship was but a VERY SMALL part of the US racing scene in those years!

!!!The data is not only incomplete, but also quite suspect in a number of cases, especially entrant and car info!!!

Date		D  CR  St  Venue		 TT   RD  Winner				Team/Owner			Chassis			   Engine				Time

1932-06-26  P   ?  CA  Huntington B. D-   15  Tex Peterson		  ?					 ?					 Fronty				?

1932-08-21  P   ?  CA  Culver City   D-   12½ Tex Peterson		  ?					 ?					 Fronty				?

1932-09-04  P   ?  CA  Culver City   D-   15  Red Clark			 ?					 ?					 ?					 ?

Michael, I haven't confirmed it, but I strongly suspect these three events to have been for the early version of Track Roadsters. I especially suspect the last Culver City date as recent research turned up Red Clark among drivers listed for Roadster races at Culver City just one month later.

Hopefully, I can confirm this shortly, as in next trip to a Los Angeles library.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 09 July 2009 - 06:32.


#154 Winchester

Winchester
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Posted 14 July 2009 - 23:33

:clap: Thank you, and welcome to The Nostalgia Forum, Winchester! :clap:

With a user name like that, I'm sure you've done a fair bit of Midwest research, too, no?;)


Thank you for the warm welcome. I hope to add some input on the AAA races.

Here is 1934 East, very incomplete.

1934 AAA Eastern Big Cars
04/28 - Langhorne, PA - 100M / D* - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 24
04/29 - Pottsville, PA - 30L / D - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 24
05/19 - Reading, PA - 40L / D* - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 24
05/20 - Reading, PA - 40L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl # 36
05/30 - Leighton, PA - 30L / D - Walter Kieper - Winfield # 99
05/30 - Altamont, NY - 40L / D* - Lloyd Vieaux - Cragar # 5
06/09 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D* - Al Gordon - Sparks Weirick Miller # 1
06/10 - Pottsville, PA - 30L / D - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 24
06/17 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Ted Horn - Rasor McDowell # 1
06/24 - Flemington, NJ - 40L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl # 36
07/01 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Ted Horn - Rasor McDowell # 1
07/04 - York, PA - 40L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl # 36
07/04 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Ted Horn - Rasor McDowell # 1
07/04 - Atlanta, GA - 20M / D - Lloyd Vieaux - Cragar # 5
07/04 - Altamont, NY - 40L / D - Bob Sall - McDowell # 1
07/08 - Atlanta, GA - 25M / D - Chet Gardner - Miller # 5
07/22 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Harry Angeloni - McDowell # 68
07/28 - Harrington, DE - 20L / D* - Billy Winn - Miller # 3
08/11 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D* - Al Gordon - Sparks Weirick Miller #1
08/12 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Billy Winn - Miller # 3
08/18 - Watertown, NY - Race canceled - insurance problems
08/18 - Afton, NY - 30L / D* - Ken Fowler - Vance # 4
08/19 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Billy Winn - Miller # 3
08/25 - Lewiston, PA - 30L / D* - Don Moore - Riffert Brothers # 49
08/25 - Middletown, NY - 30L / D* - Johnny Hannon - Miller
08/25 - Hamburg, NY - 30L / D - Maynard Clark - Johnny Gerber # 6
09/01 - Flemington, NJ - 30L / D* - Doc MacKenzie - Miller # 2
09/01 - Rhinebeck, NY - 30L / D - Malcolm Fox - Lynch Ambler # 11
09/03 - Flemington, NJ - 30L / D* - Doc MacKenzie - Miller # 5
09/03 - Richmond, VA - / D - Vern Orenduff - Lynch Ambler # 4
09/03 - Atlanta, GA - 10M / D - Billy Winn - Miller # 3
09/03 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Ben Shaw - Frontanac # 18
09/06 - Pottsville, PA - / D - Races Cancelled -
09/08 - Rutland, VT - / D* -
09/12 - Flemington, NJ - 30L / D - Doc MacKenzie -
09/14 - Altamont, NY - 30L / D - Bob Sall - McDowell # 1
09/15 - Brockton, MA - / D - Ben Shaw -
09/16 - Reading, PA - 30L / D* - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 2
09/22 - Allentown, PA - / D - Floyd Davis - Cragar # 21
09/22 - Lewisburg, PA - Races Cancelled -
09/23 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Ted Horn - Rasor McDowell # 1
09/26 - Mineola, NY - 30L / D - Ben Shaw - Frontanac # 18
09/28 - Greensboro, NC - 30L / D - Chet Gardner - Miller # 5
09/29 - Shelby, NC - 30L / D - Chet Gardner - Miller # 5
09/29 - Bloomsburg, PA - / D* - Billy Winn - # 14
09/29 - Trenton, NJ - 30L / D - Ben Shaw - Frontanac # 18
09/30 - Trenton, NJ - 30L / D - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 2
10/03 - Atlanta, GA - 25M / D - Chet Gardner - Miller # 5
10/05 - Winston-Salem, NC* – Rained Out -
10/06 - Richmond, VA - / D* -
10/07 - Atlanta, GA - 25M / D - Clay Weatherly - Cragar # 7
10/07 - Danbury, CT - / D - Lloyd Axel - Miller # 8
10/07 - Hohokus, NJ - 30L / D - Bob Sall - Vance # 6
10/12 - Raleigh, NC - 20L / D - Clay Weatherly -
10/13 - Concord, NC - 30L / D* - Floyd Davis - Bagley # 24
10/14 - Stafford Springs, CT - / D* - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 2
10/20 - Spartanburg, SC - 30L / D - Johnny Hannon - Miller # 2
10/27 - Richmond, VA - 30L / D - Vern Orenduff - Lynch Ambler # 4
* Hankinson Circuit.
Harold Wright fatally injured during time trials on July 4th at York, PA.




#155 Jim Thurman

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:10

Michael, I haven't confirmed it, but I strongly suspect these three events to have been for the early version of Track Roadsters. I especially suspect the last Culver City date as recent research turned up Red Clark among drivers listed for Roadster races at Culver City just one month later.

Hopefully, I can confirm this shortly, as in next trip to a Los Angeles library.

Hold this a moment. Photos in the Times from separate events at Culver City show "big cars" and a Rajo T bodied car. Same drivers though. I assume that T bodied cars were allowed to run with more traditional appearing cars, much like the 1950's CRA fields that featured both roadster and sprint cars.

It appears they were sanctioned by the California Auto Racing Association and a group known as the Culver City Drivers Association.


#156 Michael Ferner

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 20:59

For the record, here are the pre-war non-AAA Big Car Champions that I know of
ARA (American Racing Association - CA)
1928 Jack Buxton (?)

Well, I finally found some more information on the mysterious Jack Buxton championship, erroneously listed as AAA Pacific Coast in the John Lucero Ascot book, from where it made it to several other secondary sources. To be fair, Buxton was called "a former Pacific Coast champion" in period already, so this is a mistake that can be forgiven... although it pains me to say! :rolleyes:;)

Actually, Buxton was the "California Dirt Track Champion", and the sanctioning body was called NARA - National Auto Racing Association. NARA sanctioned meetings at Californian tracks such as San Jose, Los Banos, Chowchilla and Banning, it seems, but not at Ascot, ironically - at least not in 1928! Apparently, the organisation went belly-up when the AAA established the Pacific Coast circuit in 1929, but it was likely in existence since the IMCA left Ascot behind in early 1925 - Bill Spence appears to have been the 1927 champion. The name NARA was recycled several times, in the mid thirties by a Texas-based organisation, it seems, and in 1950 as a successor to the Penn-Jersey Club, itself an outgrowth of the Atlantic Motor Racing Assoc.

