36 replies to this topic

[Gerard Gamand]

In 1960, the french magazine "l'Automobile" created a movement called "Mouvement Course 500-3".
The subject was to promoted a 3 wheels 500cc formula...

Here a pic of one of the very first attempt : It was the 3 wheels, built by Mr Soldé of Prunay-sous-Ablis. He start from a BMW R51 with a front end of a 4cv Renault...

Who remember of that ??

Roulez jeunesse !!

[Stephen W]

What a superb idea and so cheap! Bet it was a bit of a bugger to get round corners!

[Gerard Gamand]

This is an other trying : Roger Sceaux, with a Simca 5 front and an BSA Goldstar engine of 1952, with 32 bhp behind !
I like the gentleman behind the wheel !!

[Gerard Gamand]

There was artistic drawing for stimulated the builders

[Gerard Gamand]

look at the bumper, it seems they anticipated really hard fighting !

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
look at the bumper, it seems they anticipated really hard fighting !

Looks more like dodgems!

;)

[Gerard Gamand]

If you want to buil one, I have find some sketch...

[Gerard Gamand]

[Gerard Gamand]

It's a model called "Violet" cyclecar

[Gerard Gamand]

The sketchs was made by Ing. Violet, who was a specialist of cyclecar before the 2WW. He particpated at many races of cyclecar between 1920 and 1932...but we are now in 1960.

And during this time Colin Chapman built the Lotus 18 formula junior !!

I'm alway fascinating by the interest of little things in France during the 50 and 60 period.

The little DB, the little Gordini, the little cyclecar, and so on.

[fines]

Marcel Violet? By god, he must've been old by then...

Don't you love the kick starter protruding from the bodywork in the sketch! Now this is really LOW budget, but I suppose it's also LOW GRIP! Come to think of it, traction is probably also low with all that weight way out in front...

[Bonde]

Gerard, you're an absolute goldmine! Another intersting thread opened by you!

I think the '500-3' concept is a case of taking an ideology one step too far.

According to Francois Jolly's delightful little Editions du Palmier book, "L'épopée francaise des "Racers 500"", the '500-3 movement' was instigated by the magazine 'L'Automobile' in about 1959 in an attempt to recreate the spirit of the original 500cc F3 movement. Of course the 500-3 cars lacked the fourth wheel of even most primitive cyclecars of pre-WWI and the 1920s, and handling was poor compared to a genuine 500cc F3; there's even a picture of Terigi overturning in Casablanca to prove the point.

Given that most 500cc F3 cars ran without a differential, I really doubt the omission of the fourth wheel would have saved the builder a significant amount of money - especially when one coniders the time and money needed to repair oft overturned 500-3 cars, even if the driver wasn't injured. Using a live rear axle (aka the then-emerging go-carts), perhaps with the whole engine/axle combo being articulated like on a Tecno F4, or simple swing axles, would not have cost much more than using the hind quarter of a donor motorcycle - which doesn't even seem to be the case in the Violet.

If one really wanted to keep the cost of 500cc F3 down, it could have been done by strict homologation of donor engines, for instance by banning such as double-knocker Nortons and favouring cheaper, perhaps even larger than 500cc engines, madatory use of donor running gear parts, control tyres, pump fuel etc. - but even that would probably eventually have evolved like Formula Junior did. Such is the price of competition!

Much as Morgans, FMSs and other trikes may have to commend them, I still find that even the cheapest racing car should have 4 wheels...

[Gerard Gamand]

I like very much this one

[fines]

Reminds me somehow of Donald Duck!

[macoran]

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand

Looking at this, I'd say why don't we recall the F500-3 again and build some modern day versions !!!

[Gerard Gamand]

And now, the body for the do it yourself "Violet" 500-3 cyclecar

[Gerard Gamand]

If you had worked well, that is what you could had after some weeks
(you bought the sketch for 25 NF)

It's the first "Violet" cyclecar. The thing was presented at le "Salon de l'Auto 1960" in october, on the magazine "L'Automobile" stand.

The succes of this presentation was considerable and tens of projects went to see the day for 1961...

You can read FFM on the side. It's because the 500-3 movement depend of the Fédération Française de Motocyclettes. (motorbikes)

The colour was of course a bright french blue !

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by fines
Reminds me somehow of Donald Duck!

More like Toilet Duck!

[Gerard Gamand]

Stephen,

Perhaps, you prefer this one ??

It's built by Pierre Flahaut, of Casablanca, with a BMW engine. The "works" drive was won by Mr Terigi, see at the wheel, during the Maroco race of Ifrane, were the team manager declared to the local press that he had a "very good impression"...