A June 14, 1928 article of the San Jose Evening News details the point standings after five rounds, with Barney Kloepfer (1717) leading from Buxton (1120), Ernie Triplett (430), Francis Quinn (415) etc. The latter two were only sporadic starters, with Triplett campaigning in the Midwest all summer, and Quinn mostly at Colton and Ascot, where a rival sanctioning body may have held sway - I'm not too clear yet on the latter. Without being more specific, the article stated that NARA points were based on purse winnings (perhaps even as simple as one point for one dollar?). Anyway, here's a tentative list of qualifying rounds:

1. Mar 18, San Jose Speedway, 156¼ m (Jimmy Murphy Memorial), Barney Kloepfer, Kloepfer Special, 2:25'00"
2. May 6, Los Banos Speedway, 12½ m?, Jack Buxton, Bobby Special, 19'35"
3. May 13, Chowchilla, ?, ?
4. May 20, San Jose Speedway, 12½ m (Fiesta de las Rosas), Jack Buxton, Bobby Special, 9'32.0"
5. May 30, Banning Speedway, 25 m, Francis Quinn, Ballinger/Rajo?, 24'56"
6. Jun 24, San Jose Speedway, 12½ m?, Jack Buxton, Bobby Special
7. Jul 4, Banning Speedway, 12½ m, Speed Hinkley, Moore/Frontenac?, 12'14.4"
8. Jul 4, San Jose Speedway, 12½ m, Jack Buxton, Bobby Special, 9'49"
9. Sep 2, Banning Speedway, 12½ m, Jimmy Sharp, Mahoney Special, 12'01.4"
10. Sep 16, San Jose Speedway, 12½ m, Stubby Stubblefield, Fratella Special, no time
11. Oct 21, San Jose Speedway, 12½ m, Jack Buxton, Bobby Special, 9'47.0"

#157 Michael Ferner

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 21:30

1930 Pacific Southwest
1 Francis Quinn, ? points
2 Mel Kenealy, ? points
3 Walt May, ? points
4 Ernie Triplett, ? points
5 Wilbur Shaw, ? points
6 Stubby Stubblefield, ? points
7 Swede Smith, ? points
8 Arvol Brunmier, ? points
9 Herman Schurch, ? points
10 Shorty Cantlon, ? points

Note: other sources show Jimmy Sharp finishing 2nd!

Forget the above, here's the final standings from the January 11, 1931 programme, kindly provided by JEREMY GILMORE! :clap::clap:

1 Francis Quinn, 832.50 points
2 Jimmy Sharp, 475.63 points
3 Walt May, 369.46 pts
4 Shorty Cantlon, 347.61 points
5 Stubby Stubblefield, 288.74 points
6 Ernie Triplett, 261.69 points
7 Swede Smith, 248.93 points
8 Arvol Brunmier, 235.12 points
9 Mel McKee, 205.65 points
10 Johnny Krieger, 173.16 points

Mel Kenealy was actually 16th, Herman Schurch 27th and Wilbur Shaw 57th! So much for the accuracy of John Lucero's Ascot book, yet again! :mad:

Also,

1935 Pacific Coast
1 Rex Mays, 856.68 points
2 Kelly Petillo, 378.19 points
3 Al Gordon, 335.03 points
4 Frank Wearne, 324.3 points
5 Ray Pixley, 242.24 points
6 Hal Cole, 199.3 points
7 George Connor, 178.93 points
8 Frank McGurk, 137.8 points
9 Chris Vest, 130.45 points
10 Chet Gardner, 125.19 points

... is correct per AAA info, but here again the "ignore deceased drivers rule" strikes: Harris Insinger was high up in points when he crashed fatally at Oakland Speedway on September 8 - I'm pretty certain (though I still lack confirmation) that he was lying second, far behind Rex Mays, but since Kelly Petillo did not compete on the "left coast" after his Indy win, Insinger would have finished in the same position. AAA usually published the final points tabulations in connection with a list of starting numbers for the new year, hence the omission of deceased and/or retired drivers, but Insinger deserves to be remembered as the 1935 Pacific Coast runner-up!

#158 Jim Thurman

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 02:08

Michael :up:

I was going to ask you if - when you are able to - provide me with California dates, CARA, NARA, AAA, "outlaw" for me to check on, when I can.

As far as Lucero's book, I talked with an older gentleman last year. He grew up around Legion Ascot (after it closed) and later raced himself. His comment: "I know John, I've known him for years, but his book is complete s---."

#159 Michael Ferner

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 07:43

Glad you ask, since it gives me an opportunity to reassure you that I haven't forgotten your request about the Ascot results. I was going to include all other Californian races that I know of, anyway, so please bear with me. It's just that I'm quite busy these days, but it should get better by the end of next week.

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#160 Michael Ferner

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 13:38

Got lucky and found a points listing of the top twenty-one AAA Eastern Circuit drivers in an undated newspaper, but it's easy to determine that it's from late June, 1936. As a boon, it also contains the number of races each driver scored points in, something which I've seen once or twice before, and it's especially helpful here because it was still early in the season, and no driver had yet double digits in that column (from a total number of about a dozen races). Only trouble is, it's very hard to read from the microfilm-created PDF file, but one VERY surprising fact is inescapable: points scored from the Langhorne 100-miler on June 21 were calculated on the basis of a distance of 75 miles!!!

I have absolutely no explanation for that, other than perhaps an error at AAA headquarters, which would be rather untypical for that most bureaucratic of organisations! Still possible, of course, but then one likes to think that it would've been corrected later on, since it was easily the most "point-heavy" race on the schedule, with only another Langhorne race (at 50 miles) coming even close. Trouble is, IF it was corrected, then we should find Floyd Davis in the top ten at the end of the year, narrowly pipping Harry Angeloni - that, apparently, did not happen (see the NARN report in John Humphries's post #16 in this thread), so we're left with another riddle to solve... :(

#161 Michael Ferner

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 12:16

I think I may have solved the riddle already! Noticing that some of my problems with the 1936 and '38 Midwestern (see, e.g. post #103) points tables would be lessened by adopting the "75 for 100 miles rule", I come to the conclusion that AAA apparently put a "lid" on the scoring method, meaning that all events from 75 miles upwards would pay the same points! It's also easy to see why, if you look at earlier years, especially 1934 when Johnny Hannon scored 240 points in the very first race of the Eastern season, to virtually make the championship a "one horse race" - it was pretty hard for the promoters to stirr up any interest in an effectively non-existant title fight! His final winning margin was 239 points, by the way... ;)

#162 GILMORE

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 07:32

Forget the above, here's the final standings from the January 11, 1931 programme, kindly provided by JEREMY GILMORE! :clap::clap:


Your welcome budddy. :wave:

You could have just made up the point standings like Mr. Lucero would have done. :stoned:

#163 Michael Ferner

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 09:44

1931 Pacific Southwest
1 Ernie Triplett, ? points
2 Chet Gardner, ? points
3 Stubby Stubblefield, ? Points
4 Francis Quinn, ? points
5 Arvol Brunmier, ? points
6 Les Spangler, ? points
7 Babe Stapp, ? points
8 Bill Cummings, ? points
9 Mel Kenealy, ? points
10 Kelly Petillo, ? points


Again, correction time, this time with info from Gene Banning's "Speedway", kindly provided by the combined efforts of BILL WISWEDEL and JERRY ENTIN! :clap::clap:

1 Ernie Triplett, 885.09 points
2 Chet Gardner, 593.96 points
3 Stubby Stubblefield, 475.75 Points
4 Francis Quinn, 459.34 points
5 Arvol Brunmier, 377.80 points
6 Bill Cummings, 291.34 points
7 Mel Kenealy, 210.22 points
8 Babe Stapp, 199.56 points
9 Mel McKee, 189.70 points
10 Shorty Cantlon, 165.92 points

:)

#164 Michael Ferner

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 12:40

For the record, here are the pre-war non-AAA Big Car Champions that I know of:

(...)

IMCA (International Motor Contest Association - ND to FL, TX to ME) - early Champions unclear, perhaps different circuits
1919 Louis Disbrow
1920 Louis Disbrow
1921 Louis Disbrow
1922 Louis Disbrow
1923 Fred Horey
1924 Fred Horey
1925 Fred Horey
1926 Fred Horey
1927 Fred Horey
1928 Sig Haugdahl
1929 Sig Haugdahl
1930 Sig Haugdahl
1931 Sig Haugdahl
1932 Sig Haugdahl
1933 Gus Schrader
1934 Gus Schrader
1935 Gus Schrader
1936 Gus Schrader
1937 Gus Schrader
1938 Emory Collins
1939 Gus Schrader
1940 Gus Schrader
1941 Gus Schrader


Well, I've finally begun looking into the history of the IMCA (I had to, eventually...), and it begins to dawn upon me why it is that nobody has ever been able to find point standings from before 1937: in all probability, they were never compiled in the first place!

J. A. (sr.) "Alex" Sloan, the Major Domo of all things IMCA in those early years, died in the spring of 1937, and his son J. A. (jr.) "John" Sloan took over the reins of the Racing Corp. of America, the (nominal) promoter of all pre-WW2 IMCA races. Although one can find hints about points scoring rounds, championships etc. in pre-1937 newspapers, they were probably no more than smoke screen, and it seems that Alex Sloan simply determined the "Dirt Track World Champion" for any given season, and subsequently modified his own selections according to his (promotional) needs at any given time! Thus, it seems to be the best to forget about all pre-1937 IMCA champions, and stop worrying about why, e.g., some sources show Bob Robinson as the 1923 champion, and others Fred Horey, and why Lou Disbrow was often refered to as "five-times World Champion", and if the 1932 high-point man was Gus Schrader or Sig Haugdahl etc. It is quite obvious that even Alex Sloan didn't know for sure, and that he took his "data" to his grave with him...

It was apparently John Sloan, who started doing it "properly", however there are still some irregularities in those years that need a closer look at. The thing about the different circuits didn't happen before after WW2, when National Speedways, Inc. and Auto Racing, Inc. shared the promotional duties, with RCA lingering on for a few more years. NSI and ARI appear to have crowned "Circuit Champions" for many years, but there was always an overall IMCA Champion. So, the corrected list of pre-war IMCA Champions is thus:

IMCA (International Motor Contest Association - ND to FL, TX to ME)
1937 Gus Schrader
1938 Emory Collins
1939 Gus Schrader
1940 Gus Schrader
1941 Gus Schrader


... and no more! :cool:

#165 sramoa

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 11:22

Very interesting topic for me, but my question why finishing?I think our have a lot of story and info for this topic...

What is the full list for Top 200 Big Car drivers?

Here is my IMCA top tens in 1937:

1.Gus Schrader(1120 pts)
2.Emory Collins(1020 pts)
3.Leonard Musick(515)
4.Buddy Calloway(382)
5.Ben Musick(372)
6.Larry Beckett(245)
7.Lloyd Axel(147)
8.Jimmy Woods(147)
9.Herb Magnus(142)
10.Buddy Rusch(137)
I have 65 names(last:Ted Singleton,Atlanta,GA 3 points),but I think more point scorers...

1938 IMCA:

1.Emory Collins(3140)
2.Gus Schrader(3039)
3.Ben Shaw(2255)
4.Bayliss Levrett(1909)
5.Ben Musick(1729)
6.Deb Snyder(1608)
7.Buddy Calloway(1295)
8.Harold Shaw(1197)
9.Jimmy Miller(883)
10.Lynton Musick(598)
My list think 60 names(last:Ernie Lang,20 points),but I think more names scored points...

I don't have 1939-40

1941 IMCA:

1.Emory Collins(1202)
2.Eddie Nicholson(720)
3.Eddie Zalucki(503)
4.Sam Hoffman(212)
5.Slim Rutherford(191)
6.Joe Langley(146)
7.Bob Perry(124)
8.Claire Cotter(111)
9.Don Alberts(88)
10.Franks Sands(68)
My list think 40 names(last:Merl Heath,Rock Island,IL,2 points)
Note:My list think this championship name is:Mid-West IMCA(National Spdwys) Circuit





#166 Michael Ferner

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:58

1941 IMCA:

1.Emory Collins(1202)
2.Eddie Nicholson(720)
3.Eddie Zalucki(503)
4.Sam Hoffman(212)
5.Slim Rutherford(191)
6.Joe Langley(146)
7.Bob Perry(124)
8.Claire Cotter(111)
9.Don Alberts(88)
10.Franks Sands(68)
My list think 40 names(last:Merl Heath,Rock Island,IL,2 points)
Note:My list think this championship name is:Mid-West IMCA(National Spdwys) Circuit


Emory Collins did not compete in any IMCA races in 1941 - the table you show is the final ranking of National Speedways, Inc. (NSI), a breakaway group from Racing Corp. of America (RCA), led by former Sloan aide Albert "Al" Sweeney (7 Dec 1906 - 21 May 1984) and Gaylord White (c.1907 - 15 Mar 1954), the son of the head of the South Dakota State Fair. Those races were sanctoned by the CSRA.

At some point in late 1940, Collins had a disagreement with John Sloan and vowed to never race again under his management - he never did. The nature of the rift is now lost to time, but it seems that Collins, who was very close to John's father Alex, was miffed at the younger Sloan's favouritism of Gus Schrader, who was the "golden boy" of RCA. Collins found allies in Sweeney and White, and NSI was founded. In December, the trio placed a bombshell by announcing to break away from IMCA and race under CSRA sanction. NSI had signed about 100 contracts with fair boards and track operators all over the Midwest, leaving RCA and IMCA with a very truncated schedule of events. In April, CSRA scored another coup by attracting the Hankinson Speedways fair and still dates on the East Coast, another three dozen or so race meetings, which almost collapsed the AAA Eastern Circuit. CSRA was now the biggest autoracing sanctioning body in the US, but it profitted them not. Both NSI and Hankinson had only used them to demonstrate power. After the war, NSI signed with IMCA, and Sam Nunis (the de facto heir of Hankinson Speedways) returned to AAA, with the CSRA left to die within barely more than a decade.

The most lasting consequence of all this ruckus was the end of the Sloan imperium, and RCA. Without Gus Schrader, who died in late 1941 and was about to retire anyway, RCA was no match for NSI, and lost more and more dates. In 1948, Emory Collins signed with another new promotional group, Auto Racing, Inc. (ARI), led by Frank R. Winkley (12 Dec 1907 - 30 Jul 1968), a former motorcycle racer and thrill show operator from Minnesota. That was the end of RCA, and the beginning of competitive racing in IMCA. By and by, both NSI and ARI attracted more and more good drivers and car owners, and the days of "hippodromed" racing faded away. By the end of the fifties, both circuits had about a dozen Offies on their roster, and a number of competitive stock block conversions. Sometimes, a full field of two or three dozen racers would be covered by two seconds in time trials - in the days of Schrader and Collins, that was usually the difference between them and the next best man, with the last of the usually very short fields of ten to fifteen cars about a dozen seconds in arrears - on a halfmile track!! Invariably, though, IMCA races were won or lost on the sprint from the last corner to the wire, and records were broken wherever they went. That didn't change, however the "show" was now much more believable than in the days of Alex and John Sloan. But whereas Fred Horey, Sig Haugdahl, Gus Schrader and Emory Collins could "play" with their opponents in much lesser cars, the new wave of IMCA stars such as Bobby Grim, Pete Folse and Jerry Richert had to push some throttle to keep ahead.

#167 Michael Ferner

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 19:43

Finally found the top ten for the 1932 Eastern AAA Circuit Championship (the "trial year"):

1 Bryan Saulpaugh
2 Billy Winn
3 Bob Sall
4 Malcolm Fox
5 Harris Insinger
6 Ken Fowler
7 Doc MacKenzie
8 Lloyd Broshart
9 Jimmy Patterson
10 Bill Cummings

#168 Michael Ferner

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 20:22

Also, adding to Winchester's list (in red):

Here is the list that I have.

1932 AAA Eastern Big Car Circuit
05/07 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D - Bill Cummings - Louie Schneider Miller #
05/15 - Reading, PA - 40L / D - Fred Frame - Frame Duesenberg # 2
05/22 - Lehighton, PA - 30L / D - - Bill Neapolitan - Bill Drake Winfield # 99
05/22 - Deer Park, NY - 20L / D - Ken Fowler - Miller
05/28 - Langhorne, PA - 25M / D - Al Thiessen - Vance # 6
05/29 - Deer Park, NY - 10L / D - Bert Karnatz - Steve Marks Hisso # 22
05/30 - Brockton, MA – 40L / D - Burt Karnatz - Steve Marks Hisso # 22
05/30 - Flemington, NJ - 20L / D - Johnny Sawyer - Bill Schoof Clemons #
05/30 - HoHokus, NJ – 20L / D
06/05 - Deer Park, NY – 20L / D - Jimmy Patterson - Louis Katz Duesenberg # 32
06/05 - Pottsville, PA -
06/17 - Reading, PA - 40L / D - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
06/19 - Deer Park, NY – 30L / D
06/19 - Lehighton, PA -
06/26 - Salem, NH - 15M / D - Al Gordon - Doug Harrison Miller # 26
07/10 - HoHokus, NJ - 30L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
07/09 - Altamont, NY - 40L / D - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. (= Eddie Sejnost Frontenac) # 36
07/09 - Bloomsburg, PA - 40L / D - Gus Schrader - Schrader Miller # 5
07/17 - Reading, PA - 40L / D - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
07/24 - Plattsburgh, NY - 20L / D - Harris Insinger - Ambler # 7
07/27 - Middletown, NY - 20L / D - see 08/27
07/30 - Harrington, DE - - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
08/06 - Readville, MA - 25M / D - Gene Haustein - Reed & Mulligan Frontenac # 23
08/13 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D - Mauri Rose - Gus Schrader Miller # 5
08/26 - Little Valley, NY - 20L / D* - Malcolm Fox - Miller # 34
08/26 - Lewistown, PA - 20L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
08/27 - Little Valley, NY - 20L / D* - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
08/27 - Lewistown, PA - 20L / D* - Bill Neapolitan - Ben Shaw Spl. # 16
08/27 - Middletown, NY - 20L / D - Jimmy Patterson - Fred Frame Dusenberg # 2
08/28 - Woodbridge, NY - 50L / D - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
09/02 - Rheinbeck, NY - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/03 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60 scratch this - see 09/04
09/03 - Hamburg, NY - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/03 - Ballston Spa, NY - 20L / D - Harris Insinger - Krasek # 41
09/03 - Flemington, NJ - 40L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/03 - Essex Junction, VT -
09/04 - Woodbridge, NJ - - Races Cancelled -
09/05 - Flemington, NJ - 30L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/05 - Richmond, VA - 30L / D - Harold Larzelere - Larzelere Fronty # 2
09/05 - Readville, MA - 50L / D - Mauri Rose - Vance #
09/05 - Pottsville, PA - Races postponed (see 09/09)
09/09 - Pottsville, PA - 20L / D* - Harris Insinger - Krasek # 41
09/10 - Rutland, VT - 20L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/10 - Trenton, NJ - 20L / D* - Harris Insinger - Krasek # 41
09/10 - Dunkirk, NY -20L / D* - Ted Kessler - Kessler # 2
09/11 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
09/16 - Altamont, NY - 20L / D* - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
09/16 - Brockton, MA - - Rained Out -
09/17 - Reading, PA - 20L / D* - - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # 4K
09/17 - Altamont, NY - 15L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/17 - Mineola, L.I. - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/17 - Brockton, MA -20L / D - - Fred Frame - Fred Frame Dusenberg # 2
09/18 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
09/23 - Riverhead, NY - 16L / D* - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/24 - Riverhead, NY - 12L / D* - Fred Frame - Fred Frame Dusenberg # 2
09/24 - Allentown, PA - 50L / D - Billy Winn - Murray Tire Spl. # 36
09/24 - Langhorne, PA - 50M / D - Bill Cummings - Mike Boyle Miller # 10
09/25 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
10/01 - Lehighton, PA - 20L / D - Doc MacKenzie - Louis Katz Duesenberg #32 (presumably)
10/03 - Bloomsburg, PA - 20L / D - Fred Frame - Frame Duesenberg # 2
10/02 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Al Thiessen - Vance # 6
10/08 - Danbury, CT –
10/08 - Richmond, VA - 20L / D - Bryan Saulpaugh - Leo Krasek # K4
10/08 - Hughesville, PA - 20L / D - Bob Sall - Green Engineering # 60
10/09 - Woodbridge, NJ - 50L / D - Joe Russo - Vance #
10/12 - Readville, MA - 50M / D - Lloyd Vieaux - Vieaux Fronty #
10/15 - Concord, NC - 20L / D - Johnny Sawyer -
10/15 - Mineola, NY -
10/22 - Suffolk, VA -20L / D -
10/29 - Spartanburg, SC - 20L / D - Roberti Saulti - Italia Spl.
* Hankinson Big Car Circuit



#169 sramoa

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 18:57

Could it be the continuation of this topic?

#170 Michael Ferner

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 22:10

You want more?  ;)

Well, I think I now have the points system for the pre-war Eastern and Midwestern AAA circuits sussed... still, NOT the Pacific Coast - that one was always different, and I will need a few more hours of therapy before I tackle that once more :| ...;)

Generally, it's 2.4 points per mile for first place, 1.6 for second, 1.2 for third and 0.8 for fourth, with races of ten miles and more paying 0.4 points per mile for fifth, and races of twenty miles and more 0.2 for sixth.

Apart from the odd irregularity*, that should be it, and the system appears to have been in place for the full period of time, i.e. from 1932 to '41. Further tests are still needed, and will be performed, to iron out those irregularities, and I still can't compile tables for any year, but I'm confident of my findings nonetheless. :)


* e.g. it is possible that consolation events only paid half points.


Well, for one thing I'm pretty confident now that I have the scoring method sussed. Basically, I was right already two and a half years ago (gosh, where's the time...), and the breakdown for the individual race distances in miles is:

0.5: 1.2 - 0.8 - 0.6 (top 3 finishers)
1: 2.4 - 1.6 - 1.2
1.5: 3.6 - 2.4 - 1.8
2: 5 - 3 - 2
2.5: 6 - 4 - 3
3: 7 - 5 - 4
3.5: 8 - 6 - 4
4: 10 - 6 - 5
5: 12 - 8 - 6 - 4 (top 4)
6: 14 - 10 - 7 - 5
7: 17 - 11 - 8 - 6
7.5: 18 - 12 - 9 - 6
8: 19 - 13 - 10 - 6
9: 22 - 14 - 11 - 7
10: 24 - 16 - 12 - 8 - 4 (top 5)
12: 29 - 19 - 14 - 10 - 5
12.5: 30 - 20 - 15 - 10 - 5
15: 36 - 24 - 18 - 12 - 6
20: 48 - 32 - 24 - 16 - 8 - 4 (top 6)
25: 60 - 40 - 30 - 20 - 10 - 5
30: 72 - 48 - 36 - 24 - 12 - 6
35: 84 - 56 - 42 - 28 - 14 - 7
40: 96 - 64 - 48 - 32 - 16 - 8
45: 108 - 72 - 54 - 36 - 18 - 9
50: 120 - 80 - 60 - 40 - 20 - 10 - 5 (top 7)
60: 144 - 96 - 72 - 48 - 24 - 12 - 6
75 and over: 180 - 120 - 90 - 60 - 30 - 15 - 8
100 (before 1936): 240 - 160 - 120 - 80 - 40 - 20 - 10 - 5 (top 8)

Consies did, indeed, pay only half the above points for any given distance. The formula is...

=IF(DIS<2,IF(POS<4,DIS*4.8/(POS+1),0),IF(POS<4,ROUND(DIS*4.8/(POS+1),0),IF(OR(AND(DIS<5,POS=4),AND(DIS<10,POS=5),AND(DIS<20,POS=6),AND(DIS<50,POS=7),AND(DIS<100,POS=8),POS>8),0,ROUND(DIS*0.8/2^(POS-4),0))))

... where DIS is race distance in miles, and POS finishing position.

:)

#171 sramoa

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 04:47

I have these infos what missing this topic:

1933 Mid-West AAA Sprint Circuit:

1.Chet Gardner 456 pts
2.Sam Hoffman 432 pts
3.Sam palmer 413 pts
4.Ira Hall 363 pts
5.Wilbur Shaw 360 pts
6.Mauri Rose 350 pts
7.Johnny Sawyer 334 pts
8.Clay Corbitt 306 pts
9.Bill Cummings 184 pts
10.Frank Brisko 161 pts

1937 Eastern Circuit Ratings(Date unknown me)

1.Frank Beeder 741 pts
2.Bob Sall 740 pts
3.Frank Bailey 736 pts
4.Jack Moon 472.5 pts
5.Tony Willman 460 pts
6.Ben Shaw 409 pts
7.John Duncan 383.5 pts
8.Walt Brown 353 pts
9.Tom Hinnershitz 335.5 pts
10.Billy Winn 286 pts

1938 Eastern AAA Circuit

1.Duke Nalon 484 pts
2.Tommy Hinnershitz 380pts
3.Ted Horn 368 pts
4.Jack Moon 368 pts
5.Henry Guerand 332 pts
6.Tony Willman 304 pts
7.Bill Holland 250 pts
8.Frank Bailey 248 pts
9.Bob Sall 248 pts
10.Charlie Breslin 191 pts

Edited by sramoa, 13 June 2012 - 04:53.


#172 sramoa

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 17:01

171. Monk Tadlock
real name unknown, brother to Eldridge McFaden Tadlock (ca. 1909-41) and John Tadlock (1907-85?), son to John W. Tadlock, hometown Norfolk (VA), raced from 1933 to 1940 minimum, need help!!!


Real name was:Roy Moncure "Monk" Tadlock who birth in Norfolk City,VA, Apr. 26. 1912 and died in Feb. 1.1993.Chesapeake,VA,my first record for his career in 1931 Virginia Fairground event.

I think I have a not good quality photo for him.

Edited by sramoa, 23 June 2012 - 17:11.


#173 Michael Ferner

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:52

1937 Eastern Circuit Ratings(Date unknown me)

1.Frank Beeder 741 pts
2.Bob Sall 740 pts
3.Frank Bailey 736 pts
4.Jack Moon 472.5 pts
5.Tony Willman 460 pts
6.Ben Shaw 409 pts
7.John Duncan 383.5 pts
8.Walt Brown 353 pts
9.Tom Hinnershitz 335.5 pts
10.Billy Winn 286 pts


Looks like the final standings. Thanks, I didn't have them before. I read about the points chase having been close, but five marks between first and third - my, that must've been darn exciting! That's about the difference between first and second in a lousy heat race!! Perhaps poetic justice for Beeder, after having been pipped by two points for the Southern title the year before, courtesy of Mr. Sall.

Interesting that all three of them, Beeder, Sall and Bailey, didn't have much of a National Championship career despite winning the prestigious Eastern title. Sall, with four starts and 47 Indy 500 laps leading the way, with Bailey managing one single lap at Syracuse and Beeder a few as a relief driver in the Vanderbilt Cup. Add to that the non-existant Indy careers of fellow Eastern Champions Johnny Hannon, Joe Sostilio and Bill Randall, and there develops a pattern. Even Tommy Hinnershitz completed ZERO laps at Indy AFTER winning the first of his seven championships! And Bill Holland was within months of the big 4-Oh when he FINALLY got that first Indy ride...

Come to think of it, other drivers who led the Eastern Championship point standings at one point or another and failed to show at Indy make a pretty long list, with some outstanding talent amongst it: Ben Shaw, Vern Orenduff, Mark Light, Vic Nauman, Hank Rogers, Tommy Mattson, Jimmy Gibbons, Wally Campbell, Charlie Musselman, Van Johnson, Elmer George... add that up to ZERO Indy 500 laps for this illustrious group, if I'm not mistaken!! Makes you think...

All that talk, about "grass root" racers not getting a chance at Indy any longer - that's hardly a new phenomenon! It's been there, all through the thirties, forties and fifties already!!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 25 June 2012 - 10:01.


#174 sramoa

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:32

A list could be interesting.A very distinguished drivers was a forest who never showed nothing in Indy 500.For example:The big Tommy Hinnershitz,Gus Schrader or Wally Stokes....
Was found on the other hand so when by way of me never unheard drivers bought a part - at least on the trainings.I remembered Loral Tansy,Lariviere in 33 or more drivers in 30s,40s years suddenly so...

#175 sramoa

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 17:28

I looking for info for the Western Racing Association and the Midwest Dirt Track Racing Association...I think the first found in 1937 and the last was in 1938...And about Californian question:Where was champion in 1937 George Robson(I think a big car serie,but I am not sure)?

#176 Michael Ferner

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 15:22

I'm not really on safe ground for this, but I think the WRA was founded in 1941, but it was essentially a follow-up of the Car Owners and Drivers Association which had been around for a few years, probably late 1936. If you've found info on George Robson winning a points championship in 1937, that would've been CODA, methinks. Alas, I'm not sure they ran a points championship at all, but there was an (almost) annual race at Southern Ascot that was called the "Pacific Coast Championship". In 1937, it was won by George's brother, Hal, though. For the record, the 1938 race (run on January 1, 1939) was won by Tex Petersen, and the "real" 1939 race by Bud Rose in September.

For the MDTRA, most of my info comes from secondary sources, so it may not be reliable: the MDTRA was probably founded late 1937, and I have the following champions: Charles Callahan (1938), Chick Smith (1939), Mike Salay (1940), Harold Shaw (1941), Cliff Griffith (1946 & '47), Wayne Padgett (1948) and Gene Hartley? (1949).

#177 Michael Ferner

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 16:19

I have, however, recently found a lot of info about the Western Auto Racing Association, which ran the "Pacific Northwest Championship", mostly in Oregon and Washington. It was, apparently, originally a promotional group for AAA races in the Northwest (c. 1923), but in late 1926 the name was used (perhaps "recycled"?) for an independent sanctioning body. Champions were George "Swede" Smyth/"Smith" (1927? & '29), Guy Deulin (1928), Howard Wills (1930), Mario Bianchi (1931 & '32), Art "Shorty" Scovell (1933), Eugene "Woody" Woodford (1934), Jimmie Wilburn (1935 & '37), Frank Wearne (1936), Adolph Dans (1938), Erling "Chick" Barbo (1939?) etc. During the late thirties, Midget racing became enormously popular in the area, and Big Car races were few and far between. In fact, there's evidence that already in 1932, some of the WARA races catered for "midget racing cars", and at least one article mentioned that designation!

One peculiar "thing" about the Northwest is that racing drivers apparently delighted in "changing" their first names, which makes research so much more fun... :rolleyes: ... especially if the usual typos in family names are added to the menu!! One particular guy, who I believe was actually called Armond Millian, was basically NEVER spelled the same way from one article to the next... I believe I have about 28 versions of his name on record! :lol: Others, like Elwin Snyder for example, used different first names almost on an annual basis: he was mostly E. C. Snyder in the early years (though sometimes given as F. S., E. D., W. E., or whatever), then became "Kid" Snyder in 1929, "Breeze" Snyder in '30, "Bob" Snyder in '31 and "Dutch" Snyder in '32! Apart from that, he also appeared in reports as Elvin, Edwin, Vic or "Speed" Snyder, probably due to sloppy journalism. Then there are Bob Strong, whose first name was actually Clark, Jimmy Nelson who was actually called Charles (or vice versa), and so on, and so on...

I also found the scoring method for a few of the years: in 1934, it was one point per lap for 1st, half a point for second, one third for third and so on, for the top five finishers in the main event and qualifying, for the top 4 in the consy and for the top 3 in the trophy dash and heats. Interesting formula, but a nightmare to add up the scores, as one can imagine! Why they didn't simply multiply all scores with 60 I'll never understand, especially since the very next year, they came up with: 360-330-300-270-240-210 for top 6 in main event, 120-110-100 for top 3 in 1st heat, 90-80-70 in 2nd, 60-50-40 in 3rd, and 30-20-10 in 4th heat and trophy dash (all regardless of race distance), then used the same formula in 1936, but all points divided by ten! Again, very interesting concept!

Swede Smith was, apparently, runner-up in 1932, Art Hines and Mario Bianchi followed Scovell in '33, who was probably second the following year, though it was possibly Mel Kenealy. In any case, Kenealy lost out to Wilburn in '35 (6610 to 6780 points), and the top ten for 1936 were:

1 Frank Wearne 589
2 Jimmie Wilburn 491
3 Johnny McDowell 466
4 Woody Woodford 337
5 Bruce Denslow 320
6 Jimmie Wilkeson 313
7 Bayliss Levrett 279
8 Mel Kenealy 272
9 Swede Lindskog 239
10 Duke Dinsmore 191

One can see how the closing of Ascot Speedway influenced the standings, with all but one position "cleaned up" by the visitors from the sunny south! Strangely enough, the "Californian Invasion" stopped even more abruptly than it had started, and by late 1937 the Northwesterners were amongst themselves again, with drivers like Scovell, Lindskog, Dans, Les Anderson and Tommy Legge moving to the fore. Alas, I have no more hard championship info, and just a few race results as Big Car racing slowly faded away in the area...

Edited by Michael Ferner, 03 July 2012 - 23:47.


#178 sramoa

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 17:01

With a word my part clear it MDTRA championship.This certain from 1937 championship correspondent result a friend of mine sent it to me.The name of the championship:1937 Pacific Coast Big Car(Geo. Robson winner scored 279 pts,2nd was Tex Peterson(257) and forty-five others...)
This certain WRA that in 1941 founded,the same one was this what Agajanian did in the 40 years?
I have many reports from Northwestern championships(WARA).My one of the favourite driver was Earl Brunk(BroncBronc and many other)-he was Montana's Champion! :eek:

#179 Michael Ferner

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 23:41

Yes, Agajanian's the link - he was also involved with CODA.

And yes, Earl Brunk was from Great Falls, Montana. Given that this state has fewer inhabitants than the sixth floor of the Empire State Building, it was probably no grea deal to be a State Champion...


... with due apologies to any Montana residents reading this!! :eek:

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#180 GILMORE

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:29

Michael, I'm curious as to how you came up with Chick Barbo winning the Big Car title in 1939. I'm not disputing it, I just never found anything on the '39 title.

Seems Langford Speedway still had Big Car races. But, like you said, the Portland - Seattle scene was more into the Midgets.... and if Big Cars were involved, they were Midget - Big Car races. Stock car racing looks to have been very popular too, more popular than the Big Cars.

#181 sramoa

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 12:47

Is this maybe from direction certain CODA to know something about for the championship yet?(tracks,champions,any)Was it the continuation of this championship for WRA?Who was the WRA champion in 1941?

#182 Michael Ferner

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 17:22

Michael, I'm curious as to how you came up with Chick Barbo winning the Big Car title in 1939. I'm not disputing it, I just never found anything on the '39 title.

Seems Langford Speedway still had Big Car races. But, like you said, the Portland - Seattle scene was more into the Midgets.... and if Big Cars were involved, they were Midget - Big Car races. Stock car racing looks to have been very popular too, more popular than the Big Cars.


You noticed the question mark, did you? I seem to recall that that bit of info came either from secondary sources, or perhaps from an unreliable contemporary source. These things are hard to research, anyway, since newspapers got easily confused about championships and years. I have next to nothing about 1939, just one race and that was won by a "carpetbagger" (Wally Schock). Barbo did compete, but he did not finish amongst the top three in the main. Perhaps he wasn't champion, I really don't know, but it's the best guess I can come up with atm.

You're completely right about Big Cars taking a backseat, not only to Midgets but also to "stock cars" (which, in reality, appear to have been modifieds, more or less).

Richard, I believe Kenny Palmer was 1941 WRA champion, but I have no reliable info.

#183 sramoa

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 18:40

...
162. Al Herman
hometown Allentown (PA), sometimes Emmaus, Wescoesville, Bethlehem or Center Valley (all PA), raced from 1951 to 1960 minimum, born 1927, died 1960-06-18 at West Haven Speedway in Connecticut

161. Buster Warke
real name Granville W. Warke, hometown Allentown (PA), sometimes Walnutport, Center Valley (both PA), Trenton, Paterson (both NJ), Tulsa (OK) or Denver (CO), raced from 1935 to 1956 minimum, born 1914-11-10, died 2008-02-20


Is its continuing possibly for this story? :love:

#184 GILMORE

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 20:04

You noticed the question mark, did you? I seem to recall that that bit of info came either from secondary sources, or perhaps from an unreliable contemporary source. These things are hard to research, anyway, since newspapers got easily confused about championships and years. I have next to nothing about 1939, just one race and that was won by a "carpetbagger" (Wally Schock). Barbo did compete, but he did not finish amongst the top three in the main. Perhaps he wasn't champion, I really don't know, but it's the best guess I can come up with atm.


Ahhh... yes, I noticed the "?" in there. I was thinking, rather hoping, you had some info I missed. :)

I believe I have the race Barbo won in my records, and I may have a couple more for '39 that may have been held at Portland or Aurora Speedway, maybe I am mistaken. I'll check when I get home.

Edited by GILMORE, 05 July 2012 - 20:06.


#185 bpratt

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 04:37

Hi guys,
The December 21, 1939 National Auto Racing News has a Northwest 1939 Racing Activities column by Ike the Timer (Ike Tolstead) that states "big car racing is definitely finished in the Northwest. There were too few meets to award any standings and promotors (sic) took a loss on what few were run."

The June 15, 1939 issue has Wally Schock winning at Seattle's 1/2 mile Aurora Speedway on May 30th. Rain delayed from May 28th and an earlier Portland race rained out.

The July 20, 1939 issue notes that Schock won in the big cars at both Aurora and Portland Speedways in Urban Stair's DO. No dates given.

While there were no news items about Victoria's Langford Speedway in NARN I do have results for fourteen big car races there. Schock got two, Swede Lindskog got six, Jimmy Seim got three and Digger Caldwell, Wes Moore and Lew McMurtry each got one.

And Chick Barbo finished third in midget points behind Randolph Odne and Swede Lindskog.

#186 GILMORE

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:46

Hi guys,
The December 21, 1939 National Auto Racing News has a Northwest 1939 Racing Activities column by Ike the Timer (Ike Tolstead) that states "big car racing is definitely finished in the Northwest. There were too few meets to award any standings and promotors (sic) took a loss on what few were run."

The June 15, 1939 issue has Wally Schock winning at Seattle's 1/2 mile Aurora Speedway on May 30th. Rain delayed from May 28th and an earlier Portland race rained out.

The July 20, 1939 issue notes that Schock won in the big cars at both Aurora and Portland Speedways in Urban Stair's DO. No dates given.

While there were no news items about Victoria's Langford Speedway in NARN I do have results for fourteen big car races there. Schock got two, Swede Lindskog got six, Jimmy Seim got three and Digger Caldwell, Wes Moore and Lew McMurtry each got one.

And Chick Barbo finished third in midget points behind Randolph Odne and Swede Lindskog.


Nice!.... thanks for sharing the info. The Langford results I have differ as I do not have Digger Caldwell, Wes Moore or Lew McMurtry winning main events. Perhaps these are the dash winners you posted...??? ;)

Here's what I have for the 1939 season...

5/6 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
5/21 - PORTLAND - RAINED OUT
5/28 - AURORA - RAINED OUT
5/30 - AURORA - WALLY SCHOCK
6/3 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
6/4 - PORTLAND - RAINED OUT
6/10 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
6/11 - PORTLAND - WALLY SCHOCK
6/17 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
6/24 - LANGFORD - CHICK BARBO
7/4? - PORTLAND (BIG CARS -VS- MIDGETS)
  • RONNIE ODNE (MIDGET)
  • CHICK BARBO (MIDGET)
  • RAY CHASE (BIG CAR)
7/8 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
7/15 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
7/22 - LANGFORD - BERT SUTTON
7/29 - GRESHAM - ???
8/5 - LANGFORD - WALLY SCHOCK
8/12 - LANGFORD - WALLY SCHOCK
8/19 - LANGFORD - JIM SEIM
8/25 - LANGFORD - WALLY SCHOCK
9/2 - LANGFORD - JIM SEIM
9/16 - LANGFORD - JIM SEIM
9/23 - LANGFORD - RACE CANCELLED
9/30 - LANGFORD - CLAUDE WALLING

Edited by GILMORE, 06 July 2012 - 16:03.


#187 bpratt

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:40

Ack, you're right. Those were the helmet dash results. I can't even read my own stats.

Here's a link:

http://www.befastpas...edway-1939.html

#188 Michael Ferner

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:49

The June 11 race at Portland Speedway was sanctioned by ARA, the Northern California group, which makes Schock's appearance there more plausible. But then again, Wally did have a somewhat frightening itinerary that year: from So. Cal. to the North (Ascot and Oakland), Oregon and into Canada, then up to Colorado in July and back to Canada in August, Arizona the same month in between two Langford meetings (!), and back south (Oakland and Ascot again) - and that's only Big Cars, heaven knows how many Midget and Stock Car races he fit in between, and where!

Btw, Jimmy Seim, is that spelling confirmed? I have him mostly as Simes, often Symes and sometimes Sines, but never Seim! :confused:

I can't add much about Langford as 95 % of my info comes from Brian's blog! :D :blush: :cool:

#189 GILMORE

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 17:48

Btw, Jimmy Seim, is that spelling confirmed? I have him mostly as Simes, often Symes and sometimes Sines, but never Seim! :confused:


No idea. Seems the only way it hasn't been spelled is Simms.

I can't add much about Langford as 95 % of my info comes from Brian's blog! :D :blush: :cool:


Ditto.... other than a few mentions/articles here and there. Thanks, Brian!


#190 GILMORE

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 18:00

BTW, if somebody has an archive account with "The Oregonian" or with Genealogy.com, and wants to/is willing to search for the Gresham race.... below is the 7/29/1939 article I found mentioning it. I do not have the race results, if the race ever happened.

Posted Image

#191 bpratt

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 22:47

I can't remember why I've stuck with "Seim". I think I have a picture of him with that spelling under it. Or a letter from Pike Green telling me that. Pike (really, his name is Harry) gave me a lot of history.

I see from my Victoria newspaper clippings they have it as "Symes". I dunno.

#192 GILMORE

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:08

I'm likely missing some races from the '38 season, below is what I have. Can anyone help me fill the gaps?

4/17 - UNION AVENUE - RAINED OUT
5/1 - UNION AVENUE - ADOLPH DANS
5/7 - LANGFORD - JACK SPAULDING
5/8 - UNION AVENUE - LES ANDERSON
5/21 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
5/29 - UNION AVENUE - LES ANDERSON
6/1 - UNION AVENUE - RAINED OUT
6/4 - LANGFORD - BERT BLOMGREN
6/5 - SEATTLE SPEED BOWL - ???
6/18 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
7/1 - LANGFORD - BERT SUTTON
7/10 - AURORA - SWEDE LINDSKOG
7/16? - LANGFORD - BERT BLOMGREN
7/20 - EVERGREEN SPEEDWAY - ERNIE SPAULDING
7/24 - AURORA - ??? (ADOLPH DANS?)
7/27 - EVERGREEN - SWEDE LINDSKOG
7/31 - AURORA - ERNIE SPAULDING
8/3 - EVERGREEN - LEW MCMURTRY
8/6 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
8/10 - EVERGREEN - BERT BLOMGREN
8/13 - LANGFORD - JACK SPAULDING
8/14 - UNION AVENUE/PORTLAND - ADOLPH DANS
8/20 - LANGFORD - WOODY WOODFORD
8/31 - EVERGREEN - TOMMY LEGGE
9/3 - LANGFORD - SWEDE LINDSKOG
9/10 - LANGFORD - BUD GREEN
9/11 - EVERGREEN - ??? (POSTPONED?)
9/18 - UNION AVENUE/PORTLAND - RAINED OUT - *AFTER HEAT RACES WERE RUN
9/25 - EVERGREEN - ??? (POSTPONED?)
10/2 - UNION AVENUE/PORTLAND - ADOLPH DANS - *RESUMPTION OF 9/18 RACE

Edited by GILMORE, 07 July 2012 - 06:08.


#193 Michael Ferner

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:39

That's pretty much what I have, too. In fact, you have one rain-out and one winner more than I had, so muchas gracias for the info! :up: When you add all those Langford races, that makes up a pretty decent season.

Interestingly, I had the 8/31 race listed as Aurora Speedway, but on reflection Evergreen makes more sense. I went back to my original source, and it clearly said "Aurora", but I also found a preview of a race at Evergreen for the same date. Makes you wonder about the accuracy of the newspaper report when the scribe didn't even know where he was! :lol:

#194 Michael Ferner

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:45

Is its continuing possibly for this story? :love:


Hmm. To be honest, I'm afraid I don't think so. I started that a long time ago, and have moved on somewhat. Perhaps in some other form, but not today and not tomorrow.

#195 Michael Ferner

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:55

BTW, if somebody has an archive account with "The Oregonian" or with Genealogy.com, and wants to/is willing to search for the Gresham race.... below is the 7/29/1939 article I found mentioning it. I do not have the race results, if the race ever happened.

Posted Image


That's interesting. The article mentions Gresham Fairgrounds, which was, I believe, a different track from Gresham Speedway (aka Base Road, Twelve-Mile or just plain Speed Bowl). Never found another race at that venue.

Again, there's a peculiarity with the Northwesterners here, in that tracks were known by a number of different names, which were freely interchanged. I think Allan Brown got caught out a couple times by that, too.

#196 GILMORE

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:52

Interestingly, I had the 8/31 race listed as Aurora Speedway, but on reflection Evergreen makes more sense. I went back to my original source, and it clearly said "Aurora", but I also found a preview of a race at Evergreen for the same date. Makes you wonder about the accuracy of the newspaper report when the scribe didn't even know where he was! :lol:


Yes, I was confused by that too. I figured it was Evergreen, and not Aurora, since Aurora had the stock car race just a few days prior, on 8/28. Who knows, could be Aurora...??? Unfortunately, for myself, all I have are the newspaper articles for source.


#197 GILMORE

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 19:19

Again, likely not complete, here's what I have for '37...

4/11 - GRESHAM - RAIN OUT
4/18 - GRESHAM - RAIN OUT *AFTER TIME TRIALS WERE RUN
4/25 - GRESHAM - MEL KENEALY
5/9 - GRESHAM - RAIN OUT
5/16 - GRESHAM - RAIN OUT
5/23 - PORTLAND - SWEDE LINDSKOG
5/30 - GRESHAM - JIMMY WILBURN
5/31 - GRESHAM - JIMMY WILBURN
6/14 - PORTLAND - ???
6/20 - SEATTLE - CANCELLED
6/27 - GRESHAM - JIMMY WILBURN
7/3 - PORTLAND - ???
7/4 - YAKIMA - ???
7/5 - SALEM - LES ANDERSON
7/11 - SEATTLE - JIMMY WILBURN
7/18 - PORTLAND - RAIN OUT
7/25 - GRESHAM - TONY WEST?
8/1 - SEATTLE - SWEDE LINDSKOG
8/7 - LANGFORD - ELMER SUTTERMAN
8/8 - PORTLAND - SWEDE LINDSKOG
8/15 - SEATTLE - JIMMY WILBURN
8/21 - LANGFORD - RAIN OUT
8/28 - LANGFORD - JACK MAHONEY
9/4 - LANGFORD - JACK MAHONEY
9/18 - LANGFORD - BUD GREEN
9/26 - GRESHAM - ERNIE SPAULDING

#198 Michael Ferner

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 20:42

I was quite looking forward to you posting this - what a mess, innit? :D

Basically, I have nothing to add, except for the June Portland Speedway race which I have for the 13th, and I believe it took place with Jimmy Wilburn winning. However, the situation is far from clear, and the few point standings I found for the year are actually more confusing than helpful! :(

Otherwise, I believe it's Elmar "Yam" Setterman, and Stan Mahoney. Also, I couldn't find anything on the last Gresham race, and since we seem to have used the same sources, where did you find the Spaulding info? The only info I found about him in September was a 100-lap win in the last Midget race of the season at Jantzen Beach on the 16th - I just hope there's no confusion!

#199 GILMORE

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:48

Otherwise, I believe it's Elmar "Yam" Setterman, and Stan Mahoney. Also, I couldn't find anything on the last Gresham race, and since we seem to have used the same sources, where did you find the Spaulding info?


Oops... yes, it's Setterman. :blush:

Thanks for the other info. :up:

As for the last Gresham race, below is the article from the 9/27 Oregonian...

Posted Image




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#200 GILMORE

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:04

'36 Season

4/12 - GRESHAM - FRANK WEARNE
4/19 - GRESHAM - FRANK WEARNE
4/26? - YAKIMA - ???
5/3 - YAKIMA - FRANK WEARNE
5/10? - YAKIMA - ???
5/10 - AURORA - RESCHEDULED
5/17 - GRESHAM - FRANK WEARNE
5/24 - AURORA - FRANK WEARNE
5/30 - GRESHAM - POSTPONED DUE TO SLIPPERY TRACK CONDITIONS
5/31 - GRESHAM - (25 LAP) DAVE DIPPOLITO - (15 LAP) JOHNNY MCDOWELL
6/6 - LANGFORD - DAVE DIPPOLITO
6/7 - AURORA - RAIN OUT
6/14 - GRESHAM - RAIN OUT
6/21 - PORTLAND - JIMMY WILBURN
6/28 - AURORA - JIMMY WILKESON
7/1 - LANGFORD - DAVE DIPPOLITO
7/4 - SALEM - LES ANDERSON
7/4 - AURORA - RAIN OUT
7/12 - GRESHAM - DUKE DINSMORE
7/19 - PORTLAND - FRANK WEARNE
7/26 - PORTLAND - JIMMY WILBURN
7/26 - AURORA - CANCELLED/LACK OF CARS
7/29 - EVERGREEN - LES ANDERSON
8/2 - PORTLAND - JOHNNY MCDOWELL
8/16 - GRESHAM - FRANK WEARNE
8/30 - GRESHAM - FRANK WEARNE
9/14 - YAKIMA - JIMMY WILBURN
9/20? - YAKIMA - ???
9/27 - GRESHAM - BUD ROSE