[Gerard Gamand]

In the same time, Colin Chapman revealed the new Lotus 20 Formula Junior...

It seems so unreal, that it was necessary to me, to verify the concordance of date !!!

[ian senior]

It's a pity this formula didn't find its way to Britain - I can imagine Lawrie Bond coming up with some wierd and wonderful device ....

[David Beard]

Originally posted by ian senior
It's a pity this formula didn't find its way to Britain - I can imagine Lawrie Bond coming up with some wierd and wonderful device ....

I don't think so, Ian. Bond's ideas were never going to align with the requirement for a single driven rear wheel: he was bonkers about fwd....
Or were you thinking his microcar could be raced backwards?

[Bonde]

David,

I'm sure Mr. Bond would have built a FWD drive car with a single rear wheel...

Gerard,

Terigi's car is the one shown capsizing at Casablanca in Jolly's book! The "good impression" statement must have been prior to the mishap!

[D-Type]

Originally posted by ian senior
It's a pity this formula didn't find its way to Britain - I can imagine Lawrie Bond coming up with some wierd and wonderful device ....

And what might Paul Emery have come up with?

[Bonde]

...FWD, single rear wheel...

And both Bond and Emery would probably have gone for bungee suspension...

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Bonde
David,

I'm sure Mr. Bond would have built a FWD drive car with a single rear wheel...

Of course Anders, but I assumed that wasn't allowed!

[ex Rhodie racer]

I attended a motorcycle race meeting in the town of Hengelo in Holland in about 1996. I think it was their 50th anniversary year or something, or maybe their 75th. Anyway, there was a parade during the lunch break and an ex motorcycle racer by the name of Dick Albers ( I think that was his name) gave a demo in an incredible 3 wheel vehicle, similar in concept to the ones on here. It could have had two wheels side by side at the back, making it a 4 wheeler in fact, but I can´t remember. Anyway it had a 1300 4 cyclinder Suzuki Hayabusa motor in the back, weighed nothing, and was awesomely fast. It wasn´t a home built special, but rather, a beautifully built, road legal contraption with extremely attractive lines.
Is there anyone on here who can shed any more light on this 3 wheeler, or maybe someone has a pic? I believe it was in production in Holland at the time, although it could have folded by now.
BTW. It was a 2 seater

[Hieronymus]

Gerard

I have an image of Depailler circa 1960 in one of these cyclecars, but it is on DVD and I can't post it here. Would really like to know what machine it is.

[Bonde]

David,

You're most likely correct in assuming that the rules required a single driven rear wheel in order to favour the 'half-a-bike' drivetrain. Messrs Bond and Emery would most likely have come up with something higly individual regardless.

Someone, somewhere (Gerard?) must have access to the original 'L'Automobile' articles describing the 500-3 regulations, and I wouldn't be surprised if Henri Julien has something in his collection, too.


Gerard,

Any chance of one of our French members enticing Henri Julien to join the fray at TNF?

[ian senior]

Originally posted by David Beard


Or were you thinking his microcar could be raced backwards?

I didn't think of that, but what an intriguing idea... if he'd simply reversed the driving position in a Bond Minicar, we could have had a racing car with rear wheel steering.

Like Anders, I was thinking of FWD (assuming it was allowed), knowing that Bond would barely consider anything else. In fact, if you take Bond's first racing car, the "Doodlebug" and lop off a rear wheel, you're almost there.

[ensign14]

This is mentalist (in a good way). Did anyone think of entering with a Morgan from the 1920s?

Are there any results available?

[Gerard Gamand]

Do you want to take the wheel ?

[bradbury west]

Extending the idea forwards in time, Lomax cars produced a similar concept as a road-going kit car some years ago, using a Citroen 2cv front end complete, with the option of simgle rear wheel or a conventional 2cv rear axle . Very low weight gave quite brisk performace I believe.
Roger Lund.

[Paul Rochdale]

This is a very attractive Lomax 223 which recently appeared on ebay and failed to reach the guide price of £3,500. It is fitted with a BMW R100RS engine mated to a Citroen 2CV gearbox and therefore FWD.

[Paul Rochdale]

Another sale on ebay, this one was an attractive (to me anyway) three-wheeler based on a Reliant Kitten with the back end of a Kawasaki motorcycle and so RWD. It has a Riley radiator grill, Morris 8 wheels and a hand made alloy bodyshell. It went for under £500.

[Gerard Gamand]

Anders,

Sorry I've not read your post.

For Henri Julien, I don't know...he is not of internet generation...I try something

For the full regulation I'm searching

[Bonde]

Thanks anyway, Gerard



















(I wonder when you'll open a thread about BBM cars...